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Tags 2016 election results , 2016 elections , donald trump , Trump controversies

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Old 8th November 2016, 10:24 PM   #1
Puppycow
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President Trump

There, I said it.

Some market reactions so far: S&P futures off 5%. Oil down over 3%, gold up almost 5%, dollar down almost 4% against the yen but up against some other currencies. Mexican peso down almost 12% against the dollar. "Markets are Plunging around the World" says Bloomberg headline. The Nikkei is off 5%, the FTSE (futures) almost 5%. Maybe these are overreactions?

(The following is a re-post from another thread)
Saw this in the New York Times:

Why I Am Voting for Trump

(Just an excerpt)

Quote:
But, yes, issues. This economy is bumping along the bottom with less than 2 percent annual growth for the past eight years. Mrs. Clinton, like many of my friends, has no idea how important economic growth is to the strength and vitality of our country. Mr. Trump vows to build the Keystone pipeline, curb regulations that strangle businesses and cut taxes to unleash the economy. Mrs. Clinton will do the opposite.

I’m a former elected member of the Hoboken, N.J., school board, and I write about education issues for Forbes.com. The public teachers unions have given Mrs. Clinton huge donations as a way to protect their near monopoly. In return, she has said virtually nothing about K-12 education. Mr. Trump’s comprehensive plan for reallocating federal funds would be a boon to school-choice initiatives.

He wants to put constitutionalists on the Supreme Court; she doesn’t. She will double down on the debacle of Obamacare; he will dismantle it. He wants to rip up trade agreements, and he’s completely wrong on that. But Mrs. Clinton now says she is also opposed to a new trade deal with Asian countries. The Republicans in Congress might be able to bring Mr. Trump around. But Mrs. Clinton will be under intense pressure from the left to remain anti-trade.
Hmm, she's voting for Trump because she thinks he would be better for the economy. She thinks he's wrong about ripping up trade agreements but thinks Republicans in congress can convince him otherwise . . .
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Old 8th November 2016, 10:34 PM   #2
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I was thinking trump could actually win. I invested in silver and gold. Mmmmm.
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Old 8th November 2016, 10:48 PM   #3
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That's charming, gold. Think rationally, people: gasoline, ammunition, alcohol.
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Old 8th November 2016, 10:50 PM   #4
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Actually the dollar is mostly down against developed country currencies, like the pound, euro and Aussie dollar, but up against the peso.
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Old 8th November 2016, 10:50 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
That's charming, gold. Think rationally, people: gasoline, ammunition, alcohol.
Remember 2003-2007 the last time Republicans had the White House, the House and the Senate? That is happening again with someone even less qualified at the helm. Solid plan you have there.
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Old 8th November 2016, 11:05 PM   #6
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Looks like it is time for us here in the rest of the world to be the greatest of nations, now that the USA has trash-canned relinquished the title.
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Old 8th November 2016, 11:41 PM   #7
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I'm bummed. I realize tomorrow is another day and what will be will be and I need to get over it.

Maybe this will help: Who am I pissed at:
Hilary Clinton
1. She was almost given the keys to the kingdom when Obama appointed her Secretary of State. What did she do with this opportunity? The handling of her emails was bone dead stupid, hypocritical and corrupt. After she had been caught she stayed in stupid land with the idiotic handling of the scandal. Only she knows what the hell she was thinking but my guess is she relied on the judgment of sycophants and their failure to tell her the truth may well have cost her this election.

2. Her foundation already had problems with the possibility of self dealing. The Obama administration required her to completely distance herself from the foundation while she was Secretary of State. She decided that she didn't need to comply with that. Those kind of rules are for the little people and not her.

3. Her "deplorables" comment: This scared me on two levels. It gave her political opponents a rallying cry and it suggested that she didn't understand her opposition. A lot of the people voting against her didn't see themselves as racist and they didn't like being called out on it. More than that it suggested to me that she didn't understand that there was actually wide ranging reasons why people weren't supporting her beyond racism and she wasn't going to adequately address those issues.

4. Wall street speeches: This looked like crap and when she decided to try to hide the text of the speeches it looked worse. But I guess from her perspective she made a few bucks and even if she won't be president she'll still have a lot of money.

Bill Clinton:
1. His philandering coupled with the massively risky and disrespectful behavior with regard to Monica Lewinsky continued to be a problem for Clinton throughout this campaign.

2. Meeting with Loretta Lynch: This meeting was so stupid and harmful to Clinton's campaign I wondered if he was secretly trying to undermine her campaign. In the end I decided that what was going on mostly was that the Clintons truly viewed themselves as specially privileged and grossly violating any kind of ethical rules by meeting secretly with your wife's potential prosecutor didn't seem like such a bad thing to him.

The main stream media and false equivalency:
Trump was the most dishonest individual ever to gain wide spread fame in my lifetime. He lied all the time on serious issues and trivial issues. The evidence is close to overwhelming that at least on two occasions he attempted to rape women. In addition, on many occasions he groped women. Many of Trump's business ventures were nothing but common con jobs. He routinely tried to cheat his business partners. His so called business acumen consisted of many failures created almost single handedly by his own ineptitude. He openly pandered to the most racist elements of this society. His policy positions were simplistic and usually delivered without any apparent intellectual understanding.

