2020 General Election - Our First Poll - Page 2

Lurch · 31st March 2019, 02:16 AM

Not a Yank. But If I were...

Electoral reform and establishing systemic fairness are very important to me. End Jerrymandering and vote suppression. Take big money out of politics. Abolish the idiotic Electoral College. Make Government of, by and for the People.

Without basic fairness underpinning the whole racket, all else is just a partisan game that dispirits the populace.

Foolmewunz · 31st March 2019, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

The next poll, in a few months, will include:

Jobs
Climate Change
Education

Another excellent suggestion to add "Electoral and Campaign Reform".

Delvo · 31st March 2019, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by Lurch

Electoral reform and establishing systemic fairness are very important to me. End Jerrymandering and vote suppression.

To me, that's so fundamentally the most important issue that it ends up, in a way, the ONLY issue. Whatever other issue you want to consider, it utterly depends on straightening out the elections for anything to really get done on whatever that other issue is. Otherwise, as long as it remains possible for Republicans to keep getting more seats when Democrats get more votes, anything the Democrats accomplish will be undone the next time the Republicans are in power. For any real progress to be made, the party of absolute utter lunacy & pure evil needs to be kept out of power, which should be easy because they're not popular, if only we got rid of some of the ways the system is rigged in their favor against the voters.

Originally Posted by Lurch

Abolish the idiotic Electoral College.

That would take an Amendment, which won't happen because it would require the cooperation of at least some of the states that the Electoral College gives extra power to. Instead of abolished, it could be nullified once enough states join the popular-vote compact, but there's no way to enforce that.

And as long as we're talking about changes on that level, we might as well also consider abolishing the Senate or redistributing some of their powers (like approving judges without any input from the House Of Representatives), making Federal judgeships not life-long or not appointed by the President, and severely diminishing some of the dictator-like powers of the Presidency.

Foolmewunz · 31st March 2019, 08:51 PM

A wee bump. We need more voters to give the poll a bit more validity.

The first dozen to fifteen votes came down heavily on "Stop the Other Guy", then we went on a run with "Healthcare", climbing to almost 70% of respondents. As more votes trickle in, we're seeing more of an evening-out.

Regnad Kcin · 1st April 2019, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

A wee bump. We need more voters to give the poll a bit more validity.

The first dozen to fifteen votes came down heavily on "Stop the Other Guy", then we went on a run with "Healthcare", climbing to almost 70% of respondents. As more votes trickle in, we're seeing more of an evening-out.

That reminds me, dinner and dancing is also an important issue.

Skeptic Ginger · 1st April 2019, 10:16 PM

Sadly the creepiness factor is going to matter. I don't think Biden belongs in the assaulting women category. I think it's misunderstanding his motives (based on the fact there is not a lot of evidence to the contrary). But it's creepy. I'm sorry to say so, it feels unfair and I admit I don't want Biden to run because he's an old white guy and we (as in the Democrats) need a fresher candidate.

I don't want Sanders running either. I don't think Sanders or Biden have a sure-thing chance and we need a sure thing in 2020.

Venom · 1st April 2019, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I don't want Sanders running either. I don't think Sanders or Biden have a sure-thing chance and we need a sure thing in 2020.

So who's your best bet for "sure-thing" for 2020.

Skeptic Ginger · 1st April 2019, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

So who's your best bet for "sure-thing" for 2020.

Of all the candidates running, the top choice has not emerged but a number of those running are in my top category: Gillibrand, Booker, Harris, and Klobuchar.

Foolmewunz · 5th April 2019, 09:39 PM

Looks like the voting has tailed off. The Old Pro posters in USA Politics are apparently more concerned with important issues like whether Joe is a "sexual predator" or merely "creepy". Somehow that didn't make my poll. Nor did Mayor Pete's Commie Parent.

I'll try to add those significant-to-muckrakers issue in the following poll. Meanwhile, we're stuck with what appeared to be issues at the time of the original poll. But forty-eight responses is far from a viable sampling.

gabeygoat · 7th April 2019, 01:41 PM

For “other “ I’d include the environment and to stop doing Russia’s bidding

Venom · 7th April 2019, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

For “other “ I’d include the environment and to stop doing Russia’s bidding

Environment yes.

Russia's bidding...I don't know what you mean by that exactly.
Every president and Sec. of State since the Clinton era has been rather soft on Russia, pretending that the end of the Cold War meant we could just hold hands and onward towards a warm future together.

