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Tags 2016 election results , 2016 elections , donald trump , Trump controversies

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Old 9th November 2016, 02:06 PM   #241
Distracted1
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Do I really have to explain this too? Go listen to rally speeches, nothing about policy.
Its amazing how your side puts her on a pedestal, funny thing is there isn't much difference between the two, which is why it was such a volatile campaign. Happy to educate you.
Perhaps you could take the time to examine the difference between pointing out an area where someone is ignorant, and calling that same person an idiot. If that is a distinction that eludes you, perhaps it is a topic about which you are ignorant.

Thank you, however, for generously granting me an entire "side".
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:06 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Its your fault for being Gay. You should have prayed harder.
The Future VP is a big fan of turning kids straight.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:07 PM   #243
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Looks like Dow will close above 250 today.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:15 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Quote:
Its your fault for being Gay. You should have prayed harder.
The Future VP is a big fan of turning kids straight.
Of course. And with him getting rid of Planned Parenthood, the government will have all sorts of money available to afford such "Pray away the Gay" therapy.

See? Everything works out in the end!
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:16 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yes that's me, ready to retire at 43 and a WINNER.
The beauty of it is, I'm not calling these people stupid, Trump is.

I'm not fully of the mind that millions who got played by one of the most ignorant people of all time, a demonstrated liar and con man, are stupid, but intelligence is certainly not their defining characteristic.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:17 PM   #246
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Today's close:

Dow up 257
Nasdaq up 57
S&P up 27
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:18 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Sorry, I missed all the homos being beaten up for holding hands.
I didn't miss it, but then I'm gay and lived in the South for thirty years.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:21 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I didn't miss it, but then I'm gay and lived in the South for thirty years.
Hell you get that kind of thing in NYC and Philly too.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:23 PM   #249
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Trump is starting off by finally getting rid of the conspiracy of global warming perpetarting by scientists.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...e_skeptic.html

I am reminded of Eric the Viking and Hy Brazil.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:24 PM   #250
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Ironically (remember Trump's constant refrain that the "system is rigged"), Hillary Clinton joins that small group of people who ran for president and lost despite winning more popular votes, roughly 219,762 more.
Quote:
Popular vote:
  1. Clinton - 59,755,284
  2. Trump - 59,535,522
But she just didn't get the right votes. She lost Florida and Pennsylvania by a combined 188,006 votes. If she had won those two states she'd have been elected president.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:25 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I didn't miss it, but then I'm gay and lived in the South for thirty years.
Damn. Again, come to Canada.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:30 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Do I really have to explain this too? Go listen to rally speeches, nothing about policy.
Its amazing how your side puts her on a pedestal, funny thing is there isn't much difference between the two, which is why it was such a volatile campaign. Happy to educate you.
Bull. I read many of his speeches. I've never heard anyone ramble on with so little detail. "America, I'm the only one who can solve your problems. I'll make America great. Never how. I forgot, you guys believe a mythical guy in the sky can solve all your problems without telling anyone how, so why not believe the bile from the orange buffoon.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:33 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Ironically (remember Trump's constant refrain that the "system is rigged"), Hillary Clinton joins that small group of people who ran for president and lost despite winning more popular votes, roughly 219,762 more.


But she just didn't get the right votes. She lost Florida and Pennsylvania by a combined 188,006 votes. If she had won those two states she'd have been elected president.
I get Florida, that was always close. Every time ever I looked at the polling in Pennsylvania Clinton was up by 10 points.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:34 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Ironically (remember Trump's constant refrain that the "system is rigged"), Hillary Clinton joins that small group of people who ran for president and lost despite winning more popular votes, roughly 219,762 more.


But she just didn't get the right votes. She lost Florida and Pennsylvania by a combined 188,006 votes. If she had won those two states she'd have been elected president.
And if the situation was reversed how does one think the Donald would take it?

Concession phone call? No.
Multiple lawsuits? Yes
Calling for an end to the Electoral College? Yes
Never ever conceding? Yes.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:35 PM   #255
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Perhaps the best idea is to reign in those long term predictions and focus on the now? Panicky predictions are superstitious-like and serve no good purpose.

My opinion in relation to prediction is that the 'wall' will remain figurative, nazi white power attitudes will not prevail over the rational, the rational still exist within the USofA and continue to have a voice, America could do with a bit of self help rather than investing in trying to help the rest of the world with its problems...rebuild and strengthen what you have, become 'great' again...although I personally don't know when that ever happened...far as I can tell, only Britain ever had that title...but I get the sentiment and agree with its worthy principle...fix yourself and then help the world...that would indeed be Great.

