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Old 6th January 2017, 12:17 AM   #121
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Letting Goldman Sachs run our economy? Appointing people to head agencies they have vowed to disband? Hang out with Kanye instead of take security briefings? Praise a fascist dictator?



No, they are expanding another factory in Mexico and "modernizing" ie automating facilities in the US



Carrier got $7 million to keep 300 jobs here for a few months, then ship them to Mexico and automated its facilities here. Do you not follow the news?

Besides, whatever happen top "the government should not be picking winners"? Why do they need the tax payers to bribe them?



Well, on that we agree.



Because its smoke and mirrors and will actually cost us more money and jobs? Because he saved 1.2 million jobs when he and Congress stopped GM from going under? Because he knows how economies work far better than a conman who lived off his daddy's charity his whole life?



You know the ACA actually slowed the increase in rates, right? Could you perhaps explain how Trump is going to improve on the ACA?



Coal is dying because it is a less efficient way of getitng energy than oil. the free market is killing it. And what are you going to tell all those people who are now going to start dying from the waste products being pumped in the air and water? Your gas won't even get cheaper.



So, you want a wall except for where you don't want one? Then what is the point? Besides, we actually have fewer undocumented aliens here now than we have in a long time. Al la wall does is stick us with a $66 billion tab for some government contractors.



Yes, taxes will be lowered, but since there will be less infrastructure and the job pool with be less healthy and less educated, and banks will have fewer incentives to lend to small businesses, there will be less reason to start one.



Why do they need a bribe? What about the cost of labor? Should they be allowed to pay the wages they pay in Mexico or China? Again, see my point about infrastructure and employment pool.



Like ones that make ugly ties and ill fitting suits?



Ya, like a month after never.



No it hasn't



Or at all if we use the plan you and Fred's kid apaprently have.



Except if the black guy is in charge. Then, he needs to bring back all the jobs, get everyone a master's degree and cure cancer in his first 100 days.





Unless it all continues to be sent directly to the top .1%. Which it looks like it will



Thanks, Obama!
I think you must rely on fake news. Your facts are lacking.
Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:28 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
And here is the fantasy. Even if manufacturing returned the USA those factories are going to be full of robots, not people. Of course automation killed more jobs than outsourcing but that's one of those pesky facts we've told don't matter anymore. Likewise you can tap dance about 'clean coal' but its still nasty dirty stuff that's awkward to transport, especially when thanks to fracking nice, clean, easy to transport natural gas is abundant. Trump and co. can undo all the EPA regs they like, gas is still going to be abundant and easier to use.

Cold hard truth is that those jobs are gone. Once upon a time people made a good living manufacturing steam locomotives and operating canal barges. I'm sure those people were desperate to turn back the clock and I'm sure they had some bogeyman to blame as well.
Nope, I'm not buying it. Robots are not replacing people in factories. Certainly they are used in repetitive jobs that need to be performed exactly the same each time, but there's a human standing there at the button. There's a human performing the setup and the maintenance on it. There's a human programming part run changes. It goes on.

Some day, when we create androids that can walk around like people perhaps they will replace workers, but that's a long way off if ever.

I've worked around and with robots before. Their addition created jobs, it didn't take them away.

This whole argument that the jobs are being lost to automation is bunk. A creation of the Left to explain away job shortages in a way that distracts from the real reason jobs have been lost, exportation. Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:49 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Because the goal of regulation is not to make it decline, it is to make it so that the coal mining that occurs is done properly.
EPA regulations on clean air that target coal burning plants specifically.

I worked at ETN axle division as a young man. When I first started there I ran a machine process called "The Snyder". It was a behemoth piece of equipment. It did many operations to the semi truck rear ends we mfgd. It could drill holes,machined housing surfaces, paint housings, you name it, this thing did it.

While working in the area of and around the machine I typically breathed in a smoggy-foggy cloud of pollutants. It was actually foggy inside around this thing. There were paint fumes, coolant mists both water based and oil based. A literal fog, you get the picture. No respirators were made available to us.

OSHA came in to do an inspection of the air quality. "We" (my co-workers and myself) cheered. We figured, now they'll have to do something. And they did. The OSHA report said they found cigarette smoke in the air and so we had to go outside to smoke from then on.

