ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags 2016 election results , 2016 elections , donald trump , Trump controversies

Closed Thread
Old 9th November 2016, 10:58 AM   #161
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,126
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Inorite? Those were exactly the same adjectives I used.
It's a trick. Get an axe.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:02 AM   #162
Emily's Cat
Knows how to push buttons... er... press keys
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 8,791
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Actually, it appears she won the popular vote.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics
Only because California is so damned big.
__________________
I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:03 AM   #163
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 21,075
Originally Posted by logger View Post
What's amazing is how wrong the left was and its really bad for you. Not only did most of you here have crow for breakfast. You didn't gain the Senate like you were supposed to.

The decision by McConnell not to appoint Obama's SCOTUS pick looks to be a great decision.

You have a crap load of Senate seats to defend the next time around.

The republican party controls both houses.

Cue the pouty liberal meme how Americans are all stupid.

Its amazing how this place claims to be so brilliant and yet you were so incredibly wrong!
Suck it up libs, you lost and you lost big time.
These expressions look mildly psychotic. If anything goes seriously wrong during the Trump presidency, and I am tempted to respond in kind, I give you permission in advance to reprimand me, and to recall me to a more reasonable state of mind.

Indeed, not even all Trump voters are "stupid", let alone the slightly larger number who voted for Clinton than voted for Trump. But of the minority of voters who really are stupid, I wonder who received most of the votes cast by that segment of the population.

Last edited by Craig B; 9th November 2016 at 11:08 AM.
Craig B is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:12 AM   #164
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,354
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
These expressions look mildly psychotic. If anything goes seriously wrong during the Trump presidency, and I am tempted to respond in kind, I give you permission in advance to reprimand me, and to recall me to a more reasonable state of mind.

Indeed, not even all Trump voters are "stupid", let alone the slightly larger number who voted for Clinton than voted for Trump. But of the minority of voters who really are stupid, I wonder who received most of the votes cast by that segment of the population.
I'm sorry. If you voted for Trump, you're stupid. Gullible beyond belief. You're the moron who falls for the scholar's mate 10 times in a row.
__________________
A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:15 AM   #165
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yes that will be the left narrative going forward. This is why your side lost, you just don't get it. Your side is the political elite, it has been rejected!


NONE OF YOU GET IT BECAUSE THERE IS A LACK OF COMMON SENSE HERE. YOU NEED TO BE LED BY THE NOSE BY OTHERS.

Love it, libs lose so badly.
I'm pointing my wiggly fingers down.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:17 AM   #166
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
At least we'll finally close Gitmo.

No more offshoring our humiliation when we can fund another private prison in Idaho. Let's bring those jobs home people!
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:35 AM   #167
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 10,378
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Each time a poster calls voters stupid I'm going to respond with, "the new narrative"
I suggest you keep it handy in your copy/paste buffer, as a time-saver.

Quote:
And by the way, this is why you guys lost, these rust belt dems feel slighted by these kinds of comments and leftists policies, so please, continue to insult them.
Yeah, I saw expert analysis indicating that the rust belt states were heavily swayed by a sleepy backwater skeptics forum.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

Last edited by varwoche; 9th November 2016 at 11:36 AM.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:40 AM   #168
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
 
Hlafordlaes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 5,857
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
... America, no longer the land of the free and the home of the brave. Now we're the land of the suckers and home of the pussies.

Hey, hey, I'm the hyperbole guy! Buzz off!

(Enjoying all your posts. Especially since you seem to fully appreciate the many historical parallels.)
__________________
Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. Spends that time videogaming.
Hlafordlaes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:43 AM   #169
phiwum
Philosopher
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,452
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Since our new commander-in-chief has demonstrated a fondness for adding little monikers to the front of his opponents names (crooked Hillary, little Marco, lyin' Ted) I will henceforth express the respect I have for him by referring to him as "Dirty Donald" in all future references. His supporters, of course, not to be left out, are henceforth " Trumpsters"

I invite any who share the respect I do for Dirty Donald to follow suit.
Certainly not. The fact that the president-elect behaves like a petulant child doesn't mean it's good for us to do the same.
phiwum is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:47 AM   #170
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 20,899
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I was shocked to see that Obama issued fewer executive orders than any president since Cleveland. I thought that he exercised that power a bit too much.

