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#1081 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,920
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"You may not know anything about the issue but I bet you reckon something. So why not tell us what you reckon? Let us enjoy the full majesty of your uninformed, ad hoc reckon..." David Mitchell |
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#1082 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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Thanks Filippo.
A dramatic illustration of the lengths the RCC will go to to suppress stories like this getting out.
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"Ordered by his superiors to back away or face repercussions" .... Yes that sounds about right. The raped nun and her sister nuns had to hold a public protest for weeks before any action was taken by the Vatican or the police. |
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#1083 |
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg
Posts: 5,495
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The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum. |
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#1084 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 24,312
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Here you go https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/09/w...ia-bishop.html
It was a link in the twitter feed. |
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#1085 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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Wondering about the offending priests, bishops, cardinals and ...... popes next?
Do these guys somehow contrive to see themselves in a state of grace after committing these terrible acts I wonder. Can they somehow self justify what they have done and see themselves as good clergy, with God smiling on them. Alternatively perhaps they have moved beyond that, belief has long since gone and now it is just a job. A job with perks. |
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#1086 |
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg
Posts: 5,495
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Thanks for the link. I have the site "static-ads.twitter.com" in my ad-busting HOSTS file, but for some reason that also prevented the Twitter site from retrieving the picture that usually displays under the tweet. Said picture is also the only part of the page that contains the link! Idiot programmers.
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__________________
The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum. |
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#1087 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,332
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East Timor defrocks Catholic priest after case of Catholic child sexual abuse is confirmed
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#1088 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,144
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__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#1089 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,754
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#1090 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 20,014
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It's not just the Catholics, either. Southern Baptist sex abuse.
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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#1091 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 24,312
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#1092 |
Muse
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin
Posts: 788
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#1093 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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#1094 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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#1095 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,015
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Pretty much, though the Church would say it was the risk that a married priest would bequeath the Church's property to his family.
There were longstanding issues with various Bishoprics and what not essentially becoming heritable within a family who was coincidentally the same as the local nobility. |
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#1096 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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It seems to me the question I ask above is answered to some degree in the testaments given by the clergy in the article linked by Trebuchet below. I get the impression that some thought they were the good guys but victims. Nasty little kids seducing them and such. |
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#1097 |
Muse
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco, California Republic
Posts: 788
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"The Vatican" does not pay priests or bishops. Deacons, priests, bishops, diocesan personnel, etc. are paid by the local diocese. Parish personnel (janitors, professional choirs, school teachers/principals, etc.) are paid by the local parish.
The Catholic Church is not as centralized as many people seem to believe. Financially speaking almost no money from the local churches (i.e. dioceses) makes it way to the Vatican unless there are funding campaigns specifically stipulated for such. These might take the form of a second collection for a particular intention of the Pope, or of a particular dicastery in the Vatican, or in the annual "Peter's Pence". Dioceses might independently send off annual assessments to the Vatican but those monies in turn come from either direct donation to the diocese or from the bishops' annual appeals held at the parish level. In some cases there are small taxes levied by the diocese on the parishes of their weekly offerings (usually something around 5% or less). Point is, when you drop cash into that basket at Sunday Mass the vast majority of it stays at that parish and if any of it indirectly makes its way to Rome it does so at such a negligible rate that we can functionally ignore it in calculations. The vast wealth of the Vatican comes almost entirely from assets, art/cultural patrimony, tourism, real estate, business investments, and the Institute for the Works of Religion (i.e. "the Vatican Bank"). |
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#1098 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,620
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They possibly could abandon celibacy nevertheless. During the early years of the schism between the Roman and Eastern Orthodox churches priestly celibacy was not one of the major issues of conflict, though things that now seem of lesser importance, like the use of leavened bread in the Eucharist, were fought over stubbornly.
Many Eastern rite churches admit married men to the priesthood, while accepting the authority of Rome. It is one of the reforms that Rome might be persuaded to accept, though the struggle to secure it will be long and hard. |
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#1099 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,144
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__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#1100 |
Muse
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco, California Republic
Posts: 788
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Not only do the Eastern Catholic churches admit married men to the priesthood, many of them require men to be married as a condition of ordination (religious priests excluded).
Quote:
After a few years they'll have another synod to assess how the situation is in the Amazon. If all looks good you can then expect all priestly celibacy to be dropped worldwide. Episcopal and religious celibacy isn't likely to ever be rescinded since its history goes back way later in history an is shared by all of the Apostolic churches not just Rome. Anyway, the long awaited Vatican summit on worldwide sex abuse starts tomorrow. I'm not hopeful for much more than a bunch of hand wringing, and perhaps a commission of a commission to be set up to investigate bishops and cardinals... which will of course be answerable to no one besides other bishops and cardinals. In other news, the doctrinal thermostat has been cranked up. The Pope recently returned from a trip to Abu Dhabi in which he met with some prominent Islamic Sheikh and signed a joint declaration that God "wills the diversity of religions." This has caused quite the **** storm among more orthodox Catholics since this clearly is at odds with the Catholic dogma of the unicity of the faith. A few days later Gerhard Cardinal Müller issued a public manifesto denouncing recent confusion in the faith. While he doesn't explicitly name Pope Francis, anyone in the know who has been paying attention to Catholic current events can see that every issue he mentions and then condemns has been a pet doctrinal project of the current pontiff (that divorced and remarried may receive Holy Communion, Protestants may receive Holy Communion, Hell doesn't exist, the souls of the damned simply cease to exist, the death penalty is intrinsically evil, salvation outside of Christianity, etc.) That it was Cardinal Müller who issued this makes it doubly interesting since he is the former Prefect for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. This congregation used to be known as The Holy Office of the Inquisition. Yeah, that inquisition. It's the office responsible for safeguarding the doctrines and dogmata of the faith by investigating heresy and censuring it. This is the closest I think we've ever come to a sitting Cardinal implicitly calling a sitting Pope a heretic! Time to get the popcorn. |
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#1101 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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"God wills the diversity of religions."
What a wonderful proclamation and stepping stone towards harmony between different religious groups. Warms the cockles of my heat it does. Mind you it is somewhat at odds with the idea that Jesus, Mohamed, whatever, are the only way. Some work to do on this yet. ![]() |
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#1102 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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Only just over 2 months until Easter and in the Philippines they will be dusting off the crosses and sharpening the nails soon, in preparation for the crucifixions. It would impress me no end to see Francis stepping up to the plate and trying to stop this barbarism.
Mind you it's a good money spinner as the ghoulish flock to see the spectacle. This could in no small part, be the reason the practice has not been stopped long ago, by any authority. |
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#1103 |
Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 60,332
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#1104 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 20,014
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Married priests won't solve the problem, either. Note the Baptist scandal I linked to upthread. I'd bet pretty much all of those men were married.
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#1105 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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So now we have even more child abuse being claimed. This time in Maris (Catholic) colleges. I think the uprooting of the "Ellis Defence" may have something to do with this. I can picture many Catholic Clergy cowering in their cathedrals waiting for the axe to fall. Have to admit to a touch of schadenfreude here.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-...maris/10807538 |
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#1106 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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#1107 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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#1108 |
Observer of Phenomena
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Location: Location, Location
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#1109 |
Lackey
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#1110 |
Lackey
Administrator
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Location: South East, UK
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And in the “you couldn’t make it up” column, today’s new story “Vatican envoy Luigi Ventura faces sexual assault claim” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47255439
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#1111 |
Illuminator
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#1112 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,776
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Looks like James Reynolds thought pretty much the same thing...or more precisely, exactly the same thing.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45340721 |
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#1113 |
Muse
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco, California Republic
Posts: 788
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I find the Filipino practice of devotional crucifixion to be disgusting, but...
What do you expect Pope Francis to do about this? It's a practice performed by less than 100 people per year in one part of the globe in a church of over a billion people. The bishops of the Philippines without reservation condemn the practice every single year. What more can he or they do? |
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#1114 |
Muse
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco, California Republic
Posts: 788
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Meet the new Roman Camerlengo, His Eminence Kevin Cardinal Farrell.
The Roman Camerlengo is responsible for validating the death of the Pope (via the silver hammer), sealing off his residence and offices, destroying his seal and papal ring, and convoking and presiding over the next papal conclave. During the interregnum the Roman Camerlengo serves as the de facto head of the Catholic Church and the head of state of Vatican City. It's sort of (though not completely) analogous to the position held by a vice president, except the Camerlengo doesn't "finish off" the prior pontiff's term since the term was finished by the very death of said pontiff. As soon as there's white smoke coming from the conclave's chimneys the Camerlengo ceases to be head of the Church/State. Cardinal Farrell is an interesting character. He's the current Prefect of the Dicastery for Laity, Family and Life, a promotion that was given in the midst of the ex-Cardinal, Archbishop McCarrick scandal here in the United States and which was met with considerable shock and disgust. Cardinal Farrell was once the six-year roommate of Archbishop McCarrick and he swears to this day that he had no idea McCarrick was raping post-pubescent boys and taking adult seminarians to his bed. Cardinal Farrell also once served five years under disgraced Marcial Maciel, who was the Mexican priest who started the religious order "Legionaries of Christ", raped dozens of individuals under his care, fathered children despite his vows of celibacy and went on to rape two of his own biological sons. Cardinal Farrell, again, swears he knew nothing of Fr. Maciel's improprieties. While Cardinal Farrell was the bishop of Dallas he infamously dismissed a case of priestly rape against a male altar server because the server was 17 at the time and so was of the age to consent to sex. I **** you not. Let's recap: In the same week leading up to the Vatican summit on worldwide sex abuse, a summit that was the raison d'etre for Pope Francis unilaterally stepping in to the American bishops' November summit in Baltimore and telling them they are forbidden from voting on any binding or non-binding resolutions addressing sex abuse in the American clergy, we have the Vatican leaking info about the ***possible*** defrocking of McCarrick (which of course was met with great jubilation by the papolaters of the Church) as what appears to anyone with half a brain as a PR stunt, and then one of like 5 American prelates with the most blood on his hands is named the ******* Camerlengo of the Catholic Church. You SERIOUSLY can't make this **** up. |
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#1116 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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Well yes I can see more that can be done now that you ask. A few bleating bishops is not much of a response I think. These deluded Catholic dudes need to hear it straight from the head man. Francis should rock up there in his popemobile and give it to them straight...... "Look you guys, I'm the head of this outfit and I'm telling you this cross hanging **** is not on." (He could bring along a bit of muscle, like a couple of those guards from the Vatican in their daggy dress.) |
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#1117 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,435
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Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#1118 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 4,549
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The first time a Cardinal has been defrocked they report. Not only losing his red cap and frock but his priesthood as well! We are still waiting to see what further moves are to be made about Pell. One has to wonder about the not so penetrating insight, popes have shown in appointing these guys to their elevated status. Sure it could be argued they make these decisions when not sitting in the infallible chair, but then again we can ask, why wouldn't they use this facility they have been given? |
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#1119 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,435
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__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#1120 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,620
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