The Electric Comet Theory /SAFIRE Part V

[Sol88]

A novel thermophysical model is required because,

Quote:

7 THERMO-PHYSICAL MODELS FAIL

along with

Quote:

5 NO DISTRIBUTED WATER SOURCES

So On the activity of comets: understanding the gas and dust emission from comet 67/Churyumov-Gerasimenko's south-pole region during perihelion B. Gundlach assertion

Quote:

ice content of the ejected dust chunks.

maybe misguided Marco Fulle has been confused.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Dude, dont give up you are getting close I feel.



Sorta does, does it not?

The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

but

This is a bit of a stretch even for mainstream...


How comets work: nucleus erosion versus dehydration Marco Fulle,1⋆ J. Blum,2 A. Rotundi,3,4 B. Gundlach,2 C. G¨uttler,5 and V. Zakharov


Get ya hand off it, the contortions needed to try and fit the new data is painful to watch.

You cant fit enough ice into 67P to to account for all the dust and porosity!

as attested by Patzold and the RSI experiment.

Comets are essentially ROCKY objects. This introduces a big change to everything.

Anywhoo sucks being locked up but waht do you do?

(Read the new papers)

On the activity of comets: understanding the gas and dust
emission from comet 67/Churyumov-Gerasimenko's
south-pole region during perihelion



Of sublmation???



Novel all right but if it saves the dirtysnowball then...

Jonesdave116?

A complete irrelevance. None of it helps in your claims that the comet is rock, blasted off a planet. That is a big fail. None of it helps with the total lack of any electric discharges, or EDM (lol). None of it explains where you are impossibly combining solar wind H to get water. Therefore, your woo has failed. And your woo is the subject of this thread. Deal with it, or go away. You don't know enough about real science to make a discussion worthwhile. Stick to your impossible woo.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

A novel thermophysical model is required because,

along with



So On the activity of comets: understanding the gas and dust emission from comet 67/Churyumov-Gerasimenko's south-pole region during perihelion B. Gundlach assertion

maybe misguided Marco Fulle has been confused.

Maybe you don't have a clue about the science. And cannot realise that none of this helps with your failed woo. A failure that we knew about 20 years before it was proposed. So, why not sort out the complete failure of said woo, and then get an education in some relevant science in order to discuss the real science of comets?

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Dude, dont give up you are getting close I feel.

Close to finishing my magentic holes paper? Not quite yet, my co-authors have some good questions and ideas that I need to work on.

Originally Posted by Sol88

Sorta does, does it not?

No, sorta doesn't. You need the "rock" to create your water, and carbon(di)oxide which is "machined" from the surface (in some magical way when the solar wind cavity has already been created). Thereby, it does not matter if the surface is made of rock or meteoritic material. The surface of the comet is and will always be too small and the flux of solar wind ions too little to invoke your electric comet water production idea.

As I know you will not come up with a viable model for this production that can be tested, apart from some handwaving arguments in the way of "there are protons and there is a surface and on the moon there is a layer of water with like half a liter of water per football field, etc etc and there is chemistry, so electric comet" there is absolutely no purpose in considering your ramblings.

You can claim anything you want, sort of like creationists do in discussions, switching quickly from topic to topic to make the confusion as big as possible (like in this case, we were discussion the fact that there is not enough "rock" not solar wind to produce your water, let alone carbon(di)oxide for which you have no idea at all) and then you start discussing possible land slides on the surface of 67P. So, you see, it is pointless as you cannot even stick to the topic that needs be discussed, which in this thread is the electric comet idea.

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Sol88

...

Sol88 emphasizes his insanity yet again.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 13 Mar 2020).

Sol88 persists with showing everyone how insane he is with pathetic delusions about mainstream ices and comets papers irrelevant to his personal demented dogma or his cult's demented dogma.

No astronomer will be demented as Sol88 and believe comets are made of actual rock blasted from planets, etc.

The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko is the fact that a mixture of ices and dust under a tiny amount of gravity falls down slopes "greased" by the ices!

Quote:

The H/L variability is an indicator of the different volatile content located in the top few meters of the cometary crust

How comets work: nucleus erosion versus dehydration Marco Fulle,1⋆ J. Blum,2 A. Rotundi,3,4 B. Gundlach,2 C. G¨uttler,5 and V. Zakharov
This is the physical fact that ices on comets outgas causing both erosion of the nucleus and the comet to lose ices ("dehydration").

Astronomers such as Patzold have no problem with 67P being at least 17% ices and the measured porosity.

A totally insane question from Sol88 about On the activity of comets: understanding the gas and dust emission from comet 67/Churyumov-Gerasimenko's south-pole region during perihelion
Sublimation is a physical fact for ices on comets.

