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Tags 2020 elections , Bernie Sanders , presidential candidates

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Old 20th February 2019, 11:49 PM   #161
Skeptic Ginger
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Yahoo News: AOC not ready to endorse Bernie.
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Old 21st February 2019, 12:05 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Gotta love how the reason we need to go for another corporatist insider-machine candidate like Hillary is because the Republicans would be mean to an actual lefty, which must mean the corporatist insider-machine type is immune to that... but the reason Hillary lost is because the Republicans were mean to her...
That's not how the argument goes. I know because I'm one of the original promulgators on these boards. Trump wasn't being nicer to Bernie because they have so much in common. He was being nicer because his full array of weapons (as with the Great Right Wing Noise Machine) were focused on Hillary.

Had Bernie won the nomination he would have gone, in the blink of an eye, from "Rustic Folksy Man of the People Who's a Thorn in the Establishment's Side" to "OMG, New York City Jew Boy Socialist Who Honeymooned in Roosha Before Roosha Was Wonderful".

In short, it was that knowledge of the modus operandi of the right wing and the twenty year campaign to smear the Clintons (and seventy year campaign to smear the New Deal) was/is all the proof you need. If you could find us one Democratic Party candidate for the Presidency in the past thirty years who they didn't do that to, we could chalk it up to paranoia.

You have to spot the anomalies. Why is the fox setting that nice table and offering fresh niblets and a nice cabernet sauvignon to the residents of the chicken coop?
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Old 21st February 2019, 12:22 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Had Bernie won the nomination he would have gone, in the blink of an eye, from "Rustic Folksy Man of the People Who's a Thorn in the Establishment's Side" to "OMG, New York City Jew Boy Socialist Who Honeymooned in Roosha Before Roosha Was Wonderful".
Trump was saying that during the primaries, too:

https://insider.foxnews.com/2015/10/...-sanders-rally

Quote:
'Maniac, Communist': Trump Goes Off on Bernie Sanders at Rally
Quote:
She's gotta give everything away because this maniac that was standing on her right was giving everything away, so sheís following! That's what's happening," he said.

Trump went on to refer to Sanders as a "socialist-slash-communist," adding that nobody wants to use the word "communist" to describe Sanders.

"He's gonna tax you people at 90 percent; he's gonna take everything. And nobody's heard the term 'communist.' I call him a socialist-slash-communist because that's what he is."
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Old 21st February 2019, 02:47 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This happens every election. The internet gets itself worked into a frenzy over some outside the mainstream darkhorse candidate, they convince themselves he can win, make up all sorts of conspiracy theories about why he didn't, wash, rinse, repeat.



Bernie Sanders, Ron Paul, kinda of Ralph Nader, (arguably) Bat Buchanan, hell Ross Perot was almost like a weird, proto-version of it.



And the idea that Bernie Sanders lost the election for Clinton is laughable. He came in behind Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Evan McMullin, and Darrel Castle and as always everyone was running a distant second to perennial write in favorite "Did Note Vote" who has held every elected office in America since forever.
You left Trump off your list of outside the mainstream dark horse candidates.
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Old 21st February 2019, 05:54 AM   #165
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Bernie just needs enough donations for another house and another sports car and then he'll drop out
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Old 21st February 2019, 05:58 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Bernie just needs enough donations for another house and another sports car and then he'll drop out
Didn't you make that one already?

Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Bernie already had enough donations for another home and sports car
Oh, yeah. You did.

Do you have anything to actually contribute to the topic?
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Old 21st February 2019, 09:01 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Quote:
Had Bernie won the nomination he would have gone, in the blink of an eye, from "Rustic Folksy Man of the People Who's a Thorn in the Establishment's Side" to "OMG, New York City Jew Boy Socialist Who Honeymooned in Roosha Before Roosha Was Wonderful".
Trump was saying that during the primaries, too:

https://insider.foxnews.com/2015/10/...-sanders-rally
Trump went on to refer to Sanders as a "socialist-slash-communist," adding that nobody wants to use the word "communist" to describe Sanders.
Yes, I'm sure if you dig deep enough you will find a few attacks on Sanders, from Trump or other republicans during the primaries.

