Shameful college video of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has come to light - Page 8

JoeMorgue · 7th January 2019, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

I still don't get why people are confusing lols with outrage.

I'm saying (most all of) the "LOLs" are aimed at some hypothetical Republican outrage that doesn't exist, or at least hasn't shown itself yet.

Like I said this whole thing has been "Okay so no Republicans worth talking about are actually bothered by this, but wouldn't it be funny if they were?" and that just seems... pointless and off and sort of baity to me, like people are poking the Republicans with a stick until they get upset about this.

Porpoise of Life · 7th January 2019, 10:57 AM

I think people are confusing the Republicans with John Lithgow's character in Footloose.

ahhell · 7th January 2019, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

This dancing video thing is definitely a tempest in a teapot, but there is a larger narrative being addressed in this thread that is certainly worthy of discussion.

I'm uncertain what is actually worth discussing here. Granted, I'm still discussing it but I think that says more about me than the subject in question.

Seriously though, what is the larger narrative? Other than "haters gonna hate haters who gonna hate........."

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

I still don't get why people are confusing lols with outrage. Are we to believe that there is outrage over Fiji Water Girl?

Who's loling at who? This "controversy" seems to be a bunch of people loling at replickers outraged over AOC dancing. When it really just looks like one random dude on the internet who appears to care about it at all. Like many supposed controversies these days, I find myself more confused and befuddled about why anyone cares than loling or frothing at the mouth.

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life

I think people are confusing the Republicans with John Lithgow's character in Footloose.

To be fair, its often an understandable confusion, depending on the Republican. The real problem is that people seem to confuse Mitt Romney with Steve King, who is a caricature of John Lithgow's character from Footloose.

Delvo · 7th January 2019, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

I did read someone making an interesting point - this is going to become the new normal as new people enter politics. Younger people have grown up in a world of the internet and cheap video cameras and smartphones. It's not at all surprising that there is a YouTube video featuring a 29 year-old.

Expect to see more of this kind of thing in the future.

Originally Posted by quadraginta

I think it's great that there is going to be more evidence of members of Congress actually having had pure, harmless fun at some point in their lives and who might even still be young enough to remember it when they take office.

I can even foresee it becoming so common that a lack of such pictures & videos will be seen as a bit odd, as if meaning they're trying to hide something, and some will feel as if they need to put something out there themselves just to prove they weren't a recluse/loser.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

When I first read the headline for this story, I thought for sure some right wing troll dug up a cell phone video of AOC drunkenly dancing at some grimy college house party.

Originally Posted by Thermal

Returning briefly to the thread title: don't clickbait, yo. I had the lights dimmed in preparation.

The kinds of videos you two are talking about will also get more common and more apathy-inducing, for the same reasons as the above. The easier it is to be on video dancing, the easier it is to be on video doing other things too. And men in particular, at least if they have political aspirations, will have extra incentive to record themselves even if they wouldn't want to otherwise, not only to establish that they weren't losers as mentioned above, but also to establish that sex was mutual, in case of subsequent accusations.

BobTheCoward · 7th January 2019, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Border Reiver

It's a lovely sentiment - the Robin Hood legends as currently promulgated with "Evil Prince John" as the greedy taxer in chief, John is trying to raise money to get rid of his absentee brother. Richard was away from England because on his return from the Crusade he was imprisoned by the Archduke of Austria for insulting the Archduke. John was imposing those taxes to pay the ransom imposed by the Austrians for the release of King Richard - ie. if he wanted the throne, all he had to do was tell Austria, "We're not going to pay ransom." Since John was Richard's designated Regent until his return to Plangenet lands (either England or Aquitaine), he didn't need the support of anyone to act like the King - for all intents and purposes he WAS the king.

Robby was making it harder for the legitimate government (ie. John the Prince Regent) to carry out the functions of government (in this case securing the return of the actual head of state) and increasing the burden on others. In addition to impeding the flow of goods in Nottinghamshire and ruing in trade.

Robin Hood (as the legend is currently told) is a common crook with good PR. The modern equivalent would be John Dillinger or Bonnie and Clyde who were only hurting the banks...

Monarchy is not legitimate.

johnny karate · 7th January 2019, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I'm really starting to hate the term "narrative."

Reality does not have a separate story being told on top of it.

So basically "Well no, no actual Republican in any sort of positions of power or influence has said anything yet about the AOC dancing video... but doesn't it just seem like the sort of thing they'd get upset about? Can't you just... imagine them doing it?"

And again eventually the "I bet there's some outrage somewhere I just have to find it" will create outrage and the whole thing will be a self fulfilling prophecy.

There is no story being told on top of reality.