Sol88 goes utterly insane about the fact that science progresses and that scientific papers contain new science. Thus "We developed a novel thermophysical model to simulate the dust ejection from comet
67/Churyumov-Gerasimenko's south-pole region at perihelion. "

Next post: Sol88 repeats his complete insanity about the fact that science progresses and that scientific papers contain new science.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

A complete irrelevance. None of it helps in your claims that the comet is rock, blasted off a planet. That is a big fail. None of it helps with the total lack of any electric discharges, or EDM (lol). None of it explains where you are impossibly combining solar wind H to get water. Therefore, your woo has failed. And your woo is the subject of this thread. Deal with it, or go away. You don't know enough about real science to make a discussion worthwhile. Stick to your impossible woo.

Quote:

The outer planetesimal disk began disturbing the system's gravitational balance. The resonances were disrupted after the gas phase, and the system entered a period of chaos in which the giant planets interacted violently and ejected matter into space.

Solar system acquired current configuration not long after its formation

and...

Then comets were formed... in both the mainstream solar system formation interpretation and the crazy claim that electrical forces played a dominate role by the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE. This may have been recorded in antiquity and preserved in myth and legend from cultures world wide.

also

Why the hang up on None of it explains where you are impossibly combining solar wind H to get water.

Plenty of H⁺ and H^-, electric fields, dense electron environment.

Nor does all of it need to be from the solar wind. The energy required to do that "work" is ultimately the comets motion thru the solar wind, much like...

Quote:

Likewise, the plasma brake eliminates the orbital debris problem by providing low-cost reentry at the end of a satellite mission. Both exploit the plasma Coulomb drag effect.

Scientists develop inexpensive method to produce E-sail tethers

Anyway, happy lock down from Oz!

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Solar system acquired current configuration not long after its formation

and...

Then comets were formed... in both the mainstream solar system formation interpretation and the crazy claim that electrical forces played a dominate role by the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE. This may have been recorded in antiquity and preserved in myth and legend from cultures world wide.

also

Why the hang up on None of it explains where you are impossibly combining solar wind H to get water.

Plenty of H⁺ and H^-, electric fields, dense electron environment.

Nor does all of it need to be from the solar wind. The energy required to do that "work" is ultimately the comets motion thru the solar wind, much like...



Scientists develop inexpensive method to produce E-sail tethers

Anyway, happy lock down from Oz!

Total gibberish, none of which has anything to do with the complete failure of your woo. You cannot explain the water. Not scientifically, anyway. You cannot explain the total lack of signature for the impossible electric woo. And you cannot explain the complete lack of rock. And all of this was known 20 years before the invention of your unscientific woo.
So, after 15 years, still batting zero. Impressive.

[jonesdave116]

Quote:

This may have been recorded in antiquity and preserved in myth and legend from cultures world wide.

Nope, there were no cultures around at ~ 4.6 Ga. Not in this solar system, anyway.

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Sol88

...

Sol88 emphasizes his insanity yet again.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 13 Mar 2020).

jonesdave116 points out Sol88's persistent insanity of ranting about science irrelevant to Sol88's demented dogma. Sol88 confoims his insanity by ranting and lying about science irrelevant to Sol88's demented dogma !

Sol88 's insane citation of Solar system acquired current configuration not long after its formation which about planets.
Sol88's insane "Then comets were formed" lie. Comets formed at the same time as planets. They existed during that "period of chaos in which the giant planets interacted violently and ejected matter into space."

Sol8' mindlessly parrots his cult's demented "electric" delusions and dogma.

Sol88 emphasizes his insanity with his cult's demented "myths in antiquity = electric stuff in the solar system" delusion. With an insane implication that we were around 4.6 billion years ago !

Sol88 emphasizes his insanity by persisting with his demented delusion that rock + solar wind H = the observed amount of water on comets. That was debunked years ago in this thread by a calculation that the amount of water produced is tiny compared to the amount of water detected.

Sol88 emphasizes his insanity by citing Scientists develop inexpensive method to produce E-sail tethers - comets are not metal wires !

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Nope, there were no cultures around at ~ 4.6 Ga. Not in this solar system, anyway.

You SURE?

Sounds very presumptuous, bit like comets being ICY!

How's the NOVEL thermodynamic model tickle your dirtysnowball?

OMG

You have heard of plasma chemistry

Quote:

Reactions. As a rule, plasmochemical reactions occur under nonequilibrium conditions, for example, when (1) the subsystems of a single reacting multicomponent system have different translational energies, (2) the rotational, vibrational, and electronic energies of the system differ greatly from one another, and (3) the energy levels of the system do not conform to the Boltz-mann distribution (seeKINETIC THEORY OF GASES). Nonequilibrium conditions may be induced by various physical forces, such as electromagnetic fields, rapid changes in pressure, and supersonic effusion.

