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Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Mueller investigation , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 15th April 2019, 06:58 AM   #3601
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
CNN reported on comments Trump made when he first "asked" the Russians to find Clinton's missing emails.


That doesn't seem like joking. At other times, a link was posted here previously, he admitted to an interviewer he wasn't joking.
I don't understand why the news media still jumps through hoops trying to explain Trump's comments. There is no reason they shouldn't just report he's lying.

They say it in articles like how many lies Trump has told now. I'd like to see them get a bit more honest and come out and say it.

Headline: Trump Lies About Wikileaks
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Old 15th April 2019, 07:20 AM   #3602
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The big news organizations are made up of journalists and business people. I've never been a journalist but I have been in private business. This is what I think my opinion would be if I worked for a big news organization and we had a staff conference about coverage of president Trump.

Quote:
I'm not suggesting you fail to report news -- if Trump says he didn't know anything about WikiLeaks, by all means report it -- but lets be a little careful how we characterize it. This guy has made it plain he is out to get us. He says we publish and broadcast fake news for political purposes. That we are the enemy of the American public, that we're failing financially and we deserve to fail. This guy's the president, there's all kinds of ways Trump can retaliate against us. In ways that will not be obvious to the public. In ways that may not even be obvious to us until we're a lot further down the road. I'm not suggesting we give the president a free pass, just that we avoid needlessly making the situation even worse than it is, and it's already terrible.
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Old 15th April 2019, 08:03 AM   #3603
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't understand why the news media still jumps through hoops trying to explain Trump's comments. There is no reason they shouldn't just report he's lying.
It's times like this where I think I should grow a beard, so that I can stroke it and allow myself a small, evil smile.

Or . . . maybe we take him at his word.

Quote:
They say it in articles like how many lies Trump has told now. I'd like to see them get a bit more honest and come out and say it.

Headline: Trump Lies About Wikileaks
Or:
Headline: Trump Has Now Forgotten Wikileaks

In further evidence of his rapid mental decline, Trump no longer has clear knowledge of Wikileaks, in contrast to his extensive references to it during his 2016 campaign.
Coming in the wake of other recent lapses such as forgetting the names of CEOs while talking to them, forgetting that he'd said Mexico would pay for the wall, forgetting his promise to contribute $1M to charity if Elizabeth Warren took a DNA test, and numerous similar incidents, this latest failure paints a grim picture of the President's deteriorating mental state.
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Old 15th April 2019, 09:43 AM   #3605
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The big news organizations are made up of journalists and business people. I've never been a journalist but I have been in private business. This is what I think my opinion would be if I worked for a big news organization and we had a staff conference about coverage of president Trump.
Show don't tell. Report what he says about WikiLeaks now and then quote him from 2016. No dependent clauses. You don't even need to say "This contradicts an earlier statement ..." That stuff is chaff.

A semi-famous relative of mine once said (slight paraphrase) that an editor's job is to separate the wheat from the chaff, then print the chaff. Actually it was more like:

An editor's job is to separate the wheat from the chaff, then see to it that the chaff gets printed.


I like my paraphrase, pithier, but I can't in good conscience misquote him.

Last edited by Minoosh; 15th April 2019 at 09:49 AM. Reason: Pith
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Old 15th April 2019, 10:34 AM   #3606
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The news coverage of Trump's WikiLeak 'narrative' was characterized by a poster here as jumping through hoops to "explain" Trump's comments about WikiLeaks instead of just reporting "he's lying." I wasn't too familiar with the coverage of Trump's statement -- in the context of his reaction to the arrest of Julian Assange -- but look at the lead paragraph from last Thursday's USA Today below:
Quote:
WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump, who declared "I love WikiLeaks" during the 2016 presidential campaign, refused Thursday to comment on the arrest of the website's founder Julian Assange in London. USA Today link
Or the Salt lake Tribune:
Quote:
Washington • President Donald Trump, who repeatedly praised WikiLeaks for releasing damaging material on Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential race, on Thursday sought to disavow his past enthusiasm following the arrest of the organization’s founder, Julian Assange. Salt Lake Tribune link
USA Today and the Salt Lake Tribune are not exactly East Coast Elites. If the complaint is they don't label Trump a "liar" I think that's unfair. They demonstrate that he is, but stop short of calling him a liar and I think that's just as well.

