National Emergency - Page 6

CapelDodger · 15th February 2019, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Second Point: Trump's vanity project would spend 90% of the border security budget in an attempt to fix less than 10% of the problem, meanwhile, the place where 90% of the problems are gets cuts and lacks resources.

Let's not forget that Trump has already announced the Trump Wall as 100% effective, so once it's built there'll be no need for anything more. No going back to investigate and ameliorate actual problems and solutions because there will no longer be any problems. Trump has said so, and so it shall be.

Distracted1 · 15th February 2019, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

Let's not forget that Trump has already announced the Trump Wall as 100% effective, so once it's built there'll be no need for anything more. No going back to investigate and ameliorate actual problems and solutions because there will no longer be any problems. Trump has said so, and so it shall be.

Maybe we should believe him. After all, he has already saved us from a second Great Depression and catastrophic war with NK.

Polaris · 15th February 2019, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by chrispy

How about all of his critics being liars. All of the criticism of the border wall being lies. "Liars to the right of me, liars to the left of me..."

"Here I am, stuck in the middle with GRU."

Originally Posted by Apathia

And taken together they spell "CANT." Sorry Donald, you can't have your Great Wall of Trump.

Kind of a shame Utah isn't further south.

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Relax. Think of it more like a drinking game.

We're getting boofed all right...

Captain_Swoop · 16th February 2019, 02:15 AM

Trump ripped for plan to steal military funds for his wall by GOP Armed Forces Committee members

Quote:

“Republican members of the Armed Services Committee and the Appropriations Committee are probably going to set themselves on fire over this,” former Rep. Charlie Dent (R-PA), who chaired the House Military Construction-VA Appropriations Subcommittee, said on CNN, Politico notes. “This is just a slap in the face to Congress and their power of the purse.”

Quote:

Rep. Mike Turner of Ohio, the top Republican on the House Armed Services Strategic Forces Subcommittee, called Trump’s move a ‘dangerous precedent’ and warned “securing our border should not be done at the expense of previously funded military construction projects,

Quote:

Turner and four other House Republicans — Richard Hudson of North Carolina, Tom Cole of Oklahoma, Chris Collins of New York and Doug Lamborn of Colorado — warned Trump against siphoning off military construction funds in a letter last week, citing “aging infrastructure challenges which undermine the readiness and lethality” of the military.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/gop...ary-funds-wall

Craig4 · 16th February 2019, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Trump ripped for plan to steal military funds for his wall by GOP Armed Forces Committee members

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/gop...ary-funds-wall

The important point the thing in the Whitehouse might be forgetting here is, those construction projects are supposed to happen in someone's district. There's only one Republican congressional district on the border.

Belz... · 16th February 2019, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I think Pence would be a danger in a different way, but I don't know that he'd burn the world down to make a buck, like Trump seems to be eager to do.

For all I know, he might destroy it just to bring Jesus back.

Tero · 16th February 2019, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Analysis: weak rambling (though not as feeble minded as I had him)
A Weak and Rambling President Declares a Fake National Emergency

“It would have been great to have done it earlier. But I was a little new to the job, a little new to the profession. And we had a little disappointment for the first year and a half. People that should have stepped up did not step up. But we’re stepping up now.” Take that, Paul Ryan!

This official unveiling of the former House Speaker as Trump’s 2020 whipping boy didn’t come as a surprise. Neither did the declaration of a national emergency. Trump has been threatening to make this move for months, and Mitch McConnell, the Majority Leader in the Senate, had announced his intentions from the Senate floor on Thursday afternoon. Earlier on Thursday, according to a tick-tock by the Washington Post, Trump was still threatening to veto the bipartisan spending deal that allotted $1.375 billion...

....Trump dodged the question and called CNN “fake news.” The next questioner, Playboy’s Brian Karem, followed up Acosta’s question and asked Trump to say where he gets his figures. “I get my numbers from a lot of sources, like Homeland Security, primarily,” Trump replied. “And the numbers that I have from Homeland Security are a disaster.”

...used to be a saying: “Let Reagan be Reagan.” In the Trump Administration such a statement would be entirely redundant. The President lets it all hang out: the incoherence, the fabrications, the mendacity, the raging but delicate ego, the attention-deficit disorder, and, occasionally, the revealing shards of self-illumination. He can’t help himself.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...onal-emergency

WilliamSeger · 16th February 2019, 10:07 AM

@DanRather tweeted: "The Constitution should not be considered a mere speed bump in the path of a reckless driver."

dann · 16th February 2019, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I think they are not calling for assdination per se but armed resistence to a tyranny...you know,how this country got started?

