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Tags 2016 election results , 2016 elections , donald trump , Trump controversies

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Old 9th November 2016, 08:22 PM   #361
a_unique_person
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Is he going to abuse his powers to put Hillary in jail, like he promised?
Is he going to keep his promise and lock her up? His conciliatory speech could be his first broken promise. Hillary haters will be devastated.
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Old 9th November 2016, 08:25 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Trump is a moron. But I'm willing to bet that Trump will have the ability to go further to the left on health care then Obama was able to.
McConnell has already said they (the Senate) are going to repeal the ACA. On this I'd say McConnell a) has more power and b) knows how to put his views into action. Trump will just be collateral damage.
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Old 9th November 2016, 08:29 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This was a silver platter. She wanted gold though.
Good gawd, something other than an emoticon. The world really has changed.
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Old 9th November 2016, 08:39 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
The republican party controls both houses.
Yep, you guys own both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. But remember, Pottery Barn rules.
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Old 9th November 2016, 08:44 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
McConnell has already said they (the Senate) are going to repeal the ACA. On this I'd say McConnell a) has more power and b) knows how to put his views into action. Trump will just be collateral damage.
They are going screw the poor and middle class like it hasn't been screwed in years. ACA, gone, anti union legislation for sure. Consumer and Environmental protection gone. Banking regulations, forgetaboutit. Grease up your asses America, you're going to need it. Estate taxes will be a thing of the past. Toll roads everywhere. They'll be privatizing the interstate highway system selling it all off. This will be all their greatest hits.
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Old 9th November 2016, 08:49 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The question is how much of the Trump we have been seeing is somebody who will say anything to get elected,but who will behave differently in office.
I don't find it to be a perplexing question. The hubris. The ego. The lying. The racism. The sense of entitlement. I think it is all baked in. WYSIWYG to the core.
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Old 9th November 2016, 08:49 PM   #367
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There is one thing I'm hoping for that could be a silver lining if it happens. It seems to me entirely possible that President Trump could end up making both McConnell and Ryan miserable.
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Old 9th November 2016, 09:02 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Trump said he was going to help them...
And the rubes bought it.

Prediction: two years from now you'll be pissed at Trump for not doing a damn thing he said he would, except maybe dump the ACA.
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Old 9th November 2016, 09:11 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This is true but right now they are ignoring New York, Massachusetts, California, Texas and a dozen other states.
Pretty sure a number of the states you list have signed on to this pact. I know MA has.
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Old 9th November 2016, 09:35 PM   #370
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I'll take Trump as he comes. He's a bit of a wild card but first things first:

Obama just had Citibank name the appointed posts, as we can see from Wikileaks. So the banks just had a representative. They funded his campaign as they funded Hillary's now. She told them exactly what they wanted to know as per wikileaks Goldman-Sachs speeches.

Trump is going to name a cabinet and we'll see who they are. Newt Gingrich is the first red flag for any establishment radar. Especially Secretary of State. This position has been hyper-critical to the Military-Industrial-Security Complex.

State approves all the weapons deals. It (under Hillary especially) serves as the conduit for illegal arms transfers too, for covert resources to mercinaries and etc. Trump is not as wildly reckless as Hillary, but nowhere near my idea of a non-interventionist. He'd have to appoint Ron Paul to State.

But Gingrich? That's a rock that needs looking under.
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Old 9th November 2016, 09:45 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
I'll take Trump as he comes. He's a bit of a wild card but first things first:

Obama just had Citibank name the appointed posts, as we can see from Wikileaks. So the banks just had a representative. They funded his campaign as they funded Hillary's now. She told them exactly what they wanted to know as per wikileaks Goldman-Sachs speeches.

Trump is going to name a cabinet and we'll see who they are. Newt Gingrich is the first red flag for any establishment radar. Especially Secretary of State. This position has been hyper-critical to the Military-Industrial-Security Complex.

State approves all the weapons deals. It (under Hillary especially) serves as the conduit for illegal arms transfers too, for covert resources to mercinaries and etc. Trump is not as wildly reckless as Hillary, but nowhere near my idea of a non-interventionist. He'd have to appoint Ron Paul to State.

