ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 22nd December 2016, 12:24 PM   #41
sir drinks-a-lot
Master Poster
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 2,995
I'd say the swamp was significantly drained back on November 8th, amirite?
__________________
I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare
sir drinks-a-lot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 12:26 PM   #42
WilliamSeger
Master Poster
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,300
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I've always assumed that Trump's pledge to drain the swamp actually meant that he would end wetlands conservation efforts.
I thought he meant that an oil reserve had been found under it.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 12:28 PM   #43
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 21,140
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
So you're upset Trump is going to refrain from using the "Drain the Swamp" phrase? And you somehow equate his not using that statement with backing out of removing corrupt individuals from the system? I think you better read it again, a little closer this time. Chris B.
Reading that, it seems you may be under the impression that he's fully intending to remove corrupt individuals from the system.
Am I correct there?
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 01:18 PM   #44
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 19,100
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The fact that they are no longer going to be ignored.
Trump in his entire life has never done anything that doesn't benefit him. Even the charity he set up basically is for his personal benefit. Any benefits to anyone else are purely coincidental or accidental.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Knowing: Someone finally realizes NAFTA was a disaster for US jobs and has destroyed the working class.
And you think someone who is actively trying to import more workers as we speak really cares about US jobs?

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Someone realizes that Washington DC is filled with insiders and crooked politicians who line their pockets with deals that take food out of our mouths by selling out.
They will look like pikers after Trump is done. Personal profit and ego are the only things that motivate Trump.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Someone who is not PC and can say things like radical Islamic terrorism. Someone that will take charge of the US and lead rather than follow.
Honestly, I kind of agree with this, but where Trump will lead scares me.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Someone realizes what we experienced under Reagan was good for us and the Country.
Like tax increases. And the most corrupt administration in the history of US.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Someone that will not view the US as having a responsibility for disastrous nation building policies that attempt to overthrow governments from within or by rebellion with US armed groups of extremists that eventually turn against us as well.
I agree. Bush getting us into Iraq has been nothing but an unmitigated disaster.


Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
This is only a small sample of what gives hope to Trump voters, the list is very long. Chris B.
And it will be a very long list of disappointments.
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.
Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon

Last edited by Spindrift; 22nd December 2016 at 01:20 PM.
Spindrift is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 01:57 PM   #45
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 13,611
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I've always assumed that Trump's pledge to drain the swamp actually meant that he would end wetlands conservation efforts.
Indeed, I believe that is something he WILL do. Particularly if important to develop one of his properties...
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 02:58 PM   #46
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,306
Trump denies Gingrich claim that he's dropping 'drain the swamp'

Wednesday Newt Gingrich said the president-elect "doesn't want to use it anymore" now that he's knee-deep in alligators. Trump tweeted Thursday that he will "always be trying to (drain the swamp)."

"I'm told he now just disclaims that. He now says it was cute, but he doesn't want to use it anymore," Gingrich, who informally advises Trump,*said Wednesday on NPR's "Morning Edition."

The former House Speaker said that he had "written what I thought was a very cute tweet about 'the alligators are complaining,' " but that "somebody wrote back and said they were tired of hearing this stuff."

Trump corrected him on Thursday.

"Someone incorrectly stated that the phrase "DRAIN THE SWAMP" was no longer being used by me. Actually, we will always be trying to DTS," he tweeted.

http://us.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politic...amp/index.html
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 03:58 PM   #47
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 13,611
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump denies Gingrich claim that he's dropping 'drain the swamp'

Wednesday Newt Gingrich said the president-elect "doesn't want to use it anymore" now that he's knee-deep in alligators. Trump tweeted Thursday that he will "always be trying to (drain the swamp)."

"I'm told he now just disclaims that. He now says it was cute, but he doesn't want to use it anymore," Gingrich, who informally advises Trump,*said Wednesday on NPR's "Morning Edition."

The former House Speaker said that he had "written what I thought was a very cute tweet about 'the alligators are complaining,' " but that "somebody wrote back and said they were tired of hearing this stuff."