But, those attacks were relatively minor (compared to what was directed at Clinton, and compared to what Sanders would have encountered had he become the nominee) and were certainly not sustained. Did Trump mention Sander's and the "Yankee Die" rally? How about Sanders' criminal activities? No, he didn't. He went after the relatively low-hanging fruit, but in an election campaign the attacks would have been much much deeper, and they would have come from more than just Trump.

And while he may have criticized Sanders during that particular rally, that is at least partially offset by some of the nicer things he said about him.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...anders-1175611
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Old 21st February 2019, 01:15 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
That's not how the argument goes. I know because I'm one of the original promulgators on these boards. Trump wasn't being nicer to Bernie because they have so much in common. He was being nicer because his full array of weapons (as with the Great Right Wing Noise Machine) were focused on Hillary.

Had Bernie won the nomination he would have gone, in the blink of an eye, from "Rustic Folksy Man of the People Who's a Thorn in the Establishment's Side" to "OMG, New York City Jew Boy Socialist Who Honeymooned in Roosha Before Roosha Was Wonderful".

In short, it was that knowledge of the modus operandi of the right wing and the twenty year campaign to smear the Clintons (and seventy year campaign to smear the New Deal) was/is all the proof you need. If you could find us one Democratic Party candidate for the Presidency in the past thirty years who they didn't do that to, we could chalk it up to paranoia.

You have to spot the anomalies. Why is the fox setting that nice table and offering fresh niblets and a nice cabernet sauvignon to the residents of the chicken coop?

Well, on the bright side, that's one they won't be using this time around.



I mean they can, of course, but ... you know ...
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Old 21st February 2019, 03:57 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I predict she will eventually endorse him.

But even now I can hear the "Bernie or Bust" faction of the progressive liberals cry foul.

There's no pleasing them and I'm finding it harder and harder to defend them on anything at all.
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Old 21st February 2019, 04:06 PM   #170
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Iím trying to figure out if Iím just going mad here or if Iím just missing something important b/c my knowledge of financial law & economics is relatively spotty. (Both possibilities strike me as totally plausible.)


A few premises for your consideration:

1) Large banks are required by law to keep at least 10% of their deposit liabilities in reserve.

2) Some fraction of depositors will want to pull out of these large banks immediately upon being informed that said banks are being forced to break up into a number of smaller banks. Some will do this for the sake of convenience, others for the sake of risk mitigation.

3) Said fraction may well represent in excess of 10% of the deposits in any given large bank, thereby triggering a liquidity crisis.

4) Bernie Sandersí proposal to simultaneously and forcibly break up J.P. Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo & Co., Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley will create six separate chances for such a liquidity crisis to happen. Even if any given large bank has a 90% of weathering the customer reshuffle intact, the odds of all six surviving would be barely better than a coin flip.

5) If even just one of these institutions goes belly-up, we could see cascading failures akin to the Lehman Bros. catastrophe, putting other institutions at further risk.

Without engaging in ad hom (e.g. ďYou just hate Bernie,Ē etc.) which of these premises would you guys dispute most strongly? I'd like to be very wrong about this, for the sake of sleeping more soundly at night.
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Old 21st February 2019, 05:21 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I predict she will eventually endorse him.

But even now I can hear the "Bernie or Bust" faction of the progressive liberals cry foul.

There's no pleasing them and I'm finding it harder and harder to defend them on anything at all.
That's sensible. It's too early for anyone to be endorsing any candidate. It's also too early for people to be declaring candidacy, IMO.
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Old 21st February 2019, 05:30 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I think Sanders has too narrow of a platform to make a good POTUS.
What do you think is missing?
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Old 21st February 2019, 05:59 PM   #173
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I think Democrats need a candidate who isn't 80.

Slight exaggeration but not much.