The larger narrative being discussed is the one about the Right’s obsession and hypocrisy in regard to Ocasio-Cortez.

This is occurring very much in reality.

Watch the video linked earlier in this thread in which she is booed in Congress.

Read the article linked in the post immediately after yours in which a major conservative media outlet breaks the earth-shattering story that she went by “Sandy” in high school.

Or just take a look at this article. Note it was published months before she even took office.

And then take a look at the criticisms being leveled at her and remember that they’re coming from people who defend Donald Trump. There’s actually some nice examples in this very thread.

The dancing video issue specifically isn’t much to talk about, but the larger issue of which it is part definitely is.

kookbreaker · 7th January 2019, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Stacko

The stupidest man on the internet is on the case of "common nicknames for Alexandria." It's really telling that in the age of Trump that's an outlet that gets White House press credentials.

Man, Gateway “we totally got a sex scandal with Mueller for sursies” Pundit sure likes falling flat on its face of late, doesn’t it?

JoeMorgue · 7th January 2019, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

The larger narrative being discussed is the one about the Right’s obsession and hypocrisy in regard to Ocasio-Cortez.

So please explain to me what part of this "narrative" one random anonymous Twitter user is?

"Republicans have launched political attacks on her and this one random, anonymous Twitter user that we have zero idea about his social or political ideology posts an old video of her dancing with a snarky comment about it! IT'S ALL LINKED!"

This "Republicans are out to get her, so everything said negative about her in any context is about that" is a stretch.

applecorped · 7th January 2019, 11:31 AM

Occasional Cortex

Damien Evans · 7th January 2019, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Monarchy is not legitimate.

Sure Jan.

Border Reiver · 7th January 2019, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Monarchy is not legitimate.

If people accept it as legitimate, it's legitimate.

Just like every other form of government.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

crescent · 7th January 2019, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Stacko

The stupidest man on the internet is on the case of "common nicknames for Alexandria." It's really telling that in the age of Trump that's an outlet that gets White House press credentials.

The trouble with "Sandy": Trump fans love their con man, but think lefties are fake

Quote:

Because Ocasio-Cortez no longer uses her childhood nickname, Hoft accused her of being one of many "Democrat hoaxers." Also included in this alleged group is Beto O'Rourke, who is thus accused for keeping his childhood nickname.

Note that there's no way to win this game. No matter what approach one takes to a childhood nickname — losing it or keeping it — the right will hold it out as "proof" that a Democrat is an imposter. That's because these trolls are operating from a foreordained conclusion, which is all Democrats or liberals or progressives are a pack of phonies. All evidence, no matter how trivial silly, is reverse-engineered to fit this conclusion.

Quote:

But Hoft, who is a honking moron in most regards, knows what he's doing. As my colleague Andrew O'Hehir observed over the weekend, with regards to the Beltway pearl-clutching over Rep. Rashida Tlaib calling Trump a "************," there's "no way to separate the exaggerated reaction to Tlaib’s remarks from the fact that her presence on Capitol Hill, and even her existence as an American citizen, pushes people’s buttons."

ahhell · 7th January 2019, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

I still don't get why people are confusing lols with outrage. Are we to believe that there is outrage over Fiji Water Girl?

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life

I think people are confusing the Republicans with John Lithgow's character in Footloose.

Originally Posted by johnny karate

There is no story being told on top of reality.

The larger narrative being discussed is the one about the Right’s obsession and hypocrisy in regard to Ocasio-Cortez.

This is occurring very much in reality.

Watch the video linked earlier in this thread in which she is booed in Congress.

Read the article linked in the post immediately after yours in which a major conservative media outlet breaks the earth-shattering story that she went by “Sandy” in high school.

Or just take a look at this article. Note it was published months before she even took office.

And then take a look at the criticisms being leveled at her and remember that they’re coming from people who defend Donald Trump. There’s actually some nice examples in this very thread.

The dancing video issue specifically isn’t much to talk about, but the larger issue of which it is part definitely is.

At the risk of being inflammatory, I'm reminded of the blanking while black threads. Racism is definitely a thing with impact in America but most of the blanking while black threads aren't particularly compelling examples of it. The rights obsession with AOC(something I'm not quite ready to concede) may be a real thing, this is a particularly uncompelling example of it. It seems to more of an example of "the lefts" obsession with "the rights" obsession.

Aside from that, it totally makes sense for the right wing media to flog stories about AOC, she's good looking so the click bait is easy and she's pretty far on the left of the Dems, it makes it easy to paint all dems as far to the left. Same is true of Warren, she's just not as good looking and she's been around longer. AOC is proof(in their eyes) of the radical shift to the left the Dems are taking.

sir drinks-a-lot · 7th January 2019, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

There are too many specific things, so much of what she says is either crazy or nonsensical. Well maybe not everything, but here are a few...