These are the type of regulations that need addressed for any industry. The EPA has tightened down on the coal industry with similar ridiculous regulations. Everyone wants clean air. We can agree on that. We can also install scrubbers on smoke stacks and let plants use coal too.

I have nothing against natural gas, we have a lot of that in KY as well. However, coal is also a valuable resource and should be opened up to use as well. Anything to help the US become energy independent is a good thing.
Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:49 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Nope, I'm not buying it. Robots are not replacing people in factories. Certainly they are used in repetitive jobs that need to be performed exactly the same each time, but there's a human standing there at the button. There's a human performing the setup and the maintenance on it. There's a human programming part run changes. It goes on.

Some day, when we create androids that can walk around like people perhaps they will replace workers, but that's a long way off if ever.

I've worked around and with robots before. Their addition created jobs, it didn't take them away.

This whole argument that the jobs are being lost to automation is bunk. A creation of the Left to explain away job shortages in a way that distracts from the real reason jobs have been lost, exportation. Chris B.
....and yet there it is, all over the world companies are producing more and more stuff with fewer and fewer workers.

This doesn't mean that the requirement for human workers will be eliminated altogether anytime soon, but that many fewer workers will be required and that those workers will have to be more skilled.

Even if Trump manages to get all the "lost" manufacturing back to the U.S., it's not going to need anything like the same number of unskilled and semi-skilled workers and those workers aren't going to earn anything like the same kinds of wages.......

.....unless the U.S. is going to completely isolate itself and go back to have 50's and 60's levels of pricing for manufactured goods relative to income (and with that go back to having 50's and 60's levels of consumption) - which would make the U.S. ripe for smuggling in cheaper (and better quality due to the use of automation) goods.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:52 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
EPA regulations on clean air that target coal burning plants specifically.

I worked at ETN axle division as a young man. When I first started there I ran a machine process called "The Snyder". It was a behemoth piece of equipment. It did many operations to the semi truck rear ends we mfgd. It could drill holes,machined housing surfaces, paint housings, you name it, this thing did it.

While working in the area of and around the machine I typically breathed in a smoggy-foggy cloud of pollutants. It was actually foggy inside around this thing. There were paint fumes, coolant mists both water based and oil based. A literal fog, you get the picture. No respirators were made available to us.

OSHA came in to do an inspection of the air quality. "We" (my co-workers and myself) cheered. We figured, now they'll have to do something. And they did. The OSHA report said they found cigarette smoke in the air and so we had to go outside to smoke from then on.

These are the type of regulations that need addressed for any industry. The EPA has tightened down on the coal industry with similar ridiculous regulations. Everyone wants clean air. We can agree on that. We can also install scrubbers on smoke stacks and let plants use coal too.

I have nothing against natural gas, we have a lot of that in KY as well. However, coal is also a valuable resource and should be opened up to use as well. Anything to help the US become energy independent is a good thing.
Chris B.
Still not going to bring back the Appalachian coal jobs because:

- gas is far cheaper
- even if coal is used, it'll be cheaper to mine Wyoming coal
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Old 6th January 2017, 01:14 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'll just pick this point to address, but there's just as much "wrong" with the rest.

Even in those areas where EPA restrictions do not apply (and remember they're there to preserve air quality and protect the environment but let's pretend that none of this matters any more and the our future is smog-shaped), gas is overwhelmingly preferred as a fuel because it's far, far cheaper. The coal jobs won't come back if the EPA legislation is repealed.

Let's imagine that the price of natural gas shoots up so that coal is cost-effective again. If that the case then the growth will be in the West where surface mining is much, much cheaper and much less labour intensive. The coal jobs won't come back if the price of natural gas increases.

The only way that the jobs would come back is if the US power generation is forced to take a minimum amount of coal from deep-mined sourced. This would result in a significant increase in the price of electricity. Government interference to deliberately make a market less cost effective doesn't sound like GOP policy to me.

Of course this has been explained several times but you choose to ignore it.
Very good points all, yet let's wait and see if coal opens back up. I'll bet it does.

Power generation never gets cheaper. How many refunds have been received from a former coal burning facility that has switched to cheaper natural gas?

How many received a lower electric bill as a result of this much cheaper fuel?

I guess if coal is on the way out, natural gas won't last forever either, you'll soon be buying your fuel rods for nuclear plants from KY anyway, so eventually you'll come back to us for your power plant fuel needs.........
Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 01:19 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Very good points all, yet let's wait and see if coal opens back up. I'll bet it does.