No mechanism?

Any condition within the diamagnetic cavity that satisfy any of the above conditions?

Considering Organic molecules make up half of Comet 67P.

Some sort of chemistry going on with these Electric fields (from charge separation) and energetic electrons (from impact ionisation)...

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Sol88

...

Sol88 emphasizes his insanity by thinking that we were around 4.6 billion years ago ! But Sol88 is actually lying as he has done for many years about part of his demented cult's dogma. One of the many delusions of his deluded cult prophets is that myths in recent times are reliable sources of science. David Talbott

Quote:

David N. Talbott (1942–) is a self-taught comparative mythologist and long-time promoter of neo-Velikovskian nonsense. Inspired by Immanuel Velikovsky (1895–1979), Talbott uses ancient mythological tales as evidence (his so-called proof) that Earth was at one time in orbit around Saturn (within recent human memory, no less), and a litany of other equally ridiculous claims.[1]

Talbott, along with fellow shyster Wallace Thornhill, is directly involved with the day-to-day operation (the business/money side) of the Electric Universe (a cult that masquerades as science[2]); peddling incredulous books and DVDs, and holding exorbitantly-priced workshops and conferences — in short, fleecing the gullible.[3][4] Talbott also runs the Thunderbolts Forum website; a recruitment center for new pockets to be picked.[5]

Yet more insane ranting from Sol88 about science. Plasma chemistry is irrelevant to his insanity about comets being actual rock blasted from planets, etc. and the solar wind. The diamagnetic cavity from its very name is where there are no magnetic fields to be involved in plasma chemistry . Sol88 also shows his insanity since he knows that comet coma block the solar wind from reaching the nucleus.

ETA: Yet another bit of insanity from Sol88 - there is no "novel thermodynamic model". There is a scientific paper containing a novel thermophysical model that Sol88 has ranted about.
On the activity of comets: understanding the gas and dust emission from comet 67/Churyumov–Gerasimenko’s south-pole region during perihelion

Quote:

When comets approach the Sun, their surface is heated and the volatile species start to sublimate. Due to the increasing gas pressure, dust is ejected off the surface, which can be observed as cometary coma, dust tail, and trail. However, the underlying physical processes are not fully understood. Using state-of-the-art results for the transport of heat and gas as well as of the mechanical properties of cometary matter, we intend to describe the activity pattern of comets when they approach the Sun. We developed a novel thermophysical model to simulate the dust ejection from comet 67/Churyumov–Gerasimenko’s south-pole region at perihelion. Based on the input parameters, this model computes the sub-surface temperature profile, the pressure build-up, and the redistribution of volatiles inside the cometary sub-surface region and provides mass-loss rates of dust and gas as well as typical sizes and ice content of the ejected dust chunks. Our thermophysical model allows for continuous gas and dust ejection from the Southern hemisphere of comet 67/Churyumov–Gerasimenko at perihelion. We find that the model output is in general agreement with the observed Rosetta data. The sublimation of CO2 ice drives the ejection of very large (⁠≳10cm) chunks, which contain 10 percent to 90 percent of the initial water–ice content. In contrast, the outgassing of H2O ice causes the lift-off of small clusters of dust aggregates, which contain no ice.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

You SURE?

Sounds very presumptuous, bit like comets being ICY!

How's the NOVEL thermodynamic model tickle your dirtysnowball?

OMG

You have heard of plasma chemistry



No mechanism?

Any condition within the diamagnetic cavity that satisfy any of the above conditions?

Considering Organic molecules make up half of Comet 67P.

Some sort of chemistry going on with in the Electric fields and energetic electrons...

Correct. No mechanism. Zilch. All you need is ice and heat. And we know that both exist at comets. No need for unscientific, impossible woo.

[jonesdave116]

Quote:

Any condition within the diamagnetic cavity that satisfy any of the above conditions?

Nope. 'Plasma' in the DC is 1 million parts neutrals, to 1 part ions/ electrons. And they come from the aforementioned neutrals. So, you need ice to create the neutrals, a tiny amount of which get ionised, and then go on to do.......................stuff to...................something to produce more water. Which has already been created by the ice. Yep, sounds possible to me. Not.

[jonesdave116]

And, of course, we always come back to why this woo isn't happening at asteroids. Which are also known to have organics/ hydrocarbons on them;

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=5787

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Nope. 'Plasma' in the DC is 1 million parts neutrals, to 1 part ions/ electrons. And they come from the aforementioned neutrals. So, you need ice to create the neutrals, a tiny amount of which get ionised, and then go on to do.......................stuff to...................something to produce more water. Which has already been created by the ice. Yep, sounds possible to me. Not.

