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Tags anti-semitism charges , Ilhan Omar , Kevin McCarthy , Minnesota politics , Twitter incidents

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Old 13th February 2019, 07:20 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yep! When a bigot is defended by bigots
When Trump is defended by ISF posters, you say?
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Old 13th February 2019, 07:22 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Just agreeing with your totally awesome point my dude!

Ton of literal nightmare bigots are rushing to the defense of the scumbag, and as you just pointed out?

"If someone is defended/supported by a bigot that tells us something important about the person being defended?"

Hell yes!

Great point Cavemonster!!!
This post needs more buzzwords.
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Old 13th February 2019, 07:38 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, the Trump campaign did take down that Hilary ad after it created a fuss and replaced it with an altered one.
Of course the graphic came originally from a nazi website but really there is nothing wrong with distributing nazi propaganda for them, they are fine people and you get in serious trouble if you call them deplorable.
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Old 13th February 2019, 07:53 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Here is Bernie Sanders publicly criticizing AIPAC and their lobbying efforts to affect US policy.

Here is Rand Paul publicly criticizing AIPAC for working against US interests.

Neither were accused of Antisemitism or forced to apologize. No one called for them to resign or be removed from committees.

I wonder what the difference is.
I read the Sanders piece. I didn't see anywhere that he criticised their lobbying.
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Old 13th February 2019, 07:55 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Here is Bernie Sanders publicly criticizing AIPAC and their lobbying efforts to affect US policy.

Here is Rand Paul publicly criticizing AIPAC for working against US interests.

Neither were accused of Antisemitism or forced to apologize. No one called for them to resign or be removed from committees.

I wonder what the difference is.
Ilhan has a long history of anti-Antisemitism and actually "apologized" for them, quite obviously
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:15 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Ilhan has a long history of anti-Antisemitism and actually "apologized" for them, quite obviously
Examples?
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:51 AM   #367
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Whistle!
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:55 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Whistle!
Why, did you hear something?
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Old 13th February 2019, 11:51 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Ilhan has a long history of anti-Antisemitism and actually "apologized" for them, quite obviously
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Examples?
Good luck on that one Belz. TBD has produces little or no evidence for his claims.
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Old 13th February 2019, 11:53 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Good luck on that one Belz. TBD has produces little or no evidence for his claims.
Don't worry. I'm well aware of his body of work. I know he can't and won't provide what I asked for.
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Old 13th February 2019, 12:19 PM   #371
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“Israel has hypnotized the world; may Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel.”
Ok Ilhan.....

hoo boy
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Old 13th February 2019, 12:20 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Here is Bernie Sanders publicly criticizing AIPAC and their lobbying efforts to affect US policy.

Here is Rand Paul publicly criticizing AIPAC for working against US interests.

Neither were accused of Antisemitism or forced to apologize. No one called for them to resign or be removed from committees.

I wonder what the difference is.
The way they said it.
If you don't get that HOW you say something, the exact wording, is very important then you are pretty damn ignorant of the way things work.
I don't think OMar is an anti semite, but I think the way she worded it was very badly thought out, and she paid the consequences.

Surpised I have to explain this.
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Old 13th February 2019, 12:23 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I just want to get this straight.

If someone is defended/supported by a bigot that tells us something important about the person being defended?

Because there's a certain president who has been supported by some real lovely characters....
But Dear Leader is above all criticism....
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Old 13th February 2019, 12:28 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
“Israel has hypnotized the world; may Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel.”
Ok Ilhan.....

hoo boy
See? Told you he couldn't do it.

On the other hand we see he conflates anti-zionism with anti-semitism.
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:13 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
See? Told you he couldn't do it.

On the other hand we see he conflates anti-zionism with anti-semitism.
He just did it. Seriously, "hypnotized the world" is directly out of the antisemtic playbook of Jewish conspiracies. That statement isn't merely critical of Israel, it isn't merely anti-zionist, it's straight out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:15 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
See? Told you he couldn't do it.

On the other hand we see he conflates anti-zionism with anti-semitism.
Define Anti Zionism. IMHO calls for the destruction of Israel are pretty Anti Semitic.
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:17 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
He just did it. Seriously, "hypnotized the world" is directly out of the antisemtic playbook of Jewish conspiracies. That statement isn't merely critical of Israel, it isn't merely anti-zionist, it's straight out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
I think you're reading a lot into that figure of speech.



Say, can you think of a criticism of Israel?
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:18 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Define Anti Zionism. IMHO calls for the destruction of Israel are pretty Anti Semitic.
That'd be far clearer, yes. Being opposed to the creation of that state is one thing. Being critical of Israel's policies is another. Wishing for its utter destruction is more than one notch up the ladder. But is that what she said?
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:18 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
He just did it. Seriously, "hypnotized the world" is directly out of the antisemtic playbook of Jewish conspiracies. That statement isn't merely critical of Israel, it isn't merely anti-zionist, it's straight out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
FOr once I have to agree with you.
Sadly, I am coming to the opinion that some on the left are just tone deaf when it comes to Anti Semitism.
They are so afraid of being labeled "Pro Israel" that they don't want to call out some obvious Anti Semitism.
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:20 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
FOr once I have to agree with you.
Sadly, I am coming to the opinion that some on the left are just tone deaf when it comes to Anti Semitism.
They are so afraid of being labeled "Pro Israel" that they don't want to call out some obvious Anti Semitism.
I do hope you're not suggestion that I'm in that group? It's clear that Israel is and remains the most positive state in the middle-east. That doesn't mean it's immune to criticism, and there's quite a few things to criticise. I'm Canadian, and I have more than a few criticisms about Canada, etc.

By the same token, many people seem to be unable to bring themselves to do that; criticise Israel, I mean, presumably least they be accused of anti-semitism the same way they accuse others.
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:27 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I think you're reading a lot into that figure of speech.

Not a ******* bit. If this woman really isn't anti-Semitic she desperately needs a handler.
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:28 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I think you're reading a lot into that figure of speech.
I think there's a lot in that figure of speech, and the choice of it.

Quote:
Say, can you think of a criticism of Israel?
Yes. Why?
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:31 PM   #383
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I'm generally not overly concerned with what someone said on Twitter over six years ago, but I do admit just in and off itself that tweet does read as... troubling.

I try, not always succeed but try, to not get too hung up on "code words" and am not generally in a rush to crucify anyone over using language that "sounds like" what someone else said, but that's a very oddly specific turn of phrase.
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Old 13th February 2019, 01:54 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
See? Told you he couldn't do it.

On the other hand we see he conflates anti-zionism with anti-semitism.
I know. Classic TBD. It's his gross exaggeration where he turns something minor into something major or something tenuous at best into a smoking gun that amuses me.
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Old 13th February 2019, 02:20 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I think there's a lot in that figure of speech, and the choice of it.
I'm not saying that it isn't a valid interpretation. I'm just saying that it's not clear that, were she privately asked about it, she'd reveal some dark, antisemitic beliefs. It may have been a very poor choice of words.

Now, if she has a history of such declarations, that would be different, but given that this is the only quote that's being trotted out, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.

Quote:
Yes. Why?
Just checking. I can't recall you ever voicing one.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I know. Classic TBD. It's his gross exaggeration where he turns something minor into something major or something tenuous at best into a smoking gun that amuses me.
Or vice-versa.
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Old 13th February 2019, 02:58 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The way they said it.
If you don't get that HOW you say something, the exact wording, is very important then you are pretty damn ignorant of the way things work.
I don't think OMar is an anti semite, but I think the way she worded it was very badly thought out, and she paid the consequences.

Surpised I have to explain this.
Because that is not the argument her detractors are making.

Saying she could have chosen better words or explained herself better is one thing. But people from both sides of the aisle are attacking her as an antisemite, demanded an apology, and are still calling for her resignation. Even after the statements of the likes of Lee Zeldin and the entire Republican party, including Kevin McCarthy, going on about George Soros last summer.

It is completely disingenuous. Plenty of prominent folks in Washington have talked about the influence of AIPAC. Plenty of prominent folks in Washington have said nasty, antisemitic, racist comments. Omar did the former, not the latter. And yet, the black Muslim woman is the only one getting crucified for it.
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Old 13th February 2019, 03:00 PM   #387
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Ah, the soft defense
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Old 13th February 2019, 03:19 PM   #388
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I am not inclined to be a fan of this Congresscritter, but she impressed me today. She sounded really nervous and hesitant when questioning Elliott Abrams about Nicaragua, but I did enjoy her balls and persistence in doing so. That guy has blood on his hands.
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Old 13th February 2019, 03:42 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I am not inclined to be a fan of this Congresscritter, but she impressed me today. She sounded really nervous and hesitant when questioning Elliott Abrams about Nicaragua, but I did enjoy her balls and persistence in doing so. That guy has blood on his hands.

Just saw this as well. Beautiful. Got the contempt from her that he deserves.
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Old 13th February 2019, 03:44 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
FOr once I have to agree with you.
Sadly, I am coming to the opinion that some on the left are just tone deaf when it comes to Anti Semitism.
They are so afraid of being labeled "Pro Israel" that they don't want to call out some obvious Anti Semitism.
I've spoken with actual left wing anti-semites. They generally go far beyond criticizing Israeli policy (There's much to criticize here, particularly for 2-state supporters such as herself), or stating that AIPAC uses money to aid it's increasingly pro-Likud stance via it's members (which AIPAC claims to do), and well into conspiracy theories such as Mossad being responsible for 9/11 and warned all the jews to stay out of the Twin Towers that day, and other such crap.

Well, and the usual "evil jews control banking and Hollywood" nonsense.

In short, the word "hypnotize" is doing a lot of work, particularly since she wrote that when Twitter still had a 140-character restriction, and there's nothing at all anti-semitic in what she's tweeted recently. Again, I suspect that this is largely because she's the first hijab wearing muslim black refugee elected to congress.

(and that's particularly true given that there was far less outrage when Dolt 45 tweeted to "@whitegenocidetm" who lived in "Jewmerica". Now that's some high-quality antisemitism right there!)

ETA: If anything, I'd say my biggest problem with her is that she's naive about Maduro - but I definitely don't want the current administration doing anything there involving the military, either for a different reason.

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Old 13th February 2019, 03:58 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I know. Classic TBD. It's his gross exaggeration where he turns something minor into something major or something tenuous at best into a smoking gun that amuses me.
I know. Classic.

Bit surprised that someone who talked about the Jewish lobby and said in this thread that he hates religion does not see that comment as anti-Semitic.

Cool cool
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Old 13th February 2019, 05:36 PM   #392
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Agreed Omar's being a defender of Maduro is more troubling from a practical viewpoint then the badly worded tweet that started this fuss,also agree military action in Venezuela would just be idiotic.
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Old 13th February 2019, 05:55 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I know. Classic.

Bit surprised that someone who talked about the Jewish lobby and said in this thread that he hates religion does not see that comment as anti-Semitic.

Cool cool
So again, what is AIPAC if not a Jewish lobby?

Most Jewish people I know are atheists. Go figure. They are cultural Jews.

But my guess is you don't understand that either.

I do hate religion, that is true. But I don't hate people that are religious. I don't hate people at all. Regardless of whether you believe in Yahweh, Yeshua, Moses, Allah or Thor. But the moment you use your superstition to mistreat or control others, you can go to hell.

Sadly, as Christopher Hitchens wrote, religion poisons EVERYTHING. It's superstitious mumbo jumbo designed to give some people power over others. If being against religious nonsense that has Christians, Muslims Jews etc killing others as they do so easily makes me bad, then I'm bad.

Give me the writings of Locke, Spinoza, Plato, Kant, Hobbes, Rousseau, Paine, Jefferson, Rawls and others. In NONE of these writings do they condemn people forvwho they love. None of my philosophers ever said we should stone others and take slaves.

Sadly, the Jews, Muslims and Christians never had a problem with such actions.
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Old 14th February 2019, 06:37 AM   #394
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Jewish writers are leaving "Forward" magazine in protest of the over-the-top attacks on Ilhan Omar.
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Old 14th February 2019, 07:15 AM   #395
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What specifically did Omar say in defense of Maduro? The only stuff I can find is opinion pieces from Fox News and Washington Examiner (so, ya, not really off to a great start) claiming this even though they only quote her as being critical of US intervention to install a favorable leader and instead deferring to a coalition led by Uraguay, the Vatican and Mexico.

she has even been pretty straight forward to how badly the government in Venezuela has failed the people.

That is hardly a defense of Maduro or the Chavez regime.
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Old 14th February 2019, 07:31 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
So again, what is AIPAC if not a Jewish lobby?
A pro-Israel lobby.

I've been told endlessly that antagonism towards Israel isn't antisemitic because Israel is just a country, it's not synonymous with Jews. It seems not everyone has gotten the message.
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Old 14th February 2019, 08:09 AM   #397
ponderingturtle
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If getting endorsements form Louis Farrakhan and David Duke means one should resign, then shouldn't Trump have resigned from the republican candidacy in 2016 when they were both endorsing him?
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Old 14th February 2019, 08:20 AM   #398
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
If getting endorsements form Louis Farrakhan and David Duke means one should resign, then shouldn't Trump have resigned from the republican candidacy in 2016 when they were both endorsing him?
It's true that an endorsement from a bad person shouldn't be automatically disqualifying, but Farrakhan never endorsed Trump.
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Old 14th February 2019, 08:25 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's true that an endorsement from a bad person shouldn't be automatically disqualifying, but Farrakhan never endorsed Trump.
If by endorsements were talking about supportive praise and not specifically official election endorsements:

https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...d-trump-220021
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Old 14th February 2019, 08:35 AM   #400
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
If by endorsements were talking about supportive praise and not specifically official election endorsements:

https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...d-trump-220021
That's not an endorsement, especially since he's said some extremely critical stuff about Trump as well.
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