This doesn't even make sense:

Policy: She wants the country to be 100% green energy by 2030. No fossil fuels.

???

Wrong. 34,000 beds must be provided, that is all.

Policy: abolish ICE. And no, ICE does not operate under Homeland Security, but easy mistake to make.

Really dude, I could break this forum with her stupid quotes and policy ideas.

Sorry for not providing quotes before but I think it's pointless here at this forum. I didn't try very hard with the ones above but again, after 15 years or more at this forum, I'm over it I guess.

Now your turn - show me the genius that is Ocasio-Cortez. What great policies is she working on? 70% tax on the rich? What has she got going for her?

Isn't most of that just typical dumb lefty stuff these days? I don't see how she is particulary bad to the agree you seem to think.

johnny karate · 7th January 2019, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So please explain to me what part of this "narrative" one random anonymous Twitter user is?

"Republicans have launched political attacks on her and this one random, anonymous Twitter user that we have zero idea about his social or political ideology posts an old video of her dancing with a snarky comment about it! IT'S ALL LINKED!"

This "Republicans are out to get her, so everything said negative about her in any context is about that" is a stretch.

I've already conceded that the dancing video thing is being blown out of proportion. I don't think it requires further explanation.

johnny karate · 7th January 2019, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by ahhell

At the risk of being inflammatory, I'm reminded of the blanking while black threads. Racism is definitely a thing with impact in America but most of the blanking while black threads aren't particularly compelling examples of it. The rights obsession with AOC(something I'm not quite ready to concede) may be a real thing, this is a particularly uncompelling example of it. It seems to more of an example of "the lefts" obsession with "the rights" obsession.

Aside from that, it totally makes sense for the right wing media to flog stories about AOC, she's good looking so the click bait is easy and she's pretty far on the left of the Dems, it makes it easy to paint all dems as far to the left. Same is true of Warren, she's just not as good looking and she's been around longer. AOC is proof(in their eyes) of the radical shift to the left the Dems are taking.

Evidence of the obsession - and the underlying hypocrisy - have been provided. Most notably in the very post of mine that you just quoted.

Whether or not you choose to look at it or accept it is entirely up to you.

Stacyhs · 7th January 2019, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

Isn't most of that just typical dumb lefty stuff these days? I don't see how she is particulary bad to the agree you seem to think.

So you think the goal of getting the US off fossil fuels is a dumb idea? What? Are you heavily invested in fossil fuel stocks?

Abolishing ICE is not " just typical dumb lefty stuff". The vast majority (75%) of Democrats do not support abolishing ICE.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...to-abolish-ice

ahhell · 7th January 2019, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Evidence of the obsession - and the underlying hypocrisy - have been provided. Most notably in the very post of mine that you just quoted.

Whether or not you choose to look at it or accept it is entirely up to you.

A Vox article regarding the rights obsession? Also, even if they are obsessed, what's teh underlying hypocrisy? Painting your opponents as dangerous radicals? That's just politics.

acbytesla · 7th January 2019, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Monarchy is not legitimate.

Originally Posted by Border Reiver

If people accept it as legitimate, it's legitimate.

Just like every other form of government.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.

Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

You can't expect to exercise supreme executive power just because a watery tart threw a sword at you.

Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.

jimbob · 7th January 2019, 01:02 PM

Quote:

The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.

Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

You can't expect to exercise supreme executive power just because a watery tart threw a sword at you.

Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.

Help I'm being repressed

Crossbow · 7th January 2019, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Help I'm being repressed

Come and see the violence inherent in the system!

acbytesla · 7th January 2019, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Help I'm being repressed

Be Quiet!

acbytesla · 7th January 2019, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

Come and see the violence inherent in the system!

I said 'BE QUIET!'

johnny karate · 7th January 2019, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by ahhell

A sourced Vox article regarding the rights obsession?

Yes, with the added modifier.

Quote:

Also, even if they are obsessed, what's teh underlying hypocrisy? Painting your opponents as dangerous radicals? That's just politics.

The underlying hypocrisy has been demonstrated in this thread.

I don’t feel a particular inclination to offer a synopsis of the discussion or convince you of anything.

The information and evidence have been provided. Do with it what you will.

JoeMorgue · 7th January 2019, 01:20 PM

This bullcrap "Oh you said something about X but didn't say anything about Y" whataboutism version of Hypocrisy is really killing political discourse at a time we really need to not be killing political discourse.

