ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags abortion issues , abortion laws , Kentucky issues , Kentucky laws , Kentucky politics

Reply
Old 8th January 2017, 03:38 AM   #1
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
Abortion bill pass in Kentucky

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/08/us/ken...ass/index.html

Basically no abortion (unless life in danger) past 20 weeks, and forcing an examination to make the woman hear the heartbeat and see the embryo (although the law note the woman can "advert her eye" and ask the heartbeat sound to be muted).

Deplorable emotional manipulation on the side of lawmaker. They start in high gear. This is the type of law which is 100% about enforcing their own religious view onto other people and has zero other practical purpose.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 04:55 AM   #2
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,066
Maybe we should let the red states be red states and ban abortion. Do their thing. Have their own minimum wage and such. Then we should have the feds stop taking money from the blue states while giving to the red states.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 05:30 AM   #3
Reheat
Illuminator
 
Reheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In Space
Posts: 3,493
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Maybe we should let the red states be red states and ban abortion. Do their thing. Have their own minimum wage and such. Then we should have the feds stop taking money from the blue states while giving to the red states.
Hay, that's an excellent idea. While we're at it maybe the red states should stop the distribution of food to the blue states and also cut off the flow of oil and gas. Does that sound like a good exchange to you?

This is not strictly a religious issue it is a moral one, as well. The US was founded on Judea Christian principles and most of the Country still adheres to those principles. Some say either like it or leave, but that would not be nice to say here at all. States have the power and authority to do what they just did. End of story...
__________________
[Noc]

Last edited by Reheat; 8th January 2017 at 05:37 AM.
Reheat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 05:31 AM   #4
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,130
Why 20 weeks? What's the rationale? I'd think viability (26 or 27 weeks) would be a nice cutoff point.

Quote:
forcing an examination to make the woman hear the heartbeat and see the embryo
What a weird way to craft a law. Try to con the woman by manipulating her feelings in a moment of weakness, basically.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 05:47 AM   #5
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Why 20 weeks? What's the rationale? I'd think viability (26 or 27 weeks) would be a nice cutoff point.
And I'm curious as to how they know a fetus is 20 weeks and not, say, 20 weeks and three days. Is there some established scientific method? Presumably, the woman could lie about when her last period was, or when she did the nasty.

If you are going to prosecute someone based on some data point, the accuracy of that number would matter a great deal.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 05:47 AM   #6
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Hay, that's an excellent idea. While we're at it maybe the red states should stop the distribution of food to the blue states and also cut off the flow of oil and gas. Does that sound like a good exchange to you?

This is not strictly a religious issue it is a moral one, as well. The US was founded on Judea Christian principles and most of the Country still adheres to those principles. Some say either like it or leave, but that would not be nice to say here at all. States have the power and authority to do what they just did. End of story...
They do not distribute food. they sell it. And as in the western world we produce too much, it isn't as much a threat as you think it is. As for oil... Again I doubt it is given freely, but rather sold : it is private company which exploit it.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 05:48 AM   #7
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Why 20 weeks? What's the rationale? I'd think viability (26 or 27 weeks) would be a nice cutoff point.



What a weird way to craft a law. Try to con the woman by manipulating her feelings in a moment of weakness, basically.
The law has no other rational than manipulate women emotionally, and try force reduce abortion by leaving less time to react. That's it.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 06:01 AM   #8
Reheat
Illuminator
 
Reheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In Space
Posts: 3,493
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
They do not distribute food. they sell it. And as in the western world we produce too much, it isn't as much a threat as you think it is. As for oil... Again I doubt it is given freely, but rather sold : it is private company which exploit it.
The word distribute does not mean strictly that no one pays for the product. It has multiple definitions. Look it up and you'll see. All of that is very easily regulated anyway by a Republican controlled Congress and the over whelming majority of Republican Governors and Legislatures. Obviously it was hyperbole as were the original comments by Mr. Hyperbole himself. Don't worry, I was only countering hyperbole with hyperbole.
__________________
[Noc]

Last edited by Reheat; 8th January 2017 at 06:10 AM.
Reheat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 06:04 AM   #9
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
Here is the text of the bill (as of 1-6-2017): http://www.lrc.ky.gov/recorddocument...S/SB5/bill.pdf

