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Old 12th November 2021, 11:22 AM   #481
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Well, it was during the workday so "company time"...but I ended up having to work extra hours for no extra pay to do all the work I couldn't do in that time, so I think it worked out to being on my time after all.
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Claim overtime, then. At least if they are going to torture you, you should get paid for it.
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm in America, overtime isn't a thing for most people here.
It isn't a thing for most "exempt" (salaried) employees, but is required by law for hourly employees.

Unusually, three of the four places I worked as an engineer paid us overtime, although Boeing was only time plus $6.50, not time-and-a-half.
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Old 14th November 2021, 12:55 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
It isn't a thing for most "exempt" (salaried) employees, but is required by law for hourly employees.

Unusually, three of the four places I worked as an engineer paid us overtime, although Boeing was only time plus $6.50, not time-and-a-half.
Working the alternating shift schedule here. 12 hr shifts, 3 days on, four days off, four days on, three days off. That's 8 hrs overtime every 2 week pay period.
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Old 14th November 2021, 05:11 PM   #483
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Sure the "rules" say you have to pay overtime.

The rules also say you can fire anyone at any time for no reason.

So it unpaid overtime can still be an expectation put on salaried employees.
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Old 14th November 2021, 09:00 PM   #484
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I'm surprised that so many people in this thread seem to be paid hourly. I've been salaried for my entire IT career, from support to programming to unholy combinations of the two to whatever the heck it is I do now. (And those jobs have been across the whole spectrum of fanciness, it's not like they were all highly-paid and boast-worthy, so please don't think I'm being snobby about my frequently crappy jobs. Some of that pay was pretty damn low, it just was never paid by the hour.) I assumed it was just a standard IT industry practice to be salaried and not hourly.
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Old 14th November 2021, 09:46 PM   #485
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm surprised that so many people in this thread seem to be paid hourly. I've been salaried for my entire IT career, from support to programming to unholy combinations of the two to whatever the heck it is I do now. (And those jobs have been across the whole spectrum of fanciness, it's not like they were all highly-paid and boast-worthy, so please don't think I'm being snobby about my frequently crappy jobs. Some of that pay was pretty damn low, it just was never paid by the hour.) I assumed it was just a standard IT industry practice to be salaried and not hourly.
It is most standard in crap jobs. There are actual definitions for jobs that are exempt from overtime rules, but employers don’t have a lot of incentive to worry about those rules. Especially crappy employers.
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Old 14th November 2021, 10:33 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm surprised that so many people in this thread seem to be paid hourly. I've been salaried for my entire IT career, from support to programming to unholy combinations of the two to whatever the heck it is I do now. (And those jobs have been across the whole spectrum of fanciness, it's not like they were all highly-paid and boast-worthy, so please don't think I'm being snobby about my frequently crappy jobs. Some of that pay was pretty damn low, it just was never paid by the hour.) I assumed it was just a standard IT industry practice to be salaried and not hourly.
I was a hourly contractor when I was T1. When I received my permanency, I became salaried. In both cases penalty rates applied for working outside regular hours.
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Old 15th November 2021, 04:05 AM   #487
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I've been on salary since 1984. In the UK we have contracted hours but unofficially you're expected to do that bit extra to get the job done. However we still got paid overtime once it went beyond a cutoff. Twice I've been on call for a few years at a time and got quarter time for that plus double time (in hour units) whenever I was called.
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Old 15th November 2021, 06:40 AM   #488
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm surprised that so many people in this thread seem to be paid hourly. I've been salaried for my entire IT career, from support to programming to unholy combinations of the two to whatever the heck it is I do now. (And those jobs have been across the whole spectrum of fanciness, it's not like they were all highly-paid and boast-worthy, so please don't think I'm being snobby about my frequently crappy jobs. Some of that pay was pretty damn low, it just was never paid by the hour.) I assumed it was just a standard IT industry practice to be salaried and not hourly.
I'd bet pretty hard that the general rule is:

- If you work directly for the company you provide IT support for you are probably salaried.

- If you work for a contractor/other distinct business that provides IT support, you are probably hourly.