Trump corrected him on Thursday.

"Someone incorrectly stated that the phrase "DRAIN THE SWAMP" was no longer being used by me. Actually, we will always be trying to DTS," he tweeted.

http://us.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politic...amp/index.html
Fascinating how many people talk to Trump and then come away convinced as to what he is really thinking or what he really believes. With each person coming away with a different conclusion! And of course what Trump himself states that he believes changes each minute of the day and each the day of the week.

IMHO once again the explanation is simple: Trump will say anything that comes into his head at any time to anybody if he believes that it will advance his interests, with no concern as to consistency, truth, or logic. This is how he "negotiates" in business and is a central principal of how conmen operate. Given this I have no idea of why his allies (or his opponents for that matter) even bother to assume that what Trump says to them has any significance or meaning at all. It doesn't. He is just making it all up as he goes along, and in just a few minutes he will be saying the exact opposite to someone else.

BTW- this view is based on my assumption that Trump actually having a personal agenda that he seeks to benefit from this "make it up as you go along" approach. Sometimes however I think that Trump doesn't even have an agenda other than to make random, blowhard statements that he believes will impress others.

Good luck to us all!

Last edited by Giordano; 22nd December 2016 at 04:03 PM.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 04:29 PM   #48
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
Just like a sociopath would do frankly.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 04:30 PM   #49
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump denies Gingrich claim that he's dropping 'drain the swamp'

Wednesday Newt Gingrich said the president-elect "doesn't want to use it anymore" now that he's knee-deep in alligators. Trump tweeted Thursday that he will "always be trying to (drain the swamp)."

"I'm told he now just disclaims that. He now says it was cute, but he doesn't want to use it anymore," Gingrich, who informally advises Trump,*said Wednesday on NPR's "Morning Edition."

The former House Speaker said that he had "written what I thought was a very cute tweet about 'the alligators are complaining,' " but that "somebody wrote back and said they were tired of hearing this stuff."

Trump corrected him on Thursday.

"Someone incorrectly stated that the phrase "DRAIN THE SWAMP" was no longer being used by me. Actually, we will always be trying to DTS," he tweeted.

http://us.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politic...amp/index.html
I mentioned that the page before BTW.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 04:59 PM   #50
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 13,611
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Just like a sociopath would do frankly.
Almost exactly like that. Uncanny, isn't it?

BTW- I award extra amusement points for Gingrich discussing anything to do with "draining the swamp."
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 05:08 PM   #51
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,274
Bernie Sanders
Bernie Sanders – Verified account ‏@SenSanders

Trump is assembling the wealthiest cabinet in history — wealthier than the bottom 1/3 of American households combined.

https://twitter.com/sensanders/statu...38780784873472
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 05:18 PM   #52
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 26,712
Pave the Swamp!
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."
Mike! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 05:22 PM   #53
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,274
Think they are putting luxury towers on it for the snakes and gators to move into.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 05:25 PM   #54
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,380
From that adorable blond comedian who does Kellyanne Conway on SNL:

"Actually Mr. Trump is draining the swamp, as he said he would, and the frogs and the toads and the newts that have the mutations to survive are now his Cabinet pets."

The caption said "pets," I thought maybe she said "picks."

I think Alec Baldwin & crew ought to do a weekly half-hour comedy show during this whole freakin' term. I would get cable back for that. I look forward to seeing those YouTube videos every Sunday ..... please, please somebody do this!
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 05:29 PM   #55
Norman Alexander
Master Poster
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,115
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Fascinating how many people talk to Trump and then come away convinced as to what he is really thinking or what he really believes. With each person coming away with a different conclusion! And of course what Trump himself states that he believes changes each minute of the day and each the day of the week.

