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Old 8th April 2019, 10:52 AM   #161
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
Hey ponderingturtle,

The thing is many people do hear something else in Trump’s rhetoric and policies. To many Trump supporter’s “Make America Great Again” sounds like opening steel mills and bringing back good paying manufacturing jobs.
And of course gay people being far to afraid to be seen holding hands in public. That really seems to be the important parts that they are working on effectively. And why would the Billionares who are the ones winning out for the past 40 years of growth in their income relative to growth in productivity compared to average people be the ones to stop such a thing? They are winning after all.
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Old 8th April 2019, 10:56 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
I do not understand what this has to do with the post from Joemourge that you had originally quoted. Could you elaborate on this?
Taking kids from immigrants. While a violation of the law(sometimes of course they didn't wait for the cases to be heard) it is not a crime to say overstay a visa. But taking the kids away permanently has been a popular republican policy. Legally it is rather like taking someones kids away for a speeding ticket. This is popular as long as it targets the right color kids.

A majority of republicans like this. And I mean they are doing the important thing of monitoring the cycles of the girls so that if they are raped they have to carry the pregnancy to term but keeping track of what happened to kids you took from their parents is too much work for them. This is exactly how they want the government to work.
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Old 8th April 2019, 08:46 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Nationalist:
"a person who strongly identifies with their own nation and vigorously supports its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations."

Reporter: "President Trump, are you a nationalist?"
Trump: "Absolutely!"
Reporter: "You are White aren't you?"
Trump: "Why obviously yes of course."
Reporter then writes story about how Trump admits to being White Nationalist in support of White Supremacists.
That may have happened and, if it did, it was poor reporting. Generally, those suggesting that he's a white nationalist are doing so based on what he actually says and does and the kind of things other white nationalists have done in the past.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I don't think his statements were race motivated at all. Not all of the white supremacy haters like Trump, he's too friendly with Israel, has a Jewish son-in-law and grandchild and he bashes White supremacists publicly. However, even if they support him for President it makes no difference, just as the same far left elements that support Democrats, both their numbers are too small to tip the scale in either direction. I'm not uncomfortable at all to cast my vote again for Trump. In fact I'll likely be first in line on election day.
You're probably right that there are some at the very extremes and some who want the focus on Jews for whom he's not doing enough. And fair enough, you're not responsible for who else supports the politicians you do. However, the danger of appealing to the racist vote, is the need to pander to them in policy (and I'm not talking about just the extremes and I think across the US, the numbers make it worth him appealing to and encouraging racism).


Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
We seem to still have a Military presence deployed around the World. At last check ISIS was down for the count and those guys are supposedly radical Muslims.

Perhaps when we have plane loads of Baptists crashing planes into buildings and declaring war on the US, the emphasis might shift.
But ISIS or Al Qaeda are not anywhere like representative of Islam as a whole, just as "Christians" shooting up synagogues, mosques and clinics aren't representative of Christianity. I assume you would consider it an extreme overreaction if we were to make a law to remove all guns from US Christians because of the actions of a few?

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I see our Country's prior lack of action on immigration reform as disgusting. It's about time someone took a stand to correct the border security issues and slow down illegal immigration. I had hoped that Obama would, but he did not.

It appears that Trump is doing something to secure the border. He also needs to do something about immigration and giving these folks that are already here a path to citizenship. I don't expect him to finish but I do expect him to start the task. Democrats will fight tooth and nail to keep him from accomplishing anything regarding immigration reform. They stand to lose too many votes if the other party fixes the immigration issues they wouldn't. Personally I think we ought to all say to hell with politics and focus on being humanitarians for just long enough to solve the problem. Pointing fingers at the one person that is attempting to do so does not fit the bill.

Chris B.
I'm not sure quite what you would have in mind for immigration reform, but the Obama administration was trying to walk the line between tough and humanitarian and not without some success.

But a path to citizenship and non-partisan humanitarian action? - I'm standing right with you on that, brother. Have to be honest though, I'm absolutely baffled as to why you think we might be able to expect that under Trump.
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Old 10th April 2019, 10:38 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
The source on Twitter that Trump got his claim that 80% of white murder victims are killed by blacks. Also a major white supremacist/nazi follower.

