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Tags racism charges , Trump supporters

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Old 22nd November 2016, 12:10 PM   #201
NoahFence
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Whoever said it was disqualifying? What disqualifies Hillary is that she didn't win 270 electoral votes. There were many factors going into that, although I suspect the main one was that most people wanted a change.
My goodness.

Ignorant of basic facts? Didn't see that coming.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 12:11 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Most people?
I think so. Many of them didn't want the kind of change that Trump represented, and still voted for Hillary or didn't vote at all, but I think most people are kind of sick of the status quo. This was a change election. The only reason the Democrats still had a decent chance of winning was that the Republicans ended up with the wackiest nominee in modern history.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 12:20 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I think so. Many of them didn't want the kind of change that Trump represented, and still voted for Hillary or didn't vote at all, but I think most people are kind of sick of the status quo. This was a change election. The only reason the Democrats still had a decent chance of winning was that the Republicans ended up with the wackiest nominee in modern history.
The only people we can objectively say had an opinion one way or the other were the ones who actually voted, and fewer of them voted for Dirty Don than for Crooked Hillary.

As for the use of "wackiest" when describing Trump...Okay, why not. I guess Mussolini was "a hoot"?
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Old 22nd November 2016, 12:28 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The only people we can objectively say had an opinion one way or the other were the ones who actually voted, and fewer of them voted for Dirty Don than for Crooked Hillary.

As for the use of "wackiest" when describing Trump...Okay, why not. I guess Mussolini was "a hoot"?
It's a bit early to compare Trump favorably with Mussolini, don't you think? Even the Nobel Prize committee waited 9 months into Obama's Presidency before giving him the Peace Prize.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 05:15 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
That doesn't surprise me at all. You are highly partisan and so it's not surprising that you don't care about scandals coming from your team.
I would if it was a real scandal. Using a private server that may have been less secure and may have led to inadvertently disclosing secrets is not a big deal to me.

Actually purposefully selling secrets? That I would care about.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 05:53 PM   #206
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Old 22nd November 2016, 06:44 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Root of racism and bigotry? Hardly. In the past, they were the party that was far more strongly associated with racism and bigotry, yes, though. These days, they are not, however. The Republican Party, on the other hand, has been trending a path in somewhat the opposite direction, though, since they decided to increasingly court Christian supremacy groups and anti-science groups.
In truth, the GOP basically walked away from a serious commitment to equality in 1877, which led to the collapse of Reconstruction and a move to Jim Crow and terrorism. By around 1900, the lily-white movement had become a force in the GOP, which is exactly what the name says. This is part of why Black Americans were ready to support FDR when he put together the New Deal, despite the fact that even that was largely (but not entirely) crafted to keep them out as well. But the notion that either party is historically "the" party of racism is laughable.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 06:50 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
It would be fair to say that I sure didn't care about it at all.



Which has what to do with NAFTA? Those jobs moved because people in other country can do the same job for far less. NAFTA did not create that situation simple supply and demand did.



Again, NAFTA had nothing to do with this. Free trade existed before NAFTA and will exist after. If Mexico had been an industrialized nation in the 50's you can bet that GM and Ford would have relocated there sooner.



Of course this overlooks that Liberals have proposed and tried to implement other solutions. Like retraining programs and making universities more affordable. Things that the Republicans have opposed at every turn.



Except that they are not being oppressed. They are in a very unfortunate situation. One with few answers. The government cannot directly create jobs there and until the population gains new skills they will continue to not be very employable in a global economy.



Well alrighty. I'll say that it isn't racist. Detroit was an economic time bomb. Too large a city built around one industry with too many workers that were all under skilled for other jobs. It was bound to be a disaster from its inception.

Travis, I knew you would mention the Republican connection with NAFTA. I will just point out the all important final negotiations were completed by Democrats during the Bill Clinton Administration. As an example of the differences that were applied, simply look to the latest scam attempt called TPP. Democrats are all for it, yet Republicans are not. There's a reason for this.

Now, to look upon NAFTA favorably is foolish for the US citizen. Of course free trade is a good thing, however trade imbalance is not. Manipulating your Country's currency value is not. This is exactly why factories across the US, about 70,000 of them, have shut down and relocated outside the USA. NAFTA is the "Globalist" answer to redistribution of wealth. The idea is to take jobs and industry from one Country and give them to another that has been less fortunate. 70,000 factories. That's a lot of Americans out of work. So this has not been the best thing for the US. Let's combat poverty sure, but not at the cost of creating it here within the US as a result. NAFTA has been disastrous for the US and nothing short of a miracle for Mexico and China. However, enough is enough. NAFTA must go or be renegotiated completely. That's the only answer that will work.