Of course, it may be that his orders were more sweeping, which would explain that impression. I can't tell whether that's accurate or not.

Source: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php
It only seems like he did more because of the retarded *********** right's spin machine. They've pumped so much ignorance into the American psyche that things that are easily disproved become actual facts. It's insanity.

And he'd have even fewer executive orders if he had a congress that was even marginally interested in doing their job.
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:48 AM   #171
Distracted1
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,015
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Certainly not. The fact that the president-elect behaves like a petulant child doesn't mean it's good for us to do the same.
Civility, maturity, rational discourse, and respect for our fellows, has been put to a referendum.
The outcome of such is for all to see.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:50 AM   #172
phiwum
Philosopher
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,452
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
It only seems like he did more because of the retarded *********** right's spin machine. They've pumped so much ignorance into the American psyche that things that are easily disproved become actual facts. It's insanity.

And he'd have even fewer executive orders if he had a congress that was even marginally interested in doing their job.
No, I don't think the right wing spin machine explains my misimpression. I'm not in the habit of listening to right-leaning media so much. I take my news from various newspapers, PBS and NPR, where of course conservative spokesmen are quoted, but with a balanced presentation over all.

I suspect, but cannot show, that my impression is because Obama's orders were made to get around an obstructionist Congress and hence were more newsworthy than garden-variety executive orders.
phiwum is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:51 AM   #173
phiwum
Philosopher
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,452
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Civility, maturity, rational discourse, and respect for our fellows, has been put to a referendum.
The outcome of such is for all to see.
My behavior is not determined by a referendum, sorry.

I alone am responsible for how I treat others.
phiwum is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:54 AM   #174
Distracted1
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,015
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
My behavior is not determined by a referendum, sorry.

I alone am responsible for how I treat others.
Loser.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:54 AM   #175
Jrrarglblarg
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Each time a poster calls voters stupid I'm going to respond with, "the new narrative"
repetitive stress damage can be painful and debilitating. I suggest you more a macro.
Quote:
And by the way, this is why you guys lost, these rust belt dems feel slighted by these kinds of comments and leftists policies, so please, continue to insult them.
hillary lost because she's a ****** candidate, which I've been saying for 9 years. And it isn't just the rust belt, it's all the counties that don't have colleges or universities, or state Capitols. At the county to county level she got clobbered because the Lost Tribe drank the Flavoraid.
Jrrarglblarg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 11:59 AM   #176
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,354
Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Hey, hey, I'm the hyperbole guy! Buzz off!

(Enjoying all your posts. Especially since you seem to fully appreciate the many historical parallels.)
Sadly I do.

Logger is not wrong about why people voted for Trump. Their error is thinking Trump is remotely interested or capable of addressing their problems. Not once did Trump talk about a single issue which made me believe he had a clue what he was talking about. It was incoherent word salads and "believe me" 5 thousand times. Bull-**** and more bull **** and people ate it up. As my father use to say, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bs"...except he never used the abbreviation.

It's the bumper sticker or more accurately the Twitter electorate. Anything longer than 140 characters and it's too much. Tweets for the Twits.
__________________
A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.
― David Hume

Last edited by acbytesla; 9th November 2016 at 12:00 PM.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:02 PM   #177
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,188
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Since our new commander-in-chief has demonstrated a fondness for adding little monikers to the front of his opponents names (crooked Hillary, little Marco, lyin' Ted) I will henceforth express the respect I have for him by referring to him as "Dirty Donald" in all future references. His supporters, of course, not to be left out, are henceforth " Trumpsters"

I invite any who share the respect I do for Dirty Donald to follow suit.
He ain't the only one to do that. Standard technique.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.

Last edited by dudalb; 9th November 2016 at 12:08 PM.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:07 PM   #178
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,188
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
My behavior is not determined by a referendum, sorry.