Even if Sanders had both houses of Congress, I doubt if much of his legislative agenda could pass. Say he gets the presidency - then what? He's an appealing voice from the wilderness, but has he been an effective legislator?
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Old 21st February 2019, 06:57 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
What do you think is missing?
Teeth?
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Old 21st February 2019, 07:15 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
What do you think is missing?
Check out Andrew Yang's Policy Page:
https://www.yang2020.com/policies/

Where are Bernie's policies? Where are your candidates policies?
US Senator Cory Booker (New Jersey): No policy positions at all on website.

South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg (Indiana): No policy positions at all on website.

Former US Housing Secretary Julian Castro (Texas): No policy positions at all on website.

Former Congressman John Delaney (Maryland): Some policy positions here: https://www.johndelaney.com/issues/
(click each one to expand for bullet list of items)

Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard (Hawaii): No policy positions at all on website.

US Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (New York): No policy positions at all on website.

US Senator Kamala Harris (California): No policy positions at all on website.

Governor Jay Inslee (Washington): Priorities statement here, https://www.jayinslee.com/meet/priorities

US Senator Amy Klobuchar (Minnesota): No policy positions at all on website.

US Senator Bernie Sanders (Vermont): No policy positions at all on website.

US Senator Elizabeth Warren (Massachusetts): Policy positions here: https://elizabethwarren.com/issues/




Bernie Sanders is like your stoner college roomate
Quote:

Asked to clarify his panegyrics to "fair trade," Sanders replied "what fair trade means to say that it is fair. It is roughly equivalent to the wages and environmental standards in the United States." If you want to pay $5,000 for that shiny new iPhone, Bernie Sanders is your guy!

Sanders is like a wind-up doll spouting out reliable, populist platitudes — "Millionaries and billionaires," "the top tenth of the top 1%," "rigged economy" — that his audiences of debt-strapped, ignorant Millennials applaud like trained seals.
Quote:
Bernie Sanders is not the "conscience" of the Left. He's more like the Sarah Palin of the Left: clueless, but embodying its cultural preferences and giving voice to its prejudices. Whereas Palin was the godfearin', plainspeakin' "hockey mom," Bernie is a righteously angry agitator.
Sanders, like Trump, has sentiments and platitudes but no meat to bite into.
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Old 21st February 2019, 07:31 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade View Post
What do you think is missing?
Solutions that are not all or none.

Recognition that capitalism is not evil but what we need is a balance between private and public options.
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Old 21st February 2019, 08:01 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Well, on the bright side, that's one they won't be using this time around.



I mean they can, of course, but ... you know ...
Do you really misunderestimate the venality of the Great Right Wing Noise Machine? Donnie and Vlad could be discussing whether a guy can get a reach around and they'll ignore it.

Obama states he'll meet with North Korea. Treason!
Clinton Foundation too cozy with the same governments Flynn and Don Jr. are now selling the country out to? Lock Her Up!

They don't give a rat's p'toot about the moral justification of their rants; they're just looking for sound bytes that crowds can repeat at rallies. My guess would be "Comrade Sanders! Comrade Sanders! Comrade Sanders!"
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Old 21st February 2019, 08:11 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
My guess would be "Comrade Sanders! Comrade Sanders! Comrade Sanders!"
That just makes me think of a weirdly rebranded KFC.
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Old 21st February 2019, 08:18 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Iím trying to figure out if Iím just going mad here or if Iím just missing something important b/c my knowledge of financial law & economics is relatively spotty. (Both possibilities strike me as totally plausible.)


A few premises for your consideration:

1) Large banks are required by law to keep at least 10% of their deposit liabilities in reserve.

2) Some fraction of depositors will want to pull out of these large banks immediately upon being informed that said banks are being forced to break up into a number of smaller banks. Some will do this for the sake of convenience, others for the sake of risk mitigation.

3) Said fraction may well represent in excess of 10% of the deposits in any given large bank, thereby triggering a liquidity crisis.

4) Bernie Sandersí proposal to simultaneously and forcibly break up J.P. Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo & Co., Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley will create six separate chances for such a liquidity crisis to happen. Even if any given large bank has a 90% of weathering the customer reshuffle intact, the odds of all six surviving would be barely better than a coin flip.

5) If even just one of these institutions goes belly-up, we could see cascading failures akin to the Lehman Bros. catastrophe, putting other institutions at further risk.

Without engaging in ad hom (e.g. ďYou just hate Bernie,Ē etc.) which of these premises would you guys dispute most strongly? I'd like to be very wrong about this, for the sake of sleeping more soundly at night.
#2. Nobody's going to panic bank run over some paperwork legally splitting a bank into separate divisions.
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Old 21st February 2019, 08:39 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
#2. Nobody's going to panic bank run over some paperwork legally splitting a bank into separate divisions.


...but seriously given the choice between moving my assets proactively into a middling (non targeted) bank of my own choosing or trusting the breakup system to play out in my favor, the choice seems pretty damn obvious.
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Old 21st February 2019, 08:55 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...70eaaf026f.jpg

...but seriously given the choice between moving my assets proactively into a middling (non targeted) bank of my own choosing or trusting the breakup system to play out in my favor, the choice seems pretty damn obvious.
Monetary "assets" are mostly digital now. It's almost definitely literally impossible for a bank to run out of "money".

eta: during the "secret" bailouts, the federal reserve gave the banks $16 TRILLION, just by typing some numbers into a computer.
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Old 21st February 2019, 09:32 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Do you really misunderestimate the venality of the Great Right Wing Noise Machine? Donnie and Vlad could be discussing whether a guy can get a reach around and they'll ignore it.

Obama states he'll meet with North Korea. Treason!
Clinton Foundation too cozy with the same governments Flynn and Don Jr. are now selling the country out to? Lock Her Up!

They don't give a rat's p'toot about the moral justification of their rants; they're just looking for sound bytes that crowds can repeat at rallies. My guess would be "Comrade Sanders! Comrade Sanders! Comrade Sanders!"
Dude, I know, I know.

The Dems need to form an anti-fake-news force that goes down to the R's level and relentlessly carpet bombs social media. Don't let them come up for air! Suffocate the life outta' them!!
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Old 21st February 2019, 10:11 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I'm not a "progressive USAian" (I'm Canadian, and in the last election I voted for our conservative party. But, were I in the states I probably would have voted for Obama and Clinton.) So, I can't speak for them, but I do have a few reasons why a 'progressive' might not want Sanders.

First of all, last time I checked, there was no master checklist that says "all Progressives must believe these points". Each progressive politician and voter will have their own set of ideas, and there is no guarantee that that the 'progressive' politician's ideas will perfectly align with that of the voter. So you're progressive and like Sander's health care plan... but you may disagree with his trade policies.

Secondly, win-ability. Yes, there were polls showing Sanders would win in a general election, but as I have pointed out before, those polls were done before Sanders was really subject to any sort of attacks. A 'rational' voter should look at the alternatives and ask what they should prefer: select a moderate left-of-center voter that has the best chance at winning (in which case you get some of what you want, but not all) or select a far left candidate that you might think better matches your preferences, and see your candidate go down to certain defeat.

And just out of curiosity, what exactly was "non-progressive" about Clinton? Yes, she (for example) accepted money for giving speeches at various corporations. But she also 1) wanted to increase banking regulations, 2) would have protected gay rights, 3) wanted to improve health care, 4) as a senator, tried to pass bills to strengthen unions, 5) supported minimum wage increases and increased paid family leave. Does that make her a "progressive"? Where is the dividing line between progressive and simply left-of-center?

What exactly was "non-progressive" about Clinton? You mean besides the fact that she was a centre-right corporatist more interested in defending the status quo and her filthy-rich backers rather than the interests of USAian workers?

Come on man, there is nothing even remotely "progressive" about the establishment US Dems. They are bought and paid for, just like the Repubs.
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Old 21st February 2019, 10:15 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It should tell you, first of all, that they're not actually hard core GOP supporters. For some reason it doesn't, though. I think this has been a fundamental flaw in your analysis all along.
Damn. We actually agree on something.
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Old 21st February 2019, 10:46 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
That just makes me think of a weirdly rebranded KFC.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:02 PM   #186
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Dump the old guy.