Power generation never gets cheaper. How many refunds have been received from a former coal burning facility that has switched to cheaper natural gas?

How many received a lower electric bill as a result of this much cheaper fuel?

I guess if coal is on the way out, natural gas won't last forever either, you'll soon be buying your fuel rods for nuclear plants from KY anyway, so eventually you'll come back to us for your power plant fuel needs.........
Chris B.
I was saying that burning gas is cheaper than burning deep-mined coal which is true.

The price of electricity do domestic customers in the US has dropped 40% in the last 50 years in real (inflation adjusted) terms:

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=20372

Even if coal does come back into the mix in a couple of hundred years once gas becomes more expensive, it'll be open cast mined Wyoming coal.
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Old 6th January 2017, 01:34 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I was saying that burning gas is cheaper than burning deep-mined coal which is true.

The price of electricity do domestic customers in the US has dropped 40% in the last 50 years in real (inflation adjusted) terms:

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=20372

Even if coal does come back into the mix in a couple of hundred years once gas becomes more expensive, it'll be open cast mined Wyoming coal.
That's funny, priced based on "real inflation figures". However the cost on the electric bill has been rising every year, regardless of "the current inflation value of money."

Oh that was rich! Thank you.

Wyoming coal is too stinky. We have strip mining too.
Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 01:54 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
That's funny, priced based on "real inflation figures". However the cost on the electric bill has been rising every year, regardless of "the current inflation value of money."

Oh that was rich! Thank you.
I'm not sure what's so funny about expressing costs over long periods of time on an inflation adjusted basis

As the article made clear, in the short term the cost of generating electricity has indeed dropped and that this has helped to offset increases in the other costs associated with supplying electricity to domestic consumers.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Wyoming coal is too stinky. We have strip mining too.
Chris B.
Maybe you do but if you're strip mining you only need a small fraction of the number of employees you need to deep mine.

Even if coal use increases, the jobs aren't coming back - or more specifically only a tiny fraction of the number of jobs are coming back and the wages won't be comparable.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:03 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm not sure what's so funny about expressing costs over long periods of time on an inflation adjusted basis

As the article made clear, in the short term the cost of generating electricity has indeed dropped and that this has helped to offset increases in the other costs associated with supplying electricity to domestic consumers.



Maybe you do but if you're strip mining you only need a small fraction of the number of employees you need to deep mine.

Even if coal use increases, the jobs aren't coming back - or more specifically only a tiny fraction of the number of jobs are coming back and the wages won't be comparable.
As in the cost the consumer pays has not decreased. Meaning the consumer pays a higher cost every year. Actual costs of production for the power companies may be lowered due to reduced fuel cost, but the consumer never pays a lower bill, only higher. Even though the increase in rates is different year to year, it is still an increase every year. Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:13 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
As in the cost the consumer pays has not decreased. Meaning the consumer pays a higher cost every year. Actual costs of production for the power companies may be lowered due to reduced fuel cost, but the consumer never pays a lower bill, only higher. Even though the increase in rates is different year to year, it is still an increase every year. Chris B.
It is, but the reason it's expressed in inflation adjusted terms is that it provides an indication as to whether it's less or more affordable over long periods of time.

Although recently, they have apparently been falling in absolute terms too:

http://insideenergy.org/2016/10/07/u...ot-everywhere/

The states where there haven't been falls are those that rely on (comparatively expensive) coal to a greater degree.

In possibly unrelated news, electricity consumption is expected to rise

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=29112

So even though the per-unit cost has fallen, people's profligacy has meant that bills will likely not fall.



Nevertheless - those coal jobs are still not coming back for good economic reasons even if Trump ensures that the environmental protections are gutted.
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Old 6th January 2017, 03:21 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Exactly what he has been doing, and he's not even been sworn into office yet.
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Hmm, and how can Trump save them too? He's not even in office yet. Perhaps you should direct your concerns to King Obama?
Chris B.


Is he able to do stuff or not?
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Old 6th January 2017, 03:27 AM   #133
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far too confrontational, disregard.
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Last edited by 3point14; 6th January 2017 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 6th January 2017, 03:52 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Is he able to do stuff or not?
Certainly he is doing stuff, there is a limit to all the good things he can accomplish prior to actually holding the office though. Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 04:01 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It is, but the reason it's expressed in inflation adjusted terms is that it provides an indication as to whether it's less or more affordable over long periods of time.