I alone am responsible for how I treat others.
And there is a word if you condemn somebody for bad behavior, then behave the same way yourself. It is called hypocrisy.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:09 PM   #179
Jrrarglblarg
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
After Obama's reign of terror and incompetence, Trump will be a breath of fresh air. We have nowhere to go but up. Just look at the price of gas. Road maintenance revenues due to fuel taxes fell disastrously under Obama. Just yesterday I filled up for a buck 38 per gallon after grocery discount points. We can't sustain infrastructure with low revenue like that.

Only Trump Can Save Us! Hail President Trump.

Last edited by Jrrarglblarg; 9th November 2016 at 12:13 PM.
Jrrarglblarg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:10 PM   #180
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,188
Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
repetitive stress damage can be painful and debilitating. I suggest you more a macro.
hillary lost because she's a ****** candidate, which I've been saying for 9 years. And it isn't just the rust belt, it's all the counties that don't have colleges or universities, or state Capitols. At the county to county level she got clobbered because the Lost Tribe drank the Flavoraid.
And here we have what Michael Moore thinks is the stupidest thing that Liberals do: Badmouth and ridicule White Blue Collar voters and Rural Voters, and wonder why they don't vote Democratic.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:13 PM   #181
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 43,847
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And here we have what Michael Moore thinks is the stupidest thing that Liberals do: Badmouth and ridicule White Blue Collar voters and Rural Voters, and wonder why they don't vote Democratic.
Whereas rural white blue collar voters have nothing but respect and kindness to display toward my city-dwelling college-degreed gay atheist self, right?
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:14 PM   #182
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,354
Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
After Obama's reign of terror and incompetence, Trump will be a breath of fresh air. We have nowhere to go but up. Just look at the price of gas. Road maintenance revenues due to fuel taxes fell disastrously under Obama. Just yesterday I filled up for a buck 38 after grocery discount points. We can't sustain infrastructure like that.

Only Trump Can Save Us! Hail President Trump.
Yea, Barack was another Robespierre.
__________________
A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:20 PM   #183
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
What liberal use of executive orders? He issued few compared to many other presidents, especially the last few Republican ones.
Clearly he needed to make many more of them.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:20 PM   #184
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 6,410
Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba View Post
I'm not sure Hillary's perceived weaknesses are to blame. I suspect it's a combination of Trump being rubber-stamped by the GOP leadership and him tapping into the "white man's rage", bringing out an otherwise reluctant demographic.

Still, Hillary's impopularity with millenials seems to have been a factor too. (Also, her lack of maleness).

I guess that is something that was not predicted but still happened.

For many years, the white, middle class, semi educated demographic... (you know who I mean; the ones that worked in the steel mills and the factories and the mines, and who farmed the land and provided soldiers for all of America's wars, in other words, those who were once the backbone of America) have felt left behind, taken for granted and disenfranchised.

Now, whether or not any of that is actually true is arguable, and in any case, largely irrelevant. Its what this demographic perceives as being true that is important. This year, for the first time since records were kept, white births were outnumbered by non-white births. By 2044, whites will be a minority in what that demographic considers to be its own country.

IMO, it is the perception of this demographic that they have been largely forgotten about that has led to many of them who might never have voted before to vote for Trump. In Hillary Clinton, they saw an establishment candidate who they perceived as representing "more of the same old same old" ; in Trump, they saw someone who was offering something different, who said the things they wanted to hear.