Foolmewunz · 7th April 2019, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

For “other “ I’d include the environment and to stop doing Russia’s bidding

Environment will be covered in the next poll, included with Climate Change. I need to find a "good people on both sides" way to word it, though. I'm trying to find out what issues will get people to vote, not how many support my or your pet favorite topics.

Doing Russia's Bidding might be broadened to "Doing Other Country's Bidding" (what with the major concern being that our current leader does whomever's bidding, Russia - North Korea - Saudi Arabia - he personally feels good about.) Again, though, I'm not trying to turn it into Democratic Talking Points but get a feel for what will turn out the votes.

Delvo · 8th April 2019, 03:06 AM

On the issue of phrasing: I couldn't tell what to think this means:

Shaking Up the Establishment (d.b.a. "drain the swamp")

Those sound like two separate issues to me.

"Drain the swamp" means get rid of corruption and corrupt people, such as by enacting & enforcing bribery laws, or banning/restricting lobbying, or ending private funding of campaigns and replacing it with a public funding scheme. (The idea of private funding always sounds to me like the kind of stuff you hear about the Roman Republic that led to it not being a Republic anymore.)

"Shaking up the establishment" just means bringing insanity and chaos; Tourette Government.

Foolmewunz · 8th April 2019, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Delvo

On the issue of phrasing: I couldn't tell what to think this means:

Shaking Up the Establishment (d.b.a. "drain the swamp")

Those sound like two separate issues to me.

"Drain the swamp" means get rid of corruption and corrupt people, such as by enacting & enforcing bribery laws, or banning/restricting lobbying, or ending private funding of campaigns and replacing it with a public funding scheme. (The idea of private funding always sounds to me like the kind of stuff you hear about the Roman Republic that led to it not being a Republic anymore.)

"Shaking up the establishment" just means bringing insanity and chaos; Tourette Government.

I disagree with your conclusion on "shaking up the establishment" but don't disagree with the poor wording of that selection. I should've worked on it further, particularly since "drain the swamp" became a Trump slogan. There was a lot of sentiment in '16 for bringing in new blood and there's a lot being said this time around, particularly amongst the young turks on the Democratic side.

JoeMorgue · 8th April 2019, 08:39 AM

I think both "shaking up the establishment" and "draining the swamp" generally to the same broad idea, that government had become effectively broken and the point where minor adjustments to it where not going to work.

Trump was "The Devil you know is better then the Devil you don't know" rule being broken. And Lord knows Trump certainly isn't the devil we knew.

Foolmewunz · 14th April 2019, 05:59 AM

Bump. Poll will stay open for another two weeks. A pattern is emerging, but the idea is to see how that holds in ensuing polls (maybe quarterly for the period up to the primaries and more often thereafter), so the more votes we get the better the overall data for comparison purposes.

Skeptic Ginger · 14th April 2019, 09:05 PM

Shaking up the establishment, draining the swamp are both nice slogans if they actually meant anything by the candidates muttering them.

Foolmewunz · 14th April 2019, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Shaking up the establishment, draining the swamp are both nice slogans if they actually meant anything by the candidates muttering them.

Well, we've had posters here espouse the opinion that the best reason for voting for him was that he's upsetting apple carts throughout the government. Those people apparently don't show up in our poll. And it's a common some-of-my-best-friends-are excuse when people are asked why the still support an obvious bigot, white nationalist, bully, creep, idiot.

I think the early voting pattern was telling, too. More than half were voting for the "stop the other guy" option. I believe a lot of us think that, and the first responses were the veterans of the political forums. Getting deeper into the electorate, we see that question receding from the Top Response category.

Foolmewunz · 20th April 2019, 08:52 PM

Bump.

We're kind frozen at 59 participants. That may wind up being the level of interest but I'm guessing there are a few stragglers.

Remember, this is just to get a toe in the water and provide a base for watching (seeing if) changes in voter attitudes and priorities as get through the primary and GE seasons.

