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Tags racism charges , Trump supporters

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Old 23rd November 2016, 07:22 AM   #241
sunmaster14
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What the hell is the point of a skeptics' forum, if our standard of truth is the same as the common woo-woo?
If you want to discuss it, then discuss it. The evidence is quite strong.

Quote:
You're basically saying that the allegation is enough. Why? Does this apply to everybody? Or just liberals?
A credible allegation is enough to form an opinion. It applies to everybody.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 07:25 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Perhaps, but transparency doesn't seem to be a factor when it comes to Trump, who's financial and current dealings are opaque.
Certainly, Trump is a much greater concern in terms of transparency, so if the choice is between the two of them, the email thing is easy to ignore. But that particular issue nonetheless concerned me -- it was just way overshadowed by Trump's various issues.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 07:25 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
If you want to discuss it, then discuss it. The evidence is quite strong.
Why are you asking me? I'm not the one making the claim.

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A credible allegation is enough to form an opinion.
Why is it credible if unproven?
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Old 23rd November 2016, 07:42 AM   #244
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post

Why is it credible if unproven?
The allegation was so shady that Ken Starr wouldn't pursue it, the guy the Republicans hired to take Clinton down.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 08:55 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What rape?
Democrats Agree Trump's Accusers Should Be Believed. So, Here's a Full List of Every One of Bill Clinton's


I admit it was was only accusations by the alleged victims, but that's all we have from Trump's accusers of sexual misconduct...

.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 08:56 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Democrats Agree Trump's Accusers Should Be Believed. So, Here's a Full List of Every One of Bill Clinton's


I admit it was was only accusations by the alleged victims, but that's all we have from Trump's accusers of sexual misconduct...

.
....apart from Trump's own comments about grabbing women and hanging out in the changing rooms of Miss Teen USA
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Old 23rd November 2016, 09:04 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
I don't care what their opinion is. Do we have any reason to believe that the accusations are true? And why include Lewinsky in there?

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I admit it was was only accusations by the alleged victims, but that's all we have from Trump's accusers of sexual misconduct...
Really? Has Bill Clinton bragged openly about assaulting women?
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Old 23rd November 2016, 11:48 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I don't care what their opinion is. Do we have any reason to believe that the accusations are true?
Just as much reason as we do to believe the accusations against Trump are true.. ( personal bias aside. )

Quote:
And why include Lewinsky in there?
I wasn't really arguing the merits of each case, but since you ask; do you really not see the problem with the POTUS having sex with an intern?

Interesting that you picked the one case where the evidence is pretty much in the bag..


Quote:
Really? Has Bill Clinton bragged openly about assaulting women?
That wasn't the argument I was responding to...

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Old 23rd November 2016, 11:59 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Just as much reason as we do to believe the accusations against Trump are true.. ( personal bias aside. )
Except, again, that Trump has bragged about it, which in my book makes it more believable.

Quote:
I wasn't really arguing the merits of each case, but since you ask; do you really not see the problem with the POTUS having sex with an intern?
That wasn't what we were discussing. We were discussing assault. Consentual relationships don't count.

Quote:
Interesting that you picked the one case where the evidence is pretty much in the bag..
Interesting that you forgot that you were accusing him of RAPE, not cheating on his wife.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 11:59 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Democrats Agree Trump's Accusers Should Be Believed. So, Here's a Full List of Every One of Bill Clinton's

I admit it was was only accusations by the alleged victims, but that's all we have from Trump's accusers of sexual misconduct...

.
Well, not quite.

Some of the accusations, if I'm not mistaken, come from years ago. And they are similar to the activities that Trump brags about when trying to impress Billy Bush. And that's something.

Also, if we're simply speaking of Trump's infidelities rather than his alleged assaults, they are beyond reasonable doubt. To be sure, that Clinton had infidelities is also beyond reasonable doubt, so let's agree there.