Trump is pseudo-living proof that a candidate need not have any experience, or vision, or much of anything except a "resonant" message. And maybe some help from Russia and Wikileaks.

Find some young, good looking guy (or gal) with a good line of **** and an open mind, get him or her elected, then surround him or her with a cabinet full of old hands.

Yeah, I know. You already tried that with Obama. And it worked. He kept the likes of Trump out of the Oval Office for 8 critical years while the economy recovered.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:02 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Solutions that are not all or none.

Recognition that capitalism is not evil but what we need is a balance between private and public options.
Capitalism is not evil? Citation please.
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Cracking eggs and shooting children in the head is the exact same thing.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:35 PM   #188
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Capitalism is not evil? Citation please.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:58 PM   #189
Roger Ramjets
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I have nothing I can back this up with objectively,
You can stop right there. Without objective data you have nothing.

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but my gut is telling...
My cat says you are wrong.

Logical Fallacy #135:
Quote:
Trust your Gut (also, Trust your Heart; Trust Your Feelings; Trust your Intuition; Trust your Instincts; Emotional Reasoning): A corrupt argument from pathos, the ancient fallacy of relying primarily on "gut feelings" rather than reason or evidence to make decisions.
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Old 21st February 2019, 11:59 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So no evidence to back up your claim then? I'd expect nothing less from a USAian liberal.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 12:10 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
So no evidence to back up your claim then? I'd expect nothing less from a USAian liberal.
Not enough time in the day.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 12:20 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Not enough time in the day.
Lol, right.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 02:02 AM   #193
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My reaction to his running is basically *sour face*


For three years I've had Bernie Bros attacking me on facebook and Twitter calling me "genocide supporter" and "murderer" because I voted Hillary in the general election and not Stein. You see, it goes like this, anyone not Bernie is a centralist, establishment or "globalist" and they are all in favor of genocide and war for profit or something. All I know is that they find out I voted Hillary and I get invective thrown at me until I block them.


I'm just through with it. His supporters online are little more than bullies that refuse to actually talk policy and go straight to screaming "murderer" if you are not immediately all in on Bernie and disagree at all that he was robbed of his rightful nomination and dear god help you if they find out you voted for Hillary and not Stein.



As such I look over the Democratic candidates and I vow to vote for whoever wins the nomination except Bernie. If he wins I'm just going to go seal myself in a cave somewhere and wait for death. His supporters are just too toxic and mean for me to ever be able to support or vote for him.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 02:44 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
My reaction to his running is basically *sour face*


For three years I've had Bernie Bros attacking me on facebook and Twitter calling me "genocide supporter" and "murderer" because I voted Hillary in the general election and not Stein. You see, it goes like this, anyone not Bernie is a centralist, establishment or "globalist" and they are all in favor of genocide and war for profit or something. All I know is that they find out I voted Hillary and I get invective thrown at me until I block them.


I'm just through with it. His supporters online are little more than bullies that refuse to actually talk policy and go straight to screaming "murderer" if you are not immediately all in on Bernie and disagree at all that he was robbed of his rightful nomination and dear god help you if they find out you voted for Hillary and not Stein.



As such I look over the Democratic candidates and I vow to vote for whoever wins the nomination except Bernie. If he wins I'm just going to go seal myself in a cave somewhere and wait for death. His supporters are just too toxic and mean for me to ever be able to support or vote for him.
As a Sanders supporter I've endured ************ from people on my own side as well, for so much as asking these fanatics how so and so is a "shill" without being paid and that people can disagree with you without being a corporate sellout necessarily.

But I suggest you look past the "Bernie Bros" on Facebook and Twitter. I can play the same game with centre-left neoliberals and establishment Democrats when I defend Republicans from smears I regard as unfair or just plain inaccurate. Nitpicking isn't a crime but I'm marked down 30-40 times on liberal hubs in Reddit for saying X mass shooter isn't necessarily a terrorist.

