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Old 21st December 2016, 04:21 PM   #1
Aepervius
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Swamp not to be drained

Not directly from the mouth of the swamp drainer, but hey.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politi...amp/index.html

Is there anything he did not go back from his election trail ? I mean, beside his name.... Wait, he is still called Donald Trump, right ?
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Old 21st December 2016, 04:29 PM   #2
Regnad Kcin
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Ask John Barron.
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Old 21st December 2016, 04:35 PM   #3
Aepervius
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Ask John Barron.
Ha, yes, I had forgotten that one. Even trying to snark, I hit a chord...
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Old 21st December 2016, 05:18 PM   #4
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I believe it is simple:

Trump will say whatever it takes to advance his own goals. He usually does not believe what he says and he very likely has zero intention to do whatever he says he will do.

Other than Trump himself and (perhaps) his family, I cannot think of anyone whose interactions with Trump did not eventually leave them worse off than they were before: his co-investors, his political allies, his customers, his employees, his "friends," etc. I am not expecting any better in terms of the USA as a whole.
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Old 21st December 2016, 05:27 PM   #5
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Perhaps. Normally swamps are drained for a particular purpose - so that good pasture can be claimed.

The time when Oligarchy rules behind the curtain of OZ is coming to an end.

Who can say, "we were not warned"? You did not see this coming?

Your eyes were on your own wants. Distracted.

That is the curtain of OZ.
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Old 21st December 2016, 06:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
The time when Oligarchy rules behind the curtain... is coming to an end
Yep. Why hide behind the curtain, when you do it all openly and the idiots still vote for you?
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Old 21st December 2016, 06:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Not directly from the mouth of the swamp drainer, but hey.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politi...amp/index.html

Is there anything he did not go back from his election trail ? I mean, beside his name.... Wait, he is still called Donald Trump, right ?
Awesome pose by the Axolotl Newt in that article. Hail Trump!
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Old 21st December 2016, 06:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I believe it is simple:

Trump will say whatever it takes to advance his own goals. He usually does not believe what he says and he very likely has zero intention to do whatever he says he will do.

Other than Trump himself and (perhaps) his family, I cannot think of anyone whose interactions with Trump did not eventually leave them worse off than they were before: his co-investors, his political allies, his customers, his employees, his "friends," etc. I am not expecting any better in terms of the USA as a whole.
No "perhaps" about it - there is no "family" in "Trump family". It's all only about Trump personally. He's already sidelined two wives and a kid or two. If you are no longer of use to him, he drops it like it's hot.
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Old 21st December 2016, 08:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Yep. Why hide behind the curtain, when you do it all openly and the idiots still vote for you?
Timing is everything. But stupid is really believing that democracy and voting has anything to do with it.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 04:04 AM   #10
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In his victory rallies he said himself that it was just a great cheer line, it never ment anything in terms of policy. Only fools ever believed it.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 04:41 AM   #11
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Good, should suppress voter turn out in the midterms.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 05:21 AM   #12
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When a person becomes the president, then that person is expected to fulfill at least a few of their campaign promises.

But in the case of a President Trump, then I (and quite a few other people) seriously dread him fulfilling just about any of his many, many, many campaign promises.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 05:25 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
When a person becomes the president, then that person is expected to fulfill at least a few of their campaign promises.

But in the case of a President Trump, then I (and quite a few other people) seriously dread him fulfilling just about any of his many, many, many campaign promises.
I don't want The Hair to fulfill its promises. That doesn't mean the PACs shouldn't use its lies and failures to help its base along to disillusionment. There's nothing wrong with pointing out to a Hair supporter than they aren't getting what was promised even if what was promised was stupid.

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Old 22nd December 2016, 05:37 AM   #14
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There is a whole ecosystem of things living in swamps that would get upset at having their home being threatened.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 05:38 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
When a person becomes the president, then that person is expected to fulfill at least a few of their campaign promises.

But in the case of a President Trump, then I (and quite a few other people) seriously dread him fulfilling just about any of his many, many, many campaign promises.
The problem is sorting out the actual campaign promises from the basic applause lines.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 06:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
The problem is sorting out the actual campaign promises from the basic applause lines.

Oh, my friend, that is not a bug.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:03 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Not directly from the mouth of the swamp drainer, but hey.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politi...amp/index.html

Is there anything he did not go back from his election trail ? I mean, beside his name.... Wait, he is still called Donald Trump, right ?
So you're upset Trump is going to refrain from using the "Drain the Swamp" phrase? And you somehow equate his not using that statement with backing out of removing corrupt individuals from the system? I think you better read it again, a little closer this time. Chris B.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
So you're upset Trump is going to refrain from using the "Drain the Swamp" phrase? And you somehow equate his not using that statement with backing out of removing corrupt individuals from the system? I think you better read it again, a little closer this time. Chris B.
Trump will be resigning?
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:11 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
So you're upset Trump is going to refrain from using the "Drain the Swamp" phrase? And you somehow equate his not using that statement with backing out of removing corrupt individuals from the system? I think you better read it again, a little closer this time. Chris B.
See Trump himself has said it was a slogan that didn't mean anything, he just liked how the crowd reacted to it. And yet his supports are convinced it means something.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Trump will be resigning?
Only from President-Elect status to President. Chris B.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
When a person becomes the president, then that person is expected to fulfill at least a few of their campaign promises.

But in the case of a President Trump, then I (and quite a few other people) seriously dread him fulfilling just about any of his many, many, many campaign promises.
Quite honestly i would find Trump a whole lot less awful if he at least tried to be honest and upfront about his views and opinions. That's what makes him so unsuitable as a leader: hes unpredictable, shortsighted, ignorant, emotional, narcissistic and has complete disregard for truth and facts.

How can you trust a dishonest liar poised to make bad decision after bad decision? He's not even president yet his mistakes and dumb moves are already starting to pile up.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I believe it is simple:

Trump will say whatever it takes to advance his own goals. He usually does not believe what he says and he very likely has zero intention to do whatever he says he will do.

Other than Trump himself and (perhaps) his family, I cannot think of anyone whose interactions with Trump did not eventually leave them worse off than they were before: his co-investors, his political allies, his customers, his employees, his "friends," etc. I am not expecting any better in terms of the USA as a whole.
Drain the swamp was just a slogan but I think he has been filing his cabinet and advisers positions with a lot of people who are not Washington insiders. That is what I took to be draining the swamp.

I do believe Trump said a lot of things just to get elected. Maybe more so than most politicians. Although didn't President Obama say Hillary Clinton will say anything and change nothing.

But do you believe there are not many happy people who have worked as employees of Trump or many happy contractors who made money working for him, or many investors who made lots of money with him?

Last edited by eeyore1954; 22nd December 2016 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:26 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
See Trump himself has said it was a slogan that didn't mean anything, he just liked how the crowd reacted to it. And yet his supports are convinced it means something.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited for a breach of rule 12.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:35 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Drain the swamp was just a slogan but I think he has been filing his cabinet and advisers positions with a lot of people who are not Washington insiders. That is what I took to be draining the swamp.

I do believe Trump said a lot of things just to get elected. Maybe more so than most politicians. Although didn't President Obama say Hillary Clinton will say anything and change nothing.

But do you believe there are not many happy people who have worked as employees of Trump or many happy contractors who made money working for him, or many investors who made lots of money with him?
True he is cutting out the washington middlemen and just selling the departments off to the interests behind them. What is good for exxon and goldman sachs is good for america after all.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:36 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited moderated content
Edited by Agatha:  Edited response to moderated content
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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:47 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited moderated content
Edited by Agatha:  Edited response to moderated content
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One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B.

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Old 22nd December 2016, 08:49 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Quite honestly i would find Trump a whole lot less awful if he at least tried to be honest and upfront about his views and opinions. That's what makes him so unsuitable as a leader: hes unpredictable, shortsighted, ignorant, emotional, narcissistic and has complete disregard for truth and facts.

Then he wouldn't have been elected.

