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#81 |
Master Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,428
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Un-american Jack-booted thug Graduate of a liberal arts college! Faster play faster faster play faster |
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#82 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,198
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#83 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,198
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#84 |
Evil Fokker
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,477
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www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun! Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013. |
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#85 |
Cythraul Enfys
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 57,063
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There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!! |
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#86 |
Cythraul Enfys
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 57,063
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There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!! |
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#87 |
Cythraul Enfys
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 57,063
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If the male/mate is trying to prevent her, a swift kick in the testes is my immediate go to option. And I do love children....and thus only want them born to one or more loving parents who have the ability to care for them and nurture them properly.
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There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!! |
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#88 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denmark
Posts: 334
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So am I!
You would think, that a general improvement in public health, better education, not constantly making an effort to keep the poor as poor as possible would be a priority for any decent person? But when you look at the US as an outsider (I have lived in the US too), it honestly looks like it is a well defined political agenda, to keep as many people as possible both dumb and poor. Not so long ago the US was in the forefront of developed nations with regards to science, education, health, innovation and such. The rest of the world basically adored the US. And then they lost it. Somehow the people who would have a real benefit from real health and education reforms were convinced, that they should vote for the people least likely to do that. And now they have elected an orange buffoon for president. The very type of person who has ********** up their lives, health and economy. I really wonder why! |
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#89 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
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#90 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,101
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Because viability is limited by current medical technology and has nothing to do with whether that unborn child has a right to live.
In my opinion it does. 20 weeks I am sure is a frame that picked that they hoped would pass. You call it conning a woman I call it trying to save a life. |
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#91 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
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#92 |
King of the Pod People
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,385
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#93 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 479
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I just read the recent news on this. Seems the only way to change the current constitutional ban to allow any exemption, other than the life of the mother, is by a popular referendum, the same way the ban was voted in. Is there not another way Ireland can decide human rights than the vote of the people?
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#94 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,655
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My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. |
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#95 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 389
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Slight derail from this train wreck of a thread, but this is a personal pet peeve of mine. One, obviously, there is no Christian principle that says that slaves were worth only 3/5s of a free person. Two, not all blacks were slaves and not all whites were free. There were a number of free blacks that fought with some of the founders to end slavery, just as there were plenty of white people that were sold into slavery or indentured servitude. And three, you do realize that the 3/5s rule was a compromise that only applied to Congressional apportionment? The pro-slavery states would have been loved to count their slaves as full people. They would have been thrilled to count their slaves as five people each, since it would have massively increased their power in Congress and made it that much harder to end slavery. It was the anti-slavery founders that made the quite obvious point that you can't claim that slaves aren't people but property in one breath, then claim that for the purposes of Congressional power that slaves should count as full people with all the rights of people with the next breath. /derail |
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#96 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,591
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I suppose you could argue that a Constitution that fails to mention specifically any certain religion to be the work of secular men but, you'd be wrong. While creating their ideas for a perfect Government, freedom of religion was by far one of the most important parts of the document. Creating a document that respects all forms of religion was the idea. Secularism would have had no mention of religion whatsoever. Even the date on the document hints to the founder's Christian principles, "In the Year of Our Lord"........
Pasted from: http://www.heritage.org/research/lec...stian-founding "Even though Christianity is not mentioned in the Constitution or Bill or Rights, the Founders of the American republic were influenced by Christian ideas in significant ways. For example: Their faith taught them that humans were sinful. As James Madison wrote in Federalist No. 51, “If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external or internal controls on government would be necessary.” This conviction led them to avoid utopian experiments such as those later pursued during the French Revolution and to adopt a constitutional system characterized by separated powers, checks and balances, and federalism. Many Enlightenment thinkers in this era, by way of contrast, tended to favor a strong, centralized government run by experts.[24] They firmly believed that God ordained moral standards, that legislation should be made in accordance with these standards, and that moral laws took precedence over human laws. This conviction manifests itself in their abstract reflections (e.g., James Wilson’s law lectures, parts of which read like St. Thomas Aquinas’s Summa Theologica) and practical decisions (e.g., all but one Supreme Court Justice prior to John Marshall argued publicly that the Court could strike down an act of Congress if it violated natural law).[25] Similarly, Christianity informed the Founders’ understanding of substantive concepts such as “liberty.” Barry Shain has identified eight different ways in which the word was used in the 18th century. Only one of these is related to the excessively individualistic way the term is often used today. Instead, the Founders were far more likely to see liberty as the freedom to do what is morally correct, as illustrated by United States Supreme Court Justice James Wilson’s marvelous dictum: “Without liberty, law loses its nature and its name, and becomes oppression. Without law, liberty also loses its nature and its name, and becomes licentiousness.”[26] America’s Founders believed that humans were created in the imago dei—the image of God. Part of what this means is that humans are reasonable beings. This led them to conclude that we the people (as opposed to the elite) can order our public lives together through politics rather than force. It also helped inform early (and later) American opposition to slavery.[27]" Chris B. |
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One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B. |
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#97 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,591
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Interesting how you would happen to have a pre 1957 $5 bill handy from the cash drawer. A bill prior to the mandate requiring all US bills be printed with the motto "In God We Trust". Of course most US coins already had the motto "In God We Trust" prior to 1957 though.............Since 1832? or so?
I suppose you are trying to suggest our National motto is not "In God We Trust"........That is our National motto though. Feel free to check. Chris B. |
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One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B. Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 10th January 2017 at 12:44 AM. Reason: edited quote to remove images to save bandwidth |
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#98 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 22,352
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I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) |
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#99 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,591
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One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B. |
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#100 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,099
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#101 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
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#102 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,825
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All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine |
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#103 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,591
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Nope, the motto "In God We Trust" has nothing to do with the founding as it was added later.
My views on why the US was founded on Christian principles are outlined above. "In God We Trust" does say something about the US though. Even the US Supreme Court has decided that the US recognizes that our "institutions presuppose a Supreme Being".........How's that to debunk a secular claim? Chris B. |
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One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B. |
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#104 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,591
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__________________
One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B. |
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#105 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
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#106 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,825
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__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine |
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#107 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,401
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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#108 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
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#109 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,825
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All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine |
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#110 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,073
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Nothing says small government like taking choice and control from a woman and her doctor and giving it to the Government instead
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"May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq |
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#111 |
King of the Pod People
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,385
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#112 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,825
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All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine |
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#113 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
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#115 |
Rotten to the Core
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 17,941
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All You Need Is Love. |
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#116 |
![]() Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 44,753
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YHWH is just the phrase "I am who am", which is the only answer the deity returned to the question "who are you?" in the Old Testament. Cagey fellow (or lady), God refuses to divulge its actual name. Theology types imagine it's because the name of God could be used for performing magic and miracles. Personally, I think it's because God wrote some bad checks and is trying to avoid unwanted attention. Either that or God's real name is really embarrassing, like Gaylord or Trevor or Wayne or Kristal or Tiffani.
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One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin. |
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#117 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,825
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All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine |
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#118 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
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Master of the Shining Darkness ![]() ![]() |
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#119 |
![]() Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 44,753
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It all works out because the same people who interpret the Constitution to mean whatever they want it to mean, ignoring all the bits that contradict their interpretation, also do the same with the Bible. Those people have enormous respect for documents, it's one of the ways you can tell they're so moral, they tell us.
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One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin. |
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#120 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
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Yes, but that's because abotion laws have nothing to do with the right to live. They have everything to do with the right to choose.
And viability is a very important step: it means that the foetus is no longer strictly part of the mother's biological system. It is now an independant human life. I would think this would satisfy your need for a justification to give it the "right" to live. |
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