I while I consider Trump to be an intellectual doofus, he is also a cunning strategist (don't ever make the mistake of confusing cunning with intelligence). He knew the fight was going to be a close one, he knew that a single demographic could be the difference between winning and losing, he figured out which demographic was most likely to be the key, and he targeted it with a vengeance.
__________________
► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:22 PM   #185
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by Random View Post
Nah. He will become all gracious and crap and let her off with a "we must look forward, not backwards/reflection/not recrimination" speech and let her sail off into the sunset provided she doesn't try anything political ever again. It's been a tradition since Nixon to let the our political leaders get off the hook for anything bad they may have done after a change in government. That's how Reagan and Bush II managed to ooze their way out of office without war crimes charges...
So he will start reneging on his campaign promises before he is even sworn in?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:23 PM   #186
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,354
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Whereas rural white blue collar voters have nothing but respect and kindness to display toward my city-dwelling college-degreed gay atheist self, right?
Of course, they all full of love.
__________________
A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:25 PM   #187
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 18,862
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Clearly he needed to make many more of them.
He's still got time.
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.
Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon
Spindrift is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:29 PM   #188
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 17,127
Is it remotely possible that enough of electoral college voters could switch? I'm not sure if they'd "have" to do so as a state (for those who pledge single-party) or if enough eople of good conscience could turn this election on its head.
alfaniner is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:31 PM   #189
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,188
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Whereas rural white blue collar voters have nothing but respect and kindness to display toward my city-dwelling college-degreed gay atheist self, right?
Hey, if you need their votes to win, you play up to them. Politics 1A.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:32 PM   #190
Emily's Cat
Knows how to push buttons... er... press keys
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 8,791
Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
The meshback low information ideology-on-a-sticker voters came out. All over.
Do you actually believe that fully half of the voters in the US are complete idiot retarded redneck racist sexist jerks? If Clinton had won with that same popular margin, would you then magically transform half the country into intelligent, educated, deep-thinking, magnanimous awesome folks?

Honestly, I don't think it's nearly as straightforward "us and them" as you (the collective you, referencing many of the posters in this thread) want it to be. And I genuinely don't think that the racist/sexist contingent is what swayed the vote. For one thing, I don't think there are actually that many people in the US who are so blatantly racist and sexist. If there were so many, I'd expect the entire flavor of the discussions about gender bias, institutional racial bias, etc. on this forum.

I think calling the "other side" names and insinuating that they're too dumb to breath is a cheap shot that accomplishes nothing but to mollify a bruised ego. In my opinion, all of our time would be better spent trying to gain a *genuine* understanding of the situation. Why did Clinton lose? What aspects of her campaign and/or her character left voters dissatisfied? Why did Trump win? What aspects of his campaign and/or character garnered votes? Given some of the stuff he's said... why were those things dismissed by voters? This is what I'd like to understand... and just calling half the country "meshbacks" doesn't get me any closer to that.
__________________
I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:33 PM   #191
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,188
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I guess that is something that was not predicted but still happened.

For many years, the white, middle class, semi educated demographic... (you know who I mean; the ones that worked in the steel mills and the factories and the mines, and who farmed the land and provided soldiers for all of America's wars, in other words, those who were once the backbone of America) have felt left behind, taken for granted and disenfranchised.

Now, whether or not any of that is actually true is arguable, and in any case, largely irrelevant. Its what this demographic perceives as being true that is important. This year, for the first time since records were kept, white births were outnumbered by non-white births. By 2044, whites will be a minority in what that demographic considers to be its own country.

IMO, it is the perception of this demographic that they have been largely forgotten about that has led to many of them who might never have voted before to vote for Trump. In Hillary Clinton, they saw an establishment candidate who they perceived as representing "more of the same old same old" ; in Trump, they saw someone who was offering something different, who said the things they wanted to hear.

I while I consider Trump to be an intellectual doofus, he is also a cunning strategist (don't ever make the mistake of confusing cunning with intelligence). He knew the fight was going to be a close one, he knew that a single demographic could be the difference between winning and losing, he figured out which demographic was most likely to be the key, and he targeted it with a vengeance.
Michael Moore has been a relentless critic of the American Left for the contempt they seem to have for that Demo...which costs them election after election.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:33 PM   #192
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
After Obama's reign of terror and incompetence, Trump will be a breath of fresh air. We have nowhere to go but up. Just look at the price of gas. Road maintenance revenues due to fuel taxes fell disastrously under Obama. Just yesterday I filled up for a buck 38 per gallon after grocery discount points. We can't sustain infrastructure with low revenue like that.