Already Trump has said as much, in his speech last night after Hillary finished congratulating him via phone.

Early days. Do not panic.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:48 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Trump is starting off by finally getting rid of the conspiracy of global warming perpetarting by scientists.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...e_skeptic.html

I am reminded of Eric the Viking and Hy Brazil.
I think that is one area where I expect Trump to have a serious impact. Weakening environmental protections. Remember, most of these laws were passed because of environmental degradation and public demands the federal government take steps to protect the environment. Not because of the right wing meme that 'gubmint don't like business.' Also he is talking about weakening regulations over medical drugs. These are laws designed to protect consumers. There are many unscrupulous people out there that will gladly sell the public worthless medications if they see a profit.

He wants to scrap the Affordable Care Act and may be able to. Ironically, some the changes he wants to make were in the original legislation but were amended in order to get Republican support. It appeared then and appears now that the Republican Party is pretty much in step with the big insurance companies, medical providers and pharmaceutical firms. They liked the old way.

Also appointing the Supreme Court justices. Appointing justices like Roberts, Thomas and Scalia who are conservatives with a clear political agenda. That may eventually have an enormous impact on our society. I expect to see abortion rights and gay rights under attack.

Maybe worst of all, behind-the-scenes I expect Trump to try and game the system, it's what he has always done. And usually not too successfully.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:48 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Don't ascribe the views of the loudmouth few to a whole swath of people. I'm almost completely certain that neither racism nor homophobia have much of anything to do with the outcome of this election. Those aren't the issues at play here. A large number of states have already made strides for gay equality, in the face of a lack of progress from a liberal president. The racial issues currently at play in the US are already a topic of conversation, and will receive attention regardless of the skin color of the person in office (even if that skin is orange).
Your idea of "will receive attention" sounds outright dangerous, if not condescending. You are using the excuse that if one has done one unbigoted thing, one can no longer be or act a bigot.

Quote:
There are other issues that many people view as being more pressing. In particular, there are a large number of gun owners who very likely voted against Clinton, simply because they perceive that she would aggressively and purposefully seek to infringe the second amendment. You might agree that gun rights should be tackled... but there are a very many Americans who very strongly disagree.
In response to unfiltered fear mongering, not fact.

Quote:
Additionally, there is a very large portion of America that is completely dissatisfied with the financial state of our country. Government shut-downs, furloughs, and a constantly rising debt are things that many people find unacceptable. There's plenty of argument to be made that republicans have contributed to the financial situation as much as democrats have... but at the end of the day, it's the republican side that *claims* to want to get that debt under control; democrats haven't addressed the situation with any intent. In fact, many of the policies that democrats support are very specifically things that will cost more money, increase our debt, and increase taxes. Democrats might say they'll increase taxes on the wealthy... but what democrats continuously fail to hear is that most Americans don't want taxes to increase on anyone - they want the government to spend less money.
Well, econ is not your strong suit, I reckon.

Quote:
There are a bunch of other issues, certainly. I don't follow them all. But at the end of the day, I think you guys are ignoring the voice of the people. You're insisting that all of Trump's supporters are actually pro-Trump (rather than anti-Clinton), and you're condescendingly declaring that they're all giant dummies, and that's why Clinton lost - it's not that people have things they care about that Clinton failed to address or that represent an opposition to the democratic platform - it's just that they're all stupid, that's all. You end up acting as if the voice of all of those people doesn't matter, because you think they're stupid and what is important to them should be ignored, because you think you know better.
Sorry, but anyone who paid attention in 10th grade European History class knows enough. I studied that in the US. At public school. What, they only thumb-suck and pop opiates, now?

Quote:
Quit blaming this failure on "people are too stupid... waaahhh!". Start trying to figure out what's actually important to people, and how important it is. Start trying to figure out where the democratic platform is failing to address those needs. Start trying to understand what alternative Trump is representing.
None. There is a global labor surplus. I believe this was discussed some time ago on ISF wrt to unemployment insurance and so on. Very different approaches will be needed. Right now, with structural issues unattended, you get the highly and increasingly disparate incomes.

Quote:
That someone as asinine as Trump managed to win this election deserves a LOT more attention from you. Dismissing it like a child calling another a poopy-head isn't going to gain you any traction, nor is it going to aid you in the next election cycle. Treat this as the wake-up call that it is.
Given that the very real issues America faces actually relate to becoming a more pragmatic, fact-based, reasoned place, what do you suggest? The 21st century is decidedly not the 20th, even if it may face similar dangers, or worse. Trump is the imaginary Maginot Line against the dangers of the world. We all know how fighting and working on yesterday's assumptions can lead to catastrophic failure.

