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Old 20th January 2005, 10:13 PM   #1
1inChrist
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A question for atheists here.

If you found out tomorrow that God exists, would you follow Him? Would you submit yourself to His will?

Most atheists believe that God is some kind of monster, so I'm interested in knowing that even if He revealed Himself unto you, would you follow Him?
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And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in HELL.
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Old 20th January 2005, 10:18 PM   #2
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Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
Most atheists believe that God is some kind of monster
By definition, atheists believe god does not exist, not that he is a monster.

Now, if tomorrow, an omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent god of the bible appeared, would I follow him? No. Cause then he'd be a petty, vidictive monster, in contrast to the figment of your imagination he is today.
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Old 20th January 2005, 10:22 PM   #3
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Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Donks
By definition, atheists believe god does not exist, not that he is a monster.

Now, if tomorrow, an omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent god of the bible appeared, would I follow him? No. Cause then he'd be a petty, vidictive monster, in contrast to the figment of your imagination he is today.
Do you understand the reality of the Hellfire?

The Truth about Hell.
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Matthew 10:28:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in HELL.
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Old 20th January 2005, 10:24 PM   #4
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Re: Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
Do you understand the reality of the Hellfire?

The Truth about Hell.
Sure. I fart in hellfire's general direction.
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Old 20th January 2005, 10:28 PM   #5
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Re: Re: Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Donks
Sure. I fart in hellfire's general direction.
I will pray for your eternal soul.
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Matthew 10:28:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in HELL.
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Old 20th January 2005, 10:31 PM   #6
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
I will pray for your eternal soul.
Jolly good. If you like it that much, I can be persuaded to sell it for a reasonable price.
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Old 20th January 2005, 10:31 PM   #7
Lord Emsworth
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Look who's back.

What's god?

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Old 20th January 2005, 10:34 PM   #8
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Donks
Jolly good. If you like it that much, I can be persuaded to sell it for a reasonable price.

He said "pray" not "pay."

But just as an aside, I'd also be interested in selling, so if anybody is looking for a soul in top condition, hardly used ...

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Old 20th January 2005, 10:35 PM   #9
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Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist

If you found out tomorrow that God exists, would you follow Him? Would you submit yourself to His will?
No.


Quote:
Most atheists believe that God is some kind of monster, so I'm interested in knowing that even if He revealed Himself unto you, would you follow Him?
Where are we supposed to follow Him?
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Old 20th January 2005, 10:37 PM   #10
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A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Emsworth
He said "pray" not "pay."

But just as an aside, I'd also be interested in selling, so if anybody is looking for a soul in top condition, hardly used ...

Yeah, I know he said "pray", but if he's willing to take the time to pray for it, maybe he can be convinced to buy it.
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Old 20th January 2005, 10:42 PM   #11
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Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Donks
Yeah, I know he said "pray", but if he's willing to take the time to pray for it, maybe he can be convinced to buy it.

I think you are on to something ...

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Old 20th January 2005, 11:27 PM   #12
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Re: Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
Do you understand the reality of the Hellfire
Yes, that it is utter crap and any actual fire it produces comes from the noxious methane fumes emanating from it.
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Old 20th January 2005, 11:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you found out tomorrow that God exists
Which tomorrow are we refering to? The actual tomorrow or the ever-extended tomorrow?

Quote:

, would you follow Him?


In the literal sense? Depends on where he's going.

Quote:

Would you submit yourself to His will?


Only if we had agreed upon a safe word. You saw how badly that went for the guy last time.

[Biblical euphamisms] Yes, I would throw myself at the feet of God, and be subject to the hands of God. I would see the second *coming*, and say in the end that I had known God. [/Biblical euphamisms]

Is your God supposed to have tentacles? I've always wanted to see what real tentacle-lovin' would be like.

Quote:

Most atheists believe that God is some kind of monster, so I'm interested in knowing that even if He revealed Himself unto you, would you follow Him?
OK, while a subordinate clause does not have to be linked gramatically to the rest of the sentence, it is customary that it have some logical connection to it. I am of course aware that your religion specifically prohibits the use of logic, so I'll try to be as flexible as I would be if your kinky tentacle-god was submitting me to his will.

Umm... maybe.
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Old 21st January 2005, 12:08 AM   #14
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1inChrist,

If you found out tomorrow that God and the Devil were not separate beings but one single being - would you submit to his will and follow his word?
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Old 21st January 2005, 12:17 AM   #15
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Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
Most atheists believe that God is some kind of monster, so I'm interested in knowing that even if He revealed Himself unto you, would you follow Him?
No, atheists believe that God is some kind of fictional monster. So any entity "revealing" himself as "God" is obviously lying.

[Shatner]"Why... would... god... need... a starship?"[/Shatner]

Hell is fictional too. Besides, I was born in Arizona and I've been to Terra Haute. What hell can be worse than that? I mock Hell and your pathetic fear of imaginary real estate. Isn't it funny that your alleged saviour's book tells you to "turn the other cheek", yet you spend your time imagining horrible violent punishments for those that do not share your convictions? Are you that afraid of those different from yourself?

I'd be willing to sell my soul as well. Tell your Satan that I'm ready to make a deal. I'll even offer it for timeshares, if tempters from other pantheons are interested. It's practically new, I hardly ever soul with it.

You keep asking what would happen if god revealed himself "tomorrow". Why not right now? He's two millenia late as it is, what is keeping him? I think you've been stood up, dude.

Besides, being straight, I'd only submit to the will of a female god. Good thing Eris admits she is fictional.
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Old 21st January 2005, 12:47 AM   #16
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Another hit-and-run thread by 1inchChrist.

.. Or rather, a swipe-at-thin-air-and-scuttle-back-under-the-stone thread .

But, what the h..., I'll reply:

If God turned up tomorrow and proved that he was indeed the omnipotent/omniscient/benevolent god christians have been talking about, I'd first ask him what he has been doing the last couple of thousand years, and if the answer was satisfactory (like "I've been off mending another universe that wuz even worse off than this one"), yes, I would probably follow him.

Hans
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Old 21st January 2005, 01:26 AM   #17
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This is a joke, right?

I mean, you can't possibly have forgotten massive heap of answers you got the last twenty-seven or so times you asked this exact same question a few months ago, right?

Oh, and by the way...

I WON THIS DEBATE.
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Old 21st January 2005, 02:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quinn
I WON THIS DEBATE.

No, you did not.


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Old 21st January 2005, 02:18 AM   #19
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He's Ba ack! Can your monitor handle all the font/size/color combos yet to come?

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Old 21st January 2005, 03:07 AM   #20
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Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Donks
By definition, atheists believe god does not exist, not that he is a monster.

Now, if tomorrow, an omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent god of the bible appeared, would I follow him? No. Cause then he'd be a petty, vidictive monster, in contrast to the figment of your imagination he is today.
the rejection by superiority argument
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Old 21st January 2005, 04:17 AM   #21
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Re: Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Riddick
the rejection by superiority argument

Is it possible to explain that?

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Old 21st January 2005, 04:22 AM   #22
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Nice to see he's thought up lots of new material since 10th December.

Where have you been? In the garage? In the pen?
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Old 21st January 2005, 06:07 AM   #23
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Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you found out tomorrow that God exists, would you follow Him? Would you submit yourself to His will?
If we're talking about the Christian God; I probably would but I would need to understand a bit more about God than just the fact of his existence. Just because something is powerful and exists doesn't mean it should automatically be worshipped.

Quote:
Most atheists believe that God is some kind of monster
How can something that doesn't exist be a monster?
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Old 21st January 2005, 06:34 AM   #24
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1inChrist
Quote:
Most atheists believe that God is some kind of monster, so I'm interested in knowing that even if He revealed Himself unto you, would you follow Him?
Which god and what attributes? And where has she been for the past 5,000 years?

Iacchus
Quote:
Where are we supposed to follow Him?
To Frugal McDugals (liquor store) for some Jack Daniels Coolers or maybe a light chardonnay.

H3LL
Quote:
Where have you been? In the garage? In the pen?
I have it from the same source 1inChrist gets most of his info (I made it up), that he’s in the local sanitarium.
He has managed to avoid biting any orderlies and they have granted him limited computer access.

Ossai
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Old 21st January 2005, 06:42 AM   #25
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Hmmmm... even if God was real I don't think I would be able to submit to his will. I mean, I could lie, but I am pretty sure he would realize that. In the end it is really God's fault that he gave me free will and a small fraction of reasoning to see how he wouldn't be worthy of my worship.
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Old 21st January 2005, 06:43 AM   #26
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Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you found out tomorrow that God exists, would you follow Him?
That depends. How aesthetically pleasing is the curve of his bum? I don't want to be stuck back there staring at some flat bottom.

Big bottom...big bottom...talk about bumcakes, my God's got 'em. Big bottom, drive me outta my mind. How can I leave this....behind?

Quote:
Would you submit yourself to His will?
I could do that, I guess. What's the safeword?

edited for tags
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Old 21st January 2005, 07:22 AM   #27
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Re: Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Riddick
the rejection by superiority argument
Hello, Mr. Kettle, it's Mr. Pot on the phone for you.......
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Old 21st January 2005, 07:29 AM   #28
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If I had proof that God existed tomorrow, I would acknowledge Him/Her/It.

Whether or not I "submit to God's will" would depend entirely upon what kind of ...person/god/being God is. Ultimately, I am a moral being* and responsible for my own conduct. If "submitting to God's will" requires me to do something that is against my own conscious, then I would not submit. If, however, whatever God will is just and fair, then I suppose I might submit.

I find the Biblical Old Testament God to be neither just nor fair. I find the New Testament God to be much better over all, but rather questionable in some of the finer details. So, I would not submit to the OT God at all. I might submit to the NT God assuming various points were cleared up.

As far as believing that God is a monster, as has been pointed out, I do not believe the Christian God exists and therefore do not consider Him a monster. Whenever I do make an argument to that effect, it is because I am making a point based on someone else's beliefs and drawing logical conclusions from those beliefs. For example, if someone were to assume that God was an omni-benevolent, omnipotent controller of the universe, it would be logically inconsistent with the fact that pain exists in the universe, etc.



* I'm using "moral being" in the sense that I am capable of possessing morals, good, bad, or indifferent. I am not using it in the sense that I am a upstanding person with good morals.
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Old 21st January 2005, 07:37 AM   #29
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Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you found out tomorrow that God exists, would you follow Him? Would you submit yourself to His will?

If you found out tomorrow that God does not exist, would you cease to believe?

If not, why not?
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Old 21st January 2005, 07:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Upchurch
Whether or not I "submit to God's will" would depend entirely upon what kind of ...person/god/being God is. Ultimately, I am a moral being* and responsible for my own conduct. If "submitting to God's will" requires me to do something that is against my own conscious, then I would not submit. If, however, whatever God will is just and fair, then I suppose I might submit.
Just as a minor point of order, what you describe isn't actually submitting to god's will.

Submitting to someone's will involves doing exactly what they tell you regardless of how you feel about it.

My answer is therefore an unequivocal NO. I'd be pissed off in the extreme if god turned up tomorrow and expected me not to use the free will it had given me.

Of course I don't believe that god exists and thus seriously doubt that it'll turn up tomorrow, or any other time.
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Old 21st January 2005, 07:45 AM   #31
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Hello, 1inAmerican.
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Old 21st January 2005, 07:53 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by wollery
Just as a minor point of order, what you describe isn't actually submitting to god's will.

Submitting to someone's will involves doing exactly what they tell you regardless of how you feel about it.

My answer is therefore an unequivocal NO. I'd be pissed off in the extreme if god turned up tomorrow and expected me not to use the free will it had given me.
Oh, I had assumed "submiting to God's will" meant only to do whatever it is that God wills out of choice rather than through compulsion.

If it does, indeed, require the absolute abandonment of my own will, then I would never submit to God's (or anyone's) will.
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Old 21st January 2005, 07:59 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ossai

I have it from the same source 1inChrist gets most of his info (I made it up), that he’s in the local sanitarium.
He has managed to avoid biting any orderlies and they have granted him limited computer access.
Eh? He is a pilot for american airlines, don't know what you are talking about. His constant travel leaves him with little time for computer access. Happy flying.

(j/k btw)
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Old 21st January 2005, 08:30 AM   #34
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Why would an omnipotent, omniscient, presumably wise being WANT to be worshipped? I have never heard a satisfactory answer to this question.
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Old 21st January 2005, 08:45 AM   #35
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Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
Big bottom...big bottom...talk about bumcakes, my God's got 'em. Big bottom, drive me outta my mind. How can I leave this....behind?
everyone plays bass - forget those Jericho trumpets, this'll really shake your foundations!


great movie!

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Old 21st January 2005, 08:55 AM   #36
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Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you found out tomorrow that God exists, would you follow Him? Would you submit yourself to His will?
Which god?
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Old 21st January 2005, 09:03 AM   #37
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Re: Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
Do you understand the reality of the Hellfire?

The Truth about Hell.
It's obvious your fear tactics aren't working at all, and are actually turning people off from wanting to know anything about your God which I would suppose He wouldn't be real keen on. As such, I believe you are actually doing the Devil's work. As you are failing miserably in your purpose, and are obviously a poor spokesperson for Him, don't you think it's time to try a different tack or hobby?

And no, if I were to find out "God", as seen through your eyes, existed tomorrow, I would not follow him. Someone's got to stand up to the bastard. There are principles at stake, here. Maybe if enough of his creations tell him he's a jerk, oh, he may destroy us and burn us forever and torture us to prove his Godly Power, but he'll think on it.
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Old 21st January 2005, 11:36 AM   #38
Seismosaurus
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Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you found out tomorrow that God exists, would you follow Him? Would you submit yourself to His will?
To my mind, nothing and nobody that exists or can exist is worthy of worship. God included.
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Old 21st January 2005, 03:16 PM   #39
Renfield
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Re: Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Donks
By definition, atheists believe god does not exist, not that he is a monster.

Now, if tomorrow, an omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent god of the bible appeared, would I follow him? No. Cause then he'd be a petty, vidictive monster, in contrast to the figment of your imagination he is today.
To paraphrase Mark Twain, if God did exist, he would have to be a malign thug.

Indeed. Looking at the state of things today, and through our history, its hard to argue with that.
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Old 21st January 2005, 03:26 PM   #40
AWPrime
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Re: A question for atheists here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1inChrist
If you found out tomorrow that God exists, would you follow Him? Would you submit yourself to His will?
No,

I will rip him to bits and eat him.


'Gods, the other white meat'
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