Although recently, they have apparently been falling in absolute terms too:

http://insideenergy.org/2016/10/07/u...ot-everywhere/

The states where there haven't been falls are those that rely on (comparatively expensive) coal to a greater degree.

In possibly unrelated news, electricity consumption is expected to rise

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=29112

So even though the per-unit cost has fallen, people's profligacy has meant that bills will likely not fall.



Nevertheless - those coal jobs are still not coming back for good economic reasons even if Trump ensures that the environmental protections are gutted.
Wow, I'm shocked. Electric prices fell 2% in Colorado. I stand corrected. I see the article pointed out prices didn't decline until 2016 due to infrastructure investments. Perhaps everyone should legalize mary jane if it makes electricity cheaper. I had guessed it would have made the costs higher with all those pink floyd records playing, lava lamps and strobe lights etc. Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 06:05 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Nope, I'm not buying it. Robots are not replacing people in factories. Certainly they are used in repetitive jobs that need to be performed exactly the same each time, but there's a human standing there at the button. There's a human performing the setup and the maintenance on it. There's a human programming part run changes. It goes on.

Some day, when we create androids that can walk around like people perhaps they will replace workers, but that's a long way off if ever.

I've worked around and with robots before. Their addition created jobs, it didn't take them away.
This is breathtakingly bizarre and wrong I hardly know where to begin. Are you seriously suggesting that, for example, welding and painting robots haven't replaced jobs in car manufacturing? That pick and place machines and wave soldering haven't replaced people in the electronics industry? Also in a production environment you don't design some Data style android to do everything a human worker can do, you break what the human does down into simple steps that can be done by machines, this isn't just how factory automation works, its one of the fundamental ideas behind mass production itself.

Secondly automation isn't all about robots in factories. Look at Kindle or Netflix, they have effectively automated a huge section of the retail industry. Look at the fate of Blockbuster:

Blockbuster LLC (formerly Blockbuster Entertainment, Inc.), often shortened to Blockbuster, was an American-based provider of home movie and video game rental services through video rental shops, DVD-by-mail, streaming, video on demand, and cinema theater. At its peak in 2004, Blockbuster consisted of nearly 60,000 employees and over 8,000 stores. As a result of various factors including competition from Netflix, Redbox, and video on demand services, Blockbuster lost significant revenue and filed for bankruptcy protection on September 23, 2010. On April 6, 2011, the company and its remaining 1,700 stores were bought by satellite television provider Dish Network. While the Blockbuster brand has mostly been retired, Dish still maintains some Blockbuster franchise agreements, with 12 stores remaining.

That doesn't even allow for the impact on printing firms, DVD makers, packaging firms and of course delivery drivers.
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:37 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Wow, I'm shocked. Electric prices fell 2% in Colorado. I stand corrected. I see the article pointed out prices didn't decline until 2016 due to infrastructure investments. Perhaps everyone should legalize mary jane if it makes electricity cheaper. I had guessed it would have made the costs higher with all those pink floyd records playing, lava lamps and strobe lights etc. Chris B.
Regardless.....

Burning coal will not make electricity cheaper (though Trump never promised it will so I suppose it's even more off topic than this discussion) but even if the EPA restrictions were all dropped tomorrow the coal jobs are not coming back to the Appalachians because:
  • It's cheaper to generate electricity from gas - and looks to be for the forseeable future
  • Even if coal staged a comeback it'll be from open cast Wyoming mines with little demand for labour, not deep mines

....so your rant about the EPA killing coal jobs is well off the mark.
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:40 AM   #138
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Blockbuster nothing. look at what online shopping did to Sears and KMart.
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Old 6th January 2017, 08:07 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Blockbuster nothing. look at what online shopping did to Sears and KMart.
....and did for jobs in the warehousing and delivery industry - of course there will be fewer of them and they may not pay as well.

It's come full circle back to the mid-to-late 19th century when people bought big ticket items from a (Sears ?) catalogue and waited for delivery.
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Old 6th January 2017, 08:07 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Hmm, and how can Trump save them too? He's not even in office yet. Perhaps you should direct your concerns to King Obama?
Chris B.
So.

Positive stories = Trump Victory (Winning without being in office yet!)
Negative stories = Obama Failure (Just wait till Trump is in office!!)


