IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Brexit

Closed Thread
Old 16th January 2020, 09:38 AM   #2441
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,732
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
At least it will be a quick and simple agreement to get in place.

All we'll have to negotiate is how high we have to jump...


...or how many toes we have to touch.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2020, 12:00 PM   #2442
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 102,478
The Independent: Trump threatened UK with 25% car tariffs unless it agreed to accuse Iran of breaking nuclear deal
The Independent: Trump threatened UK with 25% car tariffs unless it agreed to accuse Iran of breaking nuclear deal.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a9286496.html
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2020, 01:15 PM   #2443
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 12,408
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Of course I I don't expect a trade deal between the UK and the EU to be as "good" or as comprehensive as being inside the EU - the EU is determined that cannot be the case lest they see the rapid departure of other EU member countries.
This has nothing to do with it. If the UK would agree to:
- Adopt EU product standards
- Adopt EU trade rules
- No side deals on trade
- A common customs area
A trade deal that is as good as being in the EU is certainly possible. Not agreeing to these would make the new deal a net negative for both sides and there is no way the EU is just going to absorb all the losses resulting losses.

Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
But you have to factor in the cost to the UK of being in the EU - when the net payments by the UK to the EU (the cost of membership) are taken into account, then the existing "free" deal is nowhere near free.
This is like the naïve 20 year old who things living at home isn’t a good deal if they have to pay rent, but has no idea how expensive it is to live the way they are accustomed.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2020, 01:25 PM   #2444
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 12,408
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
and the UK, once freed from the EU, can expect to do at least as well, and probably much better.
What makes you think Trump would even honor a trade deal with the UK? Canada and Mexico are part of a comprehensive free trade deal with the US yet he unilaterally imposed tariffs on Steal and Aluminum imports in order to protect the US Steel industry.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2020, 01:30 PM   #2445
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 102,478
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
What makes you think Trump would even honor a trade deal with the UK? Canada and Mexico are part of a comprehensive free trade deal with the US yet he unilaterally imposed tariffs on Steal and Aluminum imports in order to protect the US Steel industry.
You only have to look above to my previous post to see how Trump is going to deal with the UK. Trump is acting exactly as people warned.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2020, 01:34 PM   #2446
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 12,408
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You only have to look above to my previous post to see how Trump is going to deal with the UK. Trump is acting exactly as people warned.
There are 2 issues.
1) What Trump would demand as part of a deal
2) Whether Trump would even honor the US side of the deal even if UK made the compromises he demanded.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 16th January 2020, 06:11 PM   #2447
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 44,251
Come on people. Trump will be gone at the end of the year.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 01:09 AM   #2448
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 34,426
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Come on people. Trump will be gone at the end of the year.
I'm not so sure, I reckon that he's got a better than even chance of being reelected unless one or more of the following happens:
  • There is a significant economic downturn before the election - though at this stage that cannot happen
  • The Democrats find an exciting and charismatic candidate - have you seen the candidates ?
  • Trump's base abandons him en-masse - ain't gonna to happen ever
  • The GOP grows a spine - ain't gonna happen any time soon
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 01:39 AM   #2449
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm not so sure, I reckon that he's got a better than even chance of being reelected unless one or more of the following happens:


There is a significant economic downturn before the election - though at this stage that cannot happen
Marginally possible, it doesn't even need to be that significant a downturn.

Quote:
The Democrats find an exciting and charismatic candidate - have you seen the candidates ?
Largely impossible, true.

Quote:
The GOP grows a spine - ain't gonna happen any time soon
Won't happen in this late stage, true.

Quote:
Trump's base abandons him en-masse - ain't gonna to happen ever
Herein lies a weakness. Trump has a massively loyal base, but that base is only about 20-25% of the electorate. All the other support he might get at the polls are people voting Republican out of habbit or against the Democrat candidate or some other reason like that. Trumpian base is fanatical and literarily won't abandon Trump is he took a gun and shot up a school. "Dems made him do it, he has my vote against those baby killers" is what they'd say.