Yes politics make people give slack to members of their own tribe and give no slack to members of the other tribe. Everybody knows that. Pointing it out again and again every time it happens accomplishes absolutely nothing.

johnny karate · 7th January 2019, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

This bullcrap "Oh you said something about X but didn't say anything about Y" whataboutism version of Hypocrisy is really killing political discourse at a time we really need to not be killing political discourse.

Yes politics make people give slack to members of their own tribe and give no slack to members of the other tribe. Everybody knows that. Pointing it out again and again every time it happens accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Okay then.

Bob001 · 7th January 2019, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Remember when Trump lied about how wealthy he was by falsely claiming his father's property as his own just so he could get on the Forbes 400 list? That is the kind of mentality you're talking about.

The clearest explanation so far for the right-wing view:

Quote:

Republicans find that analysis appalling, because for them, the top marginal rate is a deeply moral issue. Setting the rate that high would be simply wrong, not because it means Jamie Dimon would decide to forgo the car elevator when he builds his third vacation home if his taxes were higher (he probably wouldn’t), but because it just is. Wealth is a sign of virtue, and taxing those who have proved their virtue by being rich is abhorrent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...?noredirect=on

And maybe ACO really isn't so crazy (also from above):

Quote:

What Ocasio-Cortez is suggesting, and many liberals support, is setting a series of higher tax rates at the top end of the scale. You could keep the existing brackets, which top out at 37 percent for those making more than $510,300. But then you could add new brackets, say 50 percent for income over $1 million, 60 percent for income over $5 million and 70 percent for income over $10 million.

Stacko · 7th January 2019, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Man, Gateway “we totally got a sex scandal with Mueller for sursies” Pundit sure likes falling flat on its face of late, doesn’t it?

Of late!? It's their raison d'etre. It used to be a kook conspiracy theory blog but thanks to the conspiracy theory nutter in chief it's gone mainstream.

Crossbow · 7th January 2019, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I said 'BE QUIET!'

I am such a bloody peasant!

acbytesla · 7th January 2019, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

I am such a bloody peasant!

Monet: The people are revolting.

King: You can say that again. They stink on ice.

Monet: The peasants think you have no regard for them

King: What? I have no regard for the people? They are my people. I am their soverign.
I love them......Pull.

JoeMorgue · 7th January 2019, 01:58 PM

Quintus: People should know when they are conquered.
Maximus: Would you, Quintus? Would I?

PhantomWolf · 7th January 2019, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Stacko

The stupidest man on the internet is on the case of "common nicknames for Alexandria." It's really telling that in the age of Trump that's an outlet that gets White House press credentials.

It's not even that hard to work out...

Alexandria -> Xandra -> Sandra -> Sandy

carlitos · 7th January 2019, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

It was just a few years ago that I saw a group photo of the 100 member Senate, and it was 100% white men. That was a stunning realization.

Was it a black and white photo? There have been women and persons of color in the Senate for quite some time now. There are 25 women Senators as we speak.

Bob001 · 7th January 2019, 02:12 PM

7th January 2019, 10:48 AM	#281
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 17,055	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim I still don't get why people are confusing lols with outrage. I'm saying (most all of) the "LOLs" are aimed at some hypothetical Republican outrage that doesn't exist, or at least hasn't shown itself yet. Like I said this whole thing has been "Okay so no Republicans worth talking about are actually bothered by this, but wouldn't it be funny if they were?" and that just seems... pointless and off and sort of baity to me, like people are poking the Republicans with a stick until they get upset about this.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC Last edited by JoeMorgue; 7th January 2019 at 11:03 AM.

7th January 2019, 10:59 AM	#283
ahhell Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,205	Originally Posted by johnny karate This dancing video thing is definitely a tempest in a teapot, but there is a larger narrative being addressed in this thread that is certainly worthy of discussion. I'm uncertain what is actually worth discussing here. Granted, I'm still discussing it but I think that says more about me than the subject in question. Seriously though, what is the larger narrative? Other than "haters gonna hate haters who gonna hate........." Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim I still don't get why people are confusing lols with outrage. Are we to believe that there is outrage over Fiji Water Girl? Who's loling at who? This "controversy" seems to be a bunch of people loling at replickers outraged over AOC dancing. When it really just looks like one random dude on the internet who appears to care about it at all. Like many supposed controversies these days, I find myself more confused and befuddled about why anyone cares than loling or frothing at the mouth. Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life I think people are confusing the Republicans with John Lithgow's character in Footloose. To be fair, its often an understandable confusion, depending on the Republican. The real problem is that people seem to confuse Mitt Romney with Steve King, who is a caricature of John Lithgow's character from Footloose.
ahhell Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,205	Last edited by ahhell; 7th January 2019 at 11:05 AM.