The game is geopolitics, power the currency. This currency is backed by cash and influence, only partially by muscle. Cash accrues best to those with large internal markets from which to gain the production volume and economies of scale in innovation and research to outcompete others. This is what the USA did in the second half of the 20th century. This is the 21st century, the largest market is no longer the USA, that old motor will no longer win all the races, even not for lack of trying. That new world is a result not just of trade agreements good or poor, but from contemporary market structure.

Now, USA, plan your future. My guess is that you could use friends of similar mind, exactly those you plan to push furthest away right now, exactly those who are in shock.
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Old 9th November 2016, 02:58 PM   #258
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I think the most important question is who is going to host the White House Correspondents Dinner?
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:06 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

The right here has suffered all kinds of abuse and now my post is just too much for you. I'm never letting leftists forget this pivotal generational loss they have suffered, get used to it, because I'm enjoying it.

Wonder how many tears Tony has been slurping down? Were you upset at his rhetoric?
I said mildly psychotic. That was perhaps a mistaken impression. However, if you're enjoying yourself, your favourite entertainment is harmless, and I wish you the best of fun.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:08 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
I think the most important question is who is going to host the White House Correspondents Dinner?
lol
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:18 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I've long thought that it was impossible to underestimate the intellect of the US electorate. Then, as it became apparent that Trump would lose, I had to loosen my grip on that concept. It's bleakly reassuring that I was right to begin with.
A cynic is rarely disappointed.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:31 PM   #262
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Ugh.
JUST IN: Sen Tom Cotton to CNN: "Waterboarding isn't torture..Donald Trump is a pretty tough guy and he's ready to make those tough calls"
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:33 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And here we have what Michael Moore thinks is the stupidest thing that Liberals do: Badmouth and ridicule White Blue Collar voters and Rural Voters, and wonder why they don't vote Democratic.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I guess that is something that was not predicted but still happened.

For many years, the white, middle class, semi educated demographic... (you know who I mean; the ones that worked in the steel mills and the factories and the mines, and who farmed the land and provided soldiers for all of America's wars, in other words, those who were once the backbone of America) have felt left behind, taken for granted and disenfranchised.
There is nothing Trump, or any politician, can do to help them. They are uneducated in an information age and under-skilled in a global economy. They are screwed and nothing can change that. Their jobs and way of life can no more be brought back by any political policy than we can stop puberty or the tides with a new law.

So, considering their way of life and small town economy are inevitably doomed, I had hoped they would vote for larger issues of progress and equality and not for their own personal wants and needs.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:38 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
There is nothing Trump, or any politician, can do to help them. They are uneducated in an information age and under-skilled in a global economy. They are screwed and nothing can change that. Their jobs and way of life can no more be brought back by any political policy than we can stop puberty or the tides with a new law.

So, considering their way of life and small town economy are inevitably doomed, I had hoped they would vote for larger issues of progress and equality and not for their own personal wants and needs.
That is the phoniness of Trump's promises. Most of the manufacturing jobs that left for overseas in the 70's and 80's have left China and other countries also; the robots have taken over. Now you just need one worker to watch 5 assemply line robots.
It's a crock.

Now if he talked about creating new jobs in new industries he would have had a better selling point.
I not quite ready to write off a good hunk of rural and blue collar America yet.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:55 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Bull. I read many of his speeches. I've never heard anyone ramble on with so little detail. "America, I'm the only one who can solve your problems. I'll make America great. Never how. I forgot, you guys believe a mythical guy in the sky can solve all your problems without telling anyone how, so why not believe the bile from the orange buffoon.
You're not following along, I'm talking about Hillary and I can agree the Donald did the same. I was just reminding the poster that hills loves the mud too.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:56 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
There is nothing Trump, or any politician, can do to help them. They are uneducated in an information age and under-skilled in a global economy. They are screwed and nothing can change that. Their jobs and way of life can no more be brought back by any political policy than we can stop puberty or the tides with a new law...
There is a lot of truth in the above and I'm white working class. As an example, manufacturing jobs. I worked in contract manufacturing for over twenty years. I really don't see what government can do to help manufacturing. To my understanding a lot of it is price competition. It's relentless and remorseless. If an American company that markets and sells products can get significantly lower unit costs by having those products manufactured in Mexico or overseas -- and the quality is within standards -- they are going to do so. In large part this was driven by the consumer lobby that demanded lower prices. It's price, price, price. If your product is above market price and there is nothing extraordinary about your product (something that would justify the higher price) a lot of retailers won't even put it on the shelf. I don't see how the federal government can change that. Doing away with regulations won't work. First of all, who wants regulations guaranteeing consumers a safe, sanitary product abolished? There are a few things the regulators could do away with but I don't think they would have any real significant effect on price.

