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Tags islam , koran

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Old 9th February 2019, 01:56 AM   #1001
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I think the argument is that because natural things exist, therefore supernatural things also exist.
Also, not just any old supernatural things, but only the special ones that I believe in.
That anyone can sustain this kind of thinking in this day and age is, in itself, a miracle.
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
BREAKING: old book mentions natural phenomena, proves existence of the supernatural.
You're welcome.
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Old 12th February 2019, 06:51 PM   #1002
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[Quran 17.12] We have made the night and the day two wonders. We erased the wonder of the night, and made the wonder of the day revealing, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and know the number of years, and the calculation. We have explained all things in detail.

http://www.miracles-of-quran.com/sunlight.htm
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Old 12th February 2019, 06:59 PM   #1003
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
BREAKING: old book mentions natural phenomena, proves existence of the supernatural.

You didn't talk like that when we give the verses that mention the black holes, the pulsars, the Big Crunch...
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:07 AM   #1004
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They mentioned nothing of the sort
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:26 AM   #1005
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Not all heroes wear capes
https://i.redd.it/e689x8uynbg21.jpg

https://www.reddit.com/r/insanepeopl...es_wear_capes/
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:39 AM   #1006
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
[Quran 17.12] We have made the night and the day two wonders. We erased the wonder of the night, and made the wonder of the day revealing...
Dawn. Happens every day, to everyone. You've apparently run out of extraordinary natural phenomena and are now trying to get applause for the ordinary and routine.
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Old 13th February 2019, 06:40 AM   #1007
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You didn't talk like that when we give the verses that mention the black holes, the pulsars, the Big Crunch...
All natural phenomena. You're really not very good at this.
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Old 13th February 2019, 04:27 PM   #1008
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You didn't talk like that when we give the verses that mention the black holes, the pulsars, the Big Crunch...
How about the voice activated door miracle in the Ali Baba story?

We don't see the like of it in Quran.

I can write you one miracle everyday from the Arabian nights books for the next 20 years.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:57 AM   #1009
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You didn't talk like that when we give the verses that mention the black holes, the pulsars, the Big Crunch...
Can you give any examples of historical Muslim scholars who posited the existence of pulsars or black holes based on this reading of the Quran, as opposed to apologists like you retrospectively twisting the verses so they appear to predict modern scientific discoveries?
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Old 14th February 2019, 02:01 AM   #1010
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Come to mention it, can you give any examples at all of scientific discoveries made solely by reading the Quran, without using the usual scientific methodology?
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Old 14th February 2019, 03:08 AM   #1011
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Come to mention it, can you give any examples at all of scientific discoveries made solely by reading the Quran, without using the usual scientific methodology?

For example, in my Turkish article I wrote that the stars are shooting from light/flame:

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2016/...revrenler.html

And then it was discovered:

https://www.upi.com/Science_News/201...475783632/ph2/

I also wrote years ago that the objects could be made invisible.
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Old 14th February 2019, 04:01 AM   #1012
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I'm constantly amazed threads like this go for 26 pages and counting.

Some guy thinks religous text is literal. Good for you.

Does anyone honestly think they can talk reason to a person like this? I ask this genuinely. Has anybody actually made a bibel/qaran literalist give up their beliefs through reasonable debate?
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Old 14th February 2019, 07:25 AM   #1013
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
For example, in my Turkish article I wrote that the stars are shooting from light/flame:

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2016/...revrenler.html

And then it was discovered:

https://www.upi.com/Science_News/201...475783632/ph2/

I also wrote years ago that the objects could be made invisible.

That doesn't answer the question he asked. Those things had been discovered when you wrote that gibberish.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:39 AM   #1014
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Originally Posted by philkensebben View Post
[snip]
Does anyone honestly think they can talk reason to a person like this? I ask this genuinely. Has anybody actually made a bibel/qaran literalist give up their beliefs through reasonable debate?
I have no interest in changing anyones mind or of convincing anyone of anything1. The OP has her/his agenda and she/he blithers on oblivious and it's sort of fun to watch. I follow the thread partly to watch the OP in a train wreck of their own making and partly to try and make sense of how people can distort reality so drastically.