Assdination would be overkill. They'll have to settle for half assdination.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Belz... · 16th February 2019, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger

@DanRather tweeted: "The Constitution should not be considered a mere speed bump in the path of a reckless driver."

Well, if the driver's going fast enough, a speedbump is all you need to stop him.

Darat · 16th February 2019, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Bit off topic, but I wonder how Pence's wife really feels about Pence meeting women in private.

I mean, its a really dump rule that he has. (Does he honestly think every woman he meets would be all over him, if only she could get him in a private meeting.) I just wonder if his wife agrees with the rule, or whether Pence is doing it on his own initiative and his wife doesn't care.

He must know he can't be trusted with women. Whilst that is great in terms of self awareness and protecting women from him I would have thought it be a character flaw that would have meant he was not suited for public office.

Brainache · 16th February 2019, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

He must know he can't be trusted with women. Whilst that is great in terms of self awareness and protecting women from him I would have thought it be a character flaw that would have meant he was not suited for public office.

I'm thinking that, as a Fundamentalist Christian, he views women as immoral seductresses who can't control themselves. If he were to be left alone with such a vile temptress he would be powerless to resist... Best to just avoid temptation altogether...

Vixen · 16th February 2019, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Brainache

I'm thinking that, as a Fundamentalist Christian, he views women as immoral seductresses who can't control themselves. If he were to be left alone with such a vile temptress he would be powerless to resist... Best to just avoid temptation altogether...

Hahahahahaha!

The Great Zaganza · 16th February 2019, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Brainache

I'm thinking that, as a Fundamentalist Christian, he views women as immoral seductresses who can't control themselves. If he were to be left alone with such a vile temptress he would be powerless to resist... Best to just avoid temptation altogether...

Un-chaperoned women are just asking for it.

mgidm86 · 16th February 2019, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Read this carefully

IT WON'T WORK

Walls by themselves DO NOT WORK. In order for walls to work, they must be heavily guarded and patrolled throughout their entire length, otherwise people will go around them (by swimming or boating) over them (by microlight) or under them (by tunnelling). There are numerous recorded incidences of all of the above. There are also recorded instances of drug smugglers using drones to get drugs over the border. They may even go through the wall (a power diamond concrete/steel cutter in a remote location). Therefore, rather than "freeing up resources" they will actually take more resources. The drugs will still get in through tunnels and through ports of entry and via the Gulf of Mexico in boats and drug submarines.

However, if you take that $5-8 billion Trump wants for his white elephant vanity project, you could build a gold-plated, state-of-the-art electronic frontier with, hidden sensors and observation posts covering every inch of the border, even in places where building a wall is physically impossible.

Do you know how I know this will work? Its because it already has, right there in the USA. There are two places protected by just such electronic frontiers - Area 51 and Dugway Proving grounds. In over 50 years, very few people, if any have ever been able to get into them, and those that have were caught almost immediately.

The addition of surveillance drones to a US Mexico electronic frontier would make it even more secure.

Problem is that we will be left right where we are currently - taking them into custody, which costs a lot of money. They eventually get released into the country and some will maybe go to their court hearing - two years later. The rest remain unaccounted for.

If sensors or patrols catch them that means they are already here.

Unless we start driving them back to the border and kicking them out on the spot (which is what we should do), keeping them from getting in at all is the desired result. If they can't cross the barrier then the only choices are to keep trying or turn back.

If we start kicking them out instead then no, we don't need a wall. But if we continue this catch-and-release crap then ya I want a damn barrier because this is not working.

Crossing a barrier by other means will be more difficult and more expensive for the criminals, which makes it more expensive for anyone who wants to pay a Coyote to get them here. I doubt the cartels will clog their tunnels with people when they can make a lot more money sneaking in drugs.

I'm open to any workable solution though. It seems like the folks in power, both sides, really don't want to slow the flow of illegal aliens. That's where the real problem is.

Idiot lawmakers in Cali are happy to give away drivers licenses, health care, voting rights (in SF). I see no sign of that changing, so if they won't do the right thing we need a asterisking wall.

Again, if you want to avoid a wall then the people in charge need to start giving a crap. Sanctuary state? Uh no I don't think so - build the f'n wall.

Trebuchet · 16th February 2019, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Brainache

I'm thinking that, as a Fundamentalist Christian, he views women as immoral seductresses who can't control themselves. If he were to be left alone with such a vile temptress he would be powerless to resist... Best to just avoid temptation altogether...

Exactly right.

dudalb · 16th February 2019, 03:09 PM

I think somebody just does not like having to live with people with brown skins....

Not aimed at You, trebuchet....

mgidm86 · 16th February 2019, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Apathia

I live in southern Arizona. They're already here. They were here before 1912 when the territory became a state. And they were here before the USA wrested the land from Spain. It was their home already.