The new paradigm is that it doesn't actually matter what he said, all that matters is that, whatever he said to the masses made them feel hopeful and optimistic and full of promise for the future.

It doesn't matter if, for example, what he said in Oregon diametrically opposes what was said in Florida (locations picked out of my backside, may not be appropriate to the example) because, in both instances, the feeling he engendered, not the substance of his words was what's important.


After the event, the words fade but the memory of emotion remains and that's what people vote with, logic and facts be damned.


My lay interpretation is that it's based on the same science that means that if you take your date to a horror movie, your date will remember the elevated heart rate and strong emotions and associate them with you, not the movie - it's about the emotion not the circumstance.

It is, I think, think, the same effect that those who memorise their way through a deck of cards or the like - the important thing is to associate each image with an emotion, not the bare facts. The memory of emotion remains long after the reasons for the emotion have been long since forgotten.


It doesn't matter what's said, it only matters how it makes people feel. Once you've got them by the feelings then they'll follow you anywhere and make any justification for any apparent contradictions because admitting them would take away the warm fuzzy, happy feeling.


In short, democracy is ********** - we have the wrong sort of brains for it and most of us will fall for any old ******** that makes us happy regardless of the actual content.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:01 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Drain the swamp was just a slogan but I think he has been filing his cabinet and advisers positions with a lot of people who are not Washington insiders. That is what I took to be draining the swamp.

I do believe Trump said a lot of things just to get elected. Maybe more so than most politicians. Although didn't President Obama say Hillary Clinton will say anything and change nothing.

But do you believe there are not many happy people who have worked as employees of Trump or many happy contractors who made money working for him, or many investors who made lots of money with him?
He is filling his cabinet with many individuals who have personal economic interests that are likely to benefit from their official actions. Indeed Trump himself is a perfect example of this. I believe that the term "draining the swamp and refilling it with new contaminated water" is an even better description of the situation.

I appreciate your willingness to make the highlighted statement. Personally I consider Trump's willingness to lie to be elected, multiplied by the shear magnitude and boldness of his lies, as many, many magnitudes more than the average politician's.

As to the last paragraph- I cannot give you a percent of the people happy to have associated with Trump. Are there many? I doubt it. My post was an accurate statement of my knowledge- I do not know of any significant number of such people, although I presume that there must be a few out there (his doorman after a Christmas bonus? The car dealer who sells him his autos?). But from what I have observed, and as I see it, Trump is a conman who has left a very long string of damage among the people and institutions with whom/which he has had contact. This includes (IMHO) many betrayed investors, unpaid contractors, bankrupt companies, short-changed employees, and bilked students. I have heard essentially no examples of the opposite, and even though some such examples probably exist, I believe that the overall pattern lies heavily toward Trump helps Trump and most everyone else loses.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:15 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
You know,I realize it makes you feel better to cry Trump is a failure. It makes you feel better to poke at Trump supporters and try to remove the good feelings of hope they have. But, it's simply not working. I know you'd rather live in a bubble without realizing defeat, you want others to believe YOUR candidate was the best for the Country, but that delusion does nobody any good, not even yourselves. Chris B.
Chris B, please educate me and tell what hopes give Trump voters a good feeling
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:22 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Nope, however being a skeptical type of guy, I'll wait to judge his actions AFTER he actually does something I view as a problem. Until then, I'm happy happy happy...............
Chris B.
Okay, well then, enjoy your sack of ****.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:24 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Yep. Why hide behind the curtain, when you do it all openly and the idiots still vote for you?
It worked for Edwin Edwards in 1983:

"The only way I can lose this race is to be caught in bed with a live boy or dead girl."

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.s...s_electio.html
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:30 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
When a person becomes the president, then that person is expected to fulfill at least a few of their campaign promises.
I read a study that said the average since WWII is 70%. There's a lot of wiggle room for estimates, though.


Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
But in the case of a President Trump, then I (and quite a few other people) seriously dread him fulfilling just about any of his many, many, many campaign promises.
His fulfillment percentage will be difficult to assess because of the [Jeane Dixon Effect] He says he will do X, then he says he'll never do X. He promises Y, then says he never promised Y. It's not clear what his 'net' campaign promises actually were. Just a case in point: is he going to rein in wall street's abuse of the retail investor, or is he going to unleash wall street's potential by deregulating it entirely, and leave the retail investor in a caveat emptor situation? He promised both, but these are mutually exclusive paths.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 09:52 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by David RP View Post
Chris B, please educate me and tell what hopes give Trump voters a good feeling
The fact that they are no longer going to be ignored. Knowing: Someone finally realizes NAFTA was a disaster for US jobs and has destroyed the working class. Someone realizes that Washington DC is filled with insiders and crooked politicians who line their pockets with deals that take food out of our mouths by selling out. Someone who is not PC and can say things like radical Islamic terrorism. Someone that will take charge of the US and lead rather than follow. Someone realizes what we experienced under Reagan was good for us and the Country. Someone that will not view the US as having a responsibility for disastrous nation building policies that attempt to overthrow governments from within or by rebellion with US armed groups of extremists that eventually turn against us as well. This is only a small sample of what gives hope to Trump voters, the list is very long. Chris B.
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One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 10:02 AM   #34
WilliamSeger
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The fact that they are no longer going to be ignored. Knowing: Someone finally realizes NAFTA was a disaster for US jobs and has destroyed the working class. Someone realizes that Washington DC is filled with insiders and crooked politicians who line their pockets with deals that take food out of our mouths by selling out. Someone who is not PC and can say things like radical Islamic terrorism. Someone that will take charge of the US and lead rather than follow. Someone realizes what we experienced under Reagan was good for us and the Country. Someone that will not view the US as having a responsibility for disastrous nation building policies that attempt to overthrow governments from within or by rebellion with US armed groups of extremists that eventually turn against us as well. This is only a small sample of what gives hope to Trump voters, the list is very long. Chris B.
In short, they feel good because they have been deceived by a demagogue.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 10:11 AM   #35
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The fact that they are no longer going to be ignored.....
Let's see how they feel in two years.

My assessment of Trump is that he is a really and truly awful person who lied through his teeth to make people believe the above, including the edited out parts. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about him, but when he has an actual record to review, we'll know.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 10:29 AM   #36
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I think the next 4 years will be awfully funny.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politi...amp/index.html

Short of it : he denies it.

My interpretation : he will scold newt for saying the truth to the rub, and in private will simply drop it down while in public still saying the sentence, but in reality do nothing about it, absolutely nothing about draining whatever swamp.

Last edited by Aepervius; 22nd December 2016 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 10:30 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Someone realizes what we experienced under Reagan was good for us and the Country. Someone that will not view the US as having a responsibility for disastrous nation building policies that attempt to overthrow governments from within or by rebellion with US armed groups of extremists that eventually turn against us as well.
Um...Iran-Contra?
Or does Ronnie get a pass on that one, for some reason?
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Old 22nd December 2016, 12:04 PM   #38
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His tweet from today:

Quote:
Someone incorrectly stated that the phrase "DRAIN THE SWAMP" was no longer being used by me. Actually, we will always be trying to DTS.
So dont-worry-bout-it!
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Old 22nd December 2016, 12:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The fact that they are no longer going to be ignored. Knowing: Someone finally realizes NAFTA was a disaster for US jobs and has destroyed the working class. Someone realizes that Washington DC is filled with insiders and crooked politicians who line their pockets with deals that take food out of our mouths by selling out. Someone who is not PC and can say things like radical Islamic terrorism. Someone that will take charge of the US and lead rather than follow. Someone realizes what we experienced under Reagan was good for us and the Country. Someone that will not view the US as having a responsibility for disastrous nation building policies that attempt to overthrow governments from within or by rebellion with US armed groups of extremists that eventually turn against us as well. This is only a small sample of what gives hope to Trump voters, the list is very long. Chris B.
And don't forget Bigfoot! I bet he's also going to get Bigfoot!
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Old 22nd December 2016, 12:13 PM   #40
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I've always assumed that Trump's pledge to drain the swamp actually meant that he would end wetlands conservation efforts.
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