That said, the obnoxious nature of his fanatics alienated many other potential supporters. To defeat Trump you don't need his base to abandon him, you primarily need to get people who usually vote Republican to sit the election out or vote for someone else. Most won't vote Democrat but they might vote third party or else leave at least the presidential part of the ballot blank. You don't need all of them either, 10% of such people are plenty and enough for a narrow Electoral College victory. Then of course there are the independents who might favor the challenger and of course the people who usually vote Democrat but sometimes sit the elections out to come out and vote.

Trump's base helps the Democrats in all of those. The deplorable vote is too small to win elections by themselves and they chase away good candidates and the sane electorate, at least some of the time. His base is also his weakness.

Trump has a chance to get reelected because he's an incumbent in good economy and those tend to hold their seats - but no party that faced impeachment of a sitting president managed to hold on to the White House in the next election.

I wouldn't be so quick to grant him another term. If he lives that long, that is. Have you seen him walk lately?

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه

Last edited by McHrozni; 17th January 2020 at 01:40 AM.
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 02:20 AM   #2450
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 34,426
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
That said, the obnoxious nature of his fanatics alienated many other potential supporters. To defeat Trump you don't need his base to abandon him, you primarily need to get people who usually vote Republican to sit the election out or vote for someone else. Most won't vote Democrat but they might vote third party or else leave at least the presidential part of the ballot blank. You don't need all of them either, 10% of such people are plenty and enough for a narrow Electoral College victory. Then of course there are the independents who might favor the challenger and of course the people who usually vote Democrat but sometimes sit the elections out to come out and vote.
You're right, if Trump's base causes other GOP voters to vote Democrat or simply not turn up then that would significantly damage President Trump's chances of reelection.

The thing is that there's been precious little evidence of this. His approval rating seems to be where it was 3 years ago; there was a "blue ripple" in the House elections but no sign of electoral tectonic plates shifting (the GOP increased its grip on the Senate); GOP senators and House representatives - who are likely very sensitive to any changes in the electoral winds - are still steadfastly behind him.

Of course all of this is off topic for a Brexit thread
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 02:50 AM   #2451
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 34,426
Once again the EU is demonstrating how unsporting and utterly foreign they are by preparing for the trade negotiations in advance and publishing their workings:

Quote:
The EU negotiating team is gearing up for talks with the UK about the post-Brexit relationship by holding a series of seminars for diplomats from the 27 member states.

The presentations are being published online. Stuffed with jargon and seriously lacking in inspirational clipart, they provide important clues about how things might play out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51133846

Every year I read the same book "Scott And Amundsen: The Last Place on Earth". The author is a complete Amundsen fanboi and spends a lot of time comparing and contrasting Amundsen's meticulous preparation to Scott's "have a go" approach. I think the results speak for themselves.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 02:55 AM   #2452
Guybrush Threepwood
Trainee Pirate
 
Guybrush Threepwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: An Uaimh
Posts: 3,343
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Once again the EU is demonstrating how unsporting and utterly foreign they are by preparing for the trade negotiations in advance and publishing their workings:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51133846

Every year I read the same book "Scott And Amundsen: The Last Place on Earth". The author is a complete Amundsen fanboi and spends a lot of time comparing and contrasting Amundsen's meticulous preparation to Scott's "have a go" approach. I think the results speak for themselves.
Indeed, Scott is a national hero, and Amundsen was a sneaky Norwegian cheat.
Guybrush Threepwood is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 03:01 AM   #2453
Lothian
should be banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside
Posts: 17,511
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Once again the EU is demonstrating how unsporting and utterly foreign they are by preparing for the trade negotiations in advance and publishing their workings:
Yes but there are 27 of them. It is so much easier for counties if they can share resources and expense........ Oh.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 03:13 AM   #2454
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 34,426
Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
Indeed, Scott is a national hero, and Amundsen was a sneaky Norwegian cheat.
The book I mentioned is vehemently criticised for being a hatchet job on Scott and those same people praise Ranulph Fiennes' book to the rafters. Fiennes' book focuses on how brave and dogged Scott was - but that was never in doubt. He still used the wrong tools and was woefully under-prepared.

It reminds me of the recent Current Events thread about some guy who had to be rescued from the wilds of Alaska when he burned down his shelter, killed his dog and ruined most of his food supply trying to light a fire.