Which has nothing to do with anything. And you're wrong.

dudalb · 16th February 2019, 03:16 PM

Let's not get sidetracked.
The issue is not if the wall is a good idea or a bad one,but that,good or bad,Trump is choosing a reckless and dangerous end run around the Constituion to get it.
I would be equally opposed if a Democratic President tried this to get project that he liked and congress turned down funded.
Let's stick to the main issue, folks.

mgidm86 · 16th February 2019, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

The only reason they are supplying is that people are buying.

Well then as long as people are buying drugs let's let them flow! Great point! Great thread!

a_unique_person · 16th February 2019, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

Well then as long as people are buying drugs let's let them flow! Great point! Great thread!

There is a deep sickness in the American psyche that needs mountains of drugs. Let's ignore that and build a wall.

Norman Alexander · 16th February 2019, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

Problem is that we will be left right where we are currently - taking them into custody, which costs a lot of money. They eventually get released into the country and some will maybe go to their court hearing - two years later. The rest remain unaccounted for.

So...what? Shoot them on sight and save a lot of expense? Why do you need a wall for that? Just make it open season on illegals with a year-round hunting license, and I'm sure all the gun-happies will be glad to contribute some time.

Quote:

If sensors or patrols catch them that means they are already here.

If they climb/fly/tunnel the wall they are already here.

Quote:

Unless we start driving them back to the border and kicking them out on the spot (which is what we should do), keeping them from getting in at all is the desired result. If they can't cross the barrier then the only choices are to keep trying or turn back.

You've hit the main point. Problem is, the wall is NO BARRIER. It's pretty much useless to accomplish this specific task. Tens of billions would be spent on a project that is not going to achieve its design purpose. The old term for this was a white elephant. There are Misappropriation Committees (Ways and Means?) that will have a field day excoriating anyone who pushed this on the US public.

Quote:

If we start kicking them out instead then no, we don't need a wall. But if we continue this catch-and-release crap then ya I want a damn barrier because this is not working.

Does your wall stop boats? Trains? Or airline passengers?

Quote:

Crossing a barrier by other means will be more difficult and more expensive for the criminals, which makes it more expensive for anyone who wants to pay a Coyote to get them here. I doubt the cartels will clog their tunnels with people when they can make a lot more money sneaking in drugs.

Their imagination is a lot bigger and better than yours.

Quote:

I'm open to any workable solution though. It seems like the folks in power, both sides, really don't want to slow the flow of illegal aliens. That's where the real problem is.

That's right. Give me your huddled masses yearning to be free. We will throw them right back where they came from.

Quote:

Idiot lawmakers in Cali are happy to give away drivers licenses, health care, voting rights (in SF). I see no sign of that changing, so if they won't do the right thing we need a asterisking wall.

Repeating falsehoods doesn't help your case.

Quote:

Again, if you want to avoid a wall then the people in charge need to start giving a crap. Sanctuary state? Uh no I don't think so - build the f'n wall.

Have you invested in a concrete and steel firm specialising in barriers?

Belz... · 16th February 2019, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

Problem is that we will be left right where we are currently - taking them into custody, which costs a lot of money.

Which part of "most illegals come through roads, ports and airports" is causing you comprehension issues?

beren · 16th February 2019, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Belz...

Which part of "most illegals come through roads, ports and airports" is causing you comprehension issues?

The part that requires thought intead of anger.

JoeMorgue · 16th February 2019, 07:47 PM

And things that would work, sensor networks, increased funding and training to border patrol, even some limited physical barriers in some areas are and have always been on the table. They just don't matter because "The Wall" is such a symbolic part of Trump's persona he can't budge on it.

There's countless compromise solutions that would actually improve security along our borders and other points on entry that would be readily accepted by all sides if one petulant man-child wasn't letting it represent his manhood.

When the CATO Institute and the ACLU are both against something, it's probably a bad idea.

acbytesla · 16th February 2019, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

And things that would work, sensor networks, increased funding and training to border patrol, even some limited physical barriers in some areas are and have always been on the table. They just don't matter because "The Wall" is such a symbolic part of Trump's persona he can't budge on it.

There's countless compromise solutions that would actually improve security along our borders and other points on entry that would be readily accepted by all sides if one petulant man-child wasn't letting it represent his manhood.

When the CATO Institute and the ACLU are both against something, it's probably a bad idea.

Now those are two strange bedfellows.

JoeMorgue · 16th February 2019, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Now those are two strange bedfellows.

Trump's making a lot of those. Closest thing I can find to a silver lining in this fever dream.

