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Old 9th January 2017, 03:18 AM   #201
ChrisBFRPKY
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[quote=The Don;11660895]Re: item 2 - if it relocated to India, NAFTA wasn't to blame

No-one has ever claimed that no manufacturing was ever moved as a result of NAFTA but:
  • Right now the U.S. is manufacturing more than when NAFTA came into force. Yes, with fewer people but that's a result of automation
  • Even if all the manufacturing which was offshored was returned to the U.S., there'd be many fewer jobs than before due to automation
  • The abandonment of NAFTA would have a negative effect in terms of much higher prices
  • Without NAFTA, those U.S. manufacturers who are doing well (and because manufacturing is up there must be a lot of them) would have a much smaller market to sell to, being resticted to the U.S. domestic market

Remember this strand of the thread is all about Trump claiming that if the U.S. abandons NAFTA, the manufacturing jobs that were "lost" overseas will all return to the U.S.. This is nonsense.

btw, are you still standing by your claim that introducing automation to a factory increases employment threefold or have you though about that a little more ?[/QUOTE]

In my experience with robots at SKF-USA that's exactly what happened.

Of course in general I'm sure some jobs are lost to automation. It depends on the type of work being automated.

I still maintain the decline of manufacturing jobs down to 9% of the work force was due to factory closures and relocations much more than the shift to automation. Lost factories also equals lost jobs. Chris B.
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Old 9th January 2017, 03:32 AM   #202
The Don
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Re: item 2 - if it relocated to India, NAFTA wasn't to blame

No-one has ever claimed that no manufacturing was ever moved as a result of NAFTA but:
  • Right now the U.S. is manufacturing more than when NAFTA came into force. Yes, with fewer people but that's a result of automation
  • Even if all the manufacturing which was offshored was returned to the U.S., there'd be many fewer jobs than before due to automation
  • The abandonment of NAFTA would have a negative effect in terms of much higher prices
  • Without NAFTA, those U.S. manufacturers who are doing well (and because manufacturing is up there must be a lot of them) would have a much smaller market to sell to, being resticted to the U.S. domestic market

Remember this strand of the thread is all about Trump claiming that if the U.S. abandons NAFTA, the manufacturing jobs that were "lost" overseas will all return to the U.S.. This is nonsense.

btw, are you still standing by your claim that introducing automation to a factory increases employment threefold or have you though about that a little more ?[
In my experience with robots at SKF-USA that's exactly what happened.

Of course in general I'm sure some jobs are lost to automation. It depends on the type of work being automated.

I still maintain the decline of manufacturing jobs down to 9% of the work force was due to factory closures and relocations much more than the shift to automation. Lost factories also equals lost jobs. Chris B.
You can maintain all you like but the facts run counter to your arguments.
  • U.S. manufacturing output is at an all time high - reductions in manpower are therefore due to efficiency savings, automation and product design
  • Wages are up significantly in real terms since NAFTA came into force in the early 1990s both for the economy as a whole and specifically for non-supervisory roles
  • Under Obama there has been a manufacturing boom with 1 million more people employed in manufacturing - in stark contrast to Bush where more than 30% of manufacting jobs were lost

The idea that, as a result of automation, a company would triple its workforce for no increase in output is difficult to believe. Perhaps it did happen but a company that incompetent should go out of business.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:02 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I think Trump is off to a good start. He may not turn it around but it seems there may be a few companies that take his lead seriously. Chris B.
What lead is that? How can you or businesses take him seriously when he contradicts himself and lies so often? Why can't you understand that he is spinning straw and NOT turning it into gold he is just telling you he is.

NAFTA has proven POSITIVE increase in manufacturing overall, Whereas Trump has his merchandise and products made in China.


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Old 9th January 2017, 05:04 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
LOL according to you guys there is no problem with US manufacturing........I think you've been had.
The belief in the US as a special snowflake is strong today. In the real world this isn't something that's specific to the US at all and is concurrent with something occurring throughout much of the developed western world.

