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Tags anti-semitism charges , Ilhan Omar , Kevin McCarthy , Minnesota politics , Twitter incidents

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Old 11th February 2019, 04:11 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
A few hours after "apologizing" for her anti-Semitic remarks she retweets a thread making the same anti-Semitic remarks.

Say, totally sorry about my anti-Semitic comments about how Jews control all the money.
Now that we have THAT settled, here is a retweet of a "courageous" guy explaining how Jews control the world with money.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1095084754272243714

wow, what a scumbag
Shock, it is pretty clear that the story is ******** too.

https://twitter.com/NathanWurtzel/st...94002762825731

All those Jews look alike

What is shocking is the nitwit proved herself a liar by retweeting a thread that contained blatant lies.

Fantastic!

Last edited by The Big Dog; 11th February 2019 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:12 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Was that before or after their defense of Trump?
wait wait wait, did you just say that Linda Sarsour defended Trump?

bwhwhahahahahaaa!!!!
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:13 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Are you kidding?
No, I'm not. I'm really wondering why you picked the most uncharitable interpretation just because another poster used the term Jew gold.

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
And a long series of excuses for other anti-Semitic remarks.
Which other anti-semitic remarks? By Tesla? Where?

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Money is often used as an explanation for why policy can tilt away from voter preference.

But voters are strongly in favor of supporting Israel.
So am I. I am not, however, in favour of some of their policies and they should be pressured to cut it out.

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
A few hours after "apologizing" for her anti-Semitic remarks she retweets a thread making the same anti-Semitic remarks.

Say, totally sorry about my anti-Semitic comments about how Jews control all the money.
Now that we have THAT settled, here is a retweet of a "courageous" guy explaining how Jews control the world with money.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1095084754272243714

wow, what a scumbag
What anti-semitism?
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:14 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Amazing how we can switch to virtual throat slashing in one thread to casually agreeing in another in the space of a few minutes.
Not so amazing when both say reasonable things.
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:50 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"Democratic" is the entire system of government. It feels weird to me to use it as describe just one party.

It's the "Pro-life / Pro-choice" nonsense. Using an extremely broad term to apply to only one side of a particular issue.
Surely everybody in the US government is a republican, too?
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:51 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
No, I'm not. I'm really wondering why you picked the most uncharitable interpretation just because another poster used the term Jew gold.

Which other anti-semitic remarks? By Tesla? Where?
Thanks Belz for defending me. I work hard at trying to be fair.

I don't know this particular Congressperson very well. I admit I'm skeptical of her motives when it comes to Israel given the open animosity Muslims and Jews have for each other. That said, taking her comments at face value they were without question biased, but i really don't believe it is wrong to question motives and that certainly shouldn't be equated to a type of racism.
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Old 11th February 2019, 05:05 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Yeah, it's a thing, but I'm pretty sure it's a fringe thing.
I'm a lot less sure.
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Old 11th February 2019, 05:45 PM   #288
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I think three people are grateful to Omar:
It takes the spotlight off the Governor, Lt. Governor, and Attonrey General of Virginia for at least one day.
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Old 11th February 2019, 06:17 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Thanks Belz for defending me. I work hard at trying to be fair.
Not to sound like an ass but I'm not defending you so much as reflexively reacting to this sort of blatant and malicious misrepresentation, of which I'm often the target of. Some people seem utterly unable to even allow that others might not have an opinions that's all on one side or the other, and they attack what they don't understand.
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Old 11th February 2019, 06:49 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Not to sound like an ass but I'm not defending you so much as reflexively reacting to this sort of blatant and malicious misrepresentation, of which I'm often the target of. Some people seem utterly unable to even allow that others might not have an opinions that's all on one side or the other, and they attack what they don't understand.
Still, I appreciate it.
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Old 11th February 2019, 06:58 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Still, I appreciate it.
Ok, but I'm still an ass.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:22 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And why is it so powerful? Because of all that Jew gold? Or because voters actually support Israel?