I'm hourly (plus mileage and a monthly cell phone allowance.)
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Old 15th November 2021, 10:42 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm surprised that so many people in this thread seem to be paid hourly. I've been salaried for my entire IT career, from support to programming to unholy combinations of the two to whatever the heck it is I do now. (And those jobs have been across the whole spectrum of fanciness, it's not like they were all highly-paid and boast-worthy, so please don't think I'm being snobby about my frequently crappy jobs. Some of that pay was pretty damn low, it just was never paid by the hour.) I assumed it was just a standard IT industry practice to be salaried and not hourly.
I've always been hourly as a technician, again not strictly IT. It was only as a mechanical engineer that I was on salary.
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Old 15th November 2021, 10:55 AM   #490
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
It is most standard in crap jobs. There are actual definitions for jobs that are exempt from overtime rules, but employers don’t have a lot of incentive to worry about those rules. Especially crappy employers.
Where I am now I was originally a subcontractor of this subcontractor. When I took the job the pay period was monthly and overtime was only payed OT rate for over 40 hrs a week averaged over the month long pay period. While against state law, I didn't mind as it was still 30% more than I was making before. 5 to 7 years later they started complying with the law which works out to 8 hrs of OT every two weeks. One of the guys always said if he ever left or got fired he'd sue them for the unpaid OT. I don't know if he ever did but it was about a year or so after he left that they started complying with the law. Never did the calculation of 4 hrs at regular rate every two weeks for like 5 to 7 years. I knew what I was agreeing to when I took the job.
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Old 15th November 2021, 01:44 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
It isn't a thing for most "exempt" (salaried) employees, but is required by law for hourly employees.

Unusually, three of the four places I worked as an engineer paid us overtime, although Boeing was only time plus $6.50, not time-and-a-half.
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm surprised that so many people in this thread seem to be paid hourly. I've been salaried for my entire IT career, from support to programming to unholy combinations of the two to whatever the heck it is I do now. (And those jobs have been across the whole spectrum of fanciness, it's not like they were all highly-paid and boast-worthy, so please don't think I'm being snobby about my frequently crappy jobs. Some of that pay was pretty damn low, it just was never paid by the hour.) I assumed it was just a standard IT industry practice to be salaried and not hourly.
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
It is most standard in crap jobs. There are actual definitions for jobs that are exempt from overtime rules, but employers don’t have a lot of incentive to worry about those rules. Especially crappy employers.
Yeah, I overlooked this when I made my original comment. US workers are much more at risk, and have few of the pay benefits other countries have as standard. I'm salaried, but all workers, salaried and hourly, in Australia have agreed work hours in legislation. Work beyond that is subject to overtime. This can get complicated for contract work and shift work.

e.g. I work in a public hospital currently, so my employer is the state government. We have an employee "agreement" with the state about working conditions and pay rates (among many other things), including overtime conditions. We also have rates stipulated for non-standard work days, e.g. working on Christmas Day (traditionally triple time).

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I was a hourly contractor when I was T1. When I received my permanency, I became salaried. In both cases penalty rates applied for working outside regular hours.
There you go.
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Old 15th November 2021, 07:29 PM   #492
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Government work is awesome. We have so much job security.
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Old 16th November 2021, 06:16 PM   #493
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Things I Wish More People Would Understand, Part 386: Service Desk operators are Customer Service people, not technicians.
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Old 16th November 2021, 08:17 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Things I Wish More People Would Understand, Part 386: Service Desk operators are Customer Service people, not technicians.
Maybe the technicians are in part 387.

Joke is a take on the Intel 80386 CPU chip and its accessory 80387 math-co-processor.
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Old 16th November 2021, 08:21 PM   #495
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Haha I didn't even notice that. I just typed a random number.
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Old 17th November 2021, 02:22 AM   #496
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Haha I didn't even notice that. I just typed a random number.
Your subconscious might disagree.
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Old 17th November 2021, 07:28 AM   #497
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This is completely non-IT related but over the weekend the cleaning crew waxed all the floors and for the last couple days the buildings have been full of echoing sneaker squeaks and it is rather annoying.
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Old 17th November 2021, 08:14 AM   #498
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This is completely non-IT related but over the weekend the cleaning crew waxed all the floors and for the last couple days the buildings have been full of echoing sneaker squeaks and it is rather annoying.
That's why I can never understand how people can stand to watch basketball. That sound is like nails on a chalkboard to me.
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Old 17th November 2021, 09:42 AM   #499
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Your subconscious might disagree.
Pray this exchange doesn't get overheard by the telepathy thread just over there.
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Old 17th November 2021, 05:34 PM   #500
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Old 17th November 2021, 08:09 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This is completely non-IT related but over the weekend the cleaning crew waxed all the floors and for the last couple days the buildings have been full of echoing sneaker squeaks and it is rather annoying.
Take off the sneakers so you can slide around on your socks!
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Old 17th November 2021, 08:51 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Take off the sneakers so you can slide around on your socks!
Ah hem. These are IT people. They don't wear socks.
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Old 18th November 2021, 01:41 AM   #503
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Ah hem. These are IT people. They don't wear socks.
... Wait, what? Did I miss a memo?
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Old 18th November 2021, 03:32 AM   #504
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How can you wear mountain boots without socks?
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Old 18th November 2021, 05:30 AM   #505
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I was assuming they must be argyle tattoos.
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Old 18th November 2021, 12:59 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Ah hem. These are IT people. They don't wear socks.
Yes they do - with their sandals.
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Old 18th November 2021, 03:41 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
Yes they do - with their sandals.
If they're quiche eaters. Realm programmers wear mountain boots.
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Old 18th November 2021, 05:13 PM   #508
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I just got off a call with a perfectly lovely fellow who had absolutely no clue. He said that I was very good at my job. I was able to answer all his questions and explain everything in ways he could readily understand. I went the extra mile for this person, because he was pleasant and in a good mood. It was a good call.

I mention it here because in our jobs, and in this thread, we have a tendency to complain and vent. We tend to focus on the bad customers. I think it's important for our outlook and sanity to recognise that occasionally, we get good ones too.
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Old 18th November 2021, 05:39 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
If they're quiche eaters. Realm programmers wear mountain boots.
Which realm?
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Old 19th November 2021, 12:19 AM   #510
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I just got off a call with a perfectly lovely fellow who had absolutely no clue. He said that I was very good at my job. I was able to answer all his questions and explain everything in ways he could readily understand. I went the extra mile for this person, because he was pleasant and in a good mood. It was a good call.

I mention it here because in our jobs, and in this thread, we have a tendency to complain and vent. We tend to focus on the bad customers. I think it's important for our outlook and sanity to recognise that occasionally, we get good ones too.
My best experience with a user was when I was making administrative software for doctors (general practitioners). We were actually partly user owned so we had meetings with the user group twice a year. On one of those meetings I had one of the secretaries who used the system as her main tool for doing her job and who I'd interacted with quite a bit on a feature come up to me and say "You know that button you made (collecting some aggregated data about a patient). That saves me an hour of work a day that I can use on patient-facing stuff. I love that button". That about made my year.
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Old 19th November 2021, 12:33 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
My best experience with a user was when I was making administrative software for doctors (general practitioners). We were actually partly user owned so we had meetings with the user group twice a year. On one of those meetings I had one of the secretaries who used the system as her main tool for doing her job and who I'd interacted with quite a bit on a feature come up to me and say "You know that button you made (collecting some aggregated data about a patient). That saves me an hour of work a day that I can use on patient-facing stuff. I love that button". That about made my year.
Yeah, I've been in a good mood all day, because of that one call.
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Old 19th November 2021, 03:13 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Which realm?
Sigh.
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Old 19th November 2021, 10:11 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Sigh.
Translation --> "If you have to ask, I'm not telling you".
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Old 19th November 2021, 10:19 AM   #514
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Ah, the joy of trying to work from home when one's internet speed is down to 8 mbps. Finally fixed itself. It was...not fun. I'm still periodically sending emails to myself to make sure they're going to go through.
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Old 20th November 2021, 01:44 AM   #515
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Translation --> "If you have to ask, I'm not telling you".
I debated claiming it's because I have done a little work with realm on Android but honestly I have no clue how that typo crept in. I suck at typing on phones.
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Old 20th November 2021, 07:52 AM   #516
Gord_in_Toronto
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I debated claiming it's because I have done a little work with realm on Android but honestly I have no clue how that typo crept in. I suck at typing on phones.
You didn't have to explain. I did not ask.

Reilly you did not have to.
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Old 28th November 2021, 08:14 PM   #517
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I've just had my competency assessed.

The good news is that I have been officially found to be competent.
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Old 28th November 2021, 11:01 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Ah, the joy of trying to work from home when one's internet speed is down to 8 mbps. Finally fixed itself. It was...not fun. I'm still periodically sending emails to myself to make sure they're going to go through.
Remember when 1200 baud was awesome? I do.
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Old 29th November 2021, 04:22 AM   #519
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Remember when 1200 baud was awesome? I do.
1200 baud? Luxury! We had 2 tin cans and a string but it was an internet to us.
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Old 29th November 2021, 04:47 AM   #520
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Remember when 1200 baud was awesome? I do.
You could run 10 3270 terminals off it at once
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