7th January 2019, 11:30 AM	#287
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 11,966	Originally Posted by Stacko The stupidest man on the internet is on the case of "common nicknames for Alexandria." It's really telling that in the age of Trump that's an outlet that gets White House press credentials. Man, Gateway “we totally got a sex scandal with Mueller for sursies” Pundit sure likes falling flat on its face of late, doesn’t it?
	__________________ www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun! Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.

7th January 2019, 11:31 AM	#288
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 17,055	Originally Posted by johnny karate The larger narrative being discussed is the one about the Right’s obsession and hypocrisy in regard to Ocasio-Cortez. So please explain to me what part of this "narrative" one random anonymous Twitter user is? "Republicans have launched political attacks on her and this one random, anonymous Twitter user that we have zero idea about his social or political ideology posts an old video of her dancing with a snarky comment about it! IT'S ALL LINKED!" This "Republicans are out to get her, so everything said negative about her in any context is about that" is a stretch.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC Last edited by JoeMorgue; 7th January 2019 at 11:34 AM.

7th January 2019, 11:31 AM	#289
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 19,129	Occasional Cortex
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

7th January 2019, 10:57 AM	#282
Porpoise of Life Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 4,747	I think people are confusing the Republicans with John Lithgow's character in Footloose.

7th January 2019, 11:07 AM	#284
Delvo الشيطان الأبيض Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 7,814	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim I did read someone making an interesting point - this is going to become the new normal as new people enter politics. Younger people have grown up in a world of the internet and cheap video cameras and smartphones. It's not at all surprising that there is a YouTube video featuring a 29 year-old. Expect to see more of this kind of thing in the future. Originally Posted by quadraginta I think it's great that there is going to be more evidence of members of Congress actually having had pure, harmless fun at some point in their lives and who might even still be young enough to remember it when they take office. I can even foresee it becoming so common that a lack of such pictures & videos will be seen as a bit odd, as if meaning they're trying to hide something, and some will feel as if they need to put something out there themselves just to prove they weren't a recluse/loser. Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey When I first read the headline for this story, I thought for sure some right wing troll dug up a cell phone video of AOC drunkenly dancing at some grimy college house party. Originally Posted by Thermal Returning briefly to the thread title: don't clickbait, yo. I had the lights dimmed in preparation. The kinds of videos you two are talking about will also get more common and more apathy-inducing, for the same reasons as the above. The easier it is to be on video dancing, the easier it is to be on video doing other things too. And men in particular, at least if they have political aspirations, will have extra incentive to record themselves even if they wouldn't want to otherwise, not only to establish that they weren't losers as mentioned above, but also to establish that sex was mutual, in case of subsequent accusations.

7th January 2019, 11:13 AM	#285
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 16,371	Originally Posted by Border Reiver It's a lovely sentiment - the Robin Hood legends as currently promulgated with "Evil Prince John" as the greedy taxer in chief, John is trying to raise money to get rid of his absentee brother. Richard was away from England because on his return from the Crusade he was imprisoned by the Archduke of Austria for insulting the Archduke. John was imposing those taxes to pay the ransom imposed by the Austrians for the release of King Richard - ie. if he wanted the throne, all he had to do was tell Austria, "We're not going to pay ransom." Since John was Richard's designated Regent until his return to Plangenet lands (either England or Aquitaine), he didn't need the support of anyone to act like the King - for all intents and purposes he WAS the king. Robby was making it harder for the legitimate government (ie. John the Prince Regent) to carry out the functions of government (in this case securing the return of the actual head of state) and increasing the burden on others. In addition to impeding the flow of goods in Nottinghamshire and ruing in trade. Robin Hood (as the legend is currently told) is a common crook with good PR. The modern equivalent would be John Dillinger or Bonnie and Clyde who were only hurting the banks... Monarchy is not legitimate.

7th January 2019, 11:23 AM	#286
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 11,930	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue I'm really starting to hate the term "narrative." Reality does not have a separate story being told on top of it. So basically "Well no, no actual Republican in any sort of positions of power or influence has said anything yet about the AOC dancing video... but doesn't it just seem like the sort of thing they'd get upset about? Can't you just... imagine them doing it?" And again eventually the "I bet there's some outrage somewhere I just have to find it" will create outrage and the whole thing will be a self fulfilling prophecy. There is no story being told on top of reality. The larger narrative being discussed is the one about the Right’s obsession and hypocrisy in regard to Ocasio-Cortez. This is occurring very much in reality. Watch the video linked earlier in this thread in which she is booed in Congress. Read the article linked in the post immediately after yours in which a major conservative media outlet breaks the earth-shattering story that she went by “Sandy” in high school. Or just take a look at this article. Note it was published months before she even took office. And then take a look at the criticisms being leveled at her and remember that they’re coming from people who defend Donald Trump. There’s actually some nice examples in this very thread. The dancing video issue specifically isn’t much to talk about, but the larger issue of which it is part definitely is.