For me, the real problem is, Trump has done this type of thing over and over, yet these stories are ignored by a fairly sizable number of his supporters. Obviously they don't care. We have a serial liar in the White House and his supporters don't care. They'd rather talk about something that happened thirty years ago.

Sad!
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Old 15th April 2019, 11:12 AM   #3607
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I'll take a wild stab at it... free and fair elections, multi-party democracy, freedom of the press, freedom of speech, respect for international borders. That sort of stuff.
Not using WMDs to murder people
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Old 15th April 2019, 11:38 AM   #3608
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Trump Tweets

The Mueller Report, which was written by 18 Angry Democrats who also happen to be Trump Haters (and Clinton Supporters), should have focused on the people who SPIED on my 2016 Campaign, and others who fabricated the whole Russia Hoax. That is, never forget, the crime.....

....Since there was no Collusion, why was there an Investigation in the first place! Answer - Dirty Cops, Dems and Crooked Hillary!
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Old 15th April 2019, 11:39 AM   #3609
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Trump Tweets

THEY SPIED ON MY CAMPAIGN (We will never forget)!
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Old 15th April 2019, 11:39 AM   #3610
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
It's times like this where I think I should grow a beard, so that I can stroke it and allow myself a small, evil smile.

Or . . . maybe we take him at his word.



Or:
Headline: Trump Has Now Forgotten Wikileaks

In further evidence of his rapid mental decline, Trump no longer has clear knowledge of Wikileaks, in contrast to his extensive references to it during his 2016 campaign.
Coming in the wake of other recent lapses such as forgetting the names of CEOs while talking to them, forgetting that he'd said Mexico would pay for the wall, forgetting his promise to contribute $1M to charity if Elizabeth Warren took a DNA test, and numerous similar incidents, this latest failure paints a grim picture of the President's deteriorating mental state.
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Old 15th April 2019, 11:46 AM   #3611
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The news coverage of Trump's WikiLeak 'narrative' was characterized by a poster here as jumping through hoops to "explain" Trump's comments about WikiLeaks instead of just reporting "he's lying." I wasn't too familiar with the coverage of Trump's statement -- in the context of his reaction to the arrest of Julian Assange -- but look at the lead paragraph from last Thursday's USA Today below:


Or the Salt lake Tribune:


USA Today and the Salt Lake Tribune are not exactly East Coast Elites. If the complaint is they don't label Trump a "liar" I think that's unfair. They demonstrate that he is, but stop short of calling him a liar and I think that's just as well.

For me, the real problem is, Trump has done this type of thing over and over, yet these stories are ignored by a fairly sizable number of his supporters. Obviously they don't care. We have a serial liar in the White House and his supporters don't care. They'd rather talk about something that happened thirty years ago.

Sad!
Both of those news stories are watered down with careful wording. They wouldn't have to use the word, liar, to be more precise.
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Old 15th April 2019, 12:07 PM   #3612
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

THEY SPIED ON MY CAMPAIGN (We will never forget)!
THEY PEED IN MY CHEERIOS! SAD!
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Old 15th April 2019, 05:34 PM   #3613
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Has Trump ever owned up to be "just joking" about these things?

I don't think he has, because he is sincere when he says them. It's his apologists that make up the "he's just joking" lie.
Trump said he was being sarcastic when asking Russia to find the emails. Of course, he sure didn't say it was a joke when Tur asked if it gave him pause to request such a thing.
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Old 16th April 2019, 12:41 AM   #3614
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It was already really, really hard to trust Barr and his "summary of the principle conclusions." Now, it's impossible.
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Old 16th April 2019, 03:20 AM   #3615
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A Justice Department spokeswoman has said the redacted report will be released to Congress and the public on Thursday
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Old 16th April 2019, 03:47 AM   #3616
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Bad sign.
Congress should definitely have a more detailed report than the public gets.
Expect massive redactions.
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Old 16th April 2019, 04:11 AM   #3617
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Bad sign.
Congress should definitely have a more detailed report than the public gets.
Expect massive redactions.
Expect all the pages to be entirely black.
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Old 16th April 2019, 04:14 AM   #3618
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Expect all the pages to be entirely black.
The redactions are going to be colour-coded, apparently.
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Old 16th April 2019, 04:21 AM   #3619
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Expect all the pages to be entirely black.
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The redactions are going to be colour-coded, apparently.