Sanders is nothing like the Bros you encounter online. In fact many of them were so upset with him for making the pragmatic decision of voting for Clinton in the general in 2016 that they nearly abandoned him.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 07:24 AM   #195
varwoche
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
My reaction to his running is basically *sour face*


For three years I've had Bernie Bros attacking me on facebook and Twitter calling me "genocide supporter" and "murderer" because I voted Hillary in the general election and not Stein. You see, it goes like this, anyone not Bernie is a centralist, establishment or "globalist" and they are all in favor of genocide and war for profit or something. All I know is that they find out I voted Hillary and I get invective thrown at me until I block them.
I'm not highly impressed with Bernie. Still, I'd support him in a heartbeat in a general election versus Trump. You're threatening to punch beat your nose into a bloody pulp until it falls off to spite your face.

More to the point though... It's not fair to blame a candidate for dumb things their followers say. And given your notable proclivity to leap to hyperbolic conclusions based on what anonymous bozos post on social media, you would be well advised to take a deep breath and not paint yourself into an idiotic corner.

Quote:
I'm just through with it. His supporters online are little more than bullies that refuse to actually talk policy and go straight to screaming "murderer" if you are not immediately all in on Bernie and disagree at all that he was robbed of his rightful nomination and dear god help you if they find out you voted for Hillary and not Stein.
Just realize that one of the biggest risks in 2020 is that dim-witted lefties, unable to grasp the existential threat that Trump poses, adopt the same sort of attitude about purity as you put on display here.

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As such I look over the Democratic candidates and I vow to vote for whoever wins the nomination except Bernie. If he wins I'm just going to go seal myself in a cave somewhere and wait for death. His supporters are just too toxic and mean for me to ever be able to support or vote for him.
About that hyperbole... You're boldly crossing the threshold into self-parody here.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 08:08 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Check out Andrew Yang's Policy Page:
https://www.yang2020.com/policies/

Where are Bernie's policies? Where are your candidates policies?
US Senator Cory Booker (New Jersey): No policy positions at all on website.

South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg (Indiana): No policy positions at all on website.

Former US Housing Secretary Julian Castro (Texas): No policy positions at all on website.

Former Congressman John Delaney (Maryland): Some policy positions here: https://www.johndelaney.com/issues/
(click each one to expand for bullet list of items)

Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard (Hawaii): No policy positions at all on website.

US Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (New York): No policy positions at all on website.

US Senator Kamala Harris (California): No policy positions at all on website.

Governor Jay Inslee (Washington): Priorities statement here, https://www.jayinslee.com/meet/priorities

US Senator Amy Klobuchar (Minnesota): No policy positions at all on website.

US Senator Bernie Sanders (Vermont): No policy positions at all on website.

US Senator Elizabeth Warren (Massachusetts): Policy positions here: https://elizabethwarren.com/issues/

https://www.dropbox.com/s/au1syd6r695p8kb/yang2020.PNG
These people spend months, if not years, testing and polling and putting together exploratory committees etc etc etc. They make their announcements with big press conferences and slickly produced videos and a already scheduled press tours...yet they over look having actual policies to publish?

I mean, I presume they have a list of policies. They must have some plan for if they go all the way. Something to sell us on other than talk show appearances. You wouldn't think that their website, where all of their campaign information is available, would have them prominently displayed.

Last edited by Donal; 22nd February 2019 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 08:13 AM   #197
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There is good reason to stay vague on your policies at this point.
No one seemed to care that Clinton had a full plan on many issues, and Trump didn't even have a picture of a napkin with scribbles on.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 08:52 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I'm not highly impressed with Bernie. Still, I'd support him in a heartbeat in a general election versus Trump.
Same here. Heck, I'd vote for COLONEL Sanders over Trump.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 09:32 AM   #199
Donal
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
There is good reason to stay vague on your policies at this point.
No one seemed to care that Clinton had a full plan on many issues, and Trump didn't even have a picture of a napkin with scribbles on.
Can we all agree that "better than Donald Trump" is not a high enough bar?
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Old 22nd February 2019, 09:36 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Can we all agree that "better than Donald Trump" is not a high enough bar?
Yes, but with the caveat that it's sufficient for making a choice in the General Election.
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