During the debates they could not get Trump to answer the question, "How would you bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.A.?" He dodged and evaded and finally answered, "By not letting them leave in the first place." And that's what every candidate says. By streamlining the regulatory process, by giving tax breaks and etc. It has never worked because it is no match for a manufacturer transferring his operation overseas and getting a mammoth reduction in unit costs.

You know what they might try? Outlaw the enormous container ships that bring the stuff back from Asia. Those ships are highly automated. They virtually load and unload themselves. The transportation cost from a Chinese port to a West Coast port is pennies per unit price.

It's an uphill battle and one I don't think this country can win. Unless...the American consumer was willing to pay a premium to buy products that are manufactured here in the U.S. by 100% American labor. That's what it would take. That's what the United Auto Workers tried thirty years ago -- the Buy American! campaign -- and it didn't work then and it won't work now.

This idea Trump has floated about putting big tariffs on products manufactured overseas and exported to the U.S. will result in the American consumer paying much higher prices. High enough that yes, some of the manufacturers might give up and move the manufacturing back to the U.S. But it would be hugely inflationary and probably drive down sales.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:57 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
There is nothing Trump, or any politician, can do to help them. They are uneducated in an information age and under-skilled in a global economy. They are screwed and nothing can change that. Their jobs and way of life can no more be brought back by any political policy than we can stop puberty or the tides with a new law.

So, considering their way of life and small town economy are inevitably doomed, I had hoped they would vote for larger issues of progress and equality and not for their own personal wants and needs.
You haven't a clue, the jobs they have will always be around, the trick is getting their wages up.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:58 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
There is a lot of truth in the above and I'm white working class. As an example, manufacturing jobs. I worked in contract manufacturing for over twenty years. I really don't see what government can do to help manufacturing. To my understanding a lot of it is price competition. It's relentless and remorseless. If an American company that markets and sells products can get significantly lower unit costs by having those products manufactured in Mexico or overseas -- and the quality is within standards -- they are going to do so. In large part this was driven by the consumer lobby that demanded lower prices. It's price, price, price. If your product is above market price and there is nothing extraordinary about your product (something that would justify the higher price) a lot of retailers won't even put it on the shelf. I don't see how the federal government can change that. Doing away with regulations won't work. First of all, who wants regulations guaranteeing consumers a safe, sanitary product abolished? There are a few things the regulators could do away with but I don't think they would have any real significant effect on price.

During the debates they could not get Trump to answer the question, "How would you bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.A.?" He dodged and evaded and finally answered, "By not letting them leave in the first place." And that's what every candidate says. By streamlining the regulatory process, by giving tax breaks and etc. It has never worked because it is no match for a manufacturer transferring his operation overseas and getting a mammoth reduction in unit costs.

You know what they might try? Outlaw the enormous container ships that bring the stuff back from Asia. Those ships are highly automated. They virtually load and unload themselves. The transportation cost from a Chinese port to a West Coast port is pennies per unit price.

It's an uphill battle and one I don't think this country can win. Unless...the American consumer was willing to pay a premium to buy products that are manufactured here in the U.S. by 100% American labor. That's what it would take. That's what the United Auto Workers tried thirty years ago -- the Buy American! campaign -- and it didn't work then and it won't work now.

This idea Trump has floated about putting big tariffs on products manufactured overseas and exported to the U.S. will result in the American consumer paying much higher prices. High enough that yes, some of the manufacturers might give up and move the manufacturing back to the U.S. But it would be hugely inflationary and probably drive down sales.
All you have to do is leave this to people who know how to create jobs, libs could never figure this out.
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Old 9th November 2016, 03:59 PM   #269
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I do think the Electoral College system seems like something of a sham.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, if you have a state like California which has 55 (?) Electoral College votes, and one party wins that state by 1 voter, then that party's candidate gets the whole 55 college votes for that State. This hardly seem very democratic to me.
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:02 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I do think the Electoral College system seems like something of a sham.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, if you have a state like California which has 55 (?) Electoral College votes, and one party wins that state by 1 voter, then that party's candidate gets the whole 55 college votes for that State. This hardly seem very democratic to me.
How would you make it work for 50 states?
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:05 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You haven't a clue, the jobs they have will always be around, the trick is getting their wages up.
And a trade war is the best answer?
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:12 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You're not following along, I'm talking about Hillary and I can agree the Donald did the same. I was just reminding the poster that hills loves the mud too.
SO which Hillary speech did you listen to?
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:13 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
All you have to do is leave this to people who know how to create jobs, libs could never figure this out.
How many jobs has Donald created? Besides the ones he outsourced to illegal workers, of course.
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:13 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You haven't a clue, the jobs they have will always be around, the trick is getting their wages up.
The jobs they have will always be around? Like coal mining, auto workers, manufacturing jobs? What jobs was Trump referring to when he kept promising to "bring our jobs home?" The trick is getting their wages up? Where did you get the idea the Republican Party wants to see working people get higher wages for doing the same job? Do you just write down anything that pops into your head?