1I also don't think it's really possible to change anyones mind unless the person wants to.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:49 AM   #1015
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
T. Those things had been discovered when you wrote .
No.
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:45 AM   #1016
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No.
Your post says "No" but your eyes say, "Yes."
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:00 PM   #1017
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Originally Posted by philkensebben View Post
I'm constantly amazed threads like this go for 26 pages and counting.

Some guy thinks religous text is literal. Good for you.

Does anyone honestly think they can talk reason to a person like this? I ask this genuinely. Has anybody actually made a bibel/qaran literalist give up their beliefs through reasonable debate?

I think it has happened but only if the Bible/Quran literalist has the ability to reason.
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Old 14th February 2019, 01:06 PM   #1018
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
For example, in my Turkish article I wrote that the stars are shooting from light/flame:

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2016/...revrenler.html

And then it was discovered:

https://www.upi.com/Science_News/201...475783632/ph2/

I also wrote years ago that the objects could be made invisible.
Writing about something in a fairy book is hardly a miracle.
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Old 15th February 2019, 05:22 AM   #1019
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
For example, in my Turkish article I wrote that the stars are shooting from light/flame:

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2016/...revrenler.html

And then it was discovered:

https://www.upi.com/Science_News/201...475783632/ph2/

I also wrote years ago that the objects could be made invisible.
So not plasma, then.
Vague statements about "light/flame" do not count as science. Science is a little more precise than that. Double fail.
Can you give us a translation of your article, just so we can see what you said?
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:19 AM   #1020
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
So not plasma, then.
Vague statements about "light/flame" do not count as science. Science is a little more precise than that. Double fail.
Can you give us a translation of your article, just so we can see what you said?
I tried Google Translate. The results were unintelligible. I suspect this means it was an accurate translation.
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Old 15th February 2019, 02:27 PM   #1021
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
So not plasma, then.
Vague statements about "light/flame" do not count as science. Science is a little more precise than that. Double fail.
Can you give us a translation of your article, just so we can see what you said?
Plasmas are not from water or wooden.

They are fire/light

http://www.astronomy.com/news/2016/1...ting-from-star

"Fireballs", "cannon fire"

***

Al Jinn

8. ´And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.

9. ´We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.

67:5 We have adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and We made it with projectiles against the devils; and We prepared for them the retribution of the blazing fire.

Saffat

6. We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-

7. (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil

8. (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,

9. Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,

10. Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.

***

lower heaven = our universe


"Görüldüğü üzere atıştan kastedilen ışık/alevdir."
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Old 15th February 2019, 02:36 PM   #1022
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Plasmas are not from water or wooden.

They are fire/light

http://www.astronomy.com/news/2016/1...ting-from-star

"Fireballs", "cannon fire"

***

Al Jinn

8. ´And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.

9. ´We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.

67:5 We have adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and We made it with projectiles against the devils; and We prepared for them the retribution of the blazing fire.

Saffat

6. We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-

7. (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil

8. (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,

9. Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,

10. Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.

***

lower heaven = our universe


"Görüldüğü üzere atıştan kastedilen ışık/alevdir."
So, they saw shooting stars and compared them to cannon fire.

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Old 15th February 2019, 02:52 PM   #1023
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Narrator: but there would be no cannon for hundreds of years
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Old 16th February 2019, 02:23 AM   #1024
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Plasmas are not from water or wooden.

They are fire/light

http://www.astronomy.com/news/2016/1...ting-from-star

"Fireballs", "cannon fire"

***

Al Jinn

8. ´And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.

9. ´We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.

67:5 We have adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and We made it with projectiles against the devils; and We prepared for them the retribution of the blazing fire.

Saffat

6. We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-

7. (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil

8. (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,

9. Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,

10. Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.

***

lower heaven = our universe


"Görüldüğü üzere atıştan kastedilen ışık/alevdir."
This is too funny for words.
By way of comparison, this is the original report from the Astrophysical Journal.
An excerpt:
Quote:
The well-studied carbon star, V Hya, showing evidence for high-speed, collimated outflows and dense equatorial structures, is a key object in the study of the poorly understood transition of AGB stars into aspherical planetary nebulae. Using the Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph instrument on board the Hubble Space Telescope, we have obtained high spatial-resolution long-slit optical spectra of V Hya that show high-velocity emission in [S II] and [Fe II] lines. Our data set, spanning three epochs spaced apart by a year during each of two periods (in 2002–2004 and 2011–2013), shows that V Hya ejects high-speed (∼200–250 - km s 1 ) bullets once every ∼8.5 years. The ejection axis flip–flops around a roughly eastern direction, both in and perpendicular to the skyplane, and the radial velocities of the ejecta also vary in concert between low and high values. We propose a model in which the bullet ejection is associated with the periastron passage of a binary companion in an eccentric orbit around V Hya with an orbital period of ∼8.5 years. The flip–flop phenomenon is likely the result of collimated ejection from an accretion disk (produced by gravitational capture of material from the primary) that is warped and precessing, and/or that has a magnetic field that is misaligned with that of the companion or the primary star. We show how a previously observed 17 year period in V Hya’s light-cycle can also be explained in our model.
Additionally, we describe how the model proposed here can be extended to account for multipolar nebulae.
Strange that your god was unable or unwilling to go into the same level of detail, espcecially as he supposedly made all this happen.
Note the curious absence of guards, talking fires and demons in the real science as well. How do you explain this?
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Old 16th February 2019, 03:30 AM   #1025
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Plasmas are not from water or wooden.

They are fire/light
What nonsense! Plasma is neither fire nor light, plasma is plasma. Your ideas of water, fire, light, and wood is hopelessly outdated. And you forgot metal.
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Old 16th February 2019, 03:52 AM   #1026
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http://www.astronomy.com/news/2016/1...ting-from-star

"Hubble finds fireballs shooting from star"

"Fireballs", "cannon fire"
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Old 16th February 2019, 05:39 AM   #1027
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
http://www.astronomy.com/news/2016/1...ting-from-star



"Hubble finds fireballs shooting from star"



"Fireballs", "cannon fire"
What about it? Cannons were not invented at the time when the Quran was written, so I am quite sure that it was not mentioned in that book. If it was, it would be a lot more surprising than the coincidence of flowering language in the Quran and in a news article.
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Old 17th February 2019, 01:59 AM   #1028
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
http://www.astronomy.com/news/2016/1...ting-from-star

"Hubble finds fireballs shooting from star"

"Fireballs", "cannon fire"
Once again: were the fireballs aimed at demons? Was the Hubble telescope ambushed by a living fire? How does what your special book says resemble in any way the scientific report I linked to?
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Old 17th February 2019, 08:11 AM   #1029
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For those not acquainted with the Arabic names of Quran surahs, here are the verses Emre quoted, with the Arabic and English names and surah numbers. Yusuf Ali translation.

The Jinn ( Al-Jinn)

72.8 'And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern
guards and flaming fires.

72.9 'We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but
any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.

The ranks ( Al-Saffat)

37.6 We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-

37.7 (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,

37.8 (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted
Assembly but be cast away from every side,

37.9 Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,

37.10 Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a
flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
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Old 17th February 2019, 08:16 AM   #1030
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
67:5 We have adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and We made it with projectiles against the devils; and We prepared for them the retribution of the blazing fire.
This verse is clearly stating the stars are missiles to throw at devils. Muhammad obviously thought stars were lamps and confused them with meteors. He thought meteors were falling stars being thrown at devils.
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Old 17th February 2019, 01:43 PM   #1031
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Once again: were the fireballs aimed at demons? Was the Hubble telescope ambushed by a living fire? How does what your special book says resemble in any way the scientific report I linked to?
There are verses about the lightnings that sometimes they targets non-believers.

But that doesn't always mean the lightning strikes targets them.

And science doesn't care about that. It's just observing the case.

Science has once again confirmed the Koran. The stars are shooting from the flame/light.

And I wrote that before the discovery.

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Old 17th February 2019, 02:57 PM   #1032
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
[snip]
Science has once again confirmed the Koran. [snip]
No, science has done no such thing.
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Old 18th February 2019, 02:06 AM   #1033
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
There are verses about the lightnings that sometimes they targets non-believers.

But that doesn't always mean the lightning strikes targets them.

And science doesn't care about that. It's just observing the case.

Science has once again confirmed the Koran. The stars are shooting from the flame/light.

And I wrote that before the discovery.
Please name one single unbeliever who has been hit by a ball of plasma shot from a star.
Do you actually know what lightning is? Do you think it comes from the stars?

When 13 Muslims, their imam among them, were killed by a lightning strike, what do you think happened? Did Allah miss, or is your theory complete nonsense?
https://www.thenational.ae/world/asi...osque-1.591696
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Old 18th February 2019, 01:01 PM   #1034
dann
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
What about it? Cannons were not invented at the time when the Quran was written, so I am quite sure that it was not mentioned in that book.

I didn't know that! I thought they were invented much earlier. As a Scandinavian, I guess I ought to have noticed that cannons are never mentioned in the stories about the Vikings. They would have been very useful to their enemies!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:12 AM   #1035
Filippo Lippi
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Hey Emre, why has God not granted you the ability to be convincing?

Eta - God knows precisely what it will take for me to believe in him, yet you keep typing nonsense, why is that?
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Old 19th February 2019, 05:43 AM   #1036
Crossbow
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Plasmas are not from water or wooden.

They are fire/light

http://www.astronomy.com/news/2016/1...ting-from-star

"Fireballs", "cannon fire"

***

Al Jinn

8. ´And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.

9. ´We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.

67:5 We have adorned the lower heaven with lamps, and We made it with projectiles against the devils; and We prepared for them the retribution of the blazing fire.

Saffat

6. We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-

7. (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil

8. (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,

9. Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,

10. Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.

***

lower heaven = our universe


"Görüldüğü üzere atıştan kastedilen ışık/alevdir."
OK, I think that I see what you are driving at, and you are quite wrong.

I do not know if you are aware of this fact or not, but there have been several people overt the years who have made similar arguments here on the Forum before and all of these people were wrong.

In your case, you should be made aware that one cannot establish that a certain book is somehow the product of a Supreme Being simply because a believer in that book uses a creative interpretation to show that the stories in that book were actually predictions about things that happen now.

It just does not work that way because the stories in these books can be so vague and ill-defined, that they can mean just about anything that one wants the stories to mean. This process is well known and it is called 'retro-fitting'.
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Old 19th February 2019, 08:06 AM   #1037
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Science has once again confirmed the Koran. The stars are shooting from the flame/light.
No, science does not say that lightning comes from stars. You have no discernible grip on reality.
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Old 19th February 2019, 08:39 AM   #1038
sackett
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Thankee kindly, Jay

Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
No, science does not say that lightning comes from stars. You have no discernible grip on reality.
That last sentence is good enough for a sig line. It ought to be a great quasher of a put-down in almost any argument. But

we know it won't work on emre.
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Old 19th February 2019, 08:59 AM   #1039
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
There are verses about the lightnings that sometimes they targets non-believers.

But that doesn't always mean the lightning strikes targets them.

And science doesn't care about that. It's just observing the case.


.
I am speaking about thunderballs at there.

Not about plasmas.not about stars.

I think your English or thinking is weak.
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Old 19th February 2019, 10:27 AM   #1040
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I am speaking about thunderballs at there.

Not about plasmas.not about stars.

I think your English or thinking is weak.
Wait, what does a James bond movie have to do with the Koran???

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All joking aside, what, exactly are you referring to by the term "thunderball?"

Are you referring to the nick-name for a mushroom cloud?

Are you referring to ball lighting?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderball
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