Black is the color for stuff that might be embarrassing to Trump.

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Old 16th April 2019, 04:27 AM   #3620
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The redactions are going to be colour-coded, apparently.
This means Trump did the redactions with crayon and didn't want just black. There isn't an actual color code, he just wanted to use pretty colors.
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Old 16th April 2019, 04:29 AM   #3621
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
This means Trump did the redactions with crayon and didn't want just black.
Damn! I wanted to post something like that.
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Old 16th April 2019, 07:27 AM   #3622
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Trump Tweets

A must read, Andy McCarthy’s column today, “Dirty dealings of dirt devils who concocted Trump-Russia probe.” The greatest Scam in political history. If the Mainstream Media were honest, which they are not, this story would be bigger and more important than Watergate. Someday!

No Collusion - No Obstruction!
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Old 16th April 2019, 09:08 AM   #3623
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
We have to accept a bedrock level of "We'll have to trust the voters to... like not elect a total manchild psychopath" or the whole systems falls apart.

Checks and balances were (as it looks to me) put into place to keep a... normal President from overreaching.

An engaged voter base is our check and balance on tyrants, not the other branches of government.
For the presidency, where there is no possible recall, four years is a long time. Are you actually saying that all the verbiage on "checks and balances" and the three separate branches of the government are nonsense? That seem rather extreme and kinda Bobbish.

If you mean that the ULTIMATE check/balance is the voting booth, then I can concur.


***ETA: Didn't realize there were four more pages and that the post I'm responding to is from four days ago.
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Old 16th April 2019, 09:51 AM   #3624
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The redactions are going to be colour-coded, apparently.
I'm expecting that key individuals and threads are going to be fractured among color categories, in order to further obfuscate the issue and redact more than he might otherwise get away with. Here a little peripheral third party, there a little counterintelligence, each individual piece of it needing to be fought for separately. It will be a veritable rainbow of treason.
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Old 16th April 2019, 10:28 AM   #3625
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
For the presidency, where there is no possible recall, four years is a long time. Are you actually saying that all the verbiage on "checks and balances" and the three separate branches of the government are nonsense? That seem rather extreme and kinda Bobbish.

If you mean that the ULTIMATE check/balance is the voting booth, then I can concur.


***ETA: Didn't realize there were four more pages and that the post I'm responding to is from four days ago.
In a thread like this, you miss a day, you miss a lot!

Or

You could come back in a month and pick right up from the current point without really having missed anything.
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Old 16th April 2019, 10:45 AM   #3626
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
In a thread like this, you miss a day, you miss a lot!

Or

You could come back in a month and pick right up from the current point without really having missed anything.
There are a small handful of significant events here:

- The start of the investigation
- Each indictment along the way
- The end of the investigation and the filing of the report
- The review and redaction of the report
- The publication of the report

Discussion of each of these events gets to the marrow in about a day. Everything else is re-hashing or filler.
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Old 16th April 2019, 01:57 PM   #3627
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Trump Tweets (again)

No Collusion - No Obstruction!
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Old 16th April 2019, 04:21 PM   #3628
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
There are a small handful of significant events here:

- The start of the investigation
- Each indictment along the way
- The end of the investigation and the filing of the report
- The review and redaction of the report
- The publication of the report