As for creating jobs, I worked for people who created manufacturing jobs, hundreds of jobs over a period of thirty years. That's where I get this from. From the meetings I used to have to sit through where we discussed in detail the challenges we faced.

People in Florida complain that they applied for jobs in Trump's resort, jobs they were qualified for, but never even got an interview. You know why? Trump was and is bringing in guest workers from Third World countries.

The situation is a lot tougher than you appear to be aware of. In a way you're very lucky.
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:15 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You haven't a clue, the jobs they have will always be around, the trick is getting their wages up.
They will always be around? How are the factory jobs still around when the factories aren't around? How are the steel mill jobs around if the steel mill doesn't exist?
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:17 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I do think the Electoral College system seems like something of a sham.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, if you have a state like California which has 55 (?) Electoral College votes, and one party wins that state by 1 voter, then that party's candidate gets the whole 55 college votes for that State. This hardly seem very democratic to me.
No and neither is states like Montana, North Dakota and Alaska all having less than 1/53 rd the population of California yet all having the same number of Senators (2)in the US Senate. Or DC having no Congressmen or Senators at all and they have a larger population than Wyoming which has 2 Senators and a Congressman.

There are all kinds of unusual idiosyncrasies in the government of the United States. Our form of government stinks. It's been copied, but not very successfully. It is shocking in many ways that it has survived this long. Parliamentary systems are better in my opinion.
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:17 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
You know what they might try? Outlaw the enormous container ships that bring the stuff back from Asia. Those ships are highly automated. They virtually load and unload themselves. The transportation cost from a Chinese port to a West Coast port is pennies per unit price.
Another thing they might try is to whack a huge import duty/levy on finished items being imported from overseas that they deem could have been manufactured in the USA. e.g. if apple makes iPhones in Asia, they pay a 40% levy per phone, if theymake them in the USA, no levy.

Not saying I agree with it, just suggesting that they might try something like this!
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:18 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

Your education has turned you into a liberal who cannot think for himself, this leads you to regurgitate whatever the latest big government elite cabal is interested in.

When will you and other libs realize small government freedom has created the greatest country ever. Yours is a dream of going backwards into failed socialistic ideas.

Don't worry though, no one from the right is coming after you, that is a tactic of the left, hillary and this election should have taught you that, but you probably justified all of her tactics.
I was just looking at county by county results. Hillary won every county with a college.

Education Is The Other.
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:18 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I do think the Electoral College system seems like something of a sham.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, if you have a state like California which has 55 (?) Electoral College votes, and one party wins that state by 1 voter, then that party's candidate gets the whole 55 college votes for that State. This hardly seem very democratic to me.
First, each state can allocate their electoral college delegates however they wish. The simple majority rule is not required and two states do not use it.

Second, there are other important values than democracy. The UN does not use global population votes nor assign proportional representation based on population. The EU is bicameral with the council having one vote per nation. The idea that there is a circle of equals among nations is an important value in unions. The electoral college manages to reflect both values at once.
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Old 9th November 2016, 04:24 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
...This idea Trump has floated about putting big tariffs on products manufactured overseas and exported to the U.S. will result in the American consumer paying much higher prices. High enough that yes, some of the manufacturers might give up and move the manufacturing back to the U.S. But it would be hugely inflationary and probably drive down sales.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Another thing they might try is to whack a huge import duty/levy on finished items being imported from overseas that they deem could have been manufactured in the USA. e.g. if apple makes iPhones in Asia, they pay a 40% levy per phone, if they make them in the USA, no levy. Not saying I agree with it, just suggesting that they might try something like this!
Trump has suggested that. But it's a tough problem. Don't forget, there's some very smart people who have invested a lot of time and effort on trying to solve this. The problem with the punitive tariff is, it will tend to raise prices on consumer goods and that is inflationary and also tends to drive down sales. It also usually triggers retaliation from the overseas nations.

There is no simple solution, it's a very very tough problem. When I suggested outlawing modern container ships I was being facetious. If there was a simple solution someone would have found it thirty years ago.
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