Democrats were and are responsible for the final draft and approval of NAFTA.
If you're in the US, you have witnessed the results, unless you have been shielded in one of the West Coast states. Our industrial middle "rust belt" has been all but destroyed. To deny this is beyond ignorance. To deny that Democrats tend to group minorities within large cities likewise. To deny Democrats have purposely left an entire group of people out of the American dream is outrageous. I only hope these same people find relief during the Trump admin.


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Old 22nd November 2016, 06:53 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I only hope these same people find relief during the Trump admin.
Hope is not a method.
(Shamelessly stolen from General Gordon Sullivan, Chief of Staff, US Army, mid 1990's).
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Old 22nd November 2016, 06:57 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
In truth, the GOP basically walked away from a serious commitment to equality in 1877, which led to the collapse of Reconstruction and a move to Jim Crow and terrorism. By around 1900, the lily-white movement had become a force in the GOP, which is exactly what the name says. This is part of why Black Americans were ready to support FDR when he put together the New Deal, despite the fact that even that was largely (but not entirely) crafted to keep them out as well. But the notion that either party is historically "the" party of racism is laughable.
Laughable from a certain point of view that is. I have two words for you.
"Robert Byrd" Chris B.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 06:58 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Hope is not a method.
(Shamelessly stolen from General Gordon Sullivan, Chief of Staff, US Army, mid 1990's).
Hope and Change was a scam in 2008, I'll give you that. Chris B.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 07:07 PM   #212
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
A very creative way to present a bad argument.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 07:25 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I would if it was a real scandal. Using a private server that may have been less secure and may have led to inadvertently disclosing secrets is not a big deal to me.

Actually purposefully selling secrets? That I would care about.
If it violated explicit rules, then it was a real scandal. If she was not altogether honest, it was again a real scandal. I think both of these things are true, but I'm not too well informed on the issues.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 07:50 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Laughable from a certain point of view that is. I have two words for you.
"Robert Byrd" Chris B.
You're new around here? Been camping out with the boyz through the last ten years. "Oh, yeah!? Robert Byrd!" gives me Coulter Alt-History Bingo! I win with five across diagonally!

(The premise being that Republican bigotry apologists will pull out certain cards in any discussion. You've got most of them, but "Oh, yeah?! Robert Byrd!" was the middle box.)

So three words for you "Two Thousand Sixteen". What Beauregard P. Entwhistle III did back in '47 doesn't interest us. The fact that Lincoln freed the slaves has nothing to do with voter oppression in the 20teens. The Dixiecrats be dead, bro! The Klan votes GOP. The neo-nazis vote GOP. The alt-right is bragging that they won the election for the GOP. The bigots in the country, regardless of how high one pegs the number, if they vote, vote GOP.

You are welcome to agree with their programs but don't try to sell us on that Coulter Crap... that the Republicans are the REAL party of the black voter. If you do, at least gin up your game. "Nyah nyah, you're the party of the Klan and bigotry" winds up biting you in the ass.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 08:29 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
With due respect, the fact that Hillary violated rules by having her own email server, very likely to avoid FOIA requests, is troublesome for anyone who prefers transparency. That she seemed to prevaricate about the presence of classified information is also troublesome.

I think she would've been a decent president. I also think that her (more or less understandable) tendency for privacy was troubling, especially when it leads to apparent violations of rules. We might wonder whether transparency is appropriate for a Secretary of State, but that's another matter.

The email thing bothered me, not because a private server can't be secure or because the gov't does security better, but because it seemed intended to avoid transparency rules.
Perhaps, but transparency doesn't seem to be a factor when it comes to Trump, who's financial and current dealings are opaque.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 08:31 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I think so..
You can think what you want. Facts do not support your opinion.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 08:36 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It's a strange world when having a husband who is a philanderer and alleged sexual predator is disqualifying but being a philanderer and proudly boasting about sexual assualts oneself is not
Who made that argument?
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Old 22nd November 2016, 08:40 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Who made that argument?
Trump supporters did, when they voted for Trump.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 08:50 PM   #219
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By the same token, Hillary voters supported a rapist enabler...