The Great Zaganza · 16th February 2019, 07:54 PM

What would work would be to have well-staffed embassies in origin countries and make it easy for those who qualify to get refugee status.

lomiller · 16th February 2019, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

Well then as long as people are buying drugs let's let them flow! Great point! Great thread!

Why do you hate capitalism? As long as people are buying drugs there will be enraptures out there to supply them.

sackett · 16th February 2019, 08:47 PM

If Donny Q.* ever gets his hands on that big hunka money, count on two things:

1. The Great Wall will never be built.

2. Every cent of those billions will be stolen, peculated, and boondoggled away, some into Donny's own pockets, and much of it into the pockets of the guys who own him.

* For Quisling. What else?

JoeMorgue · 16th February 2019, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

What would work would be to have well-staffed embassies in origin countries and make it easy for those who qualify to get refugee status.

Oh come on man think. How are we going to Mexico to pay for our embassies?

smartcooky · 16th February 2019, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

Crossing a barrier by other means will be more difficult and more expensive for the criminals, which makes it more expensive for anyone who wants to pay a Coyote to get them here. I doubt the cartels will clog their tunnels with people when they can make a lot more money sneaking in drugs.

Which part of "the vast majority of drugs enter the United States through ports of entry" to you fail to understand.

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I'm open to any workable solution though. It seems like the folks in power, both sides, really don't want to slow the flow of illegal aliens. That's where the real problem is.

Which part of "the vast majority of illegal aliens in the United States came in legally through ports of entry and are illegal because they overstayed their visas" do you fail to understand.

quadraginta · 16th February 2019, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

He must know he can't be trusted with women. Whilst that is great in terms of self awareness and protecting women from him I would have thought it be a character flaw that would have meant he was not suited for public office.

Using the last few years as a baseline, I think we can safely conclude that there is no such thing as a character flaw that would have meant someone was not suited for public office.

As long as they are Republicans, of course.

quadraginta · 16th February 2019, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Which part of "the vast majority of drugs enter the United States through ports of entry" to you fail to understand.

Which part of "the vast majority of illegal aliens in the United States came in legally through ports of entry and are illegal because they overstayed their visas" do you fail to understand.

It isn't failure, it's refusal.

Toontown · 16th February 2019, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

It isn't failure, it's refusal.

Which begs the question: WHY the refusal to understand?

There's gotta be some kind of emotional payoff. That's all I can figure.

thaiboxerken · 17th February 2019, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Let's not get sidetracked.
The issue is not if the wall is a good idea or a bad one,but that,good or bad,Trump is choosing a reckless and dangerous end run around the Constituion to get it.
I would be equally opposed if a Democratic President tried this to get project that he liked and congress turned down funded.
Let's stick to the main issue, folks.

This is very threatening for American democracy. Trump and his cult is expecting this to go to the SCOTUS where they expect that they'll rule in Trump's favor. I find it very possible that it could happen, since there are 2 appointed Trump loyalists on the SCOTUS bench and, of the other 3 conservatives, only Roberts has some semblance of a spine to stand up against his own party's authoritarian leanings.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 17th February 2019, 02:01 AM

https://twitter.com/meridithmcgraw/s...08211343540225

Quote:

Just in: Acting Sec of Defense Shanahan just told reporters he hasn’t determined if there is a military necessity for a border wall or how much money Defense will even spend. Shanahan said he hasn’t yet spoken to President Trump.

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/sta...34152249765888

Quote:

That's right, it's one of those "national emergencies" where the country is being "invaded" but you as president haven't checked in with your Defense Secretary

a_unique_person · 17th February 2019, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Toontown

Which begs the question: WHY the refusal to understand?

There's gotta be some kind of emotional payoff. That's all I can figure.

It's called "staying on message". Normal political crap. Just completely ignore everything they isn't what you want to say to your audience.

Garrison · 17th February 2019, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Which part of "the vast majority of drugs enter the United States through ports of entry" to you fail to understand.

Which part of "the vast majority of illegal aliens in the United States came in legally through ports of entry and are illegal because they overstayed their visas" do you fail to understand.

I'm guessing the part where the above proves that Trump is a lying idiot?

Garrison · 17th February 2019, 05:45 AM

Of course if there was a desire to actually stop illegal immigration maybe stop handing out exemptions from the e-verify system to states that use lots of seasonal migrant labour? But I guess that would be too hard.