IMHO once again the explanation is simple: Trump will say anything that comes into his head at any time to anybody if he believes that it will advance his interests, with no concern as to consistency, truth, or logic. This is how he "negotiates" in business and is a central principal of how conmen operate. Given this I have no idea of why his allies (or his opponents for that matter) even bother to assume that what Trump says to them has any significance or meaning at all. It doesn't. He is just making it all up as he goes along, and in just a few minutes he will be saying the exact opposite to someone else.
This x 10E100

Quote:
BTW- this view is based on my assumption that Trump actually having a personal agenda that he seeks to benefit from this "make it up as you go along" approach. Sometimes however I think that Trump doesn't even have an agenda other than to make random, blowhard statements that he believes will impress others.
He does indeed have an agenda: His own personal benefit alone. Like all con-artists, he has no ulterior motives. His sole goal is his own enrichment. He will throw anyone under the bus without the slightest compunction. He's already burned through two wives and a couple of children, so putting a few more family members between him and harm's way causes him no heartache at all. And as for staff and "friends", they are even more readily expendable. As Newt is finding out now and many more will find out in due course. And as for the rest of the country...heh! Anyone notice any campaign promises being casually broken?

Remember: This is a five-year-old brat who always had his valet wipe his arse, pick up his toys and thrash the other servants for him, and who then fired the same valet for running his bathwater too hot.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015

Last edited by Norman Alexander; 22nd December 2016 at 05:31 PM.
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 05:30 PM   #56
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 63,421
Trump loves to humiliate people and watch them grovel. Gingrich groveled quite nicely today over the DTS comment.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 05:31 PM   #57
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,380
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump denies Gingrich claim that he's dropping 'drain the swamp'
But .... but.... I saw footage of him saying he never liked it, but people liked it, and he said it ... or did he? What did I see?

Newt, Rudy, Chris ... have they all been dumped? Dumped on, perhaps? Drumpfed?

I actually kind of enjoy Kellyanne, but I love the SNL Kellyanne.

Last edited by Minoosh; 22nd December 2016 at 06:00 PM.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 05:43 PM   #58
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,380
And what about the pledge that his Cabinet picks (and others?) can't lobby for FIVE YEARS after quitting his service ... is that in the contract language? Because I would be pretty shocked. These are active, vital men (a woman or two?) in their 50s, 60s, who in some cases are giving up business careers to succor Donald (or avert him from disaster?) and they are basically giving up any possibility of a post-Donald career. But he's like that; he loves to command power over his minions, even his volunteers.

It seems incredible to me that this would be part of an actual legal document. On my long list of things for the media to do ... please, please let's make sure this claim is confirmed. Because it seems like a real bum deal for them.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 05:56 PM   #59
blutoski
Penultimate Amazing
 
blutoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,744
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
And what about the pledge that his Cabinet picks (and others?) can't lobby for FIVE YEARS after quitting his service ... is that in the contract language? Because I would be pretty shocked. These are active, vital men (a woman or two?) in their 50s, 60s, who in some cases are giving up business careers to succor Donald (or avert him from disaster?) and they are basically giving up any possibility of a post-Donald career. But he's like that; he loves to command power over his minions, even his volunteers.

It seems incredible to me that this would be part of an actual legal document. On my long list of things for the media to do ... please, please let's make sure this claim is confirmed. Because it seems like a real bum deal for them.
Even if it's a pledge, what does it matter. His cabinet wouldn't be interested in lobbying. Half of them hire phalanx of lobbyists to do it for them already, why would they demote themselves and take a pay cut?
__________________
"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett
blutoski is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 06:03 PM   #60
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,380
Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Even if it's a pledge, what does it matter. His cabinet wouldn't be interested in lobbying. Half of them hire phalanx of lobbyists to do it for them already, why would they demote themselves and take a pay cut?
Depends on how broad the language is. Lobbyists can make fortunes. Not all would need it, but they wouldn't necessarily return to business as CEOs; the world moves on, and lobbying can be quite lucrative.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2016, 07:23 PM   #61
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,192
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The fact that they are no longer going to be ignored.
Yeah what a great guy. He exploited their suburban and rural white trash anxiety by offering false hope that their "good old days" would come back. He's going to bring coal back, because global warming is a hoax anyways, and all those manufacturing jobs too that were stolen by Mexicans and the Chinese. Finally manual labor and artisan jobs that require neither education nor intelligence will get people a fat paycheck. If their mines run out of ore then Trump could just buy some from China, bury it in Appalachia and have the miners dig it up anew. The actual utility of their jobs doesn't matter, especially not in a larger context.