Which one did you go for?
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Old 22nd November 2016, 08:52 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
By the same token, Hillary voters supported a rapist enabler...



Which one did you go for?
What rape are you referring to and by whom?
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Old 22nd November 2016, 09:06 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I think so. Many of them didn't want the kind of change that Trump represented, and still voted for Hillary or didn't vote at all, but I think most people are kind of sick of the status quo. This was a change election. The only reason the Democrats still had a decent chance of winning was that the Republicans ended up with the wackiest nominee in modern history.
Not really. Looking at the exit polling data seems to indicate that this was very much a "vote against the other side" election. Large numbers in both parties had reservations about their candidate, but hated the other one more.

Hillary was just too toxic and it motivated the Republican base. If Bernie had been the nom, the Rs wouldn't have had all the corruption stuff to smear him with.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 09:09 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It's a strange world when having a husband who is a philanderer and alleged sexual predator being a Democrat is disqualifying but being a philanderer and proudly boasting about sexual assualts oneself is not
IOKIYAAR
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Old 22nd November 2016, 09:14 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Whoever said it was disqualifying? What disqualifies Hillary is that she didn't win 270 electoral votes. There were many factors going into that, although I suspect the main one was that most people wanted a change.
In context, Don was referring to the claim that they disqualified her so people should not have voted for her, and that Trump's supporters voted against her when Trump himself did very similar things.

If morals were consistently applied evenly, then people should have massively voted 3rd party or not voted at all.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 09:16 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I would if it was a real scandal. Using a private server that may have been less secure and may have led to inadvertently disclosing secrets is not a big deal to me.

Actually purposefully selling secrets? That I would care about.
And now the Don is making official calls on his own unsecured phone lines.

The functional theme of politics in the US right now seems to be naked hypocrisy.

BTW: Bannon isn't the only problematic link to no-nazisim and the really dark end of that part of the political spectrum.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/08...ovement/212502

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Old 22nd November 2016, 09:35 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Perhaps, but transparency doesn't seem to be a factor when it comes to Trump, who's financial and current dealings are opaque.
Keeping things in perspective is quite reasonable, so long as one isn't trying to give a free pass to one's preferred side, like more than a few people did and are doing very obviously.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 09:39 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I think most people are kind of sick of the status quo. This was a change election.
The grass is always greener on the other side of the hill, and many people are sick of living in the real world where problems are hard and solutions are messy. But will they find it any better on the other side?

Reality doesn't go away just because you are sick of it. I predict a lot of Trump supporters are going to be very disappointed in the next 4 years. Just like the Tea Party, and all the other idiots who think that knee-jerk reactions and simplistic solutions are the answer to all their problems.

Quote:
The only reason the Democrats still had a decent chance of winning was that the Republicans ended up with the wackiest nominee in modern history.
If they had ended up with Bush then Hillary would have been a shoe-in.
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Old 22nd November 2016, 10:08 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
A very creative way to present a bad argument.
true, its completely ad hom but it is also very funny.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 12:40 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Travis, I knew you would mention the Republican connection with NAFTA. I will just point out the all important final negotiations were completed by Democrats during the Bill Clinton Administration. As an example of the differences that were applied, simply look to the latest scam attempt called TPP. Democrats are all for it, yet Republicans are not. There's a reason for this.

Now, to look upon NAFTA favorably is foolish for the US citizen. Of course free trade is a good thing, however trade imbalance is not. Manipulating your Country's currency value is not. This is exactly why factories across the US, about 70,000 of them, have shut down and relocated outside the USA. NAFTA is the "Globalist" answer to redistribution of wealth. The idea is to take jobs and industry from one Country and give them to another that has been less fortunate. 70,000 factories. That's a lot of Americans out of work. So this has not been the best thing for the US. Let's combat poverty sure, but not at the cost of creating it here within the US as a result. NAFTA has been disastrous for the US and nothing short of a miracle for Mexico and China. However, enough is enough. NAFTA must go or be renegotiated completely. That's the only answer that will work.