7th January 2019, 11:41 AM	#290
Damien Evans Up The Irons Tagger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 34,421	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Monarchy is not legitimate. Sure Jan.
	__________________ i loves the little birdies they goes tweet tweet tweet hee hee i loves them they sings to each other tweet twet tweet hee hee i loves them they is so cute i love yje little birdies little birdies in the room when birfies sings ther is no gloom i lobes the little birdies they goess tweet tweet tweet hee hee hee i loves them they sings me to sleep sing me to slrrp now little birdies - The wisdom of Shemp.

7th January 2019, 11:53 AM	#291
Border Reiver Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,589	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Monarchy is not legitimate. If people accept it as legitimate, it's legitimate. Just like every other form of government. I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
	__________________ Questions, comments, queries, bitches, complaints, rude gestures and/or remarks?

7th January 2019, 12:07 PM	#292
crescent Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,968	Originally Posted by Stacko The stupidest man on the internet is on the case of "common nicknames for Alexandria." It's really telling that in the age of Trump that's an outlet that gets White House press credentials. The trouble with "Sandy": Trump fans love their con man, but think lefties are fake Quote: Because Ocasio-Cortez no longer uses her childhood nickname, Hoft accused her of being one of many "Democrat hoaxers." Also included in this alleged group is Beto O'Rourke, who is thus accused for keeping his childhood nickname. Note that there's no way to win this game. No matter what approach one takes to a childhood nickname — losing it or keeping it — the right will hold it out as "proof" that a Democrat is an imposter. That's because these trolls are operating from a foreordained conclusion, which is all Democrats or liberals or progressives are a pack of phonies. All evidence, no matter how trivial silly, is reverse-engineered to fit this conclusion. Quote: But Hoft, who is a honking moron in most regards, knows what he's doing. As my colleague Andrew O'Hehir observed over the weekend, with regards to the Beltway pearl-clutching over Rep. Rashida Tlaib calling Trump a "************," there's "no way to separate the exaggerated reaction to Tlaib’s remarks from the fact that her presence on Capitol Hill, and even her existence as an American citizen, pushes people’s buttons."
crescent Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,968

7th January 2019, 12:14 PM	#293
ahhell Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,205	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim I still don't get why people are confusing lols with outrage. Are we to believe that there is outrage over Fiji Water Girl? Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life I think people are confusing the Republicans with John Lithgow's character in Footloose. Originally Posted by johnny karate There is no story being told on top of reality. The larger narrative being discussed is the one about the Right’s obsession and hypocrisy in regard to Ocasio-Cortez. This is occurring very much in reality. Watch the video linked earlier in this thread in which she is booed in Congress. Read the article linked in the post immediately after yours in which a major conservative media outlet breaks the earth-shattering story that she went by “Sandy” in high school. Or just take a look at this article. Note it was published months before she even took office. And then take a look at the criticisms being leveled at her and remember that they’re coming from people who defend Donald Trump. There’s actually some nice examples in this very thread. The dancing video issue specifically isn’t much to talk about, but the larger issue of which it is part definitely is. At the risk of being inflammatory, I'm reminded of the blanking while black threads. Racism is definitely a thing with impact in America but most of the blanking while black threads aren't particularly compelling examples of it. The rights obsession with AOC(something I'm not quite ready to concede) may be a real thing, this is a particularly uncompelling example of it. It seems to more of an example of "the lefts" obsession with "the rights" obsession. Aside from that, it totally makes sense for the right wing media to flog stories about AOC, she's good looking so the click bait is easy and she's pretty far on the left of the Dems, it makes it easy to paint all dems as far to the left. Same is true of Warren, she's just not as good looking and she's been around longer. AOC is proof(in their eyes) of the radical shift to the left the Dems are taking.
ahhell Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,205	Last edited by ahhell; 7th January 2019 at 12:23 PM.