15th February 2019, 07:48 PM	#201
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 24,610	Originally Posted by smartcooky Second Point: Trump's vanity project would spend 90% of the border security budget in an attempt to fix less than 10% of the problem, meanwhile, the place where 90% of the problems are gets cuts and lacks resources. Let's not forget that Trump has already announced the Trump Wall as 100% effective, so once it's built there'll be no need for anything more. No going back to investigate and ameliorate actual problems and solutions because there will no longer be any problems. Trump has said so, and so it shall be.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

15th February 2019, 07:57 PM	#202
Distracted1 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,254	Originally Posted by CapelDodger Let's not forget that Trump has already announced the Trump Wall as 100% effective, so once it's built there'll be no need for anything more. No going back to investigate and ameliorate actual problems and solutions because there will no longer be any problems. Trump has said so, and so it shall be. Maybe we should believe him. After all, he has already saved us from a second Great Depression and catastrophic war with NK.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

15th February 2019, 09:13 PM	#203
Polaris Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 11,359	Originally Posted by chrispy How about all of his critics being liars. All of the criticism of the border wall being lies. "Liars to the right of me, liars to the left of me..." "Here I am, stuck in the middle with GRU." Originally Posted by Apathia And taken together they spell "CANT." Sorry Donald, you can't have your Great Wall of Trump. Kind of a shame Utah isn't further south. Originally Posted by Upchurch Relax. Think of it more like a drinking game. We're getting boofed all right...
	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk. Last edited by Polaris; 15th February 2019 at 09:35 PM.

16th February 2019, 05:26 AM	#206
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 86,882	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken I think Pence would be a danger in a different way, but I don't know that he'd burn the world down to make a buck, like Trump seems to be eager to do. For all I know, he might destroy it just to bring Jesus back.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

16th February 2019, 05:54 AM	#207
Tero Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 1,636	Quote: Analysis: weak rambling (though not as feeble minded as I had him) A Weak and Rambling President Declares a Fake National Emergency “It would have been great to have done it earlier. But I was a little new to the job, a little new to the profession. And we had a little disappointment for the first year and a half. People that should have stepped up did not step up. But we’re stepping up now.” Take that, Paul Ryan! This official unveiling of the former House Speaker as Trump’s 2020 whipping boy didn’t come as a surprise. Neither did the declaration of a national emergency. Trump has been threatening to make this move for months, and Mitch McConnell, the Majority Leader in the Senate, had announced his intentions from the Senate floor on Thursday afternoon. Earlier on Thursday, according to a tick-tock by the Washington Post, Trump was still threatening to veto the bipartisan spending deal that allotted $1.375 billion... ....Trump dodged the question and called CNN “fake news.” The next questioner, Playboy’s Brian Karem, followed up Acosta’s question and asked Trump to say where he gets his figures. “I get my numbers from a lot of sources, like Homeland Security, primarily,” Trump replied. “And the numbers that I have from Homeland Security are a disaster.” ...used to be a saying: “Let Reagan be Reagan.” In the Trump Administration such a statement would be entirely redundant. The President lets it all hang out: the incoherence, the fabrications, the mendacity, the raging but delicate ego, the attention-deficit disorder, and, occasionally, the revealing shards of self-illumination. He can’t help himself. https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...onal-emergency
	__________________ https://karireport.blogspot.com/2016...d-my-coal.html http://karireport.blogspot.com/

16th February 2019, 02:15 AM	#204
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 22,766	Trump ripped for plan to steal military funds for his wall by GOP Armed Forces Committee members Quote: “Republican members of the Armed Services Committee and the Appropriations Committee are probably going to set themselves on fire over this,” former Rep. Charlie Dent (R-PA), who chaired the House Military Construction-VA Appropriations Subcommittee, said on CNN, Politico notes. “This is just a slap in the face to Congress and their power of the purse.” Quote: Rep. Mike Turner of Ohio, the top Republican on the House Armed Services Strategic Forces Subcommittee, called Trump’s move a ‘dangerous precedent’ and warned “securing our border should not be done at the expense of previously funded military construction projects, Quote: Turner and four other House Republicans — Richard Hudson of North Carolina, Tom Cole of Oklahoma, Chris Collins of New York and Doug Lamborn of Colorado — warned Trump against siphoning off military construction funds in a letter last week, citing “aging infrastructure challenges which undermine the readiness and lethality” of the military. https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/gop...ary-funds-wall

16th February 2019, 05:24 AM	#205
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State. Posts: 19,222	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Trump ripped for plan to steal military funds for his wall by GOP Armed Forces Committee members https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/gop...ary-funds-wall The important point the thing in the Whitehouse might be forgetting here is, those construction projects are supposed to happen in someone's district. There's only one Republican congressional district on the border.

16th February 2019, 10:07 AM	#208
WilliamSeger Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,075	@DanRather tweeted: "The Constitution should not be considered a mere speed bump in the path of a reckless driver."