It's this incredible idiotic selfishness that Trump exploited to his own voters detriment. They have no other concerns than themselves and wish that their community's situation improve yet instead of voting for someone that could actually offer economic restructuring that would get them long-term and sustainable prosperity.

Rural America with its "working white" population will continue to decay until they choose to elect someone that will actually help them adapt to the present and the future instead of holding on to the past. Until then have to live in relative poverty and subsist on opioids, alcohol and false promises.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2016, 04:03 AM   #62
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
But .... but.... I saw footage of him saying he never liked it, but people liked it, and he said it ... or did he? What did I see?
Trump: We're going to drain the swamp of corruption. Funny how that term caught on isn't it? I tell everybody, I hated it. Somebody said "drain the swamp", I said "oh that's so hokey. That is so terrible". I said "alright I'll try it". So like a month ago I said "drain the swamp", the place went crazy. I said "Woah. Watch this". Then I said it again, then I started saying it like I meant it, right? And then I said it - I started loving it. And the place - drain the swamp. It's true. It's true. It's true, drain the swamp.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2016, 04:11 AM   #63
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13,277
It does look like he's just cut out the middleman.

Rather than politicians making decisions contrary to the interests of the majority because they're being paid by business to do so it looks like the businesses concerned are just going to have direct representation.


The US constitution is, I'm told, designed to protect it's citizens from it's own, elected government.

Which document is going to protect US citizens from corporations invested with all the power of government but none of the checks and balances?
__________________
Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2016, 05:43 AM   #64
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,274
If corpprations are people, when will we see the first one become president?
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2016, 06:48 AM   #65
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 5,917
January.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2016, 08:54 AM   #66
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,192
It's funny: Trump post something dumb on twitter like he usually does and instead of explaining or elaborating what he meant himself the best you get is someone else doing it for him. They explain whether or not "he really meant" what he wrote even if said meaning happens to be the exact opposite of what he actually wrote.

The problem with this is that since Trump doesn't personally explain what he meant he can always claim that he's being misinterpreted or that he "really" meant something else. This kind of obscurantism is utterly appalling.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner

Last edited by Arcade22; 23rd December 2016 at 08:55 AM.
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2016, 09:57 AM   #67
blutoski
Penultimate Amazing
 
blutoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,744
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
If corpprations are people, when will we see the first one become president?
Jan 20 2017.


Aside: this brings attention to a prevailing theory in AI... that we have already invented AI in a way. Government and Corporations are arguably types of AI.

The effect of establishing inalienable rights to limit government is that we have a sort of laws of robotics for democratic bureaucracies.

While corporations predated the US Constitution, they weren't very powerful yet, and their threat was not obvious. But it is getting clear now, I think, and the humans need to consider a way to protect ourselves. They were held at bay with government regulation, but now they've eaten the regulator.
__________________
"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett
blutoski is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2016, 10:04 PM   #68
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 13,806
Tamany Hall is turning green with envy. Trump doesn't even pretend.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th December 2016, 11:13 PM   #69
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 15,647
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Yeah what a great guy. He exploited their suburban and rural white trash anxiety by offering false hope that their "good old days" would come back. He's going to bring coal back, because global warming is a hoax anyways, and all those manufacturing jobs too that were stolen by Mexicans and the Chinese. Finally manual labor and artisan jobs that require neither education nor intelligence will get people a fat paycheck. If their mines run out of ore then Trump could just buy some from China, bury it in Appalachia and have the miners dig it up anew. The actual utility of their jobs doesn't matter, especially not in a larger context.

It's this incredible idiotic selfishness that Trump exploited to his own voters detriment. They have no other concerns than themselves and wish that their community's situation improve yet instead of voting for someone that could actually offer economic restructuring that would get them long-term and sustainable prosperity.

Rural America with its "working white" population will continue to decay until they choose to elect someone that will actually help them adapt to the present and the future instead of holding on to the past. Until then have to live in relative poverty and subsist on opioids, alcohol and false promises.
On the coal front:

http://qz.com/871162/the-first-road-...tm_source=qzfb

Trump makes lots of promises. Funny how people who are sick of politicians, go right on believing.
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th December 2016, 07:19 AM   #70
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,306
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
On the coal front:

http://qz.com/871162/the-first-road-...tm_source=qzfb

Trump makes lots of promises. Funny how people who are sick of politicians, go right on believing.
Trump will order airstrikes, solar is evil.
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2017, 05:47 PM   #71
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,830
The swamp is going to flourish.

Quote:
House Republicans voted Monday night in favor of a proposal that would weaken Congress' outside ethics watchdog and remove its independence.

Republican Virginia Rep. Bob Goodlatte's proposal would place the independent Office of Congressional Ethics -- an initial watchdog for House members but without power to punish members -- under oversight of those very lawmakers.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd January 2017, 12:34 AM   #72
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,255
Let the bribes flow
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2017, 12:29 AM   #73
ChrisBFRPKY
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,588
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Yeah what a great guy. He exploited their suburban and rural white trash anxiety by offering false hope that their "good old days" would come back. He's going to bring coal back, because global warming is a hoax anyways, and all those manufacturing jobs too that were stolen by Mexicans and the Chinese. Finally manual labor and artisan jobs that require neither education nor intelligence will get people a fat paycheck. If their mines run out of ore then Trump could just buy some from China, bury it in Appalachia and have the miners dig it up anew. The actual utility of their jobs doesn't matter, especially not in a larger context.

It's this incredible idiotic selfishness that Trump exploited to his own voters detriment. They have no other concerns than themselves and wish that their community's situation improve yet instead of voting for someone that could actually offer economic restructuring that would get them long-term and sustainable prosperity.

Rural America with its "working white" population will continue to decay until they choose to elect someone that will actually help them adapt to the present and the future instead of holding on to the past. Until then have to live in relative poverty and subsist on opioids, alcohol and false promises.
Sorry for such a late reply. I just found this.

I believe with such an obvious display of hatred for Americans, your post has you pegged as yet another reason the Democrats have lost so many election contests recently.

This thing about thinking one is better than someone else and denigrating so many million people within the population is disturbing.

The people you show so much contempt for ARE America. They don't have a silver spoon and most have a callus or two on their hands. These people work hard and pay their taxes. They're sick and tired of being told how they should live their lives to better suit someone that has no idea of what it means to worry about paying an electric bill or buying groceries, one or the other but not both. They're driving older vehicles far beyond their mechanical limits and keeping them on the road with constant costly repairs that they usually make themselves. Ever wonder why there are so many Autozones and Napa parts places etc in these rural areas/small towns? And when time comes their old rattle trap finally lays down, they're buying used and making payments on a 10+ year old vehicle because to them, it's as new as they can afford.

They don't want a handout and they're too proud to accept Government assistance. If they weren't, they'd have voted Democrat. These people want to work. They want their jobs back that NAFTA shipped overseas. They want their coal mines reopened and the EPA restrictions that closed them removed.

They know what party gave them NAFTA, they know what party made war on coal. They know what party promised a stronger middle class and then did everything possible to destroy it. And so they voted. This is why Republicans now control every level of Government. This is why Democrats and their policies were rejected Nationwide. These people don't want so called "progressive policies" shoved down their throats anymore. These people have gagged on the "socialist progressive" agenda for the last time. Face it, Liberalism the experiment has failed. And not because people are stupid, it's because they're smart. Chris B.
__________________
One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2017, 04:56 AM   #74
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13,277
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Sorry for such a late reply. I just found this.