They make much of the probable age of the fetus. As far as I can tell, there's a few weeks wiggle room.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 06:35 AM   #10
C_Felix
Master Poster
 
C_Felix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Just outside Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,447
We need more of this:

Women Fight Back: Ohio Bill Makes Erectile Dysfunction Her Business

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/06/...-business.html
__________________
Eqinsu Ocha!
Eqinsu Ocha!
C_Felix is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 09:02 AM   #11
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,500
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Hay, that's an excellent idea.
Well, it is what the red states have been telling us they want for 30 years.

Quote:
While we're at it maybe the red states should stop the distribution of food to the blue states and also cut off the flow of oil and gas. Does that sound like a good exchange to you?
Sell, you sell those. But hey, if you wan to cut even more revenue from the Reich...er Red States, thats on you. States like New York and California have their own agricultural industries and I'm sure Canada and Mexico will be happy to sell more goods here.

Of course, the difference here is, no one in NY or CA has claimed to never need things like food. Red Staters are constantly going on about the don't need the government and that welfare needs to get cut etc etc Why are you reacting negatively to getting what you want?

Quote:
This is not strictly a religious issue it is a moral one, as well. The US was founded on Judea Christian principles and most of the Country still adheres to those principles.
So, its not religious, but is founded on religions?

And the US is in no way Christian. We're pro war, worship material wealth and condemn our vulnerable to die.

Besides, guys like Jefferson and Madison disagree with you.

Quote:
Some say either like it or leave, but that would not be nice to say here at all. States have the power and authority to do what they just did. End of story...
Well, there is the Supremacy Clause. We'll see how that works out. Seems the GOP is suddenly real enthusiastic about it.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 09:07 AM   #12
Fast Eddie B
Illuminator
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 4,487
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
This is the type of law which is 100% about enforcing their own religious view onto other people...
Very often the case, but I argue with the 100%.

An atheist can embrace a philosophy or world view that places value on the unborn, to the point of legislating reasonable restrictions on abortion, without invoking religion.

I am an atheist and a data point of one, but I doubt that I'm alone.
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 8th January 2017 at 09:08 AM.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 09:49 AM   #13
surrogate
Critical Thinker
 
surrogate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Somewhere within the Orion Arm
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Hay, that's an excellent idea. While we're at it maybe the red states should stop the distribution of food to the blue states and also cut off the flow of oil and gas. Does that sound like a good exchange to you?
Sounds great, and blue states can stop the distribution of CPUs/GPUs as well as smartphones to red states.
surrogate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 11:34 AM   #14
Reheat
Illuminator
 
Reheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In Space
Posts: 3,493
Originally Posted by surrogate View Post
Sounds great, and blue states can stop the distribution of CPUs/GPUs as well as smartphones to red states.
Hehehe. Do you really think that's a necessary commodity? Keep 'em and see what you gain in return.
__________________
[Noc]
Reheat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 11:44 AM   #15
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 20,901
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 11:54 AM   #16
fuelair
Cythraul Enfys
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 54,907
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/08/us/ken...ass/index.html

Basically no abortion (unless life in danger) past 20 weeks, and forcing an examination to make the woman hear the heartbeat and see the embryo (although the law note the woman can "advert her eye" and ask the heartbeat sound to be muted).

Deplorable emotional manipulation on the side of lawmaker. They start in high gear. This is the type of law which is 100% about enforcing their own religious view onto other people and has zero other practical purpose.
I believe snake *********** ******* sucking slime covers them and their ignorant and foul beliefs.
__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

Wash this space!

We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!
fuelair is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 12:14 PM   #17
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 3,991
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Hehehe. Do you really think that's a necessary commodity? Keep 'em and see what you gain in return.
Are you? Are you serious? You deny technology that much? You have absolutely no idea what the effect of not acquiring advances in technology would do to those states.
__________________
"All acts performed in the world begin in the imagination."--Barbara Grizzuti Harrison

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 12:18 PM   #18
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 21,446
Maybe instead of thinking up tit for tat like petulant kids we should all grow up and act like rational civil adults in the 21'st cent....oh wait, never mind.
__________________
Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding. (Samuel Johnson)

I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 01:09 PM   #19
Delphic Oracle
Graduate Poster
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
This is not strictly a religious issue it is a moral one, as well.
Yes, the moral issue is the state imposing medically unnecessary procedures on a patient and restricting their choices in how to proceed with their own reproductive health.

Quote:
The US was founded on Judea Christian principles
Funny, then, that the origin document contains proscriptions against imposing religious ideology on the entire nation (or any political subdivision thereof) through legislation.

Quote:
and most of the Country still adheres to those principles.
Argumentum ad populum. We also have 'principles' like the majority cannot restrict the rights of others simply by virtue of being the majority.

Quote:
Some say either like it or leave, but that would not be nice to say here at all.
It would also be another example of completely misrepresenting some of our 'principles', like the fact that one is free to have and espouse their own opinions and need not flee the country for doing so.

Quote:
States have the power and authority to do what they just did. End of story...
No, states do not have the power or authority to violate a citizen's rights.

Please enroll yourself in a civics course at your local community college before embarrassing yourself further.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 8th January 2017 at 01:10 PM.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 01:15 PM   #20
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 43,848
As far as "like it or leave it" goes, abortion is currently legal, so the people who don't like that are the ones who should leave. I'm sure there are plenty of First World nations that outlaw abortions, they could move to some of those.
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 01:28 PM   #21
Reheat
Illuminator
 
Reheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In Space
Posts: 3,493
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Please enroll yourself in a civics course at your local community college before embarrassing yourself further.
Take your own advice. Since when is a fetus the sole property of a woman? I don't know of a woman since the virgin Mary who reputedly conceived a child without a dick with sperm involved. Who's rights are involved here? Why do you elevate a woman's right over man who caused that woman to conceive?

Do you see the problem here? The promiscuous nature of the current attitude toward morality is what has caused this to be a problem in the first place. That is what's wrong. It is not a question of women's exclusive right at all except in the case of rape. Seek a guide your own morality before lecturing me on women's rights.
__________________
[Noc]

Last edited by Reheat; 8th January 2017 at 01:33 PM.
Reheat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 02:02 PM   #22
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,270
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Take your own advice. Since when is a fetus the sole property of a woman? I don't know of a woman since the virgin Mary who reputedly conceived a child without a dick with sperm involved. Who's rights are involved here? Why do you elevate a woman's right over man who caused that woman to conceive?
Oh, I dunno, maybe the fact that she has to carry said fetus for several hard months while he can go and do whatever he wants uninhibited after dumping some genetic material into her body.

I'm not impressed with the effort a man has to put into a making a zygote to consider them to have any rights.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 02:12 PM   #23
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,653
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Take your own advice. Since when is a fetus the sole property of a woman? I don't know of a woman since the virgin Mary who reputedly conceived a child without a dick with sperm involved. Who's rights are involved here? Why do you elevate a woman's right over man who caused that woman to conceive?

Do you see the problem here? The promiscuous nature of the current attitude toward morality is what has caused this to be a problem in the first place. That is what's wrong. It is not a question of women's exclusive right at all except in the case of rape. Seek a guide your own morality before lecturing me on women's rights.
If a man impregnates a woman, and they both agree on an abortion, would you concede their right to make that decision?
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

Last edited by turingtest; 8th January 2017 at 03:26 PM. Reason: clarify what I'm asking
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 02:15 PM   #24
mikado
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,441
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
As far as "like it or leave it" goes, abortion is currently legal, so the people who don't like that are the ones who should leave. I'm sure there are plenty of First World nations that outlaw abortions, they could move to some of those.
apart from Ireland and Italy? not sure I can think of any as backwards as the u.s.
Women struggled too hard and too long to give up our rights.
__________________
member formally known as Renmarkable.
mikado is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 02:26 PM   #25
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,126
Originally Posted by mikado View Post
apart from Ireland and Italy? not sure I can think of any as backwards as the u.s.
Women struggled too hard and too long to give up our rights.
Actually Ireland's current abortion restrictions are less restrictive than those proposed. And due for further liberalisation.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 02:56 PM   #26
Peter i
Critical Thinker
 
Peter i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denmark
Posts: 334
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
As far as "like it or leave it" goes, abortion is currently legal, so the people who don't like that are the ones who should leave. I'm sure there are plenty of First World nations that outlaw abortions, they could move to some of those.