The question remains: if Bill Clinton's infidelities are relevant to Hillary's campaign, why aren't Trump's equally undeniable infidelities relevant to whether Trump would be a good president? And the trick here is not to pretend that we know Bill was a rapist, because that's not really indisputable. What is indisputable is that both Trump and Bill have a history of marital infidelities. What is pretty clear as well is that Trump has a history of sexual assault as he described it, but we can let that pass.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 12:05 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Just as much reason as we do to believe the accusations against Trump are true.. ( personal bias aside. )
Mr. Skeptical, please consider the following situation.

P: Dr. A alleges in a tape from 4 years ago that a certain measurement was obtained two years prior. If this were true, then Dr. A would be guilty of a gross ethical violation. The tape was not made public until yesterday.

Q: Dr. B also claimed five years ago that the same measurement was obtained.

X: The measurement actually was obtained.

Question: Is Prob(X | Q & P) > P(X | Q)?

If so, then you must admit that this isn't just about the testimony from Trump's accusers. It's also that Trump said he did similar stuff. This matters.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 04:12 PM   #252
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I wasn't arguing the merits of any of the accusations from either side.

I was responding to the claim that all of Hillary's scandals were made up...

Glad you're getting a lot of mileage out of it, though...
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Old 23rd November 2016, 04:31 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
I wasn't arguing the merits of any of the accusations from either side.

I was responding to the claim that all of Hillary's scandals were made up...
It's made up if there's nothing to it.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 05:08 PM   #254
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The allegation isn't that Bill raped, but that Hillary is a "rape enabler."

Nonsense, of course, but yay President Pussy Grabber.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 05:28 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
The allegation isn't that Bill raped, but that Hillary is a "rape enabler."

Nonsense, of course, but yay President Pussy Grabber.
I can't grab my pussy wrap my head around that, either.
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Old 24th November 2016, 12:10 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
That's enough said, really, to grasp the credibility of your position. No Americans claimed that Americans have a right to all the jobs in the first place here, after all.
They claim they have exclusive rights to the jobs they currently posses. And I say they don't.

Look it doesn't really matter to me if America suffers if it helps other nations get better. Likewise I don't really care if rural Americans go jobless if it helps other people in other nations.
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Old 24th November 2016, 02:05 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
They claim they have exclusive rights to the jobs they currently posses. And I say they don't.

Look it doesn't really matter to me if America suffers if it helps other nations get better. Likewise I don't really care if rural Americans go jobless if it helps other people in other nations.
That is what you had said before, after all.
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Old 24th November 2016, 11:41 PM   #258
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And I wanted to repeat it so there is no ambiguity.

If Trump was a brick through the window to make us pay attention to underemployed rednecks it will work but only inasmuch as it makes me want to destroy them faster.
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Old 25th November 2016, 03:45 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
And I wanted to repeat it so there is no ambiguity.

If Trump was a brick through the window to make us pay attention to underemployed rednecks it will work but only inasmuch as it makes me want to destroy them faster.
What would be your preferred method of destroying them ?
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Old 25th November 2016, 09:26 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
And I wanted to repeat it so there is no ambiguity.

If Trump was a brick through the window to make us pay attention to underemployed rednecks it will work but only inasmuch as it makes me want to destroy them faster.
Previously, you claimed to have been told (more times than you can count) by Trump supporters that you should be placed in a camp, or some such extreme bs. While I'm still highly dubious of that claim, I can more easily envision it having happening seeing that you spout this sort of inflamatory rhetoric.

If nothing else, this election has been a bitter reminder that frothing, mindless extremism isn't the exclusive domain of the right.
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Old 25th November 2016, 07:52 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Previously, you claimed to have been told (more times than you can count) by Trump supporters that you should be placed in a camp, or some such extreme bs. While I'm still highly dubious of that claim, I can more easily envision it having happening seeing that you spout this sort of inflamatory rhetoric.