I believe with such an obvious display of hatred for Americans, your post has you pegged as yet another reason the Democrats have lost so many election contests recently.

This thing about thinking one is better than someone else and denigrating so many million people within the population is disturbing.

The people you show so much contempt for ARE America. They don't have a silver spoon and most have a callus or two on their hands. These people work hard and pay their taxes. They're sick and tired of being told how they should live their lives to better suit someone that has no idea of what it means to worry about paying an electric bill or buying groceries, one or the other but not both. They're driving older vehicles far beyond their mechanical limits and keeping them on the road with constant costly repairs that they usually make themselves. Ever wonder why there are so many Autozones and Napa parts places etc in these rural areas/small towns? And when time comes their old rattle trap finally lays down, they're buying used and making payments on a 10+ year old vehicle because to them, it's as new as they can afford.

They don't want a handout and they're too proud to accept Government assistance. If they weren't, they'd have voted Democrat. These people want to work. They want their jobs back that NAFTA shipped overseas. They want their coal mines reopened and the EPA restrictions that closed them removed.

They know what party gave them NAFTA, they know what party made war on coal. They know what party promised a stronger middle class and then did everything possible to destroy it. And so they voted. This is why Republicans now control every level of Government. This is why Democrats and their policies were rejected Nationwide. These people don't want so called "progressive policies" shoved down their throats anymore. These people have gagged on the "socialist progressive" agenda for the last time. Face it, Liberalism the experiment has failed. And not because people are stupid, it's because they're smart. Chris B.


Can I just ask then, what is it you expect Trump to do to achieve what his support have voted for? how will he achieve what he's stated he will do? And, because it's unclear to me, what is it that he is intending to do?
__________________
Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2017, 05:06 AM   #75
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 78,928
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Can I just ask then, what is it you expect Trump to do to achieve what his support have voted for? how will he achieve what he's stated he will do? And, because it's unclear to me, what is it that he is intending to do?
That's rather an unfair ask! It is obvious that Trump himself has no clue what he is intending to do until he says something so asking his supporters to know what he is intending to do would require precognition.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2017, 05:18 AM   #76
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13,277
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That's rather an unfair ask! It is obvious that Trump himself has no clue what he is intending to do until he says something so asking his supporters to know what he is intending to do would require precognition.
This is what I'm trying to find out. He made so many statements, some of them contradictory, that I want to know what those who voted for him think he's going to do and how he's going to achieve what ChrisBFRPKY states is the desire of his voting base:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
These people want to work. They want their jobs back that NAFTA shipped overseas. They want their coal mines reopened and the EPA restrictions that closed them removed.
How is the president elect going to achieve this?

The answer to this question may be different from the answer to the question "how do his voting base believe he's going to achieve this?"


Which of his statements are his voters hanging their hats on to get what he promised?
__________________
Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2017, 05:30 AM   #77
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 17,403
Nancy Pelosi must be so upset that she didn't drain the swamp
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2017, 06:15 AM   #78
Regnad Kcin
Philosopher
 
Regnad Kcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,479
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I believe with such an obvious display of hatred for Americans...

Oh. Em. Gee.

There is so much wrong with the above - virtually every sentence - it would take the better part of this morning to correct it. Since I haven't that kind of time, I'll just remark:

Wow.
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

Last edited by Regnad Kcin; 5th January 2017 at 06:17 AM.
Regnad Kcin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2017, 06:18 AM   #79
Hungry81
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,518
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Sorry for such a late reply. I just found this.

I believe with such an obvious display of hatred for Americans, your post has you pegged as yet another reason the Democrats have lost so many election contests recently.
wow he disagrees with your point of view and he hates Americans.