Dude.

Weak. Pathetic. Stupid.

Enjoy this hollow victory while you can. Long term, you people are **********.
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Old 6th January 2017, 08:09 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Nope, I'm not buying it. Robots are not replacing people in factories. Certainly they are used in repetitive jobs that need to be performed exactly the same each time, but there's a human standing there at the button. There's a human performing the setup and the maintenance on it. There's a human programming part run changes. It goes on.
Sweet. Now you've listed 3 people doing what 300 used to.

How's yer maths?
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Old 6th January 2017, 08:39 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I think you must rely on fake news. Your facts are lacking.
Chris B.
Should i take this as a confirmation that you can't actually argue against anything he said and instead will prefer to ignore it?
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Old 6th January 2017, 08:41 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I think you must rely on fake news. Your facts are lacking.
Chris B.
This is not a substantive rebuttal.

Could you be more specific?
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Old 6th January 2017, 09:16 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
This is not a substantive rebuttal.

Could you be more specific?
LOL

No.
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Old 6th January 2017, 09:34 AM   #145
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I will be amused to see a man whos recent gimmick was to tell people on a TV show that they were fired, being able to bring back all these jobs. Would that be irony? Im drunk and serious. would it? Just a little? Ha.

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Old 6th January 2017, 09:42 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....and did for jobs in the warehousing and delivery industry - of course there will be fewer of them and they may not pay as well.

It's come full circle back to the mid-to-late 19th century when people bought big ticket items from a (Sears ?) catalogue and waited for delivery.
Well as far as the warehousing probably not a huge difference, those physical good still had had to be held and distributed to stores. Of course for those goods where the digital has replaced the physical there will be a decline. Delivery drivers probably have increased in number, but they are on the hit list for automation with the development of driverless vehicles.
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:34 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Sweet. Now you've listed 3 people doing what 300 used to.

How's yer maths?
Exactly.
Look at a modern car production line and compare it with one from just twenty years ago, there's hardly anyone in sight.
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:43 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Exactly.
Look at a modern car production line and compare it with one from just twenty years ago, there's hardly anyone in sight.
If you ever watch the show "How It's Made" it is often surprising when there is something that actually requires a lot of hands-on work. A huge chunk of the time the only people involved are the ones who dump in the ingredients. Some times, there is the point where the worker has to connect the two pieces together and tighten.

I have to admit, when I see that, all I can think is, I'm glad there are other people to do those jobs because it looks mind-numbingly boring to me. If I had that job, I'd be constantly trying to come up ways to automate so I didn't have to do it.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:30 PM   #149
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Ya, we really need to stop fetishizing these types of jobs. Technology has been replacing manual labor since we figured out how our thumbs work. Why should it stop now? Why do we insist on paying someone for work that doesn't need to be done by them?

Its not like the folks doing these jobs are craftsmen making individual pieces that they alone profit from.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:50 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
If you ever watch the show "How It's Made" it is often surprising when there is something that actually requires a lot of hands-on work. A huge chunk of the time the only people involved are the ones who dump in the ingredients. Some times, there is the point where the worker has to connect the two pieces together and tighten.

I have to admit, when I see that, all I can think is, I'm glad there are other people to do those jobs because it looks mind-numbingly boring to me. If I had that job, I'd be constantly trying to come up ways to automate so I didn't have to do it.
In the end that's all that will be left on the production line, a few fiddly tedious jobs that can't readily be automated. Another example from 'How it's Made' is all those food factories where the human input is watching the product go by to pick out any substandard items, they only have those jobs because building a machine that would pick out those defective products is currently not cost effective. Doesn't mean those are good well paying jobs.

All Trump is doing with his fairy tales is delaying further a serious discussion of how society deals with the issue of all these jobs that have gone and aren't coming back.
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Old 6th January 2017, 05:30 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Sweet. Now you've listed 3 people doing what 300 used to.

How's yer maths?
Perhaps you're a bit confused. I listed 3 people taking care of a robot that does one job. One worker was replaced, three were hired to tend the robot replacement. Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 05:37 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
This is breathtakingly bizarre and wrong I hardly know where to begin. Are you seriously suggesting that, for example, welding and painting robots haven't replaced jobs in car manufacturing? That pick and place machines and wave soldering haven't replaced people in the electronics industry? Also in a production environment you don't design some Data style android to do everything a human worker can do, you break what the human does down into simple steps that can be done by machines, this isn't just how factory automation works, its one of the fundamental ideas behind mass production itself.