Great just need ice on the surface.

because the dirtysnowball

Quote:

7 THERMO-PHYSICAL MODELS FAIL

so say Marco Fulle‹ N. Altobelli, B. Buratti, M. Choukroun, M. Fulchignoni, E. Gr¨un, M. G. G. T. Taylor‹ and P. Weissman all of us...

becasue even to the experts, after all these years B. Gundlach, M. Fulle, J. Blum are still stumped

Quote:

However, the underlying physical processes are not fully understood.

but never fear when fairedust is here...

Quote:

We developed a novel thermophysical model to simulate the dust ejection from comet 67/Churyumov-Gerasimenko's south-pole region at perihelion.

You may not be aware yet sport!

Your model FAILED!

Suck it up buttercup!

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

And, of course, we always come back to why this woo isn't happening at asteroids. Which are also known to have organics/ hydrocarbons on them;

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=5787

What did you say the electric field strength is at these asteroids again?

Did'nt even take plasma instruments

How very embarrassing for the "people in the know"

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

And, of course, we always come back to why this woo isn't happening at asteroids. Which are also known to have organics/ hydrocarbons on them;

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=5787

from the PR and assuming by asteroid you mean meteorites?

Quote:

The meteorites are called carbonaceous chondrites and are among the most primitive samples of matter in the solar system.

Quote:

The band observations made with the infrared telescope matched the same band seen in laboratory sample of known carbonaceous chondrite meteorite. They explained that other asteroids similar to Elektra show bound water in their spectra at 3 micrometers, finding consistent with the bound water in the meteorites.

oh, ok...

Quote:

The presence of the hydrocarbons on the asteroid does not alone prove that all of the primitive carbonaceous chondrites originated from that source, because comets, including Comet Halley, have the same spectral signature.

and now 67P.

but and it's one of your foundation pillars of you tired argument jd116,

Quote:

thus making 67P very porous and less hydrated than primitive CI chondrites

Quote:

Water

The CI and CM chondrites are the "water rich" meteorites,[54][55][56] CMs having 3-14 wt% water.[57] Water is contained in tochilinite,[58][59] cronstedtite,[60] and others.[61][62][59]

This water, not comets,[63][64] was the likely origin of Earth's oceans via isotope tracing (primarily deuterium, but also others).[65][56] .

Ouch!!!

your model failed as CI and CM chondrites are MORE hydrated than primitive comets!!

Nice conundrum you've created for yourselves!




At the ELECTRIC COMET nothings changed. Still rocks discharging in the solar wind! More so than asteroids!

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Correct. No mechanism. Zilch. All you need is ice and heat. And we know that both exist at comets. No need for unscientific, impossible woo.

Quote:

Simultaneous irradiation with energetic electrons and the laser,
however, led to the observable degradation of organics (at 5 K and
150 K) and phyllosilicates (at 150 K) as evident from the decline
of absorptions of C–H stretches at 3.38 μm (2,955 cm−1), 3.42 μm
(2,922 cm−1) and 3.51 μm (2,848 cm−1), and the Si–O stretch at
9.90 μm (1,010 cm−1) (Fig. 1). Simultaneously, strong absorptions
emerged at 2.96 μm (3,380 cm−1), 4.49 μm (2,225 cm−1), 6.11 μm
(1,637 cm−1) and 4.27 μm (2,341 cm−1), which can be assigned to
the O–H stretch of water (ν1/ν3(H2O)), the silicon–hydrogen stretch
(ν(Si−H)), the bending of water (ν2(H2O)), and the asymmetric
stretch of carbon dioxide (ν3(CO2)), respectively7. These effects are
especially remarkable in the 150 K irradiation experiment. In particular,
the ratio of the two new peaks at 2.96 and 6.11 μm agrees
well with those of solid water-ice12.

Happen there Regenerative water sources on surfaces of airless bodies

further

Quote:

These samples were irradiated: (1) by energetic electrons to simulate the cascade of secondary electrons generated by
charged particles—primarily protons—from the solar wind and
galactic cosmic rays while penetrating solids10;

Now if only 67P had energetic electrons...

Quote:

These findings are consistent
with the results of the infrared spectroscopic analysis, which show
that only a simultaneous space weathering of the Murchison samples
with proxies for charged particle and micrometeorite impact
bombardment lead to the degradation of organics and concurrent
formation of carbon dioxide and water.

We attempt to explain the underlying degradation and formation
mechanisms. The interaction of energetic electrons with silicates like
phyllosilicates in the Murchison meteorite generates suprathermal
oxygen atoms, which in turn efficiently oxidize any organics within
the sample. Since the oxygen atoms have excess kinetic energy, the
oxidation operates even at temperatures as low as 5 K and leads to
the formation of water and carbon dioxide, which occurs through
the reaction of the oxygen atoms with the hydrogen and carbon atoms of the organics.

