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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:47 AM   #281
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Is it too much to ask that you read as far as my second sentence?
Is it too much to ask you to accept that my post was meant to be an agreement with your post?
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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:52 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Is it too much to ask you to accept that my post was meant to be an agreement with your post?
Body of work, and all that. Fair enough, I withdraw my comment.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 12:14 PM   #283
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The whitetail deer in southern Michigan are much bigger than the whitetail deer in the upper peninsula of Michigan. This is not an indicator of subspecies.

What is an indicator, is what the DNA difference is.

I would think that since Zanzibar was connected to mainland Africa in the last 25000 years, that their DNA is, unsurprisingly, the same.

This is the study that combined the 27 subspecies into 8 subspecies.

https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/...hapala1996.pdf
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Old 22nd January 2019, 12:28 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
The whitetail deer in southern Michigan are much bigger than the whitetail deer in the upper peninsula of Michigan. This is not an indicator of subspecies.......
Do they have different markings? Do some biologists recognise them as a separate sub-species? No? Then what sort of example is that? I'm not claiming the leopard as a sub species. I am simply noting that some scientists do.

As usual with the nitpickers here, you've missed the point extravagantly. The claim I was responding to was that lazarus taxon were generally small, and whilst this is true, there are large examples too. One of which was the leopard I linked to. I could have chosen a couple of deer from Vietnam and Laos, or the coelocanth. There are some good sized marsupials, and a flightless bird that stands knee height. Picking one of them could have saved you a whole load of time trawling through Wiki looking for a comma out of place in my post.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 12:51 PM   #285
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I'm just saying that I don't know anyone who recognizes the Zanzibar Leopard as it's own subspecies anymore. (You do)

IUCN, Panthera.org don't for example.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 12:55 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I'm just saying........
You missed the part where I said that this pointless off-topic nit-picking is irrelevant? That I could have chosen from a number of other examples? That your counter-example (white-tailed deer) was a ridiculous argument? You're just saying........
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Old 22nd January 2019, 01:43 PM   #287
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It's not nit-picking, How can you cite an example from an Animal Planet show(Finding Bigfoot) , of a video of a Leopard, that even if it were confirmed, was simply from an island population of African Leopard?

That has nothing to do with the extinct Thylacine being found. They were hunted to extinction by humans. They've been gone in captivity for 80+ years. The African Leopard isn't even extinct. What's more, is people (witch doctors) brought mainland leopards to Zanzibar after the local populations were wiped out.

Size differences among populations of single species does not equate to needing a subspecies category, that is why I brought up the Deer size in Michigan as an example.
It is simply based on type and quantity of food, and weather. Longer optimal feeding season and Corn in lower Michigan, Acorns and short optimal feeding season in Northern Michigan.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 01:50 PM   #288
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I feel like every week that passes without an actual search of the area and reports of pug marks, scat, etc. is another nail in the coffin of this thylacine being anything more than hypothetical.

MikeG still hasn't resolved the conundrum of why he needs a hypothetical breeding population at some hypothetical distance and location from the hypothetical sighting, just to explain why the sighting might be real.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:01 PM   #289
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FWIW, Lake Michigan is not a genetic barrier between the deer of the upper peninsula and those in the lower peninsula. There is an unbroken population of deer surrounding that lake and gene transmission is not stopped. If there were two species or a subspecies in there then it would be like the "ring species" theory.

Anyway this post is not in disagreement with anyone here.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:04 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
It's not nit-picking,........
It's completely and utterly missing the point, however you categorise it.

Quote:
How can you cite an example from an Animal Planet show(Finding Bigfoot)........
I've never seen anything from Animal Planet ever in my entire life. I've never seen Finding Bigfoot. You just carry on with you pre-conceived notions.

Quote:
..........of a video of a Leopard, that even if it were confirmed, was simply from an island population of African Leopard?.........
In the view of some. The first biologist/ zoologist from the Natural History Museum, London, who looked at this defined it as a sub species. You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with him.

Here's my view. It isn't worth communicating with someone who point blank refuses to take the point, and who prattles on about irrelevancies. I don't need to tell you again that there are numerous large creatures which have been declared extinct only to be discovered still in existence decades later. If you don't like my example, tough ****. There are lots of others. Your persistent neglect of this point whilst spending hours refuting one of the many examples says everything that anyone needs to know about your debating style.
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Last edited by MikeG; 22nd January 2019 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 03:27 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I feel like every week that passes without an actual search of the area and reports of pug marks, scat, etc. is another nail in the coffin of this thylacine being anything more than hypothetical.

MikeG still hasn't resolved the conundrum of why he needs a hypothetical breeding population at some hypothetical distance and location from the hypothetical sighting, just to explain why the sighting might be real.

The original report (see Post #45) was pretty much a Drop the Dead Donkey article that was included on a slow news day in a regional newspaper on 7 January in the height of the holiday season. All the other reports I have read on this appear to have been picked up from the Geelong Ablettiser's original article as a basis for their articles with no new information coming forth since then.


There has been no follow up, because nobody thought it was important enough or "real" enough if you like, to think that it was worth following up, including, apparently all the amateur cryptozoologists who search for such things including the Thylacine Research Unit (I could not find a report of this sighting on their webpage). And probably including the guy that shot the photo.


Sorry for being on topic and not arguing about finding a new or rediscovered species everywhere on the planet except the Bellarine Peninsula. I could mention the hundred new Butterfly species found in the mountains of Papua & New Guinea in the past 25 years if people think that this is on topic as well.



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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:29 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Because they're probably extinct. On the other hand, I dispute your claim that people are looking darn hard for them. It's mostly left to small groups of amateurs and enthusiasts. The last official search that I know of was after the sighting in the 80's by the Tasmanian parks researcher.
Yeah. Those amateurs and enthusiasts are both extremely amateur and extremely enthusiastic.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:39 AM   #293
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUtF642eegs

This guy does Cliff Barackman proud.

Fake excitement over a video of an African Leopard that could or could not have been filmed in Zanzibar.
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Old 26th January 2019, 10:59 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
[
This guy does Cliff Barackman proud.
Uh, yeah.

I mean, it'd be cool if the local island leopard has persisted, but evidently two were observed as recently as 2003, so we'd only be talking about a 15-year gap. I've got unanswered emails older than that.

Complicating the story is the whole witches-keep-leopards thing and the likelihood that leopards from the continent would be so easy to take to the island.

None of which has anything to do with an odd-looking photo of some kind of canid-like thing from Australia.
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