Quote:
This thing about thinking one is better than someone else and denigrating so many million people within the population is disturbing.
You mean like Logger or Trump?
Quote:

The people you show so much contempt for ARE America.
They are a segment of Americans.
Quote:
They don't have a silver spoon and most have a callus or two on their hands. These people work hard and pay their taxes.
Just like the nominated leader of the party they voted for.... Oh wait
Quote:
They're sick and tired of being told how they should live their lives to better suit someone that has no idea of what it means to worry about paying an electric bill or buying groceries, one or the other but not both. They're driving older vehicles far beyond their mechanical limits and keeping them on the road with constant costly repairs that they usually make themselves.
And again Trump understands what its like?
Quote:
Ever wonder why there are so many Autozones and Napa parts places etc in these rural areas/small towns? And when time comes their old rattle trap finally lays down, they're buying used and making payments on a 10+ year old vehicle because to them, it's as new as they can afford.
And Republicans will fix this how?

Quote:
They don't want a handout and they're too proud to accept Government assistance.
but if they want the government to dismantle current policy enough that it mathemagically brings the jobs back isn't this a form of government assistance? If the Government has to prop up these ressurected companies or pay them millions to keep them from going offshore for a few years isn't that government assistance?
Quote:
If they weren't, they'd have voted Democrat. These people want to work. They want their jobs back that NAFTA shipped overseas. They want their coal mines reopened and the EPA restrictions that closed them removed.
well they had better hope that we are wrong and trump was not just making **** up. However reducing environmental regulations is sure to cause more problems. Sinkholes, burning underground coal, companies coming in mining out and abandoning old messes for the rapidly declining mining town population to deal with. Smoke smog and pollured wayer sources etc all worth it for some temporary jobs.

Quote:
They know what party gave them NAFTA, they know what party made war on coal. They know what party promised a stronger middle class and then did everything possible to destroy it. And so they voted. This is why Republicans now control every level of Government.
because things were awesome when they only had the power to block Obama in the senate right?
Quote:
This is why Democrats and their policies were rejected Nationwide.
time will tell. Once again If Trump Lied or has no plan things will likely get worse but at least you can keep blaming the democrats
Quote:
These people don't want so called "progressive policies" shoved down their throats anymore.
yeah just spout BS and tell the people fairy tales. its all good as long as it is what they want to hear.
Quote:
These people have gagged on the "socialist progressive" agenda for the last time. Face it, Liberalism the experiment has failed. And not because people are stupid, it's because they're smart. Chris B.
Let's just see How Trump goes before you call Liberalisim dead.



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Last edited by Hungry81; 5th January 2017 at 06:20 AM.
Hungry81 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2017, 06:50 AM   #80
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,844
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Sorry for such a late reply. I just found this.

I believe with such an obvious display of hatred for Americans, your post has you pegged as yet another reason the Democrats have lost so many election contests recently.

This thing about thinking one is better than someone else and denigrating so many million people within the population is disturbing.

The people you show so much contempt for ARE America. They don't have a silver spoon and most have a callus or two on their hands. These people work hard and pay their taxes. They're sick and tired of being told how they should live their lives to better suit someone that has no idea of what it means to worry about paying an electric bill or buying groceries, one or the other but not both. They're driving older vehicles far beyond their mechanical limits and keeping them on the road with constant costly repairs that they usually make themselves. Ever wonder why there are so many Autozones and Napa parts places etc in these rural areas/small towns? And when time comes their old rattle trap finally lays down, they're buying used and making payments on a 10+ year old vehicle because to them, it's as new as they can afford.

They don't want a handout and they're too proud to accept Government assistance. If they weren't, they'd have voted Democrat. These people want to work. They want their jobs back that NAFTA shipped overseas. They want their coal mines reopened and the EPA restrictions that closed them removed.

They know what party gave them NAFTA, they know what party made war on coal. They know what party promised a stronger middle class and then did everything possible to destroy it. And so they voted. This is why Republicans now control every level of Government. This is why Democrats and their policies were rejected Nationwide. These people don't want so called "progressive policies" shoved down their throats anymore. These people have gagged on the "socialist progressive" agenda for the last time. Face it, Liberalism the experiment has failed. And not because people are stupid, it's because they're smart. Chris B.
Those are millions of voters that believe a lot of dumb crap.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:21 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.