Hint:
The real reason is the latter, but Omar is claiming it's the former.
Interesting framing with the whole "Jew gold" thing.



https://theintercept.com/2019/02/11/...y-documentary/

Quote:
In November, Electronic Intifada obtained and published the four-part series, but it did so during the week of the midterm elections, and the documentary did not get a lot of attention then.

In it, leaders of the pro-Israel lobby speak openly about how they use money to influence the political process, in ways so blunt that if the comments were made by critics, theyíd be charged with anti-Semitism.
Quote:
David Ochs, founder of HaLev, which helps send young people to AIPACís annual conference, described for the reporter how AIPAC and its donors organize fundraisers outside the official umbrella of the organization, so that the money doesnít show up on disclosures as coming specifically from AIPAC.
Quote:
Without spending money, Ochs argues, the pro-Israel lobby isnít able to enact its agenda. ďCongressmen and senators donít do anything unless you pressure them. They kick the can down the road, unless you pressure them, and the only way to do that is with money,Ē he explains.
That's basically all lobbying everywhere.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:36 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Surely everybody in the US government is a republican, too?
/nitpick Working within a system does not necessarily mean supporting that system. Socialists can run businesses, one can be against democracy or republican systems and still run for office in order to change/mitigate them, Republicans specifically trash government working and still run for office, etc.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:57 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Interesting framing with the whole "Jew gold" thing.

Electronic Intifada? indeed.

When you ask donors for money, what message do you use? That their money is effective. You arenít going to tell them anything else, regardless of the truth, because thatís shooting your fundraising efforts in the foot. But the effectiveness of money in politics is largely overstated. Itís still always votes that ultimately count, and when public opinion leans sharply and consistently in one direct, lobbying for that becomes infinitely easier. Voters, not money, is why the NRA is so powerful. Money can help rally voters to a cause they already believe in, but it doesnít get people to believe in a cause in the first place.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:03 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Say's the person who thinks "Jew gold" is the source of their influence.
"Jew gold" isn't the source of their influence. Their ability to donate money to politicians who support their policy and withhold it from those that do not is their source of influence.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:09 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
OK, so I am a middle class, suburban, white guy and I like to think I am up to date on all my code words and stereotypes ...for research of course... but, I have never heard "Benjamin" being a slur for Jews. Is that really a thing?

Because a 37 year old quoting Diddy really doesn't strike me as odd.
Never heard Benjamin as a slur for Jews. I've heard people call $100 bills "Bens" because Ben Franklin is on the bill.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:11 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
That may be true of some small segment of society. The rest of us are largely controlled by the idea that every country has a right to exist.
Small and insignificant segment of society. The idea that US foreign policy toward Israel is informed by end of time prophecy is kind of absurd.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:35 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
"Jew gold" isn't the source of their influence.

Yeah, I absolutely know that. You need to tell that to the guy that agreed it was the source of their influence.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:36 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think three people are grateful to Omar:
It takes the spotlight off the Governor, Lt. Governor, and Attonrey General of Virginia for at least one day.
You forgot Candace Owens, who said something far more out-of-bounds about Adolph Hitler recently - namely that his biggest mistake was becoming a globalist (he didn't - and this word is often abused to mean "the jews") rather than, you know, the holocaust.
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Old 11th February 2019, 09:19 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Small and insignificant segment of society. The idea that US foreign policy toward Israel is informed by end of time prophecy is kind of absurd.
They could be fibbing to pollsters, but:
Quote:
By the year 2050, 41% of Americans believe that Jesus Christ definitely (23%) or probably (18%) will have returned to earth.

From Pew


Do the politicians believe it? I don't know but a lot of constituents do.
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Old 11th February 2019, 09:49 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Yeah, I absolutely know that. You need to tell that to the guy that agreed it was the source of their influence.
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Say's the person who thinks "Jew gold" is the source of their influence.
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I get it.

My point was that politicians do things for two reasons. They believe in them, they are paid to support them or both. And it is impossible to know which is which.

Now if people want to eliminate money from politics then we could eliminate that consideration. But alas, money is Mother's milk in the political sphere.
This should about clear up this little spat of bickering.
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Old 11th February 2019, 10:01 PM   #302
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I love Ilhan. I think she is one of the greatest rising stars in Congress and I hope that one day she becomes a Senator at the very least.


Anyone that thinks she is actually anti-Semitic is ....... I would be punished for saying the things I'm thinking. Needless to say you are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.


I hang on her every tweet. I've followed her from the start. This whole thing with so, so many idiots thinking that a clear reference to bribery strikes extra hard because I have yet to see any of her tweets where idiots don't pop up asking her to denounce this or that Imam from who knows where saying something provocative. She's been forced by idiots on the right to answer for every little thing Islam does from the very start.



And now....she is being forced to make an apology she did not need to give because even more idiots decided to make an issue out of this.


I'm so pissed you have no idea. I've been fighting the urge to punch a wall all day.
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Old 11th February 2019, 10:21 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I love Ilhan. I think she is one of the greatest rising stars in Congress and I hope that one day she becomes a Senator at the very least.


Anyone that thinks she is actually anti-Semitic is ....... I would be punished for saying the things I'm thinking. Needless to say you are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.


I hang on her every tweet. I've followed her from the start. This whole thing with so, so many idiots thinking that a clear reference to bribery strikes extra hard because I have yet to see any of her tweets where idiots don't pop up asking her to denounce this or that Imam from who knows where saying something provocative. She's been forced by idiots on the right to answer for every little thing Islam does from the very start.



And now....she is being forced to make an apology she did not need to give because even more idiots decided to make an issue out of this.


I'm so pissed you have no idea. I've been fighting the urge to punch a wall all day.
Seems reasonable...
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Old 12th February 2019, 12:05 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I hate to sound like a hack for Deborah Lisstadt, but her new book "Anti Semitism" she goes, in detail into what she calls the "Love Israel, but Hate Jews" mentality where some virulent anti semites support Israel on some levels.
It's OK - if you were a hack for her, you'd probably be able to spell her name correctly.
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Old 12th February 2019, 12:11 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Electronic Intifada? indeed.

When you ask donors for money, what message do you use? That their money is effective. You arenít going to tell them anything else, regardless of the truth, because thatís shooting your fundraising efforts in the foot. But the effectiveness of money in politics is largely overstated. Itís still always votes that ultimately count, and when public opinion leans sharply and consistently in one direct, lobbying for that becomes infinitely easier. Voters, not money, is why the NRA is so powerful. Money can help rally voters to a cause they already believe in, but it doesnít get people to believe in a cause in the first place.
You are completely wrong:
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
Quote:
Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
Quote:
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organised groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.
Quote:
When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organised interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the US political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favour policy change, they generally do not get it.
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Old 12th February 2019, 12:41 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Interesting framing with the whole "Jew gold" thing.



https://theintercept.com/2019/02/11/...y-documentary/

That's basically all lobbying everywhere.
Stop the presses! Lobbyists report that their efforts are highly successful and depend on lots of money.
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Old 12th February 2019, 12:42 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Stop the presses! Lobbyists report that their efforts are highly successful and depend on lots of money.
Glad to know you also disagree with this:

Quote:
But the effectiveness of money in politics is largely overstated.
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Old 12th February 2019, 12:43 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I love Ilhan. I think she is one of the greatest rising stars in Congress and I hope that one day she becomes a Senator at the very least.


Anyone that thinks she is actually anti-Semitic is ....... I would be punished for saying the things I'm thinking. Needless to say you are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.


I hang on her every tweet. I've followed her from the start. This whole thing with so, so many idiots thinking that a clear reference to bribery strikes extra hard because I have yet to see any of her tweets where idiots don't pop up asking her to denounce this or that Imam from who knows where saying something provocative. She's been forced by idiots on the right to answer for every little thing Islam does from the very start.



And now....she is being forced to make an apology she did not need to give because even more idiots decided to make an issue out of this.


I'm so pissed you have no idea. I've been fighting the urge to punch a wall all day.
The first step is admitting you're a twitter-holic.
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Old 12th February 2019, 01:01 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
They could be fibbing to pollsters, but:


From Pew
Believing Jesus will return by 2050 isn't the same as believing that Israel must exist so it can be destroyed for this to happen.

Quote:
Do the politicians believe it? I don't know but a lot of constituents do.
But it's still absurd to think that end of times prophecies are taken seriously enough by anybody to inform US foreign policy towards Israel. It's absurd to even think that Christian Zionists have greater influence on US policy towards Israel than Jewish Zionists do.
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Old 12th February 2019, 02:50 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The first step is admitting you're a twitter-holic.

Can the higher power I must surrender myself to be a can of soup that I believe to have created the universe?
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Old 12th February 2019, 03:00 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
/nitpick Working within a system does not necessarily mean supporting that system. Socialists can run businesses, one can be against democracy or republican systems and still run for office in order to change/mitigate them, Republicans specifically trash government working and still run for office, etc.
Yes, I understand this. My comment was in the context of the post that it was replying to, which implied that every US politician believed in democracy. That's just as untrue, but for the sake of casual conversation, it'll do.

Given things like Gerrymandering, I'd actually be prepared to bet that a higher proportion of people from either party are republicans than democrats.
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Old 12th February 2019, 03:58 AM   #312
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I suppose what has really sent me over the edge with this is that the idea that Ilhan must be anti-Semitic came right out of the freaking gate. For months she has been barraged with hate tweets demanding she say she doesn't hate Jews. And, time and time again, she assures people that she hates no one for who they are. And I believe her.



I mean she actually is one of the furtherest left people in Congress. That is why I like her so much. If you had challenged me to list house members that I was most sure are not bigots in any way she would be at the top of my list. So to see someone I know to be so inclusive and warm hearted accused of this awfulness based on nothing more than some weird construction in people's minds that any allusion to Israel and money is a dog whistle for the very old trope of Jews being greedy control freaks is extremely upsetting.
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Old 12th February 2019, 04:18 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
How exactly is it a reference to the "Jews control the money trope"? I read it as "lobbyists use money to influence policy". Just because the lobbyist group in question happens to represent a faction in the Israeli government makes this anti-Semitic?

If I say oil lobbyists use their money to suppress environmental protection laws, is that anti-Semitic?

If I say the NRA uses money to stop gun control legislation, is that anti-Semitic?

If I say Saudi Arabia uses money to get the US government to keep sending weapons and logistical support in its proxy war with Iran in Yemen, is that anti-Semitic?
You can only criticise buying influence when it isn't jews doing it duh.
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Old 12th February 2019, 05:55 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I suppose what has really sent me over the edge
Travis. You weren't sent over the edge. You jumped off the edge, years ago.
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Old 12th February 2019, 06:53 AM   #315
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Travis. Go outside.
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Old 12th February 2019, 07:02 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Believing Jesus will return by 2050 isn't the same as believing that Israel must exist so it can be destroyed for this to happen.

Yes that is not necessarily true, but in the US those two views are highly coincident. Note that I'm referring to people who hold the specific view that Jesus will return in their lifetime or nearly so. Those that hold the vaguer view that Jesus will return at some indefinite time are less likely to believe the that Israel must exist before the Second Coming.
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Old 12th February 2019, 07:03 AM   #317
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If Ilhan was wrong about the relationship between money and politics, that doesn't make her an anti-semite. Even under the most charitable interpretation, this line of argument is just a red herring.
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Old 12th February 2019, 07:12 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Yes that is not necessarily true, but in the US those two views are highly coincident. Note that I'm referring to people who hold the specific view that Jesus will return in their lifetime or nearly so. Those that hold the vaguer view that Jesus will return at some indefinite time are less likely to believe the that Israel must exist before the Second Coming.
I wonder how many people support Trump because they believe him to be the Antichrist, and therefore necessary?
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Old 12th February 2019, 07:58 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I wonder how many people support Trump because they believe him to be the Antichrist, and therefore necessary?
I don't think that's a common view. While it might be true that they think the Anti-Christ is "necessary" I think they also believe it would be necessary to oppose him anyway.

ETA: I think they would describe the anti-Christ more as "inevitable" than "necessary".
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Last edited by RecoveringYuppy; 12th February 2019 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 12th February 2019, 08:24 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I wonder how many people support Trump because they believe him to be the Antichrist, and therefore necessary?
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