Democrats were and are responsible for the final draft and approval of NAFTA.
If you're in the US, you have witnessed the results, unless you have been shielded in one of the West Coast states. Our industrial middle "rust belt" has been all but destroyed. To deny this is beyond ignorance. To deny that Democrats tend to group minorities within large cities likewise. To deny Democrats have purposely left an entire group of people out of the American dream is outrageous. I only hope these same people find relief during the Trump admin.


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Americans do not have a right to all the jobs. Jobs belong to people. People who may or may not be in the USA. I don't care about America. I care about the whole world.

Eventually an equilibrium will be reached and low skill jobs will stop leaving America. In the meantime the best course of action for Americans is to try and improve their skills.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 12:53 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Most people?
Standard GOP tactic, polling less than 50% of the votes cast, indeed attracting fewer votes than your opponent somehow represents a rock-solid presidential mandate because the 45% of eligible voters who didn't bother to register and/or vote can be counted as tacitly supporting your candidate

OTOH a president who polls comfortably more than 50% of the votes cast and overwhelmingly wins the electoral college does not have a mandate and must be blocked at every turn because.......melanin
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Old 23rd November 2016, 12:57 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Who made that argument?
The Trump campaign and its fellow travelers when they said not to vote for Hillary because she didn't divorce Bill for playing hide-the-sausage with other women. Of course had she done so then she would instead have been castigated for divorcing him.

OTOH thrice-married Trump is a perfect advert for traditional Christian family values
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Old 23rd November 2016, 12:58 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
And now the Don is making official calls on his own unsecured phone lines.
I really am not you know
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Old 23rd November 2016, 02:48 AM   #232
Aridas
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Americans do not have a right to all the jobs.
That's enough said, really, to grasp the credibility of your position. No Americans claimed that Americans have a right to all the jobs in the first place here, after all.

Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Jobs belong to people.
And your thoughts on the loss of jobs to non-people or automation actually reflect this?

Originally Posted by Travis View Post
People who may or may not be in the USA. I don't care about America. I care about the whole world.

Eventually an equilibrium will be reached and low skill jobs will stop leaving America. In the meantime the best course of action for Americans is to try and improve their skills.
While it's good that you're thinking of all humanity, one of a good government's primary roles is to be an administration who are directly seeking to improve the lot of their citizens. Pushing jobs out of the hands of their citizens is generally not a sign of the government act being a good one.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 03:40 AM   #233
Argumemnon
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
By the same token, Hillary voters supported a rapist enabler...
What rape?
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Old 23rd November 2016, 06:08 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
The grass is always greener on the other side of the hill, and many people are sick of living in the real world where problems are hard and solutions are messy. But will they find it any better on the other side?

Reality doesn't go away just because you are sick of it. I predict a lot of Trump supporters are going to be very disappointed in the next 4 years. Just like the Tea Party, and all the other idiots who think that knee-jerk reactions and simplistic solutions are the answer to all their problems.
Any movement is going to use simplistic catch phrases. What's truly idiotic is when the President of the US actually thinks simplistic solutions will work. We've had 8 years of that crap. Time for a change.

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If they had ended up with Bush then Hillary would have been a shoe-in.
What's that? You sure she wouldn't have been a loch?
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Old 23rd November 2016, 06:11 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What rape?
Bill Clinton likely raped Juanita Broaddrick, although I suspect you already knew of the allegation.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 06:29 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Bill Clinton likely raped Juanita Broaddrick, although I suspect you already knew of the allegation.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that allegations now amounted to guilt.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 06:34 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that allegations now amounted to guilt.
We don't generally use establishment of guilt by a jury as our evidentiary standard for political opinions here.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 06:47 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
We don't generally use establishment of guilt by a jury as our evidentiary standard for political opinions here.
Who are "we" here?

Bill Clinton was never convicted of rape. Juanita Broaddrick's accusation was so non-credible that even Ken Starr rejected it.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 07:17 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
We don't generally use establishment of guilt by a jury as our evidentiary standard for political opinions here.
What the hell is the point of a skeptics' forum, if our standard of truth is the same as the common woo-woo?

You're basically saying that the allegation is enough. Why? Does this apply to everybody? Or just liberals?
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Old 23rd November 2016, 07:21 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What the hell is the point of a skeptics' forum, if our standard of truth is the same as the common woo-woo?

You're basically saying that the allegation is enough. Why? Does this apply to everybody? Or just liberals?
Of course not. If it did, Trump would be guilty of raping a 13 year old girl.

It's, as you say, only applied to liberals.
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