But Gingrich? That's a rock that needs looking under.
Trump had already signaled he was going to make a Goldman Sachs executive Treasury Secretary.
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Old 9th November 2016, 11:18 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It's super awesome that Trump was so presidential, the way he reached out to unify the nation.
Originally Posted by Omarosa
I would never judge anybody for exercising their right to and the freedom to choose who they want. But let me just tell you, Mr. Trump has a long memory and were keeping a list.
link
I don't really know who Omarosa is, but I take it she's someone who is famous because she was a contestant on Trump's reality TV show?

I don't doubt that Trump will try to settle scores with those he feels have slighted him.
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Old 10th November 2016, 12:18 AM   #373
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A few scattered thoughts.

First, regarding the "surge" it looks like Trump, at this point, received fewer votes than either John McCain or Mitt Romney (or Hillary Clinton for that matter). Even an aggressive deportation/labor camp policy cannot alter long-term demographics.

Unfortunately, the EC yet again favored the Republican. Four years ago Donald Trump was saying the EC was a "disaster for democracy." I always hope the Republican will win the popular vote, but only garner a minority of electoral votes. While perhaps optimistic, I still think the Electoral College could offer future advantages to Democrats.

As for the Skeptic Tanks of the world talking about white people, I see a problem there as well. According to the exit polls (if we believe the exit polls), Romney won a bigger percentage of the white vote than Trump. Trump outperformed Romney when it came to all minorities (Blacks, Latinos, Asians). Now one could say the white people voting for Trump were motivated by white identity politics, but the share of white people declined.

Trump did one percentage point better with men than Romney did against Obama (and slightly worse with women). According to the polls, men were up 1% relative to women in this cycle (but who knows how much rounding is involved).

Getting lost in all of this Trumpism is what anti-Trump Republicans have long been saying: Almost any other mainstream Republican other than Bush would have probably destroyed Clinton. Kasich, Romney, or Rubio.

Here are links to exit polls:

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/res...ace/president/
http://edition.cnn.com/election/resu...onal/president
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Last edited by Cain; 10th November 2016 at 12:33 AM. Reason: Changed links and some other stuff.
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Old 10th November 2016, 12:30 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Yes, logger, we lost.

But so did the world.
But you lost.
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Old 10th November 2016, 12:39 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
A few scattered thoughts.

First, regarding the "surge" it looks like Trump, at this point, received fewer votes than either John McCain or Mitt Romney (or Hillary Clinton for that matter). Even an aggressive deportation/labor camp policy cannot alter long-term demographics.

Unfortunately, the EC yet again favored the Republican. Four years ago Donald Trump was saying the EC was a "disaster for democracy." I always hope the Republican will win the popular vote, but only garner a minority of electoral votes. While perhaps optimistic, I still think the Electoral College could offer future advantages to Democrats.

As for the Skeptic Tanks of the world talking about white people, I see a problem there as well. According to the exit polls (if we believe the exit polls), Romney won a bigger percentage of the white vote than Trump. Trump outperformed Romney when it came to all minorities (Blacks, Latinos, Asians). Now one could say the white people voting for Trump were motivated by white identity politics.

Trump did one percentage point better with men than Romney did against Obama (and slightly worse with women), but perhaps men made up a larger share of the electorate in this cycle.

Here are links to exit polls:

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/res...ace/president/
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...xit-polls.html
Weird. Although the CNN one is from 2012. However, I don't think it is correct that "Romney won a bigger percentage of the white vote than Trump" according to the NYT data. Trump got 1% more of the white vote, but that may not be significant. Incredibly, Trump did 8% better among Latinos than Romney. Apparently much better among low income people and whites without a college degree. Women was almost unchanged, but men went more for Trump (or perhaps against Hillary). Some people had a hard time accepting that. I don't know if this election proves that "America hates women" but maybe it proves that America hates Hillary Clinton. Whether that is rational or not.
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Old 10th November 2016, 01:41 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I don't know how you got there from what I said.
Quite willing to agree it is harder to parse what we are all saying these days. I have great respect for you and pls don't take my post as harshly as it may have been expressed.

Quote:
Okaaaayyyyy I suppose. I mean, it's not like it's been almost exclusively democrats who have proposed and enacted the various bans and restrictions we've seen in my lifetime. Right? Right????
I think I'll let guns as a topic lie dormant with such a full plate already in this thread.

Quote:
What does this even mean? What does 10th grade history have to do with it? Does that somehow make it acceptable and palatable that a pile of liberals are busy slathering condescension on half the population?
What it means as I intended it is that the dangers of totalitarianism have been crystal clear since WWII, and the US used to know how to teach students about those dangers and make them recognizable in today's guises.