No mechanism!!! what a numpty!

please jonesy get with the program.

you might as well join in tusenfem...

Remeber comets have LESS water then asteroids...

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by Sol88

but never fear when fairedust is here...

You may not be aware yet sport!

OH my, is sol88 now proposing that sublimation is driving dust from the surface?

Originally Posted by B Gundlach, M Fulle, J Blum

The sublimation of CO2 ice drives the ejection of very large (⁠≳10cm⁠) chunks, which contain 10 per cent to 90 per cent of the initial water–ice content. In contrast, the outgassing of H2O ice causes the lift-off of small clusters of dust aggregates, which contain no ice.

OH THE HORROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND ICE TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Sol88

...

Sol88 emphasizes his decades of insanity yet again.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 13 Mar 2020).

jonesdave116 stated the simple fact that comets have ices (67P is at least 17% ices), they will sublimate and thus neutral gases will be released into the coma. The DC will have a million neutral gas atoms for each ionized gas atom.. Sol88 rants about the surface ices that we have detected on comets !
Yet more insane ranting from Sol88 about mainstream ices and dust comet science.

Demented lies shows how insane Sol88 is.
"We developed a novel thermophysical model to simulate the dust ejection from comet 67/Churyumov-Gerasimenko's south-pole region at perihelion." does not say that the other models failed. It says they have a new model.
If those other thermophysical models of dust ejection failed then that says nothing about the physical fact that comets are made of ices and dust that is in the mainstream model.
Sol88 emphasize how insane his demented dogma about comets is - they only have ignorant and deluded fantasies, no models at all !

Next post: Sol88 emphasizes his decades of insanity yet again with demented questions. Sol88 is the one with insane delusions about electric fields. Sol88 is the one insanely lying about his cult's demented dogma that requires 100,00's of asteroids to be real comets!
Electric comets still do not exist! !

Next post: Sol88 emphasizes his decades of insanity yet again with insane lies about science.
Asteroids Organic Compounds is that there is a class of asteroids in the outer main belt with organic matter, some of which have fallen to Earth as meteorites. The authors used the cooled- grating array spectrometer at the NASA Infrared Telescope Facility at Mauna Kea, Hawaii to detect organics on asteroid 130 Elektra. They also looked at the Murchison meteorite which might have some of the same organics but they cannot say for certain.

Sol88 persists in insane lies about mainstream ices and dust comet science
Unexpected and significant findings in comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko: an interdisciplinary view

Quote:

ESA's Rosetta Mission has followed Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko from 3.6 au inbound to 3.6 au outbound. Many results are largely unexpected, as compared to previous models based on in situ and ground-based observations of Jupiter-family comets. The main topics discussed in this review are (1) the importance of the large concavities characterizing the 67P nucleus, that, (2) coupled to the nucleus obliquity, make seasons an unexpectedly important source of many phenomena observed in this and probably in most comets; (3) the mostly uniform distribution of ices over the nucleus surface; (4) the high dust-to-water mass ratio, which implies that much of the nucleus mass is in the form of minerals partly coming from the inner proto-solar nebula, thus making 67P very porous and less hydrated than primitive CI chondrites. 67P nucleus may have never experienced any collision at speeds larger than 1 m s−1.

Sol88 goes totally insane. The mainstream model is that comets and primitive CI chondrites came from the same source and thus will have started with similar hydration. Sane people know that water ices sublimate as comets near the Sun and will expect CI chondrites to be less hydrated than comets. Sol88 goes even more inane and quotes the fact that the hydration is different - CI chondrites have water trapped in their minerals. But comets have actual water ice !

Sol88 goes totally insane with his persistent demented lies about his dogma which ignores the solar wind. Sol88 and his cult's actual demented dogma is comets are rocks blasted from planets discharging in a massive solar electric field. Then Sol88 and his cult go totally insane about comets and the Sun!

Next post: Sol88 goes totally insane about science as usual.
Comets are not rocks. Comets are not "airless" - they have a coma that stops the solar wind from reaching their surface. We have only detected energetic electrons at 67P in the coma of 67P.
An insane "comets have LESS water then asteroids" lie. As expected, comets have less water than a specific class of asteroid called primitive CI chondrites - that Sol88 has been ranting about .

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by tusenfem

OH my, is sol88 now proposing that sublimation is driving dust from the surface?



OH THE HORROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND ICE TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO, what I’m saying is the paper could be sold in Australia atm as we’ve had a run on toilet paper lately. Fk nose why!

Ice??

That would also make it a distrusted source for your water. That was a bust too.