If nothing else, this election has been a bitter reminder that frothing, mindless extremism isn't the exclusive domain of the right.
You prefer I lie to people and tell them I like them when I hate them with my every fiber of being?
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Old 25th November 2016, 11:14 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
You prefer I lie to people and tell them I like them when I hate them with my every fiber of being?
Why do you live somewhere that makes you miserable?
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Old 26th November 2016, 09:40 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
You prefer I lie to people and tell them I like them when I hate them with my every fiber of being?
I'm not prescribing your behavoir. It's your choice if you want to live your life consumed by seething hatred and irrationality. You should realize though that indulgence in these sorts of feelings is apt to distort your perceptions, making you an unreliable observer.
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Old 26th November 2016, 04:56 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
And I wanted to repeat it so there is no ambiguity.

If Trump was a brick through the window to make us pay attention to underemployed rednecks it will work but only inasmuch as it makes me want to destroy them faster.

If the left ever wonders why it lost the rust belt.


Quote:
You prefer I lie to people and tell them I like them when I hate them with my every fiber of being?

I'm probably wasting my time, but seriously, Travis. For as long as I can remember reading your posts on this board, you've come across as completely miserable. Life is short. Maybe it's time to try something different, no?
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Old 26th November 2016, 08:57 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Laughable from a certain point of view that is. I have two words for you.
"Robert Byrd" Chris B.
Actually, those are two very good words - they indicate a path I'd like to see the GOP in general follow starting today.

Byrd was, at first, a klansman, a segregationist, etc. at some point, he reformed, apologized for what he did, and became a force for civil rights. HE was still somewhat crass, but his actions showed that he was truly sorry for what he had done beforehand. And he does deserve credit for that.

At this point, the only person in the GOP I can see who gives a damn about civil rights, and is consistent in his "small government" views is Rand Paul. And while I disagree with his philosophy, there are certainly areas where we strongly agree, such as police militarization. I would like to see people like John McCain or Lindsay Graham step up on civil rights issues at the national level as well, I certainly think it's in their grasp. But at this point, the GOP is led by a white nationalist, and it's up to them to fix the situation. Until then, **** 'em. Again, we can hear y'all.
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Old 26th November 2016, 09:11 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
You prefer I lie to people and tell them I like them when I hate them with my every fiber of being?
I think that would be preferable.

I think I have to pull your card on this one. Your anger is an indulgence that people like my family cannot afford. When you lash out at them, they vote to harm us. And then we move to defend ourselves, and it becomes a mess, because we certainly won't let crap slide.

People like that certainly won't listen to me. I'm either taking "their" money through "welfare", or taking "their" jobs through "affirmative Action". Trust me, I've tried, does not work.

You may be able to, if you listen, and think about how to get through to them. So Why not do that, instead? Obviously, that doesn't mean that you just say you like them, and leave it at that. But try to get them to think about things as well. I've seen "white" people get through to one another on these issues before.
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Old 26th November 2016, 09:38 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Why do you live somewhere that makes you miserable?
Family.
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Old 27th November 2016, 04:56 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
You're new around here? Been camping out with the boyz through the last ten years. "Oh, yeah!? Robert Byrd!" gives me Coulter Alt-History Bingo! I win with five across diagonally!

(The premise being that Republican bigotry apologists will pull out certain cards in any discussion. You've got most of them, but "Oh, yeah?! Robert Byrd!" was the middle box.)

So three words for you "Two Thousand Sixteen". What Beauregard P. Entwhistle III did back in '47 doesn't interest us. The fact that Lincoln freed the slaves has nothing to do with voter oppression in the 20teens. The Dixiecrats be dead, bro! The Klan votes GOP. The neo-nazis vote GOP. The alt-right is bragging that they won the election for the GOP. The bigots in the country, regardless of how high one pegs the number, if they vote, vote GOP.

