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Tags donald trump , internet incidents , Trump controversies , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 11th January 2017, 06:00 AM   #681
BobTheCoward
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Is Trump the biggest moron on the planet?

His tweet today, "Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to "leak" into the public. One last shot at me.Are we living in Nazi Germany?"


These are not classified documents. They are documents made by a private citizen as part of a financial deal. It would be really weird if intelligence agencies had the ability to stop it.
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:04 AM   #682
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Not fake news. The media is not saying the info is true. The documents are news worthy as they have had multiple mentions in committees and briefings.
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:06 AM   #683
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All I can say is that he has some going to beat our Prime Minister having sex with a dead Pig's head.
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:14 AM   #684
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Wow!

It is starting to come out that the Trump Campaign was indeed in collusion with the Russians over the hacking into the Democrats. As such, Trump may end up as the first President to be impeached and thrown out of office during his first year in office.

I cannot say that I am surprised considering how much Trump tried to emulate 1972 Nixon campaign.
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:17 AM   #685
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Wow!

It is starting to come out that the Trump Campaign was indeed in collusion with the Russians over the hacking into the Democrats. As such, Trump may end up as the first President to be impeached and thrown out of office during his first year in office.

I cannot say that I am surprised considering how much Trump tried to emulate 1972 Nixon campaign.
If by "starting to come out" you mean "no decent evidence" then sure
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:24 AM   #686
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You just linked to a "report" written by Tyler Durden.
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:26 AM   #687
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I'm not answering yours until you answer mine.
I asked first, if you want to play that silly game. Your question is irrelevant. That some people sense corruption doesn't mean that the corruption exists, or that it applies to a completely different agency. You're appealing to popularity.

Quote:
Did I use the word knowing?
You stated that the "community" was corrupt as a statement of fact. That presupposes knowledge, unless you now want to argue that you pulled that from your nether regions.

I also find it ironic that you try to go the "plausible deniability" route after so much railing against the government for engaging in such shady behaviours.
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:37 AM   #688
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If by "starting to come out" you mean "no decent evidence" then sure
That is about the same thing people used to say about Nixon in the first several months after the Watergate break-in and yet look where that ended.
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:40 AM   #689
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
That is about the same thing people used to say about Nixon in the first several months after the Watergate break-in and yet look where that ended.
And those people were wrong to say those things then, also.
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:42 AM   #690
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And those people were wrong to say those things then, also.
Like hell they were.
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:50 AM   #691
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Like hell they were.
Non skeptical thinkers will be right sometimes. That doesn't mean their approach is reasonable.
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Old 11th January 2017, 06:59 AM   #692
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I think there should be a sequence of protracted congressional investigations stretching on for years.

Fairs fair.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:11 AM   #693
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Non skeptical thinkers will be right sometimes. That doesn't mean their approach is reasonable.
This makes about as much sense as your claims that torture can be made legal in the USA.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:15 AM   #694
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I think there should be a sequence of protracted congressional investigations stretching on for years.

Fairs fair.
the important thing is to never let the congressional investigations stop, even long after Trump has left the White House.
For as long as there is a GOP, the investigation has to continue, summoning to the stand every Republican who might consider running for President.

After all, didn't everyone say that Democrats need to learn from their mistakes?
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:17 AM   #695
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
This makes about as much sense as your claims that torture can be made legal in the USA.
All it takes is a constitutional amendment.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:17 AM   #696
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
This makes about as much sense as your claims that torture can be made legal in the USA.
You never replied after I quoted back to you where you said the court would overturn the precedent set by the head money cases.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:18 AM   #697
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
All it takes is a constitutional amendment.
It wouldn't require an amendment. Congress can authorize torture in war under certain circumstances. The bill of rights are not universally extended to enemies on the battlefield.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:20 AM   #698
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It wouldn't require an amendment. Congress can authorize torture in war under certain circumstances.
I did not know that, if true.

Quote:
The bill of rights are not universally extended to enemies on the battlefield.
I'm pretty sure torturing enemies on the battlefield is a terrible idea. You should at least wait until you're back at the base.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:22 AM   #699
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I did not know that, if true.



I'm pretty sure torturing enemies on the battlefield is a terrible idea. You should at least wait until you're back at the base.
The Geneva Convention, of which the US is a signatory, prohibits torture of enemies, so Bob is still wrong.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:27 AM   #700
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You don't think that having an impossible burden of proof is unreasonable?
If the burden of proof is impossible, perhaps one should remain uncertain on the claim rather than proclaim, "It is impossible to prove, therefore must be assumed to be true!"

There is also the myth that negative claims[1] generally are unprovable, although some may well be.

[1] What people call negative claims are really better described as universal claims: For all x, Px. Not a single person thinks it is impossible to prove, "This is not a pipe."
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:33 AM   #701
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The Geneva Convention, of which the US is a signatory, prohibits torture of enemies, so Bob is still wrong.
This gets back to to the head money cases and the very argument I had with crossbow. Since those cases in 1884, it has been absolutely clear that treaties never have supremecy over future federal law. The most recent law applies. So, if Congress authorizes as I said, that nullifies the Geneva convention as a matter of US law.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 11th January 2017 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:40 AM   #702
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Is Trump the biggest moron on the planet?

His tweet today, "Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to "leak" into the public. One last shot at me.Are we living in Nazi Germany?"