Meanwhile at the eclectic comet, a rock covered not in ice it seems but organics...

Ice

[Sol88]

Jonesdave116, is still hung up on there is NO MECHANISM.

time and again shown, time and again wheels out solar wind doesn’t reach the nucleus when it’s not needed via the very mechanism he is ignorant too.

Poor form, sport.

[Sol88]

Quote:

An insane "comets have LESS water then asteroids" lie. As expected, comets have less water than a specific class of asteroid called primitive CI chondrites - that Sol88 has been ranting about .

Thank you. RC, rant is now over.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

from the PR and assuming by asteroid you mean meteorites?



oh, ok...

and now 67P.

but and it's one of your foundation pillars of you tired argument jd116,



Ouch!!!

your model failed as CI and CM chondrites are MORE hydrated than primitive comets!!

Nice conundrum you've created for yourselves!




At the ELECTRIC COMET nothings changed. Still rocks discharging in the solar wind! More so than asteroids!

Idiocy. No science, no mechanisms, no evidence. Where are your discharges? How are you making water, and CO₂, and CO, and NH₃, etc, etc? How many times do we have to ask? ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. SCIENTIFICALLY. OR SHUT UP.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Jonesdave116, is still hung up on there is NO MECHANISM.

time and again shown, time and again wheels out solar wind doesn’t reach the nucleus when it’s not needed via the very mechanism he is ignorant too.

Poor form, sport.

Dumb statement. YOU HAVE NO MECHANISM. WHAT IS IT? ANSWER THE QUESTION. OR SHUT UP.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

NO, what I’m saying is the paper could be sold in Australia atm as we’ve had a run on toilet paper lately. Fk nose why!

Ice??

That would also make it a distrusted source for your water. That was a bust too.

Meanwhile at the eclectic comet, a rock covered not in ice it seems but organics...

Ice

No rock. Stop lying, you pathetic individual. Take your quasi-religious, unscientific crap elsewhere. It has nothing to do with science. Get a life.

[jonesdave116]

Quote:

Now if only 67P had energetic electrons...

Show us the maths for the quantities observed. You can't. No mechanism. And there are no energetic electrons. Learn to read. The electrons in the DC, for the umpteenth time, are cold. Do you know what that means? Hint: they are not energetic. Go get an education, and stop polluting this place with your idiotic, impossible woo. It is tiresome. It was shown to be wrong 20 years before the idiots who invented it ever wrote it down.

[tusenfem]

Originally Posted by Sol88

NO, what I’m saying is the paper could be sold in Australia atm as we’ve had a run on toilet paper lately. Fk nose why!

Yeah just DonaldTrump yourself out of it! You did not even read the whole abstrace, whooohahahahahahaha

sad

[jonesdave116]

Thornhill and Talbott (henceforth T & T) claimed that there was no water at comets, and that what scientists were detecting was OH.

Which is a lie, or complete ignorance. We knew since 20 years before they wrote that that it was water (among other things).

T & T claimed that they could get this OH from solar wind H⁺ and combine it with O^-.

Not happening. Not at those velocities, and those densities. Added to which, we knew, since 20 years before they wrote that crap, that the solar wind wasn't getting anywhere near the nucleus. And that water was detected where the solar wind wasn't. Heading the other way. Furthermore, the non-existent O^- was supposed to be coming from scientifically impossible EDM (lol). We knew, 20 years before they wrote that, that there was zero signature of any electric woo within the diamagnetic cavity.

So far, I have completely debunked the EC woo without recourse to any papers later than the late 80s. Long before the EC woo existed.

To further debunk it (not that we need to), ice was detected around Hale-Bopp in 1997. A mere 9 years before this woo existed. And T & T claimed that the outgassing at large heliocentric distances couldn't happen in the mainstream model. Despite papers showing that the outgassing was down to CO, which has a sublimation temperature of ~ 30 K. Why didn't they know this? Probably did, but it didn't fit the Velikovskian tale that they were selling to the scientifically illiterate, gullible fools who follow them.

And then we have the lies about Tempel 1. An electrical flash! A confirmed prediction! Errr, nope. Just another lie. The entire impact was observed in x-ray (where Thornhill said this woo would be seen) by Chandra and SWIFT. Zilch. A belated and gradual increase, after impact, due to the expected charge exchange between the solar wind and the outgassing neutrals.
And then there was the lie by omission. The observation of solid ice grains in the ejecta. And not just a few. Thousands of tonnes of it.

A further lie by omission, was the complete failure to report the observations at Hartley 2. Thornhill did a preview piece on his hollowscience blog, but mysteriously failed to follow it up with the actual observations. Of a shed load of ice floating around the comet. And cold, neutral jets of CO₂, entraining water ice grains. Can't imagine why he decided not to cover that.