7th January 2019, 12:14 PM	#294
sir drinks-a-lot Illuminator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Cole Valley, CA Posts: 3,666	Originally Posted by mgidm86 There are too many specific things, so much of what she says is either crazy or nonsensical. Well maybe not everything, but here are a few... This doesn't even make sense: Policy: She wants the country to be 100% green energy by 2030. No fossil fuels. ??? Wrong. 34,000 beds must be provided, that is all. Policy: abolish ICE. And no, ICE does not operate under Homeland Security, but easy mistake to make. Really dude, I could break this forum with her stupid quotes and policy ideas. Sorry for not providing quotes before but I think it's pointless here at this forum. I didn't try very hard with the ones above but again, after 15 years or more at this forum, I'm over it I guess. Now your turn - show me the genius that is Ocasio-Cortez. What great policies is she working on? 70% tax on the rich? What has she got going for her? Isn't most of that just typical dumb lefty stuff these days? I don't see how she is particulary bad to the agree you seem to think.
	__________________ I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare

7th January 2019, 12:27 PM	#295
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 11,930	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So please explain to me what part of this "narrative" one random anonymous Twitter user is? "Republicans have launched political attacks on her and this one random, anonymous Twitter user that we have zero idea about his social or political ideology posts an old video of her dancing with a snarky comment about it! IT'S ALL LINKED!" This "Republicans are out to get her, so everything said negative about her in any context is about that" is a stretch. I've already conceded that the dancing video thing is being blown out of proportion. I don't think it requires further explanation.

7th January 2019, 12:31 PM	#296
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 11,930	Originally Posted by ahhell At the risk of being inflammatory, I'm reminded of the blanking while black threads. Racism is definitely a thing with impact in America but most of the blanking while black threads aren't particularly compelling examples of it. The rights obsession with AOC(something I'm not quite ready to concede) may be a real thing, this is a particularly uncompelling example of it. It seems to more of an example of "the lefts" obsession with "the rights" obsession. Aside from that, it totally makes sense for the right wing media to flog stories about AOC, she's good looking so the click bait is easy and she's pretty far on the left of the Dems, it makes it easy to paint all dems as far to the left. Same is true of Warren, she's just not as good looking and she's been around longer. AOC is proof(in their eyes) of the radical shift to the left the Dems are taking. Evidence of the obsession - and the underlying hypocrisy - have been provided. Most notably in the very post of mine that you just quoted. Whether or not you choose to look at it or accept it is entirely up to you.

7th January 2019, 12:38 PM	#297
Stacyhs Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 7,018	Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot Isn't most of that just typical dumb lefty stuff these days? I don't see how she is particulary bad to the agree you seem to think. So you think the goal of getting the US off fossil fuels is a dumb idea? What? Are you heavily invested in fossil fuel stocks? Abolishing ICE is not " just typical dumb lefty stuff". The vast majority (75%) of Democrats do not support abolishing ICE. https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...to-abolish-ice
Stacyhs Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 7,018

7th January 2019, 12:52 PM	#298
ahhell Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,205	Originally Posted by johnny karate Evidence of the obsession - and the underlying hypocrisy - have been provided. Most notably in the very post of mine that you just quoted. Whether or not you choose to look at it or accept it is entirely up to you. A Vox article regarding the rights obsession? Also, even if they are obsessed, what's teh underlying hypocrisy? Painting your opponents as dangerous radicals? That's just politics.
ahhell Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,205

7th January 2019, 12:59 PM	#299
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 21,184	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Monarchy is not legitimate. Originally Posted by Border Reiver If people accept it as legitimate, it's legitimate. Just like every other form of government. I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king. Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. You can't expect to exercise supreme executive power just because a watery tart threw a sword at you. Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.
	__________________ “ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume

7th January 2019, 01:02 PM	#300
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 20,384	Quote: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king. Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. You can't expect to exercise supreme executive power just because a watery tart threw a sword at you. Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away. Help I'm being repressed
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

7th January 2019, 01:11 PM	#301
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 12,502	Originally Posted by jimbob Help I'm being repressed Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
	__________________ On 22 JUL 2016, Candidate Donald Trump in his acceptance speech: "There can be no prosperity without law and order." On 05 FEB 2019, President Donald Trump said in his Sate of the Union Address: "If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation." On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool." A man's best friend is his dogma.

7th January 2019, 01:13 PM	#302
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 21,184	Originally Posted by jimbob Help I'm being repressed Be Quiet!
	__________________ “ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume

7th January 2019, 01:14 PM	#303
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 21,184	Originally Posted by Crossbow Come and see the violence inherent in the system! I said 'BE QUIET!'
	__________________ “ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume

7th January 2019, 01:17 PM	#304
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 11,930	Originally Posted by ahhell A sourced Vox article regarding the rights obsession? Yes, with the added modifier. Quote: Also, even if they are obsessed, what's teh underlying hypocrisy? Painting your opponents as dangerous radicals? That's just politics. The underlying hypocrisy has been demonstrated in this thread. I don’t feel a particular inclination to offer a synopsis of the discussion or convince you of anything. The information and evidence have been provided. Do with it what you will.