These are not classified documents. They are documents made by a private citizen as part of a financial deal. It would be really weird if intelligence agencies had the ability to stop it.
In Nazi Germany, they would have.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:42 AM   #703
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You never replied after I quoted back to you where you said the court would overturn the precedent set by the head money cases.
You are wrong again.

I did reply to you on that point and I never say that the court would overturn the head money case.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:44 AM   #704
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It wouldn't require an amendment. Congress can authorize torture in war under certain circumstances. The bill of rights are not universally extended to enemies on the battlefield.
You are wrong again.

The USA is a signatory to treaties that prohibit torture and there is now a law which actually does forbid the USA to torture detainees.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:49 AM   #705
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
You are wrong again.

The USA is a signatory to treaties that prohibit torture and there is now a law which actually does forbid the USA to torture detainees.
We had the following discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And you think the lack of preeminence of treaties is something courts might reverse?
If the court was deciding the issue of making torture legal, then "Yes!" I would definitely expect the court to rule against such a law regardless of any other previous rulings.

Just as the court did with abortion, gay marriage, civil rights, and numerous other cases.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:52 AM   #706
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
You are wrong again.

The USA is a signatory to treaties that prohibit torture and there is now a law which actually does forbid the USA to torture detainees.
In the post you are quoting, I made specific reference to the process of withdrawing from the Geneva convention. You can argue about the process of doing that and if my description is sound, but you cannot make the argument I didn't factor that in.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:56 AM   #707
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
We had the following discussion
So genius ...

Tell me where I said that the Supreme Court was going to overturn the head money case.

And just in case it slipped your keen eye for detail, since the Supreme Court is not reviewing the head money case, therefore the Supreme Court cannot overturn the head money case.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:59 AM   #708
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
If the burden of proof is impossible, perhaps one should remain uncertain on the claim rather than proclaim, "It is impossible to prove, therefore must be assumed to be true!"
We'll have to agree to disagree, because the null hypothesis, as far as I understand it, has always been and will always be the not-positive one. If you claim god exists, and you can't prove it, I'm more than justified in my conclusion that he doesn't.
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Old 11th January 2017, 07:59 AM   #709
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
In the post you are quoting, I made specific reference to the process of withdrawing from the Geneva convention. You can argue about the process of doing that and if my description is sound, but you cannot make the argument I didn't factor that in.
There are other treaties and other laws which forbid torture besides the Geneva Conventions.

So even if the USA were to withdraw from the Geneva Conventions, which is so unlikely as to be impossible, then such a withdrawal would still not sustain your nonsense argument.

And I already told you about that as well.
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:00 AM   #710
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The Geneva Convention, of which the US is a signatory, prohibits torture of enemies, so Bob is still wrong.
Out of curiosity: could the US withdraw from the convention?
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:02 AM   #711
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Out of curiosity: could the US withdraw from the convention?
I suppose it could. It's highly unlikely, though. Much more so than a constitutional amendment.

That said, international law still applies. It would be a war crime to torture prisoners.
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:06 AM   #712
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
So genius ...

Tell me where I said that the Supreme Court was going to overturn the head money case.

And just in case it slipped your keen eye for detail, since the Supreme Court is not reviewing the head money case, therefore the Supreme Court cannot overturn the head money case.
I leave this here for our peers to assess the credibility of our arguments on what we said a year ago.
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:08 AM   #713
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
There are other treaties and other laws which forbid torture besides the Geneva Conventions.

So even if the USA were to withdraw from the Geneva Conventions, which is so unlikely as to be impossible, then such a withdrawal would still not sustain your nonsense argument.

And I already told you about that as well.
All those restrictions would be replaced by a new law simply authorizing torture.
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:24 AM   #714
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Out of curiosity: could the US withdraw from the convention?
Sure could.

Since treaties are ratified by the congress and signed by the president, then all that congress has to do is enact a law that states withdrawal from the treaty and have the president sign off on it.
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:26 AM   #715
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Wouldn't that be something? Hm.
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:28 AM   #716
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I leave this here for our peers to assess the credibility of our arguments on what we said a year ago.
In other words, you cannot support your often stated wrong statements because you actually did make wrong statements.

A decent person would simply admit he was mistaken. But then again, no decent person would advocate torture either.
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:30 AM   #717
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
All those restrictions would be replaced by a new law simply authorizing torture.
If you can ever figure out just what it is that you are talking about, then kindly let the rest of know.
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:31 AM   #718
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Wouldn't that be something? Hm.
That is about as likely as me winning the big lottery prize when I have not bought a ticket for the last several years.
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:32 AM   #719
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
All those restrictions would be replaced by a new law simply authorizing torture.
Are you aware that constitutional amendments and treaties are made in order to prevent such laws from ever coming into effects? Such a law wouldn't pass SCOTUS.
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Old 11th January 2017, 08:40 AM   #720
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Are you aware that constitutional amendments and treaties are made in order to prevent such laws from ever coming into effects? Such a law wouldn't pass SCOTUS.
I said about the same thing to him some time ago and failed to comprehend that basic fact.

Hopefully, you will be more successful.
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On 04 JAN 2017 Paul Bethke said that he is more powerful than his god: "... Even Yahweh has up to this day failed to accomplish his will on earth, so I will take his failure and bring about success. So do carry on in your floundering." http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post11654315

A man's best friend is his dogma.
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