You are welcome to agree with their programs but don't try to sell us on that Coulter Crap... that the Republicans are the REAL party of the black voter. If you do, at least gin up your game. "Nyah nyah, you're the party of the Klan and bigotry" winds up biting you in the ass.
The Klan votes GOP today as a result of leaving the Democratic Party in protest of the pandering to Black voters and minority groups that they view as a threat to their traditions and values, given that those sort of values are considered warped by most Americans. Regardless, to ignore the philosophy that created it is an insult to intelligence. I realize this is something the Democrat party is not proud of, but one must admit had it not been for their actions there wouldn't be large minority groups to take advantage of today.

Ask yourself who has been in charge of these problem inner cities? Who lives there and who has been elected to help those in the inner cities? Whatever philosophy you share, one has to admit that there is a problem within these communities. One must admit that those in office there have been Democrats. This leads to a simple question.....Why are these areas still a problem? It's certainly not Republicans keeping them down. So what gives?

Obviously something is wrong. It doesn't matter whether you are Republican or Democrat I'm certain we all want safety and prosperity for all those Americans that have been left out of the American dream. My children can play outside safely, I expect the same for everyone else's kids. Every American deserves safety and security. Every American deserves the dignity of a job and one that pays enough to support his family. The American dream is still alive, but it's been relocated to Mexico and China.

What has been happening to these people is outrageous and disgusting. And yes, the Democrats in charge have done nothing to fix it. Are their actions Racist? Absolutely. The inner cities are modern day plantations. Defend that.
Chris B.
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Old 27th November 2016, 05:23 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Actually, those are two very good words - they indicate a path I'd like to see the GOP in general follow starting today.

Byrd was, at first, a klansman, a segregationist, etc. at some point, he reformed, apologized for what he did, and became a force for civil rights. HE was still somewhat crass, but his actions showed that he was truly sorry for what he had done beforehand. And he does deserve credit for that.

At this point, the only person in the GOP I can see who gives a damn about civil rights, and is consistent in his "small government" views is Rand Paul. And while I disagree with his philosophy, there are certainly areas where we strongly agree, such as police militarization. I would like to see people like John McCain or Lindsay Graham step up on civil rights issues at the national level as well, I certainly think it's in their grasp. But at this point, the GOP is led by a white nationalist, and it's up to them to fix the situation. Until then, **** 'em. Again, we can hear y'all.
Oh my, you are in deep. Byrd was still making racist statements in 2001 so no, you can't take the racist out of the man simply because he pandered to a single minority group for votes in public. Career politicians tend to say whatever they need to say to get elected.


In the 2016 election ask yourself, which Presidential candidate spoke to ALL Americans of ALL races during their campaign? And which candidate simply ignored a large part of the population because they thought THAT vote was unimportant and not needed to win?

Are you quite certain your chosen team represents ALL Americans or just the most likely voting groups for their party?

Something to think about. Chris B.
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Old 27th November 2016, 06:46 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The Klan votes GOP today as a result of leaving the Democratic Party in protest of the pandering to Black voters and minority groups that they view as a threat to their traditions and values, given that those sort of values are considered warped by most Americans. Regardless, to ignore the philosophy that created it is an insult to intelligence. I realize this is something the Democrat party is not proud of, but one must admit had it not been for their actions there wouldn't be large minority groups to take advantage of today.

Ask yourself who has been in charge of these problem inner cities? Who lives there and who has been elected to help those in the inner cities? Whatever philosophy you share, one has to admit that there is a problem within these communities. One must admit that those in office there have been Democrats. This leads to a simple question.....Why are these areas still a problem? It's certainly not Republicans keeping them down. So what gives?

Obviously something is wrong. It doesn't matter whether you are Republican or Democrat I'm certain we all want safety and prosperity for all those Americans that have been left out of the American dream. My children can play outside safely, I expect the same for everyone else's kids. Every American deserves safety and security. Every American deserves the dignity of a job and one that pays enough to support his family. The American dream is still alive, but it's been relocated to Mexico and China.

What has been happening to these people is outrageous and disgusting. And yes, the Democrats in charge have done nothing to fix it. Are their actions Racist? Absolutely. The inner cities are modern day plantations. Defend that.
Chris B.
Platitudes. Ignorant platitudes. If the problem is Democratic Party administrations, how do you explain how poorly rural Southern blacks are doing under Republican administrations? Cities do not control their own destinies. They have to, in many cases, deal with state legislatures that are GOP controlled and with a Congress that is hell-bent on cutting budgets of all social programs.

At least the GOP are equal opportunity screwers, I guess. They screw the white poor along with the black. The difference seeming to be that the white poor bend over and say, "Thank you sir. May I have another?"
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Old 30th November 2016, 01:55 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Is there a point at which turning a blind eye to something stops someone being a good person ?
Yes. Always.
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Old 30th November 2016, 02:06 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that allegations now amounted to guilt.
They do when there's a hashtag #ibelievejuanita
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Old 30th November 2016, 02:14 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
...

Byrd was, at first, a klansman, a segregationist, etc. at some point, he reformed, apologized for what he did, and became a force for civil rights. HE was still somewhat crass, but his actions showed that he was truly sorry for what he had done beforehand. And he does deserve credit for that.

.....
You'd have a better case arguing he had no strong feelings either way on the subject.

When the Democrat leadership wanted him to be racist, he joined the Klan, when they wanted him to decry racism, he expressed contrition for that political error.
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Old 30th November 2016, 04:37 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Democrats Agree Trump's Accusers Should Be Believed. So, Here's a Full List of Every One of Bill Clinton's


I admit it was was only accusations by the alleged victims, but that's all we have from Trump's accusers of sexual misconduct...

.
Wait now Trump is a victim of Trumps sexual misconduct? We have his own words that he sexually assaults women and barges in on the changing rooms of teenagers.

I know Trump is not the most reliable of informers on the actions of himself but he should still be counted in those accusing him of doing these things.
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Old 30th November 2016, 05:21 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
They do when there's a hashtag #ibelievejuanita
Only if it's trending.
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Old 30th November 2016, 11:41 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
You'd have a better case arguing he had no strong feelings either way on the subject.

When the Democrat leadership wanted him to be racist, he joined the Klan, when they wanted him to decry racism, he expressed contrition for that political error.
You work with what you have. Again, I won't argue that the dems are all saints, or that republicans are all racist devils. Neither one is true.

Byrd would not have been my choice for senator or whatever. But at the same time, it's worth noting that he did reform. It's worth applause, regardless of why he did it.
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Old 4th December 2016, 05:12 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Can I point to this thread in the future when addressing claims that all white Americans are racist? Because if that's the case, then all white Trump supporters being racist follows automatically (as does all white Clinton supporters being racist, all white Obama supporters being racist, and so forth) and there's nothing really to discuss.
Yes, yes you can!!!! Many people work that way anyway!!!!!!
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Old 4th December 2016, 05:14 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Wait now Trump is a victim of Trumps sexual misconduct? We have his own words that he sexually assaults women and barges in on the changing rooms of teenagers.

I know Trump is not the most reliable of informers on the actions of himself but he should still be counted in those accusing him of doing these things.
True words, no excuses!!!!!! It's the ones he tries to deny that are his problem......
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Old 4th December 2016, 05:16 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The only people we can objectively say had an opinion one way or the other were the ones who actually voted, and fewer of them voted for Dirty Don than for Crooked Hillary.

As for the use of "wackiest" when describing Trump...Okay, why not. I guess Mussolini was "a hoot"?
and Hitler a laugh riot!!!!!
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Old 4th December 2016, 05:25 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Can I just please state that left and liberal and not synonyms. Liberal and left policies are very different in many areas, but they do overlap in some areas as do liberal and right policies. That does not mean that liberal policies are inherently "centralist" they are simply not on the same axis as the traditional right and left.
Yes, yes you certainly may!!!!!
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