Some in the thread are saying that we fail to understand the survivalist mentality and that all he did was make one tiny mistake and he recovered from that brilliantly. My opinion was that he lacked critical skills, equipment and knowledge and was relying on luck far too much.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 03:26 AM   #2455
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
You're right, if Trump's base causes other GOP voters to vote Democrat or simply not turn up then that would significantly damage President Trump's chances of reelection.

The thing is that there's been precious little evidence of this. His approval rating seems to be where it was 3 years ago; there was a "blue ripple" in the House elections but no sign of electoral tectonic plates shifting (the GOP increased its grip on the Senate); GOP senators and House representatives - who are likely very sensitive to any changes in the electoral winds - are still steadfastly behind him.
Given the nature of the election and the prevalence of gerrymandering the 2018 election was quite a blow to the Republicans. Yes they increased their grip in the Senate - but given the nature of the seats at play in 2018 that was a given. The Republicans also lost a number of state legislatures that will now re-district without Republicans drawing the districts. The losses will sting the party in the decade to come. Of course it's not very visible just yet, but that's actually because the 2012 election went so well for the Democrats in the Senate, not because the 2018 went so poorly.

Second of all, GOP Senators and House representatives staunchly defend Trump because his base is strong enough to dominate Republican party primaries. That will continue into 2020 of course but the point is their hands are tied. They either support Trump or else seek unemployment benefits, thus far most of them prefer the latter. The long-term effect is that people who might wish to run for office for the Republican party are now shying away, depriving the party as a whole of quality candidates. Lack of quality candidates does hurt your overall vote.

Third, Trump's base is mostly older people. The most loyal GOP voters are Silent and Boomer generations. Silent generation halved since 2016 as the share of total voters, Boomers decreased ever so slightly. About 1.5% of the electorate is changed every year and the change does not favor the GOP.

All of these and more against what? An incumbent with an economy that is doing somewhat okay? Not great, but kind of okay.

Trump has a chance to win in 2020, but his odds are poor. Bloomberg promised to spend up to $1 billion at defeating Trump - regardless of who's the Democratic candidate.

Quote:
Of course all of this is off topic for a Brexit thread
In part, but since BJ is strongly banking on Trump helping him out, not really

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 08:35 AM   #2456
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 27,072
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Can anyone say "poodle"?
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 08:46 AM   #2457
Delphic Oracle
Philosopher
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,242
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Can anyone say "poodle"?
How long before we bail you all out of some calamity with IMF loans that serve as puppet strings when "conditionalities" and "structural adjustment policies" are imposed?

Don't worry too much, we've been doing it to other countries for decades and you don't hear anyone complaining.

>:9
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 08:50 AM   #2458
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 27,072
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
I know exactly what it is. I was attempting to get Ian Osborne to do some research and realize that the USA and EU don't currently have a comprehensive "trade agreement".


Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Like many remainers he assumed that the EU already has a wonderful trade deal with the USA which the UK could never expect to equal by itself.


Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
the UK, once freed from the EU, can expect to do at least as well, and probably much better.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 09:49 AM   #2459
Klimax
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
 
Klimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 13,830
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
How long before we bail you all out of some calamity with IMF loans that serve as puppet strings when "conditionalities" and "structural adjustment policies" are imposed?

Don't worry too much, we've been doing it to other countries for decades and you don't hear anyone complaining.

>:9
Maybe one shouldn't be trying to bankrupt country if they don't want to be on short leash...
__________________
ModBorg

Engine: Ibalgin 400
Klimax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 09:52 AM   #2460
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,732
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Once again the EU is demonstrating how unsporting and utterly foreign they are by preparing for the trade negotiations in advance and publishing their workings:
"All over the world every nation's the same
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
And they practice beforehand, which spoils the fun."

Flander & Swann predicting post Brexit negotiations with everyone by several years.

Although with Johnson in charge Brabbins and Fyffe might be a better fit.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 09:20 PM   #2461
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 44,251
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The Independent: Trump threatened UK with 25% car tariffs unless it agreed to accuse Iran of breaking nuclear deal
The Independent: Trump threatened UK with 25% car tariffs unless it agreed to accuse Iran of breaking nuclear deal.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a9286496.html
Would investigating Joe Biden be a cheaper alternative?
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 17th January 2020, 11:41 PM   #2462
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 34,426
The chancellor has said that there will be no alignment with EU rules post-Brexit. That's our largest export market down the Swannee then .

Sorry, no link, I'm on my phone.


edited to add.....

Link and quote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51157933

Quote:
The chancellor has warned manufacturers that "there will not be alignment" with the EU after Brexit and insists firms must "adjust" to new regulations.

Speaking to the Financial Times, Sajid Javid admitted not all businesses would benefit from Brexit.

Last year, the automotive, food and drink and pharmaceutical sectors warned the government that no longer aligning with key EU rules would be damaging.

Mr Javid declined to specify which EU rules he wanted to drop.
also:

Quote:
The chancellor also said he wanted to double the UK's annual economic growth to between 2.7 and 2.8%.

However, the outgoing governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, told the Financial Times last week he thought the UK's trend growth rate was much lower, at between 1 and 1.5%.
He wants to double growth and I want a full head of hair but that isn't going to happen either. I fail to see how making it far more difficult to trade with a bloc which accounts for close to 50% of our international trade will act as a stimulus for growth.

Last edited by The Don; 18th January 2020 at 12:43 AM.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2020, 12:13 AM   #2463
Guybrush Threepwood
Trainee Pirate
 
Guybrush Threepwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: An Uaimh
Posts: 3,343
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
"All over the world every nation's the same
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
And they practice beforehand, which spoils ruins the fun."

Flander & Swann predicting post Brexit negotiations with everyone by several years.

Although with Johnson in charge Brabbins and Fyffe might be a better fit.
Sorry, couldn't suppress my inner scansion pedant,
Guybrush Threepwood is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2020, 03:26 AM   #2464
KDLarsen
Illuminator
 
KDLarsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,743
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
He cant stop lying about Brexit

The Guardian: Boris Johnson's Big Ben Brexit bong plan falls flat
The Guardian: Boris Johnson's Big Ben Brexit bong plan falls flat.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lan-falls-flat
I'm getting the feeling that he's learned from his good buddy trump on this one, namely that the only people who care about his constant lying, are people who don't support or agree with him anyway.

He keeps claiming the Tories will build 40 new hospitals, when they've only set aside funds for actually building 6.

He keeps claiming they'll hire 50,000 new nurses, when their own manifesto made clear that 20,000 of those would be existing NHS nurses who were retained (with no mention of they were planning to do so).

Both of the above lies were pointed out repeatedly during the election campaign, and yet he keeps repeating them.

Edit: Just like he kept repeating the "£350 million for the NHS" during the referendum campaign, when he was told face to face, on camera, that that figure was a gross distortion.

Last edited by KDLarsen; 18th January 2020 at 03:28 AM.
KDLarsen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2020, 04:47 PM   #2465
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,732
Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
Sorry, couldn't suppress my inner scansion pedant,
Thanks, my mistake!
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2020, 06:29 PM   #2466
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
Here is a photo essay on the current situation on the Irerland/Northern Ireland border. I hope you can view it from over there.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 18th January 2020, 07:03 PM   #2467
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 32,922
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Here is a photo essay on the current situation on the Irerland/Northern Ireland border. I hope you can view it from over there.
Thanks for that. I have been to a couple of those places - Belleek and Clones.
__________________
Слава Україні! **** Putin!
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 02:47 AM   #2468
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 102,478
We won't be bound by those EU regulations.... snip Any way you've all had 3 years to get ready...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-after-brexit


I know folk like The Don were concerned that there seemed to be no consideration for services in our post Brexit trading with the EU and was concerned about it was all about manufacturing. Well the government has now realised this and as is seemingly going to be this government's approach to anything difficult, to solve this disparity it's now also throwing manufacturing to the wolves.

NHS England targets not being reached? Drop the targets. Trade agreement with the EU difficult? Drop the trade agreement. HS2 difficult? Drop it.