But in some sort of weird attempt at fairness the mainstream media could always find a fault of Clinton's that could balance off Trump's fault. A false equivalence was created. Trump lies, Clinton lies. It's the same thing, when the truth was Clinton had on some occasions lied and Trump lied far more often.

Fox News
Fox News bashed away on Benghazi endlessly to the point that many people came to believe there must be something there since they heard about it every night when there was close to nothing there.
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Old 8th November 2016, 11:46 PM   #8
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I've said it before, and I won't have to say it again: Hillary Clinton has never won an election that she wasn't handed on a silver platter. Worst. Candidate. Ever.
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Old 8th November 2016, 11:50 PM   #9
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It's the voters, duh.

Tell Americans they would be idiots to do something, and no force in the world will stop them from doing exactly that thing.
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Old 8th November 2016, 11:56 PM   #10
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We're acting like America has just been diagnosed with AIDS, but look at Magic Johnson.
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Old 9th November 2016, 12:30 AM   #11
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Keeping with the thread title, someone talk me down from the edge(figuratively speaking)...

The mention of Keystone had me wondering...

Looking forward, either within a Trump administration, or a decade down the road, how many oil spills can we expect due to relaxed regs and oversight of either pipelines, handling or tanker construction?

And how many more Flint water supply debacles will be created, or discovered and either swept under the rug or handled in the worst possible way?

Having visited over a hundred NPS sites myself, I won't even begin to think of the disaster that may await us there.
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Old 9th November 2016, 12:35 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Maybe these are overreactions?
Under, I'd say.

If I had a billion US dollars right now, I'd be changing it to rupees as fast as you can print them.

Trump will bring economic disaster to USA. The markets will open like Black Monday tomorrow morning. I'd even say that 600 on Dow futures tonight is a steal.

The nightmare reality will hit tomorrow.

Has Alex Jones been appointed to cabinet yet?
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Old 9th November 2016, 12:55 AM   #13
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Holy ****. I wake up to the results. May we live uninterresting time.
Next time people says racism and xenophobie is dead in the us we can point out at the 2016 election.

So when does he start building the wall, rounding up moslem, and many of the insane stuff he promised ?

Eta Also i realized , at least for now, you have a majority GOP senate, congress and a trump president. Holy **** christ on a popsickle.

Last edited by Aepervius; 9th November 2016 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 9th November 2016, 01:00 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
The nightmare reality will hit tomorrow.

Has Alex Jones been appointed to cabinet yet?
God help us all. I'm an American but I live in Japan. If he really does rip up all the trade agreements and start a trade war, that would be bad.
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Old 9th November 2016, 01:04 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
So when does he start building the wall, rounding up moslem, and many of the insane stuff he promised ?
I think it likely he will lose interest in all those things and do none of them, but time may prove me wrong.
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Old 9th November 2016, 01:08 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Looks like it is time for us here in the rest of the world to be the greatest of nations, now that the USA has trash-canned relinquished the title.
From January 20, the USA will be represented by an overbearing, obnoxious, ignorant loudmouth. Isn't it ironic?
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Old 9th November 2016, 01:29 AM   #17
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Trump is a moron. But I'm willing to bet that Trump will have the ability to go further to the left on health care then Obama was able to.
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Old 9th November 2016, 01:32 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Trump is a moron. But I'm willing to bet that Trump will have the ability to go further to the left on health care then Obama was able to.
what's in it for him?
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Old 9th November 2016, 01:41 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
So when does he start building the wall, rounding up moslem, and many of the insane stuff he promised ?
We have to go back and look at all the "day one" style speeches he made. They all do it, promise to do X or Y within the first hundred days, or whatever. Remember Obama closing Guantanamo? Like that.
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Old 9th November 2016, 01:55 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
We have to go back and look at all the "day one" style speeches he made. They all do it, promise to do X or Y within the first hundred days, or whatever. Remember Obama closing Guantanamo? Like that.
Obama actually tried to close Guantanamo several times but was blocked by Congress. Is that what you mean?
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Old 9th November 2016, 01:57 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by BillC View Post
I think it likely he will lose interest in all those things and do none of them, but time may prove me wrong.
He will now concentrate on ways he can siphon money into his companies, and then into his (or his family's) bank accounts.
Seriously.
It's been his business modus operandi for decades...does anyone really think he'll pass up a golden opportunity like this?

The rest of it will be just noise to him.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:04 AM   #22
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I wonder how long until he is caught abusing the powers of Presidency.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:08 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
God help us all. I'm an American but I live in Japan. If he really does rip up all the trade agreements and start a trade war, that would be bad.
Meh, the world's overdue for a deep recession and a major war.

President Stillson Trump will help those problems out.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:09 AM   #24
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Where does the surprise and shock come from? They offered us two crappy candidates and we chose one. It doesn't much matter which, since half the country would still be singing the blues.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:12 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Meh, the world's overdue for a deep recession and a major war.