Secondly automation isn't all about robots in factories. Look at Kindle or Netflix, they have effectively automated a huge section of the retail industry. Look at the fate of Blockbuster:

Blockbuster LLC (formerly Blockbuster Entertainment, Inc.), often shortened to Blockbuster, was an American-based provider of home movie and video game rental services through video rental shops, DVD-by-mail, streaming, video on demand, and cinema theater. At its peak in 2004, Blockbuster consisted of nearly 60,000 employees and over 8,000 stores. As a result of various factors including competition from Netflix, Redbox, and video on demand services, Blockbuster lost significant revenue and filed for bankruptcy protection on September 23, 2010. On April 6, 2011, the company and its remaining 1,700 stores were bought by satellite television provider Dish Network. While the Blockbuster brand has mostly been retired, Dish still maintains some Blockbuster franchise agreements, with 12 stores remaining.

That doesn't even allow for the impact on printing firms, DVD makers, packaging firms and of course delivery drivers.
There are some industries that rely heavily on automation. Electronics would be a big one. However the majority of mfg factories in the Central US rely heavily on the human factor. They relocated to reap the benefit of lower wages, not because there was no need for workers due to automation.

It seems you are arguing that the American worker need not work? I don't see that philosophy working very well for the Country. Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 05:39 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
This is not a substantive rebuttal.

Could you be more specific?
Ford cancelled 1.6 billion dollar plant in Mexico, you said it didn't happen, I said it did. We have a conflict of info sources.
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Old 6th January 2017, 05:46 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Perhaps you're a bit confused. I listed 3 people taking care of a robot that does one job. One worker was replaced, three were hired to tend the robot replacement. Chris B.
Are you serious? You think companies automate so they will have to hire more people and increase labour costs?
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Old 6th January 2017, 05:54 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Are you serious? You think companies automate so they will have to hire more people and increase labour costs?
In some cases absolutely. Robots replace people to do a specific job that requires an exact process each time. There's still a person at the controls.

Automation still requires workers. What do you think is currently happening in US factories? Do you think they're all automated and the people in the front office simply turn on the switch when they come into work?
Or perhaps the front office is automated too and someone throws a switch from the company headquarters? Until they get automated too huh.....
Chris B.
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Old 6th January 2017, 06:20 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Perhaps you're a bit confused. I listed 3 people taking care of a robot that does one job. One worker was replaced, three were hired to tend the robot replacement. Chris B.
That is truly a display of ignorance.

3 people take care of 1 robot that was designed to replace just 1 person.

Did I read that right?
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Old 6th January 2017, 06:34 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
In some cases absolutely. Robots replace people to do a specific job that requires an exact process each time. There's still a person at the controls.

Automation still requires workers. What do you think is currently happening in US factories? Do you think they're all automated and the people in the front office simply turn on the switch when they come into work?
Or perhaps the front office is automated too and someone throws a switch from the company headquarters? Until they get automated too huh.....
Chris B.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lights...manufacturing)
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:08 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
In some cases absolutely. Robots replace people to do a specific job that requires an exact process each time. There's still a person at the controls.

Automation still requires workers. What do you think is currently happening in US factories? Do you think they're all automated and the people in the front office simply turn on the switch when they come into work?
Or perhaps the front office is automated too and someone throws a switch from the company headquarters? Until they get automated too huh.....
Chris B.
So what do you say is exactly the average replacement rate, using actual statistics?
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:20 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
In some cases absolutely. Robots replace people to do a specific job that requires an exact process each time. There's still a person at the controls.

Automation still requires workers. What do you think is currently happening in US factories? Do you think they're all automated and the people in the front office simply turn on the switch when they come into work?
Or perhaps the front office is automated too and someone throws a switch from the company headquarters? Until they get automated too huh.....
Chris B.
Please don't speak of which you do not know. I've implemented automation. It eliminated jobs. That was the point. As a matter of fact, I turned so many of my departments into near auto-piloting, the company felt confident enough to lay me off.
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:34 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
That is interesting, especially since the only known 2 factories are overseas. One in Japan and the other in the Netherlands.....

It's just not possible with most automotive and support industries. There are too many processes that still require humans.
Chris B.
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