16th February 2019, 12:54 PM	#210
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 86,882	Originally Posted by WilliamSeger @DanRather tweeted: "The Constitution should not be considered a mere speed bump in the path of a reckless driver." Well, if the driver's going fast enough, a speedbump is all you need to stop him.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

16th February 2019, 01:21 PM	#211
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 88,374	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Bit off topic, but I wonder how Pence's wife really feels about Pence meeting women in private. I mean, its a really dump rule that he has. (Does he honestly think every woman he meets would be all over him, if only she could get him in a private meeting.) I just wonder if his wife agrees with the rule, or whether Pence is doing it on his own initiative and his wife doesn't care. He must know he can't be trusted with women. Whilst that is great in terms of self awareness and protecting women from him I would have thought it be a character flaw that would have meant he was not suited for public office.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

16th February 2019, 01:27 PM	#212
Brainache Nasty Brutish and Tall Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Canberra Posts: 17,277	Originally Posted by Darat He must know he can't be trusted with women. Whilst that is great in terms of self awareness and protecting women from him I would have thought it be a character flaw that would have meant he was not suited for public office. I'm thinking that, as a Fundamentalist Christian, he views women as immoral seductresses who can't control themselves. If he were to be left alone with such a vile temptress he would be powerless to resist... Best to just avoid temptation altogether...

16th February 2019, 01:46 PM	#213
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Suomi Posts: 17,447	Originally Posted by Brainache I'm thinking that, as a Fundamentalist Christian, he views women as immoral seductresses who can't control themselves. If he were to be left alone with such a vile temptress he would be powerless to resist... Best to just avoid temptation altogether... Hahahahahaha!
	__________________ Oi maamme, Suomi, synnyinmaa, soi, sana kultainen! Ei laaksoa, ei kukkulaa, ei vettä rantaa rakkaampaa, kuin kotimaa tää pohjoinen, maa kallis isien!

16th February 2019, 01:52 PM	#214
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 10,235	Originally Posted by Brainache I'm thinking that, as a Fundamentalist Christian, he views women as immoral seductresses who can't control themselves. If he were to be left alone with such a vile temptress he would be powerless to resist... Best to just avoid temptation altogether... Un-chaperoned women are just asking for it.
	__________________ “Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”-Sen. Lindsey Graham

16th February 2019, 03:06 PM	#215
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,913	Originally Posted by smartcooky Read this carefully IT WON'T WORK Walls by themselves DO NOT WORK. In order for walls to work, they must be heavily guarded and patrolled throughout their entire length, otherwise people will go around them (by swimming or boating) over them (by microlight) or under them (by tunnelling). There are numerous recorded incidences of all of the above. There are also recorded instances of drug smugglers using drones to get drugs over the border. They may even go through the wall (a power diamond concrete/steel cutter in a remote location). Therefore, rather than "freeing up resources" they will actually take more resources. The drugs will still get in through tunnels and through ports of entry and via the Gulf of Mexico in boats and drug submarines. However, if you take that $5-8 billion Trump wants for his white elephant vanity project, you could build a gold-plated, state-of-the-art electronic frontier with, hidden sensors and observation posts covering every inch of the border, even in places where building a wall is physically impossible. Do you know how I know this will work? Its because it already has, right there in the USA. There are two places protected by just such electronic frontiers - Area 51 and Dugway Proving grounds. In over 50 years, very few people, if any have ever been able to get into them, and those that have were caught almost immediately. The addition of surveillance drones to a US Mexico electronic frontier would make it even more secure. Problem is that we will be left right where we are currently - taking them into custody, which costs a lot of money. They eventually get released into the country and some will maybe go to their court hearing - two years later. The rest remain unaccounted for. If sensors or patrols catch them that means they are already here. Unless we start driving them back to the border and kicking them out on the spot (which is what we should do), keeping them from getting in at all is the desired result. If they can't cross the barrier then the only choices are to keep trying or turn back. If we start kicking them out instead then no, we don't need a wall. But if we continue this catch-and-release crap then ya I want a damn barrier because this is not working. Crossing a barrier by other means will be more difficult and more expensive for the criminals, which makes it more expensive for anyone who wants to pay a Coyote to get them here. I doubt the cartels will clog their tunnels with people when they can make a lot more money sneaking in drugs. I'm open to any workable solution though. It seems like the folks in power, both sides, really don't want to slow the flow of illegal aliens. That's where the real problem is. Idiot lawmakers in Cali are happy to give away drivers licenses, health care, voting rights (in SF). I see no sign of that changing, so if they won't do the right thing we need a asterisking wall. Again, if you want to avoid a wall then the people in charge need to start giving a crap. Sanctuary state? Uh no I don't think so - build the f'n wall.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,913	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures. Last edited by mgidm86; 16th February 2019 at 03:07 PM.