Only Trump Can Save Us! Hail President Trump.
Private toll based roads are what rural america clearly wants.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:34 PM   #193
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 18,862
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Is it remotely possible that enough of electoral college voters could switch? I'm not sure if they'd "have" to do so as a state (for those who pledge single-party) or if enough eople of good conscience could turn this election on its head.
No, not possible. The electors represent the results of their state, not the nation. Even though I'm opposed to Trump, electors just ignoring their state results would be a disaster.
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.
Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon
Spindrift is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:36 PM   #194
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,188
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Do you actually believe that fully half of the voters in the US are complete idiot retarded redneck racist sexist jerks? If Clinton had won with that same popular margin, would you then magically transform half the country into intelligent, educated, deep-thinking, magnanimous awesome folks?

Honestly, I don't think it's nearly as straightforward "us and them" as you (the collective you, referencing many of the posters in this thread) want it to be. And I genuinely don't think that the racist/sexist contingent is what swayed the vote. For one thing, I don't think there are actually that many people in the US who are so blatantly racist and sexist. If there were so many, I'd expect the entire flavor of the discussions about gender bias, institutional racial bias, etc. on this forum.

I think calling the "other side" names and insinuating that they're too dumb to breath is a cheap shot that accomplishes nothing but to mollify a bruised ego. In my opinion, all of our time would be better spent trying to gain a *genuine* understanding of the situation. Why did Clinton lose? What aspects of her campaign and/or her character left voters dissatisfied? Why did Trump win? What aspects of his campaign and/or character garnered votes? Given some of the stuff he's said... why were those things dismissed by voters? This is what I'd like to understand... and just calling half the country "meshbacks" doesn't get me any closer to that.
THIS.
Just writing off all Trump voters as a bunch of stupid bigots is self defeating and does nothing except making your feel superior to somebody.
A great many people voted for Trump with many reservatations,and voted for him despite his behavior on the campaign, not because of it.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:37 PM   #195
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And here we have what Michael Moore thinks is the stupidest thing that Liberals do: Badmouth and ridicule White Blue Collar voters and Rural Voters, and wonder why they don't vote Democratic.
And their desire to make america white again and purge the gays means nothing. They made their political allies and will have to accept the toll roads they need to get anywhere in the future.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:37 PM   #196
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 43,847
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Hey, if you need their votes to win, you play up to them. Politics 1A.
I stroke their egos, and they may not beat me to death for being gay. Sounds like a great arrangement!
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:39 PM   #197
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Hey, if you need their votes to win, you play up to them. Politics 1A.
With attacks on the gays and non whites. Worked for trump.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:40 PM   #198
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,198
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I won't. I'm sure some day his brownshirts will come for me and I'll have logger to thank for it. They always kill the educated first.
Lol

Your education has turned you into a liberal who cannot think for himself, this leads you to regurgitate whatever the latest big government elite cabal is interested in.

When will you and other libs realize small government freedom has created the greatest country ever. Yours is a dream of going backwards into failed socialistic ideas.

Don't worry though, no one from the right is coming after you, that is a tactic of the left, hillary and this election should have taught you that, but you probably justified all of her tactics.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:41 PM   #199
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Do you actually believe that fully half of the voters in the US are complete idiot retarded redneck racist sexist jerks? If Clinton had won with that same popular margin, would you then magically transform half the country into intelligent, educated, deep-thinking, magnanimous awesome folks?

Honestly, I don't think it's nearly as straightforward "us and them" as you (the collective you, referencing many of the posters in this thread) want it to be. And I genuinely don't think that the racist/sexist contingent is what swayed the vote. For one thing, I don't think there are actually that many people in the US who are so blatantly racist and sexist. If there were so many, I'd expect the entire flavor of the discussions about gender bias, institutional racial bias, etc. on this forum.
There are a lot of people in america who clearly don't care about sexism and racism, and are happy to vote for people who embody both things that they don't care about.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th November 2016, 12:41 PM   #200
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,198
Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Bring back? Lost jobs are never brought back. New jobs need to be created.

And Donald is not the one to do it, unless it benefits Donald. Remember the guy who when he needs workers (or wives), he imports them illegally.
Here is another great reason why you lost!
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:50 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.