7th January 2019, 01:20 PM	#305
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 17,055	This bullcrap "Oh you said something about X but didn't say anything about Y" whataboutism version of Hypocrisy is really killing political discourse at a time we really need to not be killing political discourse. Yes politics make people give slack to members of their own tribe and give no slack to members of the other tribe. Everybody knows that. Pointing it out again and again every time it happens accomplishes absolutely nothing.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

7th January 2019, 01:23 PM	#306
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 11,930	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue This bullcrap "Oh you said something about X but didn't say anything about Y" whataboutism version of Hypocrisy is really killing political discourse at a time we really need to not be killing political discourse. Yes politics make people give slack to members of their own tribe and give no slack to members of the other tribe. Everybody knows that. Pointing it out again and again every time it happens accomplishes absolutely nothing. Okay then.

7th January 2019, 01:23 PM	#307
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,540	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Remember when Trump lied about how wealthy he was by falsely claiming his father's property as his own just so he could get on the Forbes 400 list? That is the kind of mentality you're talking about. The clearest explanation so far for the right-wing view: Quote: Republicans find that analysis appalling, because for them, the top marginal rate is a deeply moral issue. Setting the rate that high would be simply wrong, not because it means Jamie Dimon would decide to forgo the car elevator when he builds his third vacation home if his taxes were higher (he probably wouldn’t), but because it just is. Wealth is a sign of virtue, and taxing those who have proved their virtue by being rich is abhorrent. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...?noredirect=on And maybe ACO really isn't so crazy (also from above): Quote: What Ocasio-Cortez is suggesting, and many liberals support, is setting a series of higher tax rates at the top end of the scale. You could keep the existing brackets, which top out at 37 percent for those making more than $510,300. But then you could add new brackets, say 50 percent for income over $1 million, 60 percent for income over $5 million and 70 percent for income over $10 million.
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,540

7th January 2019, 01:35 PM	#308
Stacko Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,771	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Man, Gateway “we totally got a sex scandal with Mueller for sursies” Pundit sure likes falling flat on its face of late, doesn’t it? Of late!? It's their raison d'etre. It used to be a kook conspiracy theory blog but thanks to the conspiracy theory nutter in chief it's gone mainstream.

7th January 2019, 01:37 PM	#309
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 12,502	Originally Posted by acbytesla I said 'BE QUIET!' I am such a bloody peasant!
	__________________ On 22 JUL 2016, Candidate Donald Trump in his acceptance speech: "There can be no prosperity without law and order." On 05 FEB 2019, President Donald Trump said in his Sate of the Union Address: "If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation." On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool." A man's best friend is his dogma.

7th January 2019, 01:57 PM	#310
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 21,184	Originally Posted by Crossbow I am such a bloody peasant! Monet: The people are revolting. King: You can say that again. They stink on ice. Monet: The peasants think you have no regard for them King: What? I have no regard for the people? They are my people. I am their soverign. I love them......Pull.
	__________________ “ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume

7th January 2019, 01:58 PM	#311
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 17,055	Quintus: People should know when they are conquered. Maximus: Would you, Quintus? Would I?
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

7th January 2019, 02:02 PM	#312
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 18,248	Originally Posted by Stacko The stupidest man on the internet is on the case of "common nicknames for Alexandria." It's really telling that in the age of Trump that's an outlet that gets White House press credentials. It's not even that hard to work out... Alexandria -> Xandra -> Sandra -> Sandy
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

7th January 2019, 02:10 PM	#313
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 19,678	Originally Posted by Thermal It was just a few years ago that I saw a group photo of the 100 member Senate, and it was 100% white men. That was a stunning realization. Was it a black and white photo? There have been women and persons of color in the Senate for quite some time now. There are 25 women Senators as we speak.
	Last edited by carlitos; 7th January 2019 at 02:13 PM. Reason: 25 not 23...

7th January 2019, 02:12 PM	#314
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,540	More on those tax rates: Quote: Historically, the United States used to have many more tax brackets, and the top marginal tax rates were extremely high. Under Eisenhower, the top earners paid a 91 percent marginal rate, falling to Ocasio-Cortez’s proposed 70 percent under Kennedy and Johnson, before falling to 50 percent after Ronald Reagan’s first big tax cut, and then down to 38 percent after the 1986 tax reform. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...tez-70-percent
Bob001 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,540

7th January 2019, 02:15 PM	#315
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 17,055	Originally Posted by carlitos Was it a black and white photo? There have been women and persons of color in the Senate for quite some time now. There are 25 women Senators as we speak. Lisa: "That's right! A girl wants to play football. How about that!" Flanders: "That's superduper Lisa. In fact we've already got four girls on the team!" Lisa: Crestfallen "You do?"
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC