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Old 9th January 2017, 10:04 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Let's just break this down real slow so you can understand it.

I am saying that sts60 did not dismiss anyone's argument in this post.

Never mind agreement or disagreement for a moment. Do you actually understand the bold section, above?
That is the same as Gainsaying my post! Come on. I just explained in excruciating detail that he was dismissing the claim because they all did were dishonest. Gainsaying my analysis is worthless.

Again, very simple, WHAT WAS HE DOING?

So simple, so easy....

Amaze me!
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:12 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I just explained in excruciating detail that he was dismissing the claim...
Are you disagreeing with me, then? I asked you before and you were afraid to answer.
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:21 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Are you disagreeing with me, then? I asked you before and you were afraid to answer.


I just said that....

The tiny bit of my post you quoted says that clearly, unmistakably.

The question that you are afraid to answer is WHAT WAS HE DOING.????
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:25 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post


I just said that....
No, you didn't. You accused me of not saying anything.

You have a nasty habit of imagining things that are not there.
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:29 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
No, you didn't. You accused me of not saying anything.

You have a nasty habit of imagining things that are not there.
Oh for the love of God....

You said nothing substantive ever. You gainsaid my studious analysis.

Pretty clear question hovering here:

What did he say? It is a simple question.

Amaze me!
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Old 10th January 2017, 06:16 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You said nothing substantive ever. You gainsaid my studious analysis.
I'll number this, to make this as simple as possible.

1. You stated that dismissing an argument is a component of a tu quoque fallacy.
2. This component does not exist in sts60's post.

If you think I'm wrong on either of these points, just tell me which one is incorrect, and we'll move on.
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Old 10th January 2017, 07:21 AM   #647
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh for the love of God....

You said nothing substantive ever. You gainsaid my studious analysis.

Pretty clear question hovering here:

What did he say? It is a simple question.


Amaze me!
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I'll number this, to make this as simple as possible.

1. You stated that dismissing an argument is a component of a tu quoque fallacy.
2. This component does not exist in sts60's post.

If you think I'm wrong on either of these points, just tell me which one is incorrect, and we'll move on.
Oh dear, it appears that you have ducked my simple question, again, heck you did not even to quote it, which takes actual effort. I highlighted it for reference sake.

Now rather than answer that simple question, you made two statements that I have addressed NUMEROUS times. I'll number them to make this as simple as possible:

1. "As I previously pointed out in this thread, the contention is that X's justification for not voting for Candidate is dismissed as irrelevant because all the candidates are dishonest."

2. As I previously pointed out in this thread, STS is dismissing the original claimants' justification for not voting for a Candidate because all the candidates are dishonest.

Gosh golly, look actual numbered responses!

Now you make with some answers, huh?
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Old 10th January 2017, 07:41 AM   #648
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delete

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Old 10th January 2017, 07:42 AM   #649
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Dup (one of a series)

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Old 10th January 2017, 07:43 AM   #650
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Dup (one of a series)

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Old 10th January 2017, 07:45 AM   #651
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Dup (one of a series)

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Old 10th January 2017, 07:46 AM   #652
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Dup (one of a lengthy series)

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Old 10th January 2017, 07:53 AM   #653
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Dup (One of many, many, many.)

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Old 10th January 2017, 08:02 AM   #654
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Phiwum? Was addressed in posts about 200 posts ago when it was concluded that his arguments were the most disengneuous (sp? remember that?) we had ever seen.
Right, at some point, you claimed that my arguments were disingenuous, without giving a specific reason. The closest thing to a rebuttal prior to that was your dismissal of the thought that some posts are for complaining, rather than presenting an argument.

So, yeah, you unilaterally decided my clear argument was disingenuous, without ever giving any evidence that sts60 dismissed the argument of Trump voters. Of course, you didn't give evidence, because he didn't write that Hillary's dishonest was false (he said it was true) or that it was irrelevant.

Thus, in the common (vulgar) way of many online posters, the way you "win" an argument is to simply declare victory, convincing no one, not even yourself. But a pretend win is the next best thing, eh, "Big Dog"?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
1. "As I previously pointed out in this thread, the contention is that X's justification for not voting for Candidate is dismissed as irrelevant because all the candidates are dishonest."
You have never pointed this out. You have asserted it, but this alleged dismissal does not occur in the text of sts60's post, reproduced below since I fear that your fantasies have clouded your memory.

Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
What gets me is the sheer hypocrisy of Trump fans who fume about Clinton's emails. Where were these people when the Bush Administration used RNC servers and "lost" orders of magnitude more messages than were endlessly bloviated about in Clinton's case? Where were they when Colin Powell used private servers for State Dept. emails? And where were they when Donald Trump and his crew deleted messages and data relevant to legal proceedings?

What Clinton did with her email setup was wrong, and her stories about it contained some clumsy lies. I'm not defending that. It's just that one has to marvel at the blatant, unadulterated, shameless hypocrisy of Trump fans preaching at us about why they had to vote for him because they couldn't trust her.
Now, is sts60 complaining? Obviously so, look at the highlights. Was he also claiming Hillary's dishonesty was irrelevant? I see nothing in the text to suggest this is so. Do feel free to point it out.

ETA: Apologies for the many duplicates above. Apparently, the server was receiving my posts, but was either not sending back responses or I wasn't getting them. Anyway, I resubmitted early and often.

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Old 10th January 2017, 09:18 AM   #655
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Apologies for the many duplicates above.
Repetition? In this thread? Well I never!
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Old 10th January 2017, 09:20 AM   #656
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
2. As I previously pointed out in this thread, STS is dismissing the original claimants' justification for not voting for a Candidate because all the candidates are dishonest.
Please stop making stuff up. He never said this. You know he never said this.

I'm just hoping that eventually, you'll get tired of the lies.
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Old 10th January 2017, 09:36 AM   #657
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Please stop making stuff up. He never said this. You know he never said this.

I'm just hoping that eventually, you'll get tired of the lies.


I did not say that he "said" he was "dismissing" it, I explained that he was dismissing it. Do you not understand the difference? Seriously this is so basic, so very basic.

Did you think he actually had to use the word "dismissing" in his post in order for it to constitute a tu quoque fallacy? Like it was some sort of magic word? A statement is not fallacious unless it contains those words?

That is utterly amazing. seriously, I cannot fathom how you thought you were going to analyze a statement for logical fallacies with the understanding that it had to have a magic word in it!

"For instance, if someone criticizes Bill Clinton for his dishonesty, the common rejoinder is to bring up Bush's dishonesty."

Oh man, it does not contain the word dismissing! Therefore it cannot be a tu quoque!

Utterly amazing, seriously.
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Old 10th January 2017, 09:40 AM   #658
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Sts60 didn't do this.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Then what was his purpose? You say he didn't do this, then what did he do???
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear... I asked sts60 to explain how I was "wrong," he took the time to post a post stating that he did not get "paid" by the post.

Phiwum? Was addressed in posts about 200 posts ago when it was concluded that his arguments were the most disengneuous (sp? remember that?) we had ever seen.

Take up the gauntlet, explain in your own words how I was wrong.

(protip: there is no way you will do this)
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
One would expect a skeptic to do something more than Gainsay a studious analysis, perhaps instead of saying NOPE, one would expect a skeptic to say: he did thus.

Try that.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
My detailed post




Pure Gainsay:



And this?



Oh no, if I were to disagree, you would have had to say something. Stop me if I am going to fast. You see that part where you said he "didn't do this"? Agin, if I am going to fast... That substance free nonsense is called pure Gainsaying. It is basically akin to saying "NOPE." It is worth less than nothing, seriously, it is huge waving flag that says "I am the scum has absolutely less than nothing."

If you disagree? Then you say, he did not do this, he did:

Amaze me! What did he do? I am tingling with anticipation.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post


I just said that....

The tiny bit of my post you quoted says that clearly, unmistakably.

The question that you are afraid to answer is WHAT WAS HE DOING.????
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh for the love of God....

You said nothing substantive ever. You gainsaid my studious analysis.

Pretty clear question hovering here:

What did he say? It is a simple question.

Amaze me!
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, it appears that you have ducked my simple question, again, heck you did not even to quote it, which takes actual effort. I highlighted it for reference sake.

Now rather than answer that simple question, you made two statements that I have addressed NUMEROUS times. I'll number them to make this as simple as possible:

1. "As I previously pointed out in this thread, the contention is that X's justification for not voting for Candidate is dismissed as irrelevant because all the candidates are dishonest."

2. As I previously pointed out in this thread, STS is dismissing the original claimants' justification for not voting for a Candidate because all the candidates are dishonest.

Gosh golly, look actual numbered responses!

Now you make with some answers, huh?
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Please stop making stuff up. He never said this. You know he never said this.

I'm just hoping that eventually, you'll get tired of the lies.
we all knew that there was no way, at all, ever, that he was going to answer the question:

Quote:
Then what was his purpose? You say he didn't do this, then what did he do???
Oh well, we saw it coming from miles away.
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Old 10th January 2017, 09:52 AM   #659
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An appeal to hypocrisy is a logical fallacy in which one attempts to discredit an opponent’s position by showing that the person making the argument has been unable to act in accordance with the position being argued for. By showing the person to be acting in a hypocritical manner, it is hoped that the audience will no longer take the argument seriously and that the argument will be dismissed.

As explained in the attached link, above, one can fallaciously try to discredit an argument by claiming it is a bad argument (here, everyone is dishonest) or that the conclusion is false.

Another fantastic link by TBD explaining basic critical thinking concepts.
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Old 10th January 2017, 10:10 AM   #660
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Shame you went to a psychology site rather that a philosophy encyclopedia, since informal fallacies of this sort are generally considered a part of philosophical logic (though psychologists would perhaps have a descriptive interest).

Here's what SEP says (under "Fallacies"):
Quote:
The third version of the ad hominem fallacy is the tu quoque. It involves not accepting a view or a recommendation because the espouser him- or herself does not follow it. Thus, if our neighbor advises us to exercise regularly and we reject her advice on the basis that she does not exercise regularly, we will commit the tu quoque fallacy: the value of advice is not wholly dependent on the integrity of the advisor.
I'll grant you that the dismissal of an opponent's argument might be implicit, but the principles of charity and fairness require that we need good reason to conclude sts60 intended to implicitly dismiss. Since, of course, his post was easily explained by complaining rather than rebutting, the charge of tu quoque hasn't sufficient evidence to take seriously.

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Old 10th January 2017, 11:36 AM   #661
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Quote:
Then what was his purpose? You say he didn't do this, then what did he do???

Oh well, we saw it coming from miles away.
Well you shouldn't have. I already answered the question.
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Old 10th January 2017, 11:38 AM   #662
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Please stop making stuff up. He never said this. You know he never said this.

I'm just hoping that eventually, you'll get tired of the lies.
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Well you shouldn't have. I already answered the question.
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Old 10th January 2017, 11:42 AM   #663
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If I could show you the post where I answered this question, would you admit you were wrong?
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Old 10th January 2017, 11:59 AM   #664
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
If I could show you the post where I answered this question, would you admit you were wrong?
Oh dear, you were SERIOUS when you copied that other poster's frivolous claim that he was merely venting??

It never occurred to me in a million years that you were serious.

I was wrong folks, I really thought you were approaching this on a reasonable level, not basically arguing that it was not a tu quoque fallacy because the post in question was not an argument at all. That is such an amazing cop out.

(that you are wrong that he was merely venting because he actually went to the bother of getting links to support his fallacious argument is a given, but still)
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Old 10th January 2017, 12:41 PM   #665
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, you were SERIOUS when you copied that other poster's frivolous claim that he was merely venting??

It never occurred to me in a million years that you were serious.

I was wrong folks, I really thought you were approaching this on a reasonable level, not basically arguing that it was not a tu quoque fallacy because the post in question was not an argument at all. That is such an amazing cop out.

(that you are wrong that he was merely venting because he actually went to the bother of getting links to support his fallacious argument is a given, but still)
Illusory superiority. Fortunately, other posters can see right through you.
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Old 10th January 2017, 12:46 PM   #666
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Illusory superiority. Fortunately, other posters can see right through you.
Floody floodfloodity. Floodly, flood flooders can flood flood flood flood.
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Old 10th January 2017, 12:51 PM   #667
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Floody floodfloodity. Floodly, flood flooders can flood flood flood flood.
Yes you can. Very well. Are you ok?
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Old 10th January 2017, 12:52 PM   #668
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, you were SERIOUS when you copied that other poster's frivolous claim that he was merely venting??

It never occurred to me in a million years that you were serious.

I was wrong folks, I really thought you were approaching this on a reasonable level, not basically arguing that it was not a tu quoque fallacy because the post in question was not an argument at all. That is such an amazing cop out.

(that you are wrong that he was merely venting because he actually went to the bother of getting links to support his fallacious argument is a given, but still)
Are you now acknowledging that the question was answered?
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:00 PM   #669
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Are you now acknowledging that the question was answered?
Yes, I now absolutely 100 percent acknowledge that (to my sheer amazement) your response that he was "venting" was intended by you to be a serious answer.

You managed to give an answer that was so frivolous and specious that I not only assumed you were joking, I actually chuckled when I first read it.

Kudos sir! I was wrong, there are some depths that will not remain unplumbed by my correspondents in this thread.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:01 PM   #670
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Please stop making stuff up. He never said this. You know he never said this.

I'm just hoping that eventually, you'll get tired of the lies.
Whereas I hope for a pony.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:15 PM   #671
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Whereas I hope for a pony.
A pony would actually be attainable!
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:26 PM   #672
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yes, I now absolutely 100 percent acknowledge that (to my sheer amazement) your response that he was "venting" was intended by you to be a serious answer.

You managed to give an answer that was so frivolous and specious that I not only assumed you were joking, I actually chuckled when I first read it.

Kudos sir! I was wrong, there are some depths that will not remain unplumbed by my correspondents in this thread.
You knew I had answered the question, and yet you made predictions that I would not answer the question. You were making predictions against a past event that you knew to have occurred. That's a pretty stupid thing to do.

But now, with that humongous distraction of yours out of the way, would you like to point to the part of sts60's post that validates your claim, that he was dismissing his opponent's argument?
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:37 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
You knew I had answered the question, and yet you made predictions that I would not answer the question. You were making predictions against a past event that you knew to have occurred. That's a pretty stupid thing to do.

But now, with that humongous distraction of yours out of the way, would you like to point to the part of sts60's post that validates your claim, that he was dismissing his opponent's argument?
Oh I agree! It is on me, because when I said 'answer' it never occurred to me that your insipid response that he was "venting' would be considered an "answer." I screwed up. Totally my bad.

Sure, here:

Quote:
What gets me is the sheer hypocrisy of Trump fans who fume about Clinton's emails. Where were these people when the Bush Administration used RNC servers and "lost" orders of magnitude more messages than were endlessly bloviated about in Clinton's case? Where were they when Colin Powell used private servers for State Dept. emails? And where were they when Donald Trump and his crew deleted messages and data relevant to legal proceedings?

What Clinton did with her email setup was wrong, and her stories about it contained some clumsy lies. I'm not defending that. It's just that one has to marvel at the blatant, unadulterated, shameless hypocrisy of Trump fans preaching at us about why they had to vote for him because they couldn't trust her.
and if you go to the actual post you will see that it contains actual links!

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1&postcount=64

(which in part is why I thought you were joking about the venting claim)

and now this to help illuminate the issue in even more spectacular fashion:

Quote:
An appeal to hypocrisy is a logical fallacy in which one attempts to discredit an opponent’s position by showing that the person making the argument has been unable to act in accordance with the position being argued for. By showing the person to be acting in a hypocritical manner, it is hoped that the audience will no longer take the argument seriously and that the argument will be dismissed.
I hope that helps, you see that is what makes it a fallacious argument.

But you think he was just "venting' which is amazing!
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:45 PM   #674
Dancing David
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
A pony would actually be attainable!
How many potential ponies can there be?
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:46 PM   #675
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Are you now conceding that it was not a tu quoque fallacy?
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:03 PM   #676
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Are you now conceding that it was not a tu quoque fallacy?
Of course not, indeed i just once again proved it was one. What in the world gave you that idea?
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:19 PM   #677
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
How many potential ponies can there be?
In comparison? An infinite number.
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Old 10th January 2017, 04:52 PM   #678
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Here is an illustration of the tu quoque fallacy when it is actually a fallacy.

A father catches his son smoking cigarettes.

Father: Son, smoking is an expensive and dirty habit that will ruin your health and you will regret it in the future if you don't stop.

Son: But Dad, you smoke two packs a day. Your argument is invalid.
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Old 10th January 2017, 05:10 PM   #679
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I don't see any reason to take psychologyconcepts.com seriously.
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Old 10th January 2017, 06:24 PM   #680
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I don't see any reason to take psychologyconcepts.com seriously.
It almost seems like there is some sort of fallacy at play, something about appealing to authoritah, or respecting it, or something?
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