Quote:
I genuinely have no idea what this has to do with what I said....
Again, you don't seem to be picking up what I'm laying down. I believe you have read my post with a completely different inference than what I intended. I'm just not sure where the disconnect is.
Fair enough. As to the point I was making about this being a different world, here is an article from today on Reuters, a brief read.
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Old 10th November 2016, 01:48 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Weird. Although the CNN one is from 2012. However, I don't think it is correct that "Romney won a bigger percentage of the white vote than Trump" according to the NYT data. Trump got 1% more of the white vote, but that may not be significant. Incredibly, Trump did 8% better among Latinos than Romney. Apparently much better among low income people and whites without a college degree. Women was almost unchanged, but men went more for Trump (or perhaps against Hillary). Some people had a hard time accepting that. I don't know if this election proves that "America hates women" but maybe it proves that America hates Hillary Clinton. Whether that is rational or not.
Trump won more Democrats than Hillary did Republicans.
More people voted for Trump in part because they disliked Hillary, than for Hillary because they disliked Trump.

In other words, Trump was elected on the basis of being the lesser evil.

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Old 10th November 2016, 02:27 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
State approves all the weapons deals. It (under Hillary especially) serves as the conduit for illegal arms transfers too, for covert resources to mercinaries and etc. Trump is not as wildly reckless as Hillary, but nowhere near my idea of a non-interventionist.
what makes you think Trump isn't as wildly reckless as Clinton? After all, Trump supported the invasion of Iraq AND intervention in Libya. (The only difference between Clinton and Trump in that regard is Trump's tendency to lie after the fact and claim he was against it.) Plus you have all his other screwed up ideas... killing the families of terrorists (a war crime), taking the oil of countries that the U.S. "helps".

So Trump will be just as eager to throw around American military weight as Clinton, only without the experience, intelligence and moral compass that other leaders have had.
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Old 10th November 2016, 03:55 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yet people in Alaska with no understanding of the issues of urban cities wield far too much power over their urban brethren. For example gun violence in the cities. Hell, in Alaska everyone is packing. There is a NEED for firearms. This is not true in Chicago or LA.
That is good because rural people are better whiter people than city people.
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Old 10th November 2016, 03:58 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Exactly. Trump was selling bs and the public not knowing any better ate it up.
A lot of them do know it is BS. For example many of his supporters don't think the wall was ever serious even though it is the corner stone of his campaign.

He is like the Bible he says so many contradictory things that everyone can choose to believe that he will actually support the percentage of things they agree with and not do the dumb things they don't agree with.
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Old 10th November 2016, 04:07 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
what makes you think Trump isn't as wildly reckless as Clinton? After all, Trump supported the invasion of Iraq AND intervention in Libya. (The only difference between Clinton and Trump in that regard is Trump's tendency to lie after the fact and claim he was against it.) Plus you have all his other screwed up ideas... killing the families of terrorists (a war crime), taking the oil of countries that the U.S. "helps".

So Trump will be just as eager to throw around American military weight as Clinton, only without the experience, intelligence and moral compass that other leaders have had.
While it is true that killing the families of terrorists is a war crime, it is one policy that would actually work. I don't support it, but the logic behind it is sensible.

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Old 10th November 2016, 04:27 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
While it is true that killing the families of terrorists is a war crime, it is one policy that would actually work. I don't support it, but the logic behind it is sensible.

McHrozni
Just like wiping out all of humanity. It would solve all of our problems. I don't support it, but the logic behind it is sensible.
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Old 10th November 2016, 04:36 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
McConnell has already said they (the Senate) are going to repeal the ACA. On this I'd say McConnell a) has more power and b) knows how to put his views into action. Trump will just be collateral damage.
So I guess its back to premier health care for the rich, and the ambulance waiting at the bottom of the cliff for the poor?
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Old 10th November 2016, 04:42 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So I guess its back to premier health care for the rich, and the ambulance waiting at the bottom of the cliff for the poor?
That's the plan.
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Old 10th November 2016, 04:42 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So I guess its back to premier health care for the rich, and the ambulance waiting at the bottom of the cliff for the poor?
Well that's what enough of the U.S. electorate seem to want

I mean I know that Trump polled fewer votes than Hillary and that ACA was getting some pretty good approval numbers but the way it worked out with the Presidency, Senate and House is that the GOP get to call the shots for the next 2 years at least.

IMO repealing the ACA will further increase inequality which will in turn will mean that people will be even less well disposed to things like the ACA which are intended to reduce inequality. It's a vicious circle
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Old 10th November 2016, 04:46 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
While it is true that killing the families of terrorists is a war crime, it is one policy that would actually work. I don't support it, but the logic behind it is sensible.

McHrozni
And you know the highlighted how ?

Is there any evidence that terrorists care any more for their families than they do anyone else ?

Is there any evidence that killing the families of terrorists will reduce the threat from terrorism ? I'd have thought that this kind of action would have the opposite effect, to confirm the nonsense that the US really is the "Great Satan" intent on destroying Islam by any method - which would act as a recruiting call for other terrorists.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:15 AM   #387
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"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."
- Mohandas Karamchand (Mahatma) Gandhi

Its a pity that those who oppose universal health care fail to understand this.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:22 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So I guess its back to premier health care for the rich, and the ambulance waiting at the bottom of the cliff for the poor?
No, that ambulance would cost way too much. Just a stretcher.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:28 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
And you know the highlighted how ?
Israeli policy of destroying homes of suicide bombers worked well. I'm certain an even worse policy would work at least as well.

Quote:
Is there any evidence that killing the families of terrorists will reduce the threat from terrorism ? I'd have thought that this kind of action would have the opposite effect, to confirm the nonsense that the US really is the "Great Satan" intent on destroying Islam by any method - which would act as a recruiting call for other terrorists.
Another effect it would have is to give the families of terrorist great incentive to prevent them from becoming terrorists in the first place.

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Old 10th November 2016, 05:33 AM   #390
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They issued Trump the new top secret nuclear launch codes. Russian hackers have already released them:

User: Prez
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:37 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Why would they always be around when workers in another country will work for much less?
Because some things are just basic services. Even as technology takes over, many companies won't be able to afford that technology.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:38 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There aren't a million jobs in any small town in rural America. It doesn't matter what your skills may be. Those are the people who elected him.


But there could be a million jobs in several small towns together.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:39 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Another effect it would have is to give the families of terrorist great incentive to prevent them from becoming terrorists in the first place.
You think? The government slaughtering innocent people is one of the few things that could motivate me to become a terrorist.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:40 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Indeed. Greed and stupidity will cost humanity a livable environment. Yay, cockroaches.
Do us all a favor then, start walking.

See, the greed can end with you.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:42 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Is he going to keep his promise and lock her up? His conciliatory speech could be his first broken promise. Hillary haters will be devastated.
We want a full investigation into the Clinton foundation, that certainly should continue, hopefully it will lead to her and Bills long confinement.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:44 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
They are going screw the poor and middle class like it hasn't been screwed in years. ACA, gone, anti union legislation for sure. Consumer and Environmental protection gone. Banking regulations, forgetaboutit. Grease up your asses America, you're going to need it. Estate taxes will be a thing of the past. Toll roads everywhere. They'll be privatizing the interstate highway system selling it all off. This will be all their greatest hits.
The middle class has been getting screwed, and they know it.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:46 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I don't really know who Omarosa is, but I take it she's someone who is famous because she was a contestant on Trump's reality TV show?

I don't doubt that Trump will try to settle scores with those he feels have slighted him.
Damn right, liberals have always dealt with republican wimps, its payback time now.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:47 AM   #398
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When discussing international politics on this forum posters may well need to clarify a couple of terms that until now were accepted as broadly understood - 'right' and 'left'. In the UK, we talk of the 'right' in terms of the Conservative party, which is significantly to the right of both Labour and the Lib Dems. UKIP, which has virtually no national representation, is further to the right than the Conservatives and is occasionally referred to as 'far right'. But now we have a situation where the US president and government system looks like being somewhat to the right of UKIP, with some of Trump's campaign policies aligning with Griffin's now defunct BNP.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:48 AM   #399
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I still can't believe how bad you liberals lost this election. You're going to be in the wilderness for a long time. It'll be fun watching you freak out over everything Trump does.
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Old 10th November 2016, 05:51 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
I don't find it to be a perplexing question. The hubris. The ego. The lying. The racism. The sense of entitlement. I think it is all baked in.
Except for the perceived racism, each of those characteristics were really shared by both candidates.

IMHO, of course.
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