I am seeing a pattern emerging...
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 03:14 AM   #2469
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 34,426
I see the government's approach is going to be to blame individual businesses for failing to prepare adequately for Brexit despite there being no way to do so (and never mind that the government hasn't prepared) rather than acknowledging that there may be some disadvantages to Brexit.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 03:20 AM   #2470
Ian Osborne
JREF Kid
Tagger
 
Ian Osborne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,476
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
(and never mind that the government hasn't prepared)
And never mind that today, just ten days before we leave, we've still no idea what Brexit will be.
__________________
"Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine

"The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan
Ian Osborne is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 03:21 AM   #2471
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 34,426
Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
And never mind that today, just ten days before we leave, we've still no idea what Brexit will be.
Well we do have 11 months of transition period to agree *everything* - perfectly doable
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 03:38 AM   #2472
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 28,009
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
NHS England targets not being reached? Drop the targets. Trade agreement with the EU difficult? Drop the trade agreement. HS2 difficult? Drop it.

I am seeing a pattern emerging...
It's called "decluttering"
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 04:04 AM   #2473
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,732
I we give them their ******* bongs at eleven o'clock do you think they'd notice if we withdrew A50 at five to? We could all agree to keep saying "Yes you're right, nothing changed it was all Project Fear" until they've found something else to be angry about.

Oh, sorry, I forgot our current Captain and his mates have insured the Titanic for double it's value, stuffed the first class lifeboats with Bolly and caviar, locked down the lower decks and are full speed ahead for the iceburg.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 04:15 AM   #2474
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 9,050
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Well we do have 11 months of transition period to agree *everything* - perfectly doable
I'd lay money on it being agreed as a last minute panic whether we have 11 months or 50 years.
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 05:30 AM   #2475
Lothian
should be banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside
Posts: 17,511
Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
And never mind that today, just ten days before we leave, we've still no idea what Brexit will be.
Well, remoaner, that is all your fault.

Every leaver I have spoken to knows exactly what Brexit they were voting for and gets really upset when you suggest otherwise.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 05:33 AM   #2476
Lothian
should be banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside
Posts: 17,511
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I'd lay money on it being agreed as a last minute panic whether we have 11 months or 50 years.
You would lose. We will not be ready to leave on a fully negotiated deal in 11 months. Either transition will be extended or we will move to a sub optimum arrangements in some areas with loads of resources then thrown at it to get off the "no deal" terms and on to a better agreement asap.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 06:37 AM   #2477
Ian Osborne
JREF Kid
Tagger
 
Ian Osborne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,476
Is there anything more disturbingly stupid than a senior Brexiteer?

A Brexit Party MEP just complained that leaving the EU leaves UK with no representation
__________________
"Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine

"The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan
Ian Osborne is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 07:17 AM   #2478
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 9,050
Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
You would lose. We will not be ready to leave on a fully negotiated deal in 11 months. Either transition will be extended or we will move to a sub optimum arrangements in some areas with loads of resources then thrown at it to get off the "no deal" terms and on to a better agreement asap.
Most of the time to reach the current deal was spent pissing about and delaying until the clock ran down. We shall see if the situation is transformed, but I am doubtful.
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 07:23 AM   #2479
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 34,426
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Most of the time to reach the current deal was spent pissing about and delaying until the clock ran down. We shall see if the situation is transformed, but I am doubtful.
IMO Boris Johnson's Dominic Cummings' plan is to leave with no deal and then allow the architects of Brexit to make a killing in the chaos that follows. If I'm right, there's no incentive to even try to do a deal though there may be some mileage in appearing to do one.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 21st January 2020, 07:44 AM   #2480
Lothian
should be banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside
Posts: 17,511
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Most of the time to reach the current deal was spent pissing about and delaying until the clock ran down. We shall see if the situation is transformed, but I am doubtful.
From the UK side, since the referendum the 'Government' have been working flat out on solutions. Admittedly although the government has not changed since the referendum, the 'solution' they want their minions to work on has changed many times and has changed dramatically. This has not in my view been deliberate delay rather it reflects the changing views of the PM responding to the party, the ERG, the public and whim, as well as the changing of PM. Under Boris there have been at least 3 different outcomes requestef with the order that everyone works on the current option 100%. The work on previous ones is binned with each change of plan.

Even if the current No 10 instructions were to stick and the EU were fully on board there is not time to deliver a complete solution. That is because it is difficult. There is not, in many areas, a simple solution we know will work and which we are all just waiting until 31st December to agree with the EU.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:07 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.