Just like in the US the areas the areas that were historically heavily industrialized until recently are often the same areas that now struggle economically while the areas that weren't heavily industrialized often do better. They are often hamstrung by an under-educate workforce, which relied less on formal education and more on practical skills, unwilling to embrace change. These areas need to find new niches in order to regenerate themselves otherwise they will continue to be backwards and poor.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:37 AM   #205
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Trump wants to bring back manufacturing jobs by lowering wages to "compete" with those wages in China and Taiwan.
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:54 AM   #206
The Don
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Trump wants to bring back manufacturing jobs by lowering wages to "compete" with those wages in China and Taiwan.
Well that's a surefire way to make the US manufacturing worker better off
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Old 9th January 2017, 06:12 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
LOL according to you guys there is no problem with US manufacturing........I think you've been had.

Even Obama knows NAFTA kills US manufacturing. Why else did he target Chinese solar companies with import tariffs? I'll tell you why, because NAFTA killed his pet solar projects and green energy US jobs, that's why. You see it's ok to kill all the other manufacturing jobs and send those overseas, but when it interferes with Obama's plan for the US to create jobs manufacturing green energy products, then it's not ok. Someone needs to make up their mind.
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We are the world's second largest manufacturer. We make more now than at any time in our history.
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:28 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
"Foreman says these jobs are goin' boys, and they ain't comin' back . . ."

If you think Trump is going to get them back in any significant number, you're wearing those rose-colored glasses.
Billy Joel released "Allentown" about the loss of steel jobs in Pennsylvania. In 1982. What did Reagan do to get those steel jobs back? Republicans have had 20 years in the White House to do something about that.
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:41 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Billy Joel released "Allentown" about the loss of steel jobs in Pennsylvania. In 1982. What did Reagan do to get those steel jobs back? Republicans have had 20 years in the White House to do something about that.
Ah, but Trump is a new broom who will sweep away the GOP old guard who were and are advocates for globalisation. Both Bushes (and to a much lesser extent Reagan because he're revered so much) were part of that old guard.

Trump will put America First and make sure that manufacturing comes back to the U.S. by making it prohibitively expensive for companies wishing to sell in the U.S. to manufacture anywhere other than the U.S.. Of course there will be inflationary pressures as a result but the new manufacturing jobs will ensure that everyone who matters is so well off that they don't notice it.

For sure U.S. goods will be less competitive overseas but no doubt Trump has in mind some way to compel overseas countries to take a certain amount of U.S. goods regardless of need or cost.
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:45 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Trump will put America First and make sure that manufacturing comes back to the U.S. by making it prohibitively expensive for companies wishing to sell in the U.S. to manufacture anywhere other than the U.S.. Of course there will be inflationary pressures as a result but the new manufacturing jobs will ensure that everyone who matters is so well off that they don't notice it.
The best thing Trump could do is to put WalMart out of business.

It would make his supporters' heads explode.

But wouldn't that be cool?
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:51 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
The best thing Trump could do is to put WalMart out of business.

It would make his supporters' heads explode.

But wouldn't that be cool?
In the extremely unlikely event that happened - would still be Obama or Hillary's fault.
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Old 9th January 2017, 09:17 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
In the extremely unlikely event that happened - would still be Obama or Hillary's fault.
Of course.
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Old 9th January 2017, 09:36 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Reality, something the Left knows little of. The EPA regs that have been put on the books as a result of Obama's war on coal will be trashed. Mark it down.
Multiple people pointed to you that these jobs arent going back with or without regulations. Time changes and environment where those jobs flourished is long ago gone. You, of course, ignored that, since your Fuhrer is apparently miracle-maker. Or something.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Nope, I'm not buying it. Robots are not replacing people in factories.
Of course they are. You are in denial.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Certainly they are used in repetitive jobs that need to be performed exactly the same each time,
And once people did that job. Where they are now?

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
but there's a human standing there at the button. There's a human performing the setup and the maintenance on it. There's a human programming part run changes. It goes on.
Nice denial that completely ignores fact that every "human standing there at the button" replaces dozen of workers.

BTW your remark about androids is beyond silly.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Another dose of reality coming, are you ready? Hillary won the popular vote. However that does not elect a President.
You miss my point. It is not about requirements for winning elections. It is about rethorical claptrap like "people has spoken" (implication: majority of them that voted) that is simply untrue, since majority of people that voted indeed spoken, but for exact opposite.

Let's take your "This is why Democrats and their policies were rejected Nationwide". This statement is, surprise surprise, false.

Democrats and their policies weren't rejected nationwide. Opposite happened: republicans and their policies were rejected (majority of people voted against them), yet they are in power despite that.

Quote from this article says it all:

Quote:
Not only did Donald Trump win the White House despite trailing by more than 2.8 million popular votes, but Republicans held onto a fifty-two-seat majority in the Senate despite losing by even more — some 10.5 million votes overall.

GOP candidates did better in the House, outpolling Democrats by a total of 1.1 percent. But through the miracle of gerrymandering, they managed to translate that slim lead into nearly fifty extra seats — 241 versus the Democrats’ 194.

In other words, of America’s four top governing institutions, a minority party was able to take control of one, maintain its grip on a second, grab more than its fair share of a third, and set about seizing a fourth — the Supreme Court — by filling the vacancy created by Antonin Scalia’s mysterious death last February. Americans voted for a centrist party by a significant number, yet are winding up with ultra-right government across the board.
Well, I guess it was known for long time already that USA is pseudodemocracy.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
In the extremely unlikely event that happened - would still be Obama or Hillary's fault.
It should be obvious that future Fuhrer of murica is infallible and any mistake or failure will be fault of anyone and everyone else, starting first and foremost with that uppity n***a.
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Old 9th January 2017, 04:08 PM   #214
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USA today reporting how Tillerson made illegal deals with iran while the guardian points out 3 members of the cabinet along with trump won't be releasing their financial details.
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:59 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by imodium View Post
USA today reporting how Tillerson made illegal deals with iran while the guardian points out 3 members of the cabinet along with trump won't be releasing their financial details.
The swamp is being drained so sewage outflows can be installed.

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Old 9th January 2017, 08:18 PM   #216
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I don't understand trump's plan. Don't raise the minimum wage, bring all jobs back to America, get rid of regulations, and the middle class in middle America comes out ahead?
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Old 9th January 2017, 08:41 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by elemental View Post
I don't understand trump's plan. Don't raise the minimum wage, bring all jobs back to America, get rid of regulations, and the middle class in middle America comes out ahead?
I think you understand the plan, just not the actual goal. He wants to do all that you said above but only so that the wealthy can gain more profit. Welcome to Trump's United Corporations of America.
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Old 9th January 2017, 11:28 PM   #218
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
Multiple people pointed to you that these jobs arent going back with or without regulations. Time changes and environment where those jobs flourished is long ago gone. You, of course, ignored that, since your Fuhrer is apparently miracle-maker. Or something.


Of course they are. You are in denial.


And once people did that job. Where they are now?


Nice denial that completely ignores fact that every "human standing there at the button" replaces dozen of workers.

BTW your remark about androids is beyond silly.



You miss my point. It is not about requirements for winning elections. It is about rethorical claptrap like "people has spoken" (implication: majority of them that voted) that is simply untrue, since majority of people that voted indeed spoken, but for exact opposite.

Let's take your "This is why Democrats and their policies were rejected Nationwide". This statement is, surprise surprise, false.

Democrats and their policies weren't rejected nationwide. Opposite happened: republicans and their policies were rejected (majority of people voted against them), yet they are in power despite that.


Quote from this article says it all:



Well, I guess it was known for long time already that USA is pseudodemocracy.



It should be obvious that future Fuhrer of murica is infallible and any mistake or failure will be fault of anyone and everyone else, starting first and foremost with that uppity n***a.
I'm sure the Democrats kept their seats in California and New York. The majority of the rest of the states, though less populous, chose Republicans.

That's how it works. The mandate is clear. Democrats have failed and the majority of the US states have assigned Trump and the Republicans to go forward and remove Obama's legacy because it was a failure. I know you don't like this fact, but it's a fact. The popular vote happened courtesy of California. Fortunately, one state does not lead the rest of the Country.

US manufacturing jobs are down to 9% of the work force. This was by design by Globalist politicians. I won't even point fingers anymore as you already know who pushed the agenda. Let's wait and see what happens under President Trump. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised. The rest of the World may likely be a bit shocked. Chris B.
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Old 9th January 2017, 11:31 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
We are the world's second largest manufacturer. We make more now than at any time in our history.
2nd largest................Probably the 9% work force has much to do with being 2nd. Maybe it's just me but I'm not happy being 2nd at anything. The reasons for being 2nd are what needs to be addressed.

Chris B.
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Old 9th January 2017, 11:51 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
You can maintain all you like but the facts run counter to your arguments.
  • U.S. manufacturing output is at an all time high - reductions in manpower are therefore due to efficiency savings, automation and product design
  • Wages are up significantly in real terms since NAFTA came into force in the early 1990s both for the economy as a whole and specifically for non-supervisory roles
  • Under Obama there has been a manufacturing boom with 1 million more people employed in manufacturing - in stark contrast to Bush where more than 30% of manufacting jobs were lost

The idea that, as a result of automation, a company would triple its workforce for no increase in output is difficult to believe. Perhaps it did happen but a company that incompetent should go out of business.
The robot at SKF did not replace anyone. It simply sized hubs to the required bearing size. This had been performed by the QC worker at the end of the line. After he installed the proper sized bearing in each hub, he inspected the hubs, boxed them up and placed a label on each box.

The robot made his job easier by installing the correct size bearing in each hub, but it could not inspect or box the hubs. So the QC guy still had his job. There was a robot program computer guy hired to program and monitor the robot during part# changeovers. There was a maintenance guy hired and trained to make repairs on it when it broke down.

So that's 3 guys one process, though technically you could say the QC guy may not count since he was already working there, but he certainly wasn't "replaced" so should count as part of the process.

Many say the jobs will not come back to the US. I've seen the type of economics Trump has planned for the US during the Reagan era. It certainly worked well before. So rather than embracing a defeatist attitude, I remain optimistic. Time will tell. Chris B.
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Old 10th January 2017, 12:47 AM   #221
The Don
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The robot at SKF did not replace anyone. It simply sized hubs to the required bearing size. This had been performed by the QC worker at the end of the line. After he installed the proper sized bearing in each hub, he inspected the hubs, boxed them up and placed a label on each box.

The robot made his job easier by installing the correct size bearing in each hub, but it could not inspect or box the hubs. So the QC guy still had his job. There was a robot program computer guy hired to program and monitor the robot during part# changeovers. There was a maintenance guy hired and trained to make repairs on it when it broke down.

So that's 3 guys one process, though technically you could say the QC guy may not count since he was already working there, but he certainly wasn't "replaced" so should count as part of the process.
Sounds like an incompetently run company them. All my experience of automation (either in manufacturing or in the service industry) has ended up with more work being done by fewer people

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Many say the jobs will not come back to the US. I've seen the type of economics Trump has planned for the US during the Reagan era. It certainly worked well before. So rather than embracing a defeatist attitude, I remain optimistic. Time will tell. Chris B.
Would that be the Reagan era in which the budget deficit rose,
http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/i...ronic-deficits

unemployment spiked to nearly 10%
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/78...rates-history/

and real wages for production and non-supervisory workers dropped significantly ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househ..._1964-2014.png



I'm not sure that the U.S. economy can withstand another "golden age" like that
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Old 10th January 2017, 12:54 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Sounds like an incompetently run company them. All my experience of automation (either in manufacturing or in the service industry) has ended up with more work being done by fewer people



Would that be the Reagan era in which the budget deficit rose,
http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/i...ronic-deficits

unemployment spiked to nearly 10%
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/78...rates-history/

and real wages for production and non-supervisory workers dropped significantly ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househ..._1964-2014.png



I'm not sure that the U.S. economy can withstand another "golden age" like that
Reaganomics worked great for KY. I can't speak for other states but we certainly had a powerful economy here as a result.

We'll see what happens. I don't expect Trump to end Communism in China like Reagan did with Russia. But I wouldn't be surprised. Chris B.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:06 AM   #223
The Don
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Reaganomics worked great for KY. I can't speak for other states but we certainly had a powerful economy here as a result..
Do you have any evidence to support your assertion other than your (possibly rose tinted) anecdotes ? The national picture shows that not only did Reaganomics not do great things, it was very damaging.

edited to add....

Here's a graph for the unemployment rate in Kentucky. When Reagan became president in January '81 it was around 8%, it peaked at 12% in '83 and was back at around 8% when G.H.W. Bush took over - not stellar:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/KYUR

Currently, at the end of of Obama's "disasterous" spell as President, it's under 5%.

In Kentucky, average wages dropped below their 1979 value in 1981 and didn't get back above that level until 1999

http://kypolicy.org/key-mechanism-gr...-still-broken/

I think perhaps your personal circumstances may have done well while Reagan was president (or not, you may be wearing rose-tinted spectacles) but the same is not true for Kentucky as a whole.

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Old 10th January 2017, 03:00 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Do you have any evidence to support your assertion other than your (possibly rose tinted) anecdotes ? The national picture shows that not only did Reaganomics not do great things, it was very damaging.

edited to add....

Here's a graph for the unemployment rate in Kentucky. When Reagan became president in January '81 it was around 8%, it peaked at 12% in '83 and was back at around 8% when G.H.W. Bush took over - not stellar:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/KYUR

Currently, at the end of of Obama's "disasterous" spell as President, it's under 5%.

In Kentucky, average wages dropped below their 1979 value in 1981 and didn't get back above that level until 1999

http://kypolicy.org/key-mechanism-gr...-still-broken/

I think perhaps your personal circumstances may have done well while Reagan was president (or not, you may be wearing rose-tinted spectacles) but the same is not true for Kentucky as a whole.
If you search the internet long enough you can find a graph to support any position. Not long ago there were graphs available that showed how much Hillary was going to win by.....but like many graphs, they were sort of designed for a bias purpose.

I judge by results. As the info included in any study can be presented in such a way as to reflect the writer's political bias. (Like the many over optimistic Clinton polls )

After Reagan was elected, KY went back to work. The wages were good and the work was plentiful. I expect to see more of the same. If loving Reaganomics is wrong, I don't wanna be right......
Chris B.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:11 AM   #225
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That's Trump's America. Not one he made but made his presidency possible. An America where people have given up on objective truth. There are no experts to be relied upon so everones personal opinion or choice of news source is just as biased. My common sense views of the world may as well trump anyone of those in the opposition political camp.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:19 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
That's Trump's America. Not one he made but made his presidency possible. An America where people have given up on objective truth. There are no experts to be relied upon so everones personal opinion or choice of news source is just as biased. My common sense views of the world may as well trump anyone of those in the opposition political camp.
Yep. Reality be damned, opinions rule. That much is obvious reading Chris' posts.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:23 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
That's Trump's America. Not one he made but made his presidency possible. An America where people have given up on objective truth. There are no experts to be relied upon so everones personal opinion or choice of news source is just as biased. My common sense views of the world may as well trump anyone of those in the opposition political camp.
How many of those Clinton poles will it take for you to question something? Are we learning yet?
Chris B.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:24 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Yep. Reality be damned, opinions rule. That much is obvious reading Chris' posts.
Keep defending those Clinton pole numbers......maybe she will win after all.
Chris B.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:25 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
How many of those Clinton poles will it take for you to question something? Are we learning yet?
Chris B.
We're learning that you aren't interested in learning.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:27 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Keep defending those Clinton pole numbers......maybe she will win after all.
Chris B.
Didn't see Clinton mentioned in my post. Maybe you could point it out for me?

Also, it's 'poll', not 'pole'.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:32 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
How many of those Clinton poles will it take for you to question something? Are we learning yet?
Chris B.
There are bound to be some very interesting things to be learnt about political polling in our current technological age, perhaps related to sampling. What is the lesson this lucrative industry has learnt? Something there for statisticians and students of the field I suspect. Is there something as interesting as the infamous 1936 polling failure, which has become a atudent case study in sampling failure.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:35 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
After Reagan was elected, KY went back to work. The wages were good and the work was plentiful. I expect to see more of the same. If loving Reaganomics is wrong, I don't wanna be right......
Chris B.
That's your opinion and impression but the facts don't seem to bear that out.

Under Reagan the unemployment rate in Kentucky went up 50% in the first couple of years (IMO not directly Reagan's fault, there was a recession on) before returning to their original levels by the end of his second term.

Real wages on the other hand dropped and stayed below their 1979 level until 1999.

Now it could be that your own personal circumstances were that your salary increased significantly in real terms (if you were at the start of your career it's not that surprising) and that perhaps the industry you were involved in did get a boost (IIRC, defence spending soared) but that wasn't typical for Kentucky - or for the nation as a whole.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:42 AM   #233
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The idea that a man of inherited wealth in the elite luxury accomodation bussiness, who selects a team out of the elite corporate world is "draining the swamp" is PT Barnumesque levels of BS selling.
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Old 10th January 2017, 07:00 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
The idea that a man of inherited wealth in the elite luxury accomodation bussiness, who selects a team out of the elite corporate world is "draining the swamp" is PT Barnumesque levels of BS selling.
This is a world where a guy on his third marriage, known adulterer who brags of groping women without their consent is considered to be a man sent by God, and a guy born with a silver spoon in his mouth who has never faced an ounce of uncertainty is said to understand the plight of "real Americans."

What do you expect?
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Old 10th January 2017, 08:07 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
That's how it works. The mandate is clear.* Democrats have failed and the majority of the US states have assigned Trump and the Republicans to go forward and remove Obama's legacy because it was a failure.** I know you don't like this fact, but it's a fact.*** The popular vote happened courtesy of California.**** Fortunately, one state does not lead the rest of the Country.
*No. There is no mandate. Of course, the Republicans will proclaim they have one in their never-ending efforts to bludgeon debate much less dissent regarding their self-serving policies.

**No. A reasonably strong economic recovery (including a forceful rescue of the domestic auto industry as well as significant stock market gains), millions of citizens able to enjoy the benefits and security of health insurance, the advancement of marriage equality (while a state-level achievement, the administration supported and celebrated the gains, unlike countless in the GOP who desire to remove the liberty), deportations cooking along, the almost entirely peaceful resolution of the Ruby Ridge standoff, the negotiations leading to the nuclear agreement with Iran... These (simplified, of course), just off the top of my head.

***No. That's your opinion. Opinions may coincide with facts, but they are separate animals.

****Is this the current hand wave meme? A voter in California is no less a voter than one in any other location. (The Electoral College system's uneven valuation of votes is a related matter but separate of the point you're attempting to sneak past the judges.)

Quote:
Let's wait and see what happens under President Trump.
Donald Trump? The thoroughly ignorant, arrogant, immoral, self-serving, criminal conman/huckster who's already giving everyone a wide-eyed glimpse into "happenings?" That guy you expect will deliver you to the promised land? Yeah, good luck with that.
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Old 10th January 2017, 12:52 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I'm sure the Democrats kept their seats in California and New York. The majority of the rest of the states, though less populous, chose Republicans.

That's how it works. The mandate is clear. Democrats have failed and the majority of the US states have assigned Trump and the Republicans to go forward and remove Obama's legacy because it was a failure. I know you don't like this fact, but it's a fact. The popular vote happened courtesy of California. Fortunately, one state does not lead the rest of the Country.

US manufacturing jobs are down to 9% of the work force. This was by design by Globalist politicians. I won't even point fingers anymore as you already know who pushed the agenda. Let's wait and see what happens under President Trump. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised. The rest of the World may likely be a bit shocked. Chris B.
Will Trump start manufacturing his 'Signature' Clothing line and home furnishing ranges in the USA?
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:21 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The robot at SKF did not replace anyone. It simply sized hubs to the required bearing size. This had been performed by the QC worker at the end of the line. After he installed the proper sized bearing in each hub, he inspected the hubs, boxed them up and placed a label on each box.

The robot made his job easier by installing the correct size bearing in each hub, but it could not inspect or box the hubs. So the QC guy still had his job. There was a robot program computer guy hired to program and monitor the robot during part# changeovers. There was a maintenance guy hired and trained to make repairs on it when it broke down.

So that's 3 guys one process, though technically you could say the QC guy may not count since he was already working there, but he certainly wasn't "replaced" so should count as part of the process.

Many say the jobs will not come back to the US. I've seen the type of economics Trump has planned for the US during the Reagan era. It certainly worked well before. So rather than embracing a defeatist attitude, I remain optimistic. Time will tell. Chris B.
One of my customers used to be a manufacturer near Manchester that makes all the 5th wheel couplings for HGV manufacturers in Europe, they supplied several.
They used to have a welding shop staffed by about twenty welders per shift. Now they employ one welder per shift in case any welds fail inspection and all the welding work is done by robots.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:24 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
How many of those Clinton poles will it take for you to question something? Are we learning yet?
Chris B.
Past employment and prosperity figures aren't opinions, they are a matter of fact.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:25 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Past employment and prosperity figures aren't opinions, they are a matter of fact.
You haven't gotten the memo? Facts are all a matter of opinion nowadays.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:59 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
... Of course in general I'm sure some jobs are lost to automation. It depends on the type of work being automated.

I still maintain the decline of manufacturing jobs down to 9% of the work force was due to factory closures and relocations much more than the shift to automation. Lost factories also equals lost jobs. Chris B.
When running EMEA, I had our country sales leaders look at revenues and corporate profits per capita, and total company employment, then cross-index business databases for sales opportunity. The top employers at the time were in banking and automotive manufacturing, of which the second is germane to discussion. That is, in very many countries, manufacturing jobs were dominated by various component enterprises serving the automotive industry, and, of course, the main manufacturers. Have you been in an automotive or part manufacturing facility recently? The change in this industry alone is significant, and no amount of bringing those factories back will bring back 1980's Reagan levels of employment in the industry.

This leaves us the post-industrial IT revolution, and given your certainty, I'd like to hear about your views as to trends in IT itself with respect to automation.... If that seems a wash, we might try the so-called green industries (energy) as vehicles for future manufacturing growth, especially since the old fossil fuel extraction industries are not driving a great deal of new employment. How are Republican policies with regards to the energy industry, and how might they return growth in jobs in a sustainable, non-suicidal fashion?

I think I'll rest my case with respect to automation.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
... After Reagan was elected, KY went back to work. The wages were good and the work was plentiful. I expect to see more of the same. If loving Reaganomics is wrong, I don't wanna be right......
Chris B.
"A stranger showed up in town. The next day, a girl was raped. We killed the stranger." I hope this is not your logic. There are reasons for how the economy behaved which may have been thanks to, in spite of, or irrespective of Reagan.

Three factors to consider: (1) business cycles, the fight against the (2) stagflation that resulted from excess aggregate demand in the form of domestic military spending (Vietnam) and a weak economy otherwise, plus the 1973 oil shock, and (3) banking and other deregulation.

Before going on, since you claim Reaganomics was a success, please now explain to me how stagflation was ultimately defeated, by whom, and who was appointed by whom. We then might discuss how the extreme measure affected political discourse. Further, specifically, what was the immediate outcome of the 1980s savings and loan deregulation, and then what happened? What has the long-term impact of supply side economics been, in terms of budget deficits?

As for management substance vs style, on the substance front we have 185 officials indicted under the Reagan administration, and the sale of weapons to Iran, diverting them from Nicaragua, in exchange for continuing to hold Americans hostage until after the election. Precursor and precedent, of course, for Trump's flirtation with yet another enemy to influence an election. There is a pattern here, and were I to adopt the GOP style manual, I'd be shouting something typically hyperbolic and nasty involving ropes.
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