Discussion of each of these events gets to the marrow in about a day. Everything else is re-hashing or filler.
Good breakdown.
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Old 16th April 2019, 04:23 PM   #3629
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This thread could be composed of as much as 80% filler.
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Old 16th April 2019, 04:34 PM   #3630
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
This thread could be composed of as much as 80% filler.
I don't think it's anywhere near that low. Captain Swoop reposting tweets, and other member reacting, has to account for at least 50% of the thread by now.
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Old 16th April 2019, 05:16 PM   #3631
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Maybe when you're President of the United States, you shouldn't make silly jokes all the time. Especially when you use said joking MO as a universal get-out-of-jail-free-card to excuse all the times you say something you genuenly shouldn't.
Who says he doesn't have a sense of humour?
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Old 16th April 2019, 05:21 PM   #3632
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

THEY SPIED ON MY CAMPAIGN (We will never forget)!
Ok Donny. Time to put the phone down, back of slowly, call someone for help, sit down, take deep breaths
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Old 16th April 2019, 06:10 PM   #3633
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They SPIED ON MY CAMPAIGN (but we have no evidence of it)!
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Old 17th April 2019, 03:36 AM   #3634
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

A must read, Andy McCarthy’s column today, “Dirty dealings of dirt devils who concocted Trump-Russia probe.”...
“Dirty dealings of dirt devils who concocted Trump-Russia probe” was not the title of Andrew 'Andy' McCarthy's column, despite Donnie putting it in quotes. Guess he was just joking?

The column appeared in the New York Post. Not really worth reading. Right off the bat, first paragraph, McCarthy accuses the Obama administration of "spying on" candidate Trump. His evidence? William Barr.
Quote:
In Senate testimony last week, Attorney General William Barr used the word “spying” to refer to the Obama administration, um, spying on the Trump campaign. Of course, fainting spells ensued, with the media-Democrat complex in meltdown. Former FBI Director Jim Comey tut-tutted that he was confused by Barr’s comments, since the FBI’s “surveillance” had been authorized by a court.
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Old 17th April 2019, 05:04 AM   #3635
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Trump Tweets

Wow! FBI made 11 payments to Fake Dossier’s discredited author, Trump hater Christopher Steele.
@OANN @JudicialWatch
The Witch Hunt has been a total fraud on your President and the American people! It was brought to you by Dirty Cops, Crooked Hillary and the DNC.
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Old 17th April 2019, 05:27 AM   #3636
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The Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity try again the reach Trump concerning the dubious nature of the "Potemkin Village Indictment".

Originally Posted by VIPS
[...] A leak from within the CIA, published on March 31, 2017 by WikiLeaks as part of the so-called “Vault 7” disclosures, exposed a cyber tool called “Marble,” which was used during 2016 for“obfuscation” (CIA’s word). This tool can be used to conduct a forensic attribution double game (aka a false-flag operation); it included test samples in Arabic, Chinese, Farsi, Korean, and Russian. Washington Post reporter Ellen Nakashima, to her credit, immediately penned an informative article on the Marble cyber-tool, under the caching (and accurate) headline “WikiLeaks’ latest release of CIA cyber-tools could blow the cover on agency hacking operations.” That was apparently before Nakashima “got the memo.” Mainstream media have otherwise avoided like the plague any mention of Marble.

Mr. President, we do not know if CIA’s Marble, or tools like it, played some kind of role in the campaign to blame Russia for hacking the DNC. Nor do we know how candid the denizens of CIA’s Directorate of Digital Innovation have been with the White House — or with former Director Pompeo — on this touchy issue. Since it is still quite relevant, we will repeat below a paragraph included in our July 2017 Memorandum to you under the sub-heading “Putin and the Technology:”

We also do not know if you have discussed cyber issues in any detail with President Putin. In his interview with NBC’s Megyn Kelly, he seemed quite willing – perhaps even eager – to address issues related to the kind of cyber tools revealed in the Vault 7 disclosures, if only to indicate he has been briefed on them. Putin pointed out that today’s technology enables hacking to be “masked and camouflaged to an extent that no one can understand the origin” [of the hack] … And, vice versa, it is possible to set up any entity or any individual that everyone will think that they are the exact source of that attack. Hackers may be anywhere,” he said. “There may be hackers, by the way, in the United States who very craftily and professionally passed the buck to Russia. Can’t you imagine such a scenario? … I can.”

As we told Attorney General Barr five weeks ago, we consider Mueller’s findings fundamentally flawed on the forensics side and ipso factoincomplete. We also criticized Mueller for failing to interview willing witnesses with direct knowledge, like WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange. [...]
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Old 17th April 2019, 07:55 AM   #3637
W.D.Clinger
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
This thread could be composed of as much as 80% filler.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't think it's anywhere near that low. Captain Swoop reposting tweets, and other member reacting, has to account for at least 50% of the thread by now.
I don't think members who post useful information should be blamed for posts that react to that information.

Belz, Skeptic Ginger, Ziggurat, acbytesla, theprestige, Childlike Empress, BobTheCoward, and TheBigDog accounted for more than 30% of the 3636 posts in part 5 (as of my calculations). Not all of their posts are reactions to tweets/statements/news, but you might be able to get up to 50% if you take the time to count such posts by all posters, instead of looking only at those who post most frequently.

My list above omits several prolific posters, including Captain Swoop, whose posts I often find helpful precisely because they report tweets/statements/news instead of repeating their own predictable opinions of recent tweets/statements/news. I myself would call out Stacko for his notably high proportion of informative posts.

Such opinions are of course subjective. I am not accusing anyone of sharing mine.
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Old 17th April 2019, 08:49 AM   #3638
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
USA Today and the Salt Lake Tribune are not exactly East Coast Elites.
The Tribune story comes from the Washington Post, and USA Today is more elite than you'd think.

Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
For me, the real problem is, Trump has done this type of thing over and over, yet these stories are ignored by a fairly sizable number of his supporters. Obviously they don't care. We have a serial liar in the White House and his supporters don't care. They'd rather talk about something that happened thirty years ago.

Sad!
I think that conservatives and sometimes critics like me are responding to the way these stories are framed. Look for elaborate paraphrasing of off-the-cuff exchanges. One of the stories says, "Trump sought to disavow his past enthusiasm." But when you look at what he actually says, it's completely bland. He just doesn't seem to have much of an opinion. He didn't say Assange is getting a raw deal, or that Assange is scum, or really anything very interesting at all.

The MSM takes the off-the-cuff lies more personally than the general public, because he has lied to the faces of many members of the media, and they HATE being lied to. But "Trump sought to disavow his past enthusiasm" is at least an exaggeration, or projection. He said a bunch of nice things about Wikileaks in 2016, and now he doesn't have much of an opinion on Assange. That's it. He hasn't lied to the faces of most American people, so they see a level of weaseling that doesn't scandalize them.

ETA: Just checked which thread this was and it doesn't have much to do with Mueller. Sorry.

Last edited by Minoosh; 17th April 2019 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 17th April 2019, 09:02 AM   #3639
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I think that conservatives and sometimes critics like me are responding to the way these stories are framed. Look for elaborate paraphrasing of off-the-cuff exchanges.
I think "off-the-cuff" is a little misleading as a phrase. Politicians with a decent sized staff rarely respond simply in the moment with no preparation, especially to one of the major news items of the day.

If a President is going to encounter press, that will always be preceded by a conversation with some very well paid people saying something like "Assange has been arrested. You've been on record saying some very positive things about wikileaks. They're going to ask you how you feel about wikileaks now. Here are a couple possibilities for how we can spin this"

In fact, given that conversations about extradition have likely been happening behind the scenes for a long time, that conversation probably happened very well in advance of the arrest.

I can guarantee you he's been advised on how to respond to a question like that about wikileaks.
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Old 17th April 2019, 09:10 AM   #3640
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I think "off-the-cuff" is a little misleading as a phrase. Politicians with a decent sized staff rarely respond simply in the moment with no preparation, especially to one of the major news items of the day.
Politicians with a decent sized staff and a willingness to listen to them don't tweet about airborne water tankers while Notre Dame is burning, to be fair. (Not that Trump is the only pol making ill-considered statements these days, though he's obviously the most prominent and I'd say most prolific.)
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