16th February 2019, 03:08 PM	#216
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwet Posts: 23,776	Originally Posted by Brainache I'm thinking that, as a Fundamentalist Christian, he views women as immoral seductresses who can't control themselves. If he were to be left alone with such a vile temptress he would be powerless to resist... Best to just avoid temptation altogether... Exactly right.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

16th February 2019, 03:09 PM	#217
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,131	I think somebody just does not like having to live with people with brown skins.... Not aimed at You, trebuchet....
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

16th February 2019, 03:12 PM	#218
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,913	Originally Posted by Apathia I live in southern Arizona. They're already here. They were here before 1912 when the territory became a state. And they were here before the USA wrested the land from Spain. It was their home already. Which has nothing to do with anything. And you're wrong.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,913	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

16th February 2019, 03:16 PM	#219
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,131	Let's not get sidetracked. The issue is not if the wall is a good idea or a bad one,but that,good or bad,Trump is choosing a reckless and dangerous end run around the Constituion to get it. I would be equally opposed if a Democratic President tried this to get project that he liked and congress turned down funded. Let's stick to the main issue, folks.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

16th February 2019, 03:16 PM	#220
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,913	Originally Posted by a_unique_person The only reason they are supplying is that people are buying. Well then as long as people are buying drugs let's let them flow! Great point! Great thread!
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,913	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

16th February 2019, 03:26 PM	#221
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 41,308	Originally Posted by mgidm86 Well then as long as people are buying drugs let's let them flow! Great point! Great thread! There is a deep sickness in the American psyche that needs mountains of drugs. Let's ignore that and build a wall.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

16th February 2019, 03:37 PM	#222
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 6,422	Originally Posted by mgidm86 Problem is that we will be left right where we are currently - taking them into custody, which costs a lot of money. They eventually get released into the country and some will maybe go to their court hearing - two years later. The rest remain unaccounted for. So...what? Shoot them on sight and save a lot of expense? Why do you need a wall for that? Just make it open season on illegals with a year-round hunting license, and I'm sure all the gun-happies will be glad to contribute some time. Quote: If sensors or patrols catch them that means they are already here. If they climb/fly/tunnel the wall they are already here. Quote: Unless we start driving them back to the border and kicking them out on the spot (which is what we should do), keeping them from getting in at all is the desired result. If they can't cross the barrier then the only choices are to keep trying or turn back. You've hit the main point. Problem is, the wall is NO BARRIER. It's pretty much useless to accomplish this specific task. Tens of billions would be spent on a project that is not going to achieve its design purpose. The old term for this was a white elephant. There are Misappropriation Committees (Ways and Means?) that will have a field day excoriating anyone who pushed this on the US public. Quote: If we start kicking them out instead then no, we don't need a wall. But if we continue this catch-and-release crap then ya I want a damn barrier because this is not working. Does your wall stop boats? Trains? Or airline passengers? Quote: Crossing a barrier by other means will be more difficult and more expensive for the criminals, which makes it more expensive for anyone who wants to pay a Coyote to get them here. I doubt the cartels will clog their tunnels with people when they can make a lot more money sneaking in drugs. Their imagination is a lot bigger and better than yours. Quote: I'm open to any workable solution though. It seems like the folks in power, both sides, really don't want to slow the flow of illegal aliens. That's where the real problem is. That's right. Give me your huddled masses yearning to be free. We will throw them right back where they came from. Quote: Idiot lawmakers in Cali are happy to give away drivers licenses, health care, voting rights (in SF). I see no sign of that changing, so if they won't do the right thing we need a asterisking wall. Repeating falsehoods doesn't help your case. Quote: Again, if you want to avoid a wall then the people in charge need to start giving a crap. Sanctuary state? Uh no I don't think so - build the f'n wall. Have you invested in a concrete and steel firm specialising in barriers?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

16th February 2019, 04:02 PM	#223
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 86,882	Originally Posted by mgidm86 Problem is that we will be left right where we are currently - taking them into custody, which costs a lot of money. Which part of "most illegals come through roads, ports and airports" is causing you comprehension issues?
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

16th February 2019, 04:55 PM	#224
beren Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 1,230	Originally Posted by Belz... Which part of "most illegals come through roads, ports and airports" is causing you comprehension issues? The part that requires thought intead of anger.
	__________________ There’s only four things you can be in life: sober, tipsy, drunk and hungover. Tipsy is the only one where you don’t cry when you’re doing it. ~ James Acaster