President Stillson Trump will help those problems out.
FWIW, we have probably finished putting the nails in the coffin for the battle against climate change tonight too.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:15 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
FWIW, we have probably finished putting the nails in the coffin for the battle against climate change tonight too.
Very good point.

He may not just destroy America, but the entire planet.

Well played, US voters.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:24 AM   #27
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If all candidates from the top four parties had EQUAL media coverage, the election results would probably be different.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:26 AM   #28
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If I were a US citizen I would move to Mexico and pay for the wall!
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:30 AM   #29
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One unfortunate thing is that if the markets and other economic indicators bottom out in the run up to his inauguration, his supporters will use that as a baseline to show the success of his policies, leaving it unsaid that it was his unstable persona that caused them to be so low in the first place.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:34 AM   #30
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Clutching desperately for anything positive to say on this awful, awful news......but Trump's acceptance speech was more magnanimous and gracious than I had expected.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:38 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I've said it before, and I won't have to say it again: Hillary Clinton has never won an election that she wasn't handed on a silver platter. Worst. Candidate. Ever.
Right now it looks like Clinton will win the popular vote. How does that fit in with your theory?
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:39 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Maya22 View Post
If all candidates from the top four parties had EQUAL media coverage, the election results would probably be different.
They gave equal coverage to Trump's and Clinton's scandals. That's how the problem started in the first place.

Course if you want to go further back it's reasonable to see Bernie beating Hillary with ample media coverage.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:41 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
FWIW, we have probably finished putting the nails in the coffin for the battle against climate change tonight too.
If and when the climate deal gets scrapped, and a guy shows up on the news getting arrested for throwing tomatoes and eggs at the US Consulate in Barcelona, that'd be me, calling out the traitors to all of humanity who scrapped the climate deal and maybe even restarted the coal mines. Those emissions and dirty smokestacks are the equivalent gun barrels, and they point at much of life on Earth, so strenuous opposition to the US and US economic interests will be fully legitimate on solid, reasoned, justifiable, scientific grounds. Wow. Welcome to pariah status! Hey, at least it's still status. Nobody-hood will take a few more decades.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:45 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Trump is a moron. But I'm willing to bet that Trump will have the ability to go further to the left on health care then Obama was able to.
To be positive for a moment, there is some chance Trump will follow Roosevelt and become a fairly decent populist with generally good results. I doubt it, though.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:50 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
If and when the climate deal gets scrapped, and a guy shows up on the news getting arrested for throwing tomatoes and eggs at the US Consulate in Barcelona, that'd be me, calling out the traitors to all of humanity who scrapped the climate deal and maybe even restarted the coal mines. Those emissions and dirty smokestacks are the equivalent gun barrels, and they point at much of life on Earth, so strenuous opposition to the US and US economic interests will be fully legitimate on solid, reasoned, justifiable, scientific grounds. Wow. Welcome to pariah status! Hey, at least it's still status. Nobody-hood will take a few more decades.
The coal mines are not coming back. Coal mining jobs will continue to decline. Bringing back the coal mining jobs was just one more Trump lie. He won't undue restrictions on acid rain emissions and mercury emissions. Republicans breathe air and drink water too He isn't going to univent fracking or the technological changes that have vastly reduced the number of coal mine jobs. He isn't going to uninvent LED light bulbs.

I agree that the guy that said global warming was a Chinese hoax isn't going to support rules to curtail carbon emissions but at least in the case of coal it won't matter that much, although he'll probably do his best to stop the building of windmills so maybe around the margins there will be some more coal mining than if he hadn't been elected.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:02 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Trump is a moron. But I'm willing to bet that Trump will have the ability to go further to the left on health care then Obama was able to.
Hmm, from the Trump website:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...lthcare-reform

Quote:
1. Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.
2. Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.
3. Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.
4. Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.
5. Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.
6. Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.
7. Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.
Now, notice that it will go back to where insurance can simply refuse to cover people who they don't think are a good risk. People with pre-existing conditions, etc.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:05 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Clutching desperately for anything positive to say on this awful, awful news......but Trump's acceptance speech was more magnanimous and gracious than I had expected.
It's easier to be a good winner than a good loser. Plus it was probably written by a speechwriter.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:06 AM   #38
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Well bugger. It seems there are enough ignorant, desperate and bigoted USAians to actually elect a habitual lair and self confessed sexual abuser.

Oh well watching them implode when he fails to carry through on his promised should be entertaining.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:06 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Hmm, from the Trump website:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...lthcare-reform

Now, notice that it will go back to where insurance can simply refuse to cover people who they don't think are a good risk. People with pre-existing conditions, etc.
Point 7 has a good chance of drastically cutting health expenditure though. It's the underlying reason for the expensive insurance for the first place and an approach that can actually significantly tackle the reason people in the US go without coverage in the first place.

It might not be feasible due to lobbying groups, but it's anything but dumb.

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Old 9th November 2016, 03:17 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Well bugger. It seems there are enough ignorant, desperate and bigoted USAians to actually elect a habitual lair and self confessed sexual abuser.

Oh well watching them implode when he fails to carry through on his promised should be entertaining.
If the US goes down-hill, Trump will either deflect it on minorities, or start a war. It's what Putin does.
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