They could, or they could take a trip to a private hospital somewhere that allows abortion.

If they have the money, that is.
What a law like this really does, is to keep the poor in their place. Stop them from getting an education and make sure they have lots of children, that will stay poor too.

Badly timed pregnancy is one of the major ways to screw up the chances of social mobility.

The top of society will have no problems anyway.

Rich white men deciding what poor coloured women should do with their bodies.


I shouldn't worry. I live in a country with free abortion and universal health care.
And the funny thing is, that we have a lower abortion rate and a lower rate of teenage pregnancies.
The answer probably lies in both education and real sex ed in school.

Last edited by Peter i; 8th January 2017 at 03:03 PM.
Peter i is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 03:03 PM   #27
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
Originally Posted by Peter i View Post
They could, or they could take a trip to a private hospital somewhere that allows abortion.

If they have the money, that is.
What a law like this really does, is to keep the poor in their place. Stop them from getting an education and make sure they have lots of children, that will stay poor too.

Badly timed pregnancy is one of the major ways to screw up the chances of social mobility.

The top of society will have no problems anyway.

Rich white men deciding what poor coloured women should do with their bodies.
Why do they want to do these things? I'm genuinely curious to know.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 03:12 PM   #28
Modified
Philosopher
 
Modified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,401
Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Why do they want to do these things? I'm genuinely curious to know.
I would guess they want their own ideas of morality incorporated into the law, regardless of the consequences. You see the same arguments against drug legalization, for those that admit or accept the possibility that it would reduce crime and drug use: "Yes, but we can't make it legal because it's wrong."
Modified is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 05:23 PM   #29
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 15,966
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Hay, that's an excellent idea. While we're at it maybe the red states should stop the distribution of food to the blue states and also cut off the flow of oil and gas. Does that sound like a good exchange to you?
I love it when the Ring Wingers throw in false equivalency to try and win points. Lets compare shall we?

When the Federal Government takes money from the Blue States and gives it to the Red ones, the Red States have more money and the Blue less, while getting nothing back in return. They have no choice in what to do with that money. When Blue States buy goods from the Red States, they do have a choice. If the Red States stopped selling good to the Blue States, the Blue States could use the money they aren't spending in the Red States to buy those goods from other sources. The Blue States don't need to buy food and oil and gas from the Red States, there are plenty of Food Producers and Oil and Gas producers that will happily supply those markets.

So basically, yeah, for the Blue States it'd be great. They'd no longer have to subsidize the Red States, and they'd still get what they needed from other sources, possibly cheaper since they could do away with protectionist trade tariffs that do nothing but protect the US Farmer from cheaper overseas competition. This means they'd be better off economically.

You know what, I wouldn't mention it too loud, they might take you up on it.


Quote:
This is not strictly a religious issue it is a moral one, as well. The US was founded on Judea Christian principles and most of the Country still adheres to those principles.
Way to contradict yourself. And btw, you're wrong, the US was not founded on Judea Christian principles, but nice try.

If, by the question, one is asking whether the Founding Fathers relied on Protestant Christian principles in drafting the essential documents and in organizing the new governments, then the answer is a resounding "no."

The writings of the period (1765-1790), including speeches, debates, letters, pamphlets, and even sermons, reflect the overwhelming influence of Enlightenment, Whig, and classical republican theories.

The political events of the period also support the conclusion that the founders intended to institute a secular-based form of governance.


http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/02/li...istian-nation/

Quote:
Some say either like it or leave, but that would not be nice to say here at all. States have the power and authority to do what they just did. End of story...
I guess when the back lash occurs and liberals take the reins you'll be just as supportive, right?
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
My Apollo Page.

Last edited by PhantomWolf; 8th January 2017 at 05:27 PM.
PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 05:25 PM   #30
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 15,966
Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Why do they want to do these things? I'm genuinely curious to know.
As Trump says, they love the poor and uneducated, cause for some crazy reason, they seem to keep voting Republican.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
My Apollo Page.
PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 07:11 PM   #31
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
Originally Posted by Modified View Post
I would guess they want their own ideas of morality incorporated into the law, regardless of the consequences. You see the same arguments against drug legalization, for those that admit or accept the possibility that it would reduce crime and drug use: "Yes, but we can't make it legal because it's wrong."
That makes more sense. It sounded like these were the objectives of the policy instead of the unavoidable consequences: "What a law like this really does, is to keep the poor in their place. Stop them from getting an education and make sure they have lots of children, that will stay poor too."
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 07:17 PM   #32
Delphic Oracle
Graduate Poster
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Take your own advice. Since when is a fetus the sole property of a woman? I don't know of a woman since the virgin Mary who reputedly conceived a child without a dick with sperm involved. Who's rights are involved here? Why do you elevate a woman's right over man who caused that woman to conceive?
As was articulated in another reply to this, nature has imposed on women the bulk of the burdens of reproductive responsibility. Get back to me once that disparity has been rectified and not until.

Quote:
Do you see the problem here? The promiscuous nature of the current attitude toward morality is what has caused this to be a problem in the first place. That is what's wrong. It is not a question of women's exclusive right at all except in the case of rape. Seek a guide your own morality before lecturing me on women's rights.
That's a mouthful. Too bad there's not a lick of substance to it.

Now I find it interesting that you acknowledge I can have my 'own morality', yet also assert morality is an objective standard that your entire argument rests upon.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 07:25 PM   #33
Reheat
Illuminator
 
Reheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In Space
Posts: 3,493
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
And btw, you're wrong, the US was not founded on Judea Christian principles, but nice try.
Nice try there, indeed. After reading your prose I asked myself. "Hey, maybe he's right." Then I took a dollar bill out of my wallet and examined it closely. After that I began to recall the Pledge of Allegiance and recited the words.

After doing all of that I concluded that what you wrote is just more Full of **** stuff from a Kiwi who doesn't know what he's talking about.
__________________
[Noc]
Reheat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 07:30 PM   #34
Fast Eddie B
Illuminator
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 4,487
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
After that I began to recall the Pledge of Allegiance and recited the words.
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 07:34 PM   #35
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 43,848
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Nice try there, indeed. After reading your prose I asked myself. "Hey, maybe he's right." Then I took a dollar bill out of my wallet
The phrase was added to bills in 1957.
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 07:46 PM   #36
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,270
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Nice try there, indeed. After reading your prose I asked myself. "Hey, maybe he's right." Then I took a dollar bill out of my wallet and examined it closely. After that I began to recall the Pledge of Allegiance and recited the words.

After doing all of that I concluded that what you wrote is just more Full of **** stuff from a Kiwi who doesn't know what he's talking about.
Did an eagle fly into the room, land on the flagpole and shed a single tear?
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 07:49 PM   #37
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 15,966
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Nice try there, indeed. After reading your prose I asked myself. "Hey, maybe he's right." Then I took a dollar bill out of my wallet and examined it closely. After that I began to recall the Pledge of Allegiance and recited the words.

After doing all of that I concluded that what you wrote is just more Full of **** stuff from a Kiwi who doesn't know what he's talking about.
You know, it's kinda sad when a "Kiwi who doesn't know what he's talking about" apparently does know more about the founding of you country than you do.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
My Apollo Page.
PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 07:54 PM   #38
Reheat
Illuminator
 
Reheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In Space
Posts: 3,493
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You know, it's kinda sad when a "Kiwi who doesn't know what he's talking about" apparently does know more about the founding of you country than you do.
Obviously not...
__________________
[Noc]
Reheat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 08:11 PM   #39
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 15,966
Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
Obviously not...
The US was founded in 1954? or 1957?
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
My Apollo Page.
PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2017, 08:34 PM   #40
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,669
Aren't these the same people who oppose requiring people to buy health insurance?

And yet they think its ok to require women to get an ultra sound and listen to a fetal heartbeat?
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:21 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.