|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
View Poll Results: Which nation is currently the most #$%@ed up? |
America: Shutdowns, walls, investigations, arrests. | 10 | 19.61% | |
Britain: Brexit, hard or soft or maybe another referendum, let's try not to think too hard about the Irish border issue | 15 | 29.41% | |
Venezuela: Hyperinflation, weight loss, loss of international recognition, flight of educated classes | 18 | 35.29% | |
Belgium: Government falls | 0 | 0% | |
France: Yellow vest protests | 0 | 0% | |
Effed up nation of your choice | 8 | 15.69% | |
It's all good, nothing is wrong. | 0 | 0% | |
On Planet X and in Germany, things are functioning really pretty well right now. | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll |
30th January 2019, 12:48 PM | #1 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,718
|
Poll: Which nation currently has the most #$%@ed up politics?
America: We Yanks have Donald Trump. Investigation, prosecution of multiple associates of the President, regular lying, revolving staff doors. Government shutdown, wall that is not a wall. We're a mess.
Great Britain: Brexit "We're totally not going to leave without a negotiated agreement in place but won't actually negotiate an agreement that gets accepted by the British public or the EU, and we totally that the "Will of the people" means doing something that the majority no longer want to do." Belgium: Somehow still exists as a nation, much to the consternation of many American conservatives (George Will has spent decades predicting the immanent demise of Belgium). I'm not fully up to speed on that, but it has it's own thread. Belgian Government Falls. Venezuela: Hyperinflation, many nations not recognizing Maduro any longer. Mass weight loss due to food shortages. Educated people leaving in droves as refugees. France: Yellow vest protests shutting things down. Unfortunate tolerance of antisemitism amongst the protesters. Any others? ETA: I started this thread because every time I think that the current state of American politics couldn't get much worse, I just open the Brexit thread and find out that the UK is even worse off right now. It's like we are in a rivalry to have the most disastrous and ineffectual political situations. |
30th January 2019, 12:54 PM | #2 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
Somalia - though it in many ways barely counts as a nation since it's Government barely controls anything outside Mogadishu.
Syria - Enough said. Yemen - pretty much Syria II |
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
30th January 2019, 12:55 PM | #3 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mexico
Posts: 3,332
|
Any African nations with a warlord dictator and a thousand scared villages. There are a few of those.
|
30th January 2019, 01:01 PM | #4 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,718
|
These are good points. Afghanistan falls into that category as well. I was thinking a bit more along the lines of nations that are usually somewhat stable and relatively prosperous - although Venezuela doesn't quite meet that standard.
We're at a point where the nations that are traditionally thought of stable world leaders are really just flailing. |
30th January 2019, 01:03 PM | #5 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,296
|
I reckon Turkey should get a look in there as well, with their Prez seeming intent on becoming emperor for life.
|
__________________
What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it.... |
|
30th January 2019, 01:12 PM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
|
For me it was a tough choice between the USA and the UK. But when I contempt the disaster of Brexit I have to give the nod to the latter.
|
30th January 2019, 01:23 PM | #7 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,109
|
My criteria is how many people in the country are affected. Therefore, while I agree that Somalia is seriously #$%@ed up politically, I voted for America due to its much larger population (325 billion vs 15 billion).
However, even ignoring population, depending on what you consider to be '#$%@ed up' there are many other candidates which may be more deserving. Many consider that any form of democracy (no matter how flawed) is better than an absolute monarchy or theocracy. By that criteria Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Vatican City and Tonga (to name just a few) are worse than Somalia. |
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
|
30th January 2019, 01:46 PM | #8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,109
|
Not for the first time. I remember them flailing in the 70's, and the 80's, and the 90's, and... in fact most countries are 'flailing' most of the time. But that's not the same as '#$%@ed up'.
Quote:
In comparison the US is much more #$%@ed up than the UK, since that's how our government has been operating for the past few years. |
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
|
30th January 2019, 01:54 PM | #9 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
|
|
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
|
30th January 2019, 01:56 PM | #10 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 31,398
|
|
__________________
"There ain't half been some clever bastards" - Ian Dury |
|
30th January 2019, 02:03 PM | #11 |
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
|
That's just the media. Nothing has changed. Nobody is panicking, the economy is growing, employment is at a record high, things are great. I've literally not heard BREXIT even mentioned for years outside of the TV*.
Venezuela, on the other hand, is a failed state, bodies lie in the streets, the country is ravaged by violence and drugs, the government has collapsed, the population has a choice of starve or leave or be murdered, the schools are shut down, healthcare no longer exists and disease is epidemic. * Not quite true, my father recently said that the airport drone shutdowns were practice-runs for what will happen after BREXIT. He's getting old. |
30th January 2019, 02:08 PM | #12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
|
|
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
|
30th January 2019, 02:15 PM | #13 |
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
|
|
30th January 2019, 02:19 PM | #14 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
Planet X is actually the worst.
|
30th January 2019, 03:56 PM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
|
List not nearly big enough. I voted for Venezuela, though.
|
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
|
30th January 2019, 03:58 PM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
|
|
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
|
30th January 2019, 04:18 PM | #17 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,718
|
Or the list is too big. In my head, I was thinking of nations whose political situations have deteriorated. Russian politics don't seem much worse than normal for Russian standards.
I should have just listed the U.S. and U.K., and they seem to be the contenders for moving the most from relative stability and sanity into relative political chaos. I've got to think these things through better before posting. |
30th January 2019, 08:03 PM | #18 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,806
|
Australia. Just that we don't give a ****. In fact we have never given a ****.
|
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
|
30th January 2019, 08:59 PM | #19 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 87,212
|
Australia barely rates a mention in this thread. Sure, our government is the only major developed nation actively increasing its investment in coal-fired power. Sure, the government is plagued by desertion and disillusionment and will crash and burn so hard in the next election it'll be possible to read on the moon by the light of the fire. Sure, the government defines "employment" as "1 or more hours per week" and is therefore able to post record low unemployment figures. But at least we have a government. So, hey.
|
__________________
So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
|
30th January 2019, 09:01 PM | #20 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,806
|
|
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
|
30th January 2019, 09:05 PM | #21 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 87,212
|
|
__________________
So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
|
30th January 2019, 09:45 PM | #22 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
|
I'm thinking Libya or Yemen, but I really don't have enough info on all the various extreme hellholes currently hosting the worst mass suffering in all its various forms to say for sure.
|
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan |
|
30th January 2019, 09:53 PM | #23 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
|
|
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan |
|
30th January 2019, 09:54 PM | #24 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 46,327
|
|
__________________
We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
|
30th January 2019, 10:06 PM | #25 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
|
Syria and Somalia because they are failed states.
|
30th January 2019, 10:23 PM | #26 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 87,212
|
|
__________________
So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
|
30th January 2019, 10:46 PM | #27 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 3,377
|
India
|
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon |
|
30th January 2019, 10:59 PM | #28 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,552
|
Russia.
Putin is losing popularity, failing to deliver the prosperity he promised. So the only path now is more oppression. |
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
30th January 2019, 11:17 PM | #29 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
Well then you might as well remove Belgium too, we regularly overthrow our government, like once a decade or so. If anything this particular government took a long time to fall, it was inches away from falling just a few months after it started in 2014 due to massive strikes, and again in 2016 due to another strike wave, before finally falling last month.
|
31st January 2019, 01:02 AM | #30 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 46,327
|
|
__________________
We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
|
31st January 2019, 03:11 AM | #31 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
|
|
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan |
|
31st January 2019, 03:17 AM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
|
Your gov was...down... in 2010, too, right? When that libertarian British guy called Belgium "pretty much a non-country" in the European Parliament?
|
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan |
|
31st January 2019, 04:08 AM | #33 |
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
|
It's a tough choice, but Saudi Arabia gets my vote too.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ndparents.html |
31st January 2019, 04:53 AM | #34 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,552
|
|
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
31st January 2019, 05:58 AM | #35 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
|
What does that link have to do with overall living conditions in Russia?
Do you think this is telling about conditions in the US? https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94713&page=1 |
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan |
|
31st January 2019, 06:00 AM | #36 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,632
|
|
__________________
"We are enjoined, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, to consider ourselves and our cultural institutions scientifically — not to accept uncritically whatever we’re told; to surmount as best we can our hopes, conceits, and unexamined beliefs; to view ourselves as we really are." - Carl Sagan |
|
31st January 2019, 06:04 AM | #37 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,552
|
Yeah, Yemen is really, really bad, definitely worse than Russia.
|
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
31st January 2019, 01:48 PM | #38 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,725
|
North Korea deserves a mention. I've been waiting for the regime to crumble there for decades.
|
31st January 2019, 01:51 PM | #39 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
|
31st January 2019, 01:56 PM | #40 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
I'd hardly call this tolerance (and there are plenty, plenty more where that came from). Perhaps it would be better not to get one's information from corporate publications with a vested interest in discrediting such movements.
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|