And all that before we even got to 67P!

Suffice to say that whatever the electric comet is, it is certainly nothing to do with science. It is pure woo, built on lies, ignorance and obfuscation. It might fool the most gullible and scientifically illiterate members of society, but nobody who has any sort of clue about real science.

R.I.P. electric comet woo. Dead before it was born!

[Sol88]

Blah blah blah, jd116’s old news old model...

A basic question for you jd116 and tusenfem, which has more water/ice, comets or asteroids/meteorites?

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Blah blah blah, jd116’s old news old model...

A basic question for you jd116 and tusenfem, which has more water/ice, comets or asteroids/meteorites?

Irrelevant to your failed woo. Remember? There should be no water. No ice. And electric woo. Fail, fail and fail. Why are you still here? To defend people who lied to you?

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Thornhill and Talbott (henceforth T & T) claimed that there was no water at comets, and that what scientists were detecting was OH.

Which is a lie, or complete ignorance. We knew since 20 years before they wrote that that it was water (among other things).

T & T claimed that they could get this OH from solar wind H⁺ and combine it with O^-.

Not happening. Not at those velocities, and those densities. Added to which, we knew, since 20 years before they wrote that crap, that the solar wind wasn't getting anywhere near the nucleus. And that water was detected where the solar wind wasn't. Heading the other way. Furthermore, the non-existent O^- was supposed to be coming from scientifically impossible EDM (lol). We knew, 20 years before they wrote that, that there was zero signature of any electric woo within the diamagnetic cavity.

So far, I have completely debunked the EC woo without recourse to any papers later than the late 80s. Long before the EC woo existed.

To further debunk it (not that we need to), ice was detected around Hale-Bopp in 1997. A mere 9 years before this woo existed. And T & T claimed that the outgassing at large heliocentric distances couldn't happen in the mainstream model. Despite papers showing that the outgassing was down to CO, which has a sublimation temperature of ~ 30 K. Why didn't they know this? Probably did, but it didn't fit the Velikovskian tale that they were selling to the scientifically illiterate, gullible fools who follow them.

And then we have the lies about Tempel 1. An electrical flash! A confirmed prediction! Errr, nope. Just another lie. The entire impact was observed in x-ray (where Thornhill said this woo would be seen) by Chandra and SWIFT. Zilch. A belated and gradual increase, after impact, due to the expected charge exchange between the solar wind and the outgassing neutrals.
And then there was the lie by omission. The observation of solid ice grains in the ejecta. And not just a few. Thousands of tonnes of it.

A further lie by omission, was the complete failure to report the observations at Hartley 2. Thornhill did a preview piece on his hollowscience blog, but mysteriously failed to follow it up with the actual observations. Of a shed load of ice floating around the comet. And cold, neutral jets of CO₂, entraining water ice grains. Can't imagine why he decided not to cover that.

And all that before we even got to 67P!

Suffice to say that whatever the electric comet is, it is certainly nothing to do with science. It is pure woo, built on lies, ignorance and obfuscation. It might fool the most gullible and scientifically illiterate members of society, but nobody who has any sort of clue about real science.

R.I.P. electric comet woo. Dead before it was born!

We knew? You knew comets were mostly ice 20yrs ago too...


Oh, ok real science,

Quote:

4.3 Concluding remarks We have shown that the localized density enhancements reported by Eriksson et al. (2017) are common around comet 67P. Furthermore they coincide with enhancement in magnetic field and ion flux. These characteristics and their distribution in space are at least qualitatively similar to filaments emanating from the diamagnetic cavity in the hybrid simulations by Koenders et al. (2015).

Plasma Density Structures at Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Also, tusenfem can knock himself out trying to define the relationship between the various exobases, diamagnetic cavity, collisionopause’s etc etc

Along with the boundaries created by the magnetic field aligned ambipolar electric field, the hall electric field, polarisation electric field.

May have missed an electric field or two but you get the point.

In light of the above electric fields and the statement

Quote:

4.1 Summary of observations

We have shown RPCdatafor four events, during the months after perihelion. The events show varying radial distance to the nucleus, phase angle and local time. These events all show pulse-like intensifications of plasma density, ion energy and flux, and magnetic field intensity. The enhancement of density and magnetic field is often very strong, up to an order of magnitude and sometimes even more.

Quote:

This study also leaves some unanswered questions.

Among these are: We see enhanced ion fluxes up to several hundred eV as reported by Stenberg Wieser et al. (2017) coinciding with the density and magnetic field pulses. The acceleration mechanism is unclear.

I’d hazard a rough uneducated guess and say the accelerating mechanism would become clear once the electric fields are taking into account.