16th February 2019, 07:47 PM	#225
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,075	And things that would work, sensor networks, increased funding and training to border patrol, even some limited physical barriers in some areas are and have always been on the table. They just don't matter because "The Wall" is such a symbolic part of Trump's persona he can't budge on it. There's countless compromise solutions that would actually improve security along our borders and other points on entry that would be readily accepted by all sides if one petulant man-child wasn't letting it represent his manhood. When the CATO Institute and the ACLU are both against something, it's probably a bad idea.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

16th February 2019, 07:50 PM	#226
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,205	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue And things that would work, sensor networks, increased funding and training to border patrol, even some limited physical barriers in some areas are and have always been on the table. They just don't matter because "The Wall" is such a symbolic part of Trump's persona he can't budge on it. There's countless compromise solutions that would actually improve security along our borders and other points on entry that would be readily accepted by all sides if one petulant man-child wasn't letting it represent his manhood. When the CATO Institute and the ACLU are both against something, it's probably a bad idea. Now those are two strange bedfellows.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

16th February 2019, 07:53 PM	#227
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,075	Originally Posted by acbytesla Now those are two strange bedfellows. Trump's making a lot of those. Closest thing I can find to a silver lining in this fever dream.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

16th February 2019, 07:54 PM	#228
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 10,235	What would work would be to have well-staffed embassies in origin countries and make it easy for those who qualify to get refugee status.
	__________________ “Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”-Sen. Lindsey Graham

16th February 2019, 08:47 PM	#229
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10,103	Originally Posted by mgidm86 Well then as long as people are buying drugs let's let them flow! Great point! Great thread! Why do you hate capitalism? As long as people are buying drugs there will be enraptures out there to supply them.
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

16th February 2019, 08:47 PM	#230
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 5,725	If Donny Q.* ever gets his hands on that big hunka money, count on two things: 1. The Great Wall will never be built. 2. Every cent of those billions will be stolen, peculated, and boondoggled away, some into Donny's own pockets, and much of it into the pockets of the guys who own him. * For Quisling. What else?
	__________________ Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil

16th February 2019, 08:47 PM	#231
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,075	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza What would work would be to have well-staffed embassies in origin countries and make it easy for those who qualify to get refugee status. Oh come on man think. How are we going to Mexico to pay for our embassies?
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

16th February 2019, 09:08 PM	#232
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 12,884	Originally Posted by mgidm86 Crossing a barrier by other means will be more difficult and more expensive for the criminals, which makes it more expensive for anyone who wants to pay a Coyote to get them here. I doubt the cartels will clog their tunnels with people when they can make a lot more money sneaking in drugs. Which part of "the vast majority of drugs enter the United States through ports of entry" to you fail to understand. Originally Posted by mgidm86 I'm open to any workable solution though. It seems like the folks in power, both sides, really don't want to slow the flow of illegal aliens. That's where the real problem is. Which part of "the vast majority of illegal aliens in the United States came in legally through ports of entry* and are illegal because they overstayed their visas"* do you fail to understand.
	__________________ "You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

16th February 2019, 11:43 PM	#233
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 24,419	Originally Posted by Darat He must know he can't be trusted with women. Whilst that is great in terms of self awareness and protecting women from him I would have thought it be a character flaw that would have meant he was not suited for public office. Using the last few years as a baseline, I think we can safely conclude that there is no such thing as a character flaw that would have meant someone was not suited for public office. As long as they are Republicans, of course.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

16th February 2019, 11:44 PM	#234
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 24,419	Originally Posted by smartcooky Which part of "the vast majority of drugs enter the United States through ports of entry" to you fail to understand. Which part of "the vast majority of illegal aliens in the United States came in legally through ports of entry* and are illegal because they overstayed their visas"* do you fail to understand. It isn't failure, it's refusal.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

16th February 2019, 11:51 PM	#235
Toontown Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 6,595	Originally Posted by quadraginta It isn't failure, it's refusal. Which begs the question: WHY the refusal to understand? There's gotta be some kind of emotional payoff. That's all I can figure.
Toontown Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 6,595	__________________ "I did not say that!" - Donald Trump

17th February 2019, 12:01 AM	#236
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 30,288	Originally Posted by dudalb Let's not get sidetracked. The issue is not if the wall is a good idea or a bad one,but that,good or bad,Trump is choosing a reckless and dangerous end run around the Constituion to get it. I would be equally opposed if a Democratic President tried this to get project that he liked and congress turned down funded. Let's stick to the main issue, folks. This is very threatening for American democracy. Trump and his cult is expecting this to go to the SCOTUS where they expect that they'll rule in Trump's favor. I find it very possible that it could happen, since there are 2 appointed Trump loyalists on the SCOTUS bench and, of the other 3 conservatives, only Roberts has some semblance of a spine to stand up against his own party's authoritarian leanings.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine