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Tags 2016 elections , Clinton controversies , hillary clinton , James Comey , presidential candidates

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Old 14th December 2016, 04:59 AM   #2481
The Great Zaganza
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Most Conservatives dislike Trump: his only saving grace was that he wasn't Clinton. Without her, there is nothing left for them, certainly not their candidate...
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Old 14th December 2016, 05:40 AM   #2482
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I agree it was all Hillary's fault.
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Old 14th December 2016, 08:00 AM   #2483
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I think it has nothing to do with this thread.

I assume there is another thread about that?
That's why I asked if you were for real. I just can't understand how someone could look at these events surrounding our elections and believe that the thing to come away angry about is a purely partisan and contrived "gotcha".

The United States has real enemies. If you are a US citizen and a patriot, those enemies are your enemies. If those enemies are interfering with our elections, to me, it seems like a good idea to set aside partisanship and deal with the external threat.
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Old 14th December 2016, 10:37 AM   #2484
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
That's why I asked if you were for real. I just can't understand how someone could look at these events surrounding our elections and believe that the thing to come away angry about is a purely partisan and contrived "gotcha".

The United States has real enemies. If you are a US citizen and a patriot, those enemies are your enemies. If those enemies are interfering with our elections, to me, it seems like a good idea to set aside partisanship and deal with the external threat.
So.... there is not another thread about them then?

Huh.
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Old 14th December 2016, 11:07 AM   #2485
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
So.... there is not another thread about them then?

Huh.
Are you trying to claim that the Russian hacking and leaks about and against Clinton are not relevant to Clinton being done?
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Old 14th December 2016, 11:30 AM   #2486
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Are you trying to claim that the Russian hacking and leaks about and against Clinton are not relevant to Clinton being done?
I am simply asking if there is another thread on this, it would surprise me if there were not.

If not, I can see that this thread would not be inappropriate to discuss the issue.
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Old 14th December 2016, 11:59 AM   #2487
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I am simply asking if there is another thread on this, it would surprise me if there were not.

If not, I can see that this thread would not be inappropriate to discuss the issue.
If you are curious, find one, don't let me stop you. Of course, whether or not there is one, the actions taken by the Russians to stop Clinton are on topic in a thread about Clinton being done.

Eta: we may be saying the same thing, here. The triple negative can be difficult to parse.

Last edited by wareyin; 14th December 2016 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:11 PM   #2488
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
If you are curious, find one, don't let me stop you. Of course, whether or not there is one, the actions taken by the Russians to stop Clinton are on topic in a thread about Clinton being done.

Eta: we may be saying the same thing, here. The triple negative can be difficult to parse.
Not inappropriate, but not ideal, because it would appear to involve broader issues than than merely Hillary Clinton.
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:20 PM   #2489
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Not inappropriate, but not ideal, because it would appear to involve broader issues than than merely Hillary Clinton.
But clearly topical as Clinton and a big reason why she's done are the focus of the conversation.
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:49 PM   #2490
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
So.... there is not another thread about them then?

Huh.
I don't know. My question for you is how these allegations influence you. Do you really think the biggest takeaway from the news is, "Ah-hah! Now we can call Democrats hypocrites!!1!"? Because I really think the issue of Russian influence is more pressing.
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Old 14th December 2016, 01:55 PM   #2491
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I don't know. My question for you is how these allegations influence you. Do you really think the biggest takeaway from the news is, "Ah-hah! Now we can call Democrats hypocrites!!1!"? Because I really think the issue of Russian influence is more pressing.
so start a thread on it
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Old 14th December 2016, 04:58 PM   #2492
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
What do you think about the Russian government interfering with our elections?
Not as bad as hillary and her band of minions trying to get electors to vote for her?
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Old 14th December 2016, 07:56 PM   #2493
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Not as bad as hillary and her band of minions trying to get electors to vote for her?
You can't be serious.

Quote:
[ QUOTE=logger;
Oh.
Nevermind.
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Old 14th December 2016, 08:13 PM   #2494
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
You can't be serious.



Oh.
Nevermind.
Mind boggling, isn't it? Russia was our worst enemy for over half a century. Conservative hero Reagan is famous for his 'Gorbachev, tear down that wall' speech, even Romney said Russia was our number one threat last election. Yet somehow, Conservatives don't care that they interfered with our election?
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Old 14th December 2016, 08:17 PM   #2495
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
... Yet somehow, Conservatives don't care that they interfered with our election?
That's because they hate America
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Old 14th December 2016, 11:49 PM   #2496
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
... Yet somehow, Conservatives don't care that they interfered with our election?
That's because they hate America

Not even that.

It's because their "patriotism", their 'love of country" is and always has been just a tool. A pretense. A mask that they would wear while they were trying to get their way. We'd see glimmerings of this from time to time as the mask slipped a little bit.

Now that they've gotten what they want the mask is off.

They don't need to pretend any more.

Welcome to the new conservatives. Their greed and venality on display for all to see.
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:23 AM   #2497
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Slings, Clinton lost. You can stop campaigning against her now.
He is nothing without Hillary.
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Old 15th December 2016, 08:47 AM   #2498
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Clinton lost.

"I like the sound, I like the sound of that
Mmm mmm mmm
I like the sound, I like the sound of that..."

-- Rascal Flatts (Track no. 8 from "Rewind")
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Old 4th January 2017, 08:27 AM   #2499
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
"I like the sound, I like the sound of that
Mmm mmm mmm
I like the sound, I like the sound of that..."

-- Rascal Flatts (Track no. 8 from "Rewind")
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Old 10th January 2017, 12:58 AM   #2500
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Quote:
Chaffetz Vows to Continue Investigation Into Clinton Emails

The chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee on Monday vowed to continue the investigation into Hillary Clinton's private email server despite the former secretary of state's defeat in the 2016 presidential election.

"Just because there was a political election doesn't mean it goes away, so of course I am going to continue to pursue that," Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, told reporters.

Chaffetz called finishing the investigation into Clinton one of his top priorities for the committee.

Read more:
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/poli...emails-n704926 (January 9, 2017)

I like the sound of that!

In other news, Gary LeVox (Rascal Flatts' lead vocalist) will be performing at the inauguration celebration. Here

Last edited by Slings and Arrows; 10th January 2017 at 01:07 AM.
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Old 10th January 2017, 05:48 PM   #2501
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So Democrats can be criticized until the cows come home but Republicans are untouchable gods?

No. Just, no.
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Old 11th January 2017, 12:04 PM   #2502
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
He is nothing without Hillary.
Well, it is the Hillary thread, after all.
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Old 11th January 2017, 01:58 PM   #2503
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Most Conservatives dislike Trump: his only saving grace was that he wasn't Clinton. Without her, there is nothing left for them, certainly not their candidate...
That does not say much for Clinton. How did she lose to such a bad guy?

I mean geez, she had the FBI, the media, Donna Brazile, blacks, women, minorities (including black women minorities) illegals, The Daily Show. Pretty much the totality of Hollywood.

She had the Prez himself campaigning feverishly for her. Loretta Lynch, the DNC conspiring against Bernie.

The Mexican Prez was pissed at Trump, even newspapers that are historically conservative went with Clinton. Many Republicans distanced themselves as well.

People protesting and getting violent, making noise, burning flags, owning Facebook.

Who did Trump have on his side - the Russians? His big mouth talking himself into a deeper hole every day? Trump was his own worst enemy! The tapes of him saying stuff about women....dude.

Yet Clinton still couldn't beat Trump. I wish the whiners out there would think about this. How could you possibly lose to this guy?

If Trump is so obviously horrendous, how could he have won under such odds?

The Democrats are just as responsible for Trump, if not more so, for propping up such a profoundly bad candidate. It's like showing up to a football game with one player and then complaining when you lose.

Trump did not win - you (whoever) lost. This may go down as the single worst campaign in history - "the woman who couldn't even beat Trump".

Hello...protesters and Meryl Streep ...you lost to TRUMP. Therefore, YOU must have done something very wrong. VERY wrong. You idiots should be protesting yourselves.

You ruined Obama's legacy. He even said a vote against Hillary is an insult to him.

Trump is now Obama's legacy.

ETA:
Hillary is done.

Last edited by mgidm86; 11th January 2017 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 11th January 2017, 03:15 PM   #2504
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
That does not say much for Clinton. How did she lose to such a bad guy?

I mean geez, she had the FBI, the media, Donna Brazile, blacks, women, minorities (including black women minorities) illegals, The Daily Show. Pretty much the totality of Hollywood.
....
Clinton certainly didn't have the FBI, especially considering that we now know --- but didn't know then -- that the FBI was investigating allegations against Trump and his staff before the election. And considering how long the media gave Trump a free ride, it's hard to claim she had the media too. Hillary made a lot of mistakes, but she had a lot of help losing.
http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017...inton-campaign

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Old 11th January 2017, 03:54 PM   #2505
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She still wound up with almost three million more votes than the 'winner.' It's the strangest election in U.S. history, I don't think anyone questions that.
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Old 14th January 2017, 12:59 AM   #2506
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Quote:
Hillary Clinton's Server Continues to Haunt Her

Last Sunday evening the FBI posted on its website more than 300 emails that Clinton had sent to an unnamed colleague not in the government -- no doubt her adviser Sid Blumenthal -- that had fallen into the hands of foreign powers. It turns out -- and the Sunday night release proves this -- that Blumenthal was hacked by intelligence agents from at least three foreign governments and that they obtained the emails Clinton had sent to him that contained state secrets. Sources believe that the hostile hackers were the Russians and the Chinese and the friendly hackers were the Israelis.

Last Sunday's revelations make the case against Clinton far more serious than Comey presented it to be last summer. One of the metrics that the DOJ examines in deciding whether to prosecute is an analysis of harm caused by the potential defendant. It is clear from the FBI analysis of them that real secrets were exposed by the nation's chief diplomat -- meaning she violated an agreement she signed right after she took office.

Should Clinton skate free so the Trump administration can turn the page? Of course not. She should be prosecuted as would anyone else who let loose secrets to our enemies and then lied about it.

Read more:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ck_132760.html (January 12, 2017)

You could argue that the emails found on Anthony Weiner's laptop caused no harm, and can be dismissed as "extremely careless", as James Comey put it.

However, if the Russians and Chinese got hold of them, then it's a clear cut case of "gross negligence" -- a felony, punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

#LockHerUp
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Old 14th January 2017, 01:20 AM   #2507
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
You could argue that the emails found on Anthony Weiner's laptop caused no harm, and can be dismissed as "extremely careless", as James Comey put it.

However, if the Russians and Chinese got hold of them, then it's a clear cut case of "gross negligence" -- a felony, punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

#LockHerUp
Is that how Putin does it? I'm more familiar with the American legal system.
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Old 14th January 2017, 01:22 AM   #2508
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Most Conservatives dislike Trump: his only saving grace was that he wasn't Clinton. Without her, there is nothing left for them, certainly not their candidate...

I agree with this. I was a never Trumper and voted for a write-in candidate this election. But I understand where those conservatives that voted for Trump just because they believed that he was better than Clinton were coming from. I disagree, I think they both suck pretty evenly, but I at least understand. Those Republicans that supported Trump during the primaries and thought that he was a good candidate and thought he would be a good President I don't understand at all.
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Old 14th January 2017, 01:38 AM   #2509
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
If Trump is so obviously horrendous, how could he have won under such odds?
Considering that Trump won by demagoguery and character assassination, one disturbing answer is that, as a nation, we have become too ignorant, misinformed, and fearful to govern ourselves rationally.
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Old 14th January 2017, 01:41 AM   #2510
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
She still wound up with almost three million more votes than the 'winner.' It's the strangest election in U.S. history, I don't think anyone questions that.

That'll be the refrain for every Republican winner going forward. No sane Republican will waste resources trying to put California in play and Clinton's entire margin of victory in the popular vote total came from California.

But as has been pointed out before, it doesn't really matter. One, of course, we have an Electoral College so the overall popular vote total has never determined the winner of our presidential elections. And two, who knows what the result would have been if it had been decided by an overall popular vote? How many millions of Republicans in California, New York, or Massachusetts would have voted if they believed that their votes would have actually mattered? On the flip side, how many Democrats in places like Texas and Georgia stayed home since their votes effectively didn't count? There's no way to tell, especially when you take into account that both candidates would have been campaigning in "unwinnable" states if they were going for total votes, instead of completely disregarding states where they had no chance of winning.
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Old 14th January 2017, 05:34 AM   #2511
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Is that how Putin does it? I'm more familiar with the American legal system.

US Code 18, Section 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information:
Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
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Old 14th January 2017, 06:25 AM   #2512
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
US Code 18, Section 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information:
Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
Two very good episodes of the "Opening Arguments" podcast on the Hillary email situation. Highly recommended.
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Old 14th January 2017, 06:57 AM   #2513
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Two very good episodes of the "Opening Arguments" podcast on the Hillary email situation. Highly recommended.

Would love to listen to them. Will you please give us the links to these podcasts? Thanks!
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Old 14th January 2017, 08:44 AM   #2514
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
US Code 18, Section 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information:
Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
Yeah, but unlike Putin's system, in the American system, we don't go from allegations against political enemies to "lock her up." If you can prove that's what happened and that it meets the legal definition of "gross negligence" then I think there are some Trump fans in the FBI who would love to hear from you.
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Old 14th January 2017, 09:53 AM   #2515
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Yeah, but unlike Putin's system, in the American system, we don't go from allegations against political enemies to "lock her up." If you can prove that's what happened and that it meets the legal definition of "gross negligence" then I think there are some Trump fans in the FBI who would love to hear from you.

#LockHerUp is merely the name of a popular Twitter thread that has been discussing this issue for the last year or so. It is not a call to implement "Putin's system" of justice.

And it's not my job to prove anything -- that's Jeff Sessions job. But since he has vowed to recuse himself, an independent special prosecutor will be given the task.
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Old 14th January 2017, 10:11 AM   #2516
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Originally Posted by realclearpolitics
It turns out -- and the Sunday night release proves this -- that Blumenthal was hacked by intelligence agents from at least three foreign governments and that they obtained the emails Clinton had sent to him that contained state secrets. Sources believe that the hostile hackers were the Russians and the Chinese and the friendly hackers were the Israelis.

Thank you, "real clear politics". Nomen est omen.
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Old 14th January 2017, 03:27 PM   #2517
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
Would love to listen to them. Will you please give us the links to these podcasts? Thanks!
Google "Opening Arguments podcast".

It should be the first hit.
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Old 17th January 2017, 11:24 AM   #2518
applecorped
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Is Hillary Done yet ?
Yup
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Old 17th January 2017, 11:32 AM   #2519
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post

I agree
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Old 17th January 2017, 12:42 PM   #2520
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
The law that you people keep citing was passed in 1948 and refers specifically to physically possessing and mishandling a physical object. There is grave doubt about whether it could even be applied to modern electronic communications. And "gross negligence" requires a level of willful disregard for the law that would be impossible to prove, especially after the defense brought in testimony about how Colin Powell and the Bush-Cheney White house handled their emails. Clinton did some dumb stuff because she thought it would give her a political advantage. That might be enough for some people to vote against her, but it's not something that can be prosecuted under spy laws.
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