You know the ELECTRIC COMET.

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Irrelevant to your failed woo. Remember? There should be no water. No ice. And electric woo. Fail, fail and fail. Why are you still here? To defend people who lied to you?

So, you do agree asteroids have more ice/water than comets?

We could have just been having discussions on why asteroids/meteorites are wetter than comets.

Although to be fair the grand pooh bah of cometary science M.A’Hearn had already, some time ago cottoned onto the fact that comets are rocky.

Quote:

although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock,

This rock is reportedly the same as Carbonaceous chondrites Of which CI and CH seem to match a comets.

Do you understand jonesdave116?

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by tusenfem

Yeah just DonaldTrump yourself out of it! You did not even read the whole abstrace, whooohahahahahahaha

sad

Did you count the number of assumption?

Assuming = 6
Assumption = 5

Assuming on assumptions after all this time modeling the dirtysnowball, really?

Thought was just a case of tweaking the dust-to-ice ratio and we're all done.

Dirtysnowball became the Icydirtball thru the clever use of mathamajics!

Quote:

The core of the thermophysical model is the simultaneous treatment of the heat transfer equation (see Appendix A1.3) and the continuity equation for mass conservation

On the activity of comets: understanding the gas and dust emission from comet 67/Churyumov-Gerasimenko's south-pole region during perihelion

Replete after me, we WILL make this sublimation model work and damn the consequences!

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Irrelevant to your failed woo. Remember? There should be no water. No ice. And electric woo. Fail, fail and fail. Why are you still here? To defend people who lied to you?

Was that yes comets with LOTS of ice and water are DRIER that asteroids and meteorites that are ROCKS?

or was that a classic jonesdave116 dummy spit?

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Was that yes comets with LOTS of ice and water are DRIER that asteroids and meteorites that are ROCKS?

or was that a classic jonesdave116 dummy spit?

What are you talking about? Your woo is a complete failure. It was a failure before it was invented. Your high priests lied to you about there being no water and no ice. You failed. Get over it. If you want to start a new thread on real comet science, feel free. This one is about a failed 'model'. Which failed.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

Did you count the number of assumption?

Assuming = 6
Assumption = 5

Assuming on assumptions after all this time modeling the dirtysnowball, really?

Thought was just a case of tweaking the dust-to-ice ratio and we're all done.

Dirtysnowball became the Icydirtball thru the clever use of mathamajics!



On the activity of comets: understanding the gas and dust emission from comet 67/Churyumov-Gerasimenko's south-pole region during perihelion

Replete after me, we WILL make this sublimation model work and damn the consequences!

Sublimation is observed. The gas from the sublimation is observed. And the ice from which the gas sublimates is observed. Understand? And we knew all that before your unscientific garbage was invented. You were lied to. Get over it. They lie all the time. As well as being scientifically illiterate Velikovskians. Your woo, your failure. No rock, no EDM (lol), no discharges. No science. No mechanisms. Fifteen years of defending something that isn't even possible, and was known to fail before it was invented! A fine use of time, I don't think.

[jonesdave116]

Originally Posted by Sol88

So, you do agree asteroids have more ice/water than comets?

We could have just been having discussions on why asteroids/meteorites are wetter than comets.

Although to be fair the grand pooh bah of cometary science M.A’Hearn had already, some time ago cottoned onto the fact that comets are rocky.



This rock is reportedly the same as Carbonaceous chondrites Of which CI and CH seem to match a comets.

Do you understand jonesdave116?

Nope, no rock ever seen at a comet. That is just you following in Thornhill's footsteps, and lying to cover up your total failure.
And the 'water' at asteroids is generally locked up in minerals, and may only be OH. It doesn't sublimate. There are only a handful of Themis 24 type asteroids where actual ice has possibly been detected. And they are classed as main belt comets. Which also put the lie to the idiotic claim that elliptical orbits are required. They are not on them! Of the millions of other asteroids, sod all of them are turning into comets whenever they get warm enough. Including NEOs, and asteroids on cometary orbits. So, your whole woo falls like a pack of cards, due to being scientifically illiterate drivel, dreamed up by clowns who think Earth used to orbit Saturn. I sure as hell wouldn't take people like that seriously. I'd contact the authorities, and see what the chances were of having them committed.

[jonesdave116]

Quote:

Along with the boundaries created by the magnetic field aligned ambipolar electric field, the hall electric field, polarisation electric field.

May have missed an electric field or two but you get the point.

No, we don't get the point. You need outgassing to create those fields. And you cannot explain the outgassing. Fail again.

[jonesdave116]

Quote:

You know the ELECTRIC COMET.

Doesn't exist as a scientifically valid hypothesis. It is on the same level as astrology. Without as many followers. Nothing to do with science.