Partisanship - Stopping the other "team"	19	31.15%
The Economy	21	34.43%
The Mueller Report	14	22.95%
Healthcare	38	62.30%
Immigration	19	31.15%
Shaking Up the Establishment (d.b.a. "drain the swamp")	4	6.56%
Controlling the Supreme Court	25	40.98%
Bringing God Back to Government - Getting God Out of Government	5	8.20%
LGBTQ rights and treatment under the law	19	31.15%
Other (please specify in a post)	13	21.31%
On Planet X All We Care About Is Who Can Bake A Cherry Pie	8	13.11%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

31st March 2019, 02:16 AM	#41
Lurch Muse Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 699	Not a Yank. But If I were... Electoral reform and establishing systemic fairness are very important to me. End Jerrymandering and vote suppression. Take big money out of politics. Abolish the idiotic Electoral College. Make Government of, by and for the People. Without basic fairness underpinning the whole racket, all else is just a partisan game that dispirits the populace.
Lurch Muse Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 699

31st March 2019, 05:39 AM	#42
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 40,145	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz The next poll, in a few months, will include: Jobs Climate Change Education Another excellent suggestion to add "Electoral and Campaign Reform".
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

31st March 2019, 08:51 PM	#44
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 40,145	A wee bump. We need more voters to give the poll a bit more validity. The first dozen to fifteen votes came down heavily on "Stop the Other Guy", then we went on a run with "Healthcare", climbing to almost 70% of respondents. As more votes trickle in, we're seeing more of an evening-out.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

1st April 2019, 07:39 PM	#45
Regnad Kcin Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 9,252	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz A wee bump. We need more voters to give the poll a bit more validity. The first dozen to fifteen votes came down heavily on "Stop the Other Guy", then we went on a run with "Healthcare", climbing to almost 70% of respondents. As more votes trickle in, we're seeing more of an evening-out. That reminds me, dinner and dancing is also an important issue.
Regnad Kcin Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 9,252	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

31st March 2019, 05:51 AM	#43
Delvo الشيطان الأبيض Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 7,814	Originally Posted by Lurch Electoral reform and establishing systemic fairness are very important to me. End Jerrymandering and vote suppression. To me, that's so fundamentally the most important issue that it ends up, in a way, the ONLY issue. Whatever other issue you want to consider, it utterly depends on straightening out the elections for anything to really get done on whatever that other issue is. Otherwise, as long as it remains possible for Republicans to keep getting more seats when Democrats get more votes, anything the Democrats accomplish will be undone the next time the Republicans are in power. For any real progress to be made, the party of absolute utter lunacy & pure evil needs to be kept out of power, which should be easy because they're not popular, if only we got rid of some of the ways the system is rigged in their favor against the voters. Originally Posted by Lurch Abolish the idiotic Electoral College. That would take an Amendment, which won't happen because it would require the cooperation of at least some of the states that the Electoral College gives extra power to. Instead of abolished, it could be nullified once enough states join the popular-vote compact, but there's no way to enforce that. And as long as we're talking about changes on that level, we might as well also consider abolishing the Senate or redistributing some of their powers (like approving judges without any input from the House Of Representatives), making Federal judgeships not life-long or not appointed by the President, and severely diminishing some of the dictator-like powers of the Presidency.

1st April 2019, 10:16 PM	#46
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 72,823	Sadly the creepiness factor is going to matter. I don't think Biden belongs in the assaulting women category. I think it's misunderstanding his motives (based on the fact there is not a lot of evidence to the contrary). But it's creepy. I'm sorry to say so, it feels unfair and I admit I don't want Biden to run because he's an old white guy and we (as in the Democrats) need a fresher candidate. I don't want Sanders running either. I don't think Sanders or Biden have a sure-thing chance and we need a sure thing in 2020.
	__________________ Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

1st April 2019, 10:18 PM	#47
Venom Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 2,159	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I don't want Sanders running either. I don't think Sanders or Biden have a sure-thing chance and we need a sure thing in 2020. So who's your best bet for "sure-thing" for 2020.

1st April 2019, 11:13 PM	#48
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 72,823	Originally Posted by Venom So who's your best bet for "sure-thing" for 2020. Of all the candidates running, the top choice has not emerged but a number of those running are in my top category: Gillibrand, Booker, Harris, and Klobuchar.
	__________________ Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

5th April 2019, 09:39 PM	#49
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 40,145	Looks like the voting has tailed off. The Old Pro posters in USA Politics are apparently more concerned with important issues like whether Joe is a "sexual predator" or merely "creepy". Somehow that didn't make my poll. Nor did Mayor Pete's Commie Parent. I'll try to add those significant-to-muckrakers issue in the following poll. Meanwhile, we're stuck with what appeared to be issues at the time of the original poll. But forty-eight responses is far from a viable sampling.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

7th April 2019, 01:41 PM	#50
gabeygoat Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,206	For “other “ I’d include the environment and to stop doing Russia’s bidding
	__________________ "May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq

7th April 2019, 03:38 PM	#51
Venom Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 2,159	Originally Posted by gabeygoat For “other “ I’d include the environment and to stop doing Russia’s bidding Environment yes. Russia's bidding...I don't know what you mean by that exactly. Every president and Sec. of State since the Clinton era has been rather soft on Russia, pretending that the end of the Cold War meant we could just hold hands and onward towards a warm future together.

7th April 2019, 10:43 PM	#52
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 40,145	Originally Posted by gabeygoat For “other “ I’d include the environment and to stop doing Russia’s bidding Environment will be covered in the next poll, included with Climate Change. I need to find a "good people on both sides" way to word it, though. I'm trying to find out what issues will get people to vote, not how many support my or your pet favorite topics. Doing Russia's Bidding might be broadened to "Doing Other Country's Bidding" (what with the major concern being that our current leader does whomever's bidding, Russia - North Korea - Saudi Arabia - he personally feels good about.) Again, though, I'm not trying to turn it into Democratic Talking Points but get a feel for what will turn out the votes.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. Last edited by Foolmewunz; 7th April 2019 at 10:45 PM.

8th April 2019, 03:06 AM	#53
Delvo الشيطان الأبيض Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 7,814	On the issue of phrasing: I couldn't tell what to think this means: Shaking Up the Establishment (d.b.a. "drain the swamp") Those sound like two separate issues to me. "Drain the swamp" means get rid of corruption and corrupt people, such as by enacting & enforcing bribery laws, or banning/restricting lobbying, or ending private funding of campaigns and replacing it with a public funding scheme. (The idea of private funding always sounds to me like the kind of stuff you hear about the Roman Republic that led to it not being a Republic anymore.) "Shaking up the establishment" just means bringing insanity and chaos; Tourette Government.

8th April 2019, 08:37 AM	#54
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 40,145	Originally Posted by Delvo On the issue of phrasing: I couldn't tell what to think this means: Shaking Up the Establishment (d.b.a. "drain the swamp") Those sound like two separate issues to me. "Drain the swamp" means get rid of corruption and corrupt people, such as by enacting & enforcing bribery laws, or banning/restricting lobbying, or ending private funding of campaigns and replacing it with a public funding scheme. (The idea of private funding always sounds to me like the kind of stuff you hear about the Roman Republic that led to it not being a Republic anymore.) "Shaking up the establishment" just means bringing insanity and chaos; Tourette Government. I disagree with your conclusion on "shaking up the establishment" but don't disagree with the poor wording of that selection. I should've worked on it further, particularly since "drain the swamp" became a Trump slogan. There was a lot of sentiment in '16 for bringing in new blood and there's a lot being said this time around, particularly amongst the young turks on the Democratic side.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

8th April 2019, 08:39 AM	#55
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 17,055	I think both "shaking up the establishment" and "draining the swamp" generally to the same broad idea, that government had become effectively broken and the point where minor adjustments to it where not going to work. Trump was "The Devil you know is better then the Devil you don't know" rule being broken. And Lord knows Trump certainly isn't the devil we knew.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

14th April 2019, 05:59 AM	#56
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 40,145	Bump. Poll will stay open for another two weeks. A pattern is emerging, but the idea is to see how that holds in ensuing polls (maybe quarterly for the period up to the primaries and more often thereafter), so the more votes we get the better the overall data for comparison purposes.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

14th April 2019, 09:05 PM	#57
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 72,823	Shaking up the establishment, draining the swamp are both nice slogans if they actually meant anything by the candidates muttering them.
	__________________ Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

14th April 2019, 09:13 PM	#58
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 40,145	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Shaking up the establishment, draining the swamp are both nice slogans if they actually meant anything by the candidates muttering them. Well, we've had posters here espouse the opinion that the best reason for voting for him was that he's upsetting apple carts throughout the government. Those people apparently don't show up in our poll. And it's a common some-of-my-best-friends-are excuse when people are asked why the still support an obvious bigot, white nationalist, bully, creep, idiot. I think the early voting pattern was telling, too. More than half were voting for the "stop the other guy" option. I believe a lot of us think that, and the first responses were the veterans of the political forums. Getting deeper into the electorate, we see that question receding from the Top Response category.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

20th April 2019, 08:52 PM	#59
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 40,145	Bump. We're kind frozen at 59 participants. That may wind up being the level of interest but I'm guessing there are a few stragglers. Remember, this is just to get a toe in the water and provide a base for watching (seeing if) changes in voter attitudes and priorities as get through the primary and GE seasons.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.