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/tr...crime-graphic/
"Trump: Hey, Bill, Bill, am I gonna check every statistic? I get millions and millions of people, @RealDonaldTrump, by the way.

O’Reilly: You gotta, you’re a presidential contender, you gotta check ‘em.

Trump: I have millions of people … You know what? Fine. But this came out of radio shows and everything else.

O’Reilly: Oh, come on, radio shows?!

Trump: All it was is a retweet. And it wasn’t from me. It came out of a radio show, and other places.

O’Reilly: Look, you know I’m looking out for you, right? … Don’t do this. Don’t put your name on stuff like this, because it makes the other side, it gives them stuff to tell the ill-informed voter that you’re a racist. I mean, you just handed them a platter.

Trump: Well, this was a retweet. Bill, I’m sure you’re looking out for me, everybody is. This was a retweet. And it comes from sources that are very credible, what can I tell you."



I get it pointing out how often Trump cites nazi sources as his sources for information are just off-putting and will be ignored by your friend and truly doesn't matter.

Thanks ponderingturtle for answering my question. I still don't see how it has anything to do with the points I have made or questions I have had for you, but you did finally respond to one of my questions directly.
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Old 10th April 2019, 10:39 AM   #165
Tormac
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And of course gay people being far to afraid to be seen holding hands in public. That really seems to be the important parts that they are working on effectively. And why would the Billionares who are the ones winning out for the past 40 years of growth in their income relative to growth in productivity compared to average people be the ones to stop such a thing? They are winning after all.
What in the world does this have to do with the post of mine that you have quoted?
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Old 10th April 2019, 10:43 AM   #166
Tormac
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Taking kids from immigrants. While a violation of the law(sometimes of course they didn't wait for the cases to be heard) it is not a crime to say overstay a visa. But taking the kids away permanently has been a popular republican policy. Legally it is rather like taking someones kids away for a speeding ticket. This is popular as long as it targets the right color kids.

A majority of republicans like this. And I mean they are doing the important thing of monitoring the cycles of the girls so that if they are raped they have to carry the pregnancy to term but keeping track of what happened to kids you took from their parents is too much work for them. This is exactly how they want the government to work.
What in the world does this have to do with the post that this string of posts originally quoted?

If you are just going to engaging in "whataboutisms", I will bow out. This is the main point of my original post. There can be no reconciliation between the opposing sides if meaningful communication is impossible. This breakdown in communication is leading to violence.
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Old 10th April 2019, 11:00 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Quote:
Your desperation is showing. Sure, he uttered the phrase "very fine people" but you're trying to shoehorn that into showing support for nazis and white supremacists. Feel free to lay out your case if you want, but you're going to run into problems unless you're just trying to preach to "the resistance".
Those were the people organizing the event. Why is it wrong to classify members attending a political rally by the organizers of the rally?
Not only were the people organizing the event neo-nazis and other forms of racists, the event itself featured plenty of swastikas, as well as chants like "Jews will not replace us". I think its safe to say that even if there was someone who wasn't racist but attended the rally thinking there were legitimate reasons to be there would have realized pretty quickly that, like it or not, it was a gathering of racists and would have left immediately. Anyone who didn't leave immediately upon seeing the first swastika would be classified as a racist (the type that Trump labeled 'fine people'.)
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Old 10th April 2019, 01:23 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Not only were the people organizing the event neo-nazis and other forms of racists, the event itself featured plenty of swastikas, as well as chants like "Jews will not replace us". I think its safe to say that even if there was someone who wasn't racist but attended the rally thinking there were legitimate reasons to be there would have realized pretty quickly that, like it or not, it was a gathering of racists and would have left immediately. Anyone who didn't leave immediately upon seeing the first swastika would be classified as a racist (the type that Trump labeled 'fine people'.)
For that matter, even the promotional posters had Confederate and anti-Semitic symbols - the most famous one had a bunch of Pepe the Frog replicas, in Confederate uniforms, with Nazi Eagles over their heads. A less famous one featured a man winding up to swing a sledgehammer at a Star of David. These guys were not at all subtle about what they were actually marching for, and it wasn't some statue.
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