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Old 26th March 2019, 09:38 PM   #1
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What was America’s biggest politcal lie?

Representative Mo Brooks (Alabama) has a answer.
In a recent speech he compared today’s Democrats to Nazi Germany’s leaders in that they both perpetrated the Big Lie and that they were both socialists. His argument’s conclusion was simple:

"For more than two years, socialist Democrats and their fake news media allies - CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times, Washington Post and countless others - have perpetrated the biggest political lie, con, scam and fraud in American history," Brooks continued, arguing that Attorney General William P. Barr's conclusions exposed the accusations of collusion as "nothing but a big lie."

I wondered how other board members would answer the question in the thread’s title?

I wasn’t sure how to define the question. Does biggest lie mean the most outrageous? The most widely-believed? The most damaging? The most enduring? Something else?

“I am not a crook”? 1973
“I did not have sex with that woman”? 1998
“We did not, I repeat, did not trade weapons or anything else [to Iran] for hostages, nor will we,” 1985
“U-2 spy planes are not flying over the Soviet Union.” 1960
“Spain sunk the USS Maine.” 1898
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Old 26th March 2019, 09:46 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Representative Mo Brooks (Alabama) has a answer.
In a recent speech he compared today’s Democrats to Nazi Germany’s leaders in that they both perpetrated the Big Lie and that they were both socialists. His argument’s conclusion was simple:

"For more than two years, socialist Democrats and their fake news media allies - CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times, Washington Post and countless others - have perpetrated the biggest political lie, con, scam and fraud in American history," Brooks continued, arguing that Attorney General William P. Barr's conclusions exposed the accusations of collusion as "nothing but a big lie."
The way this propaganda has taken hold it's getting really scary.

Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I wondered how other board members would answer the question in the thread’s title?

I wasn’t sure how to define the question. Does biggest lie mean the most outrageous? The most widely-believed? The most damaging? The most enduring? Something else?

“I am not a crook”? 1973
“I did not have sex with that woman”? 1998 [much too minor]
“We did not, I repeat, did not trade weapons or anything else [to Iran] for hostages, nor will we,” 1985
“U-2 spy planes are not flying over the Soviet Union.” 1960
“Spain sunk the USS Maine.” 1898
ftfy

I think Saddam's WMDs is up there as is the whole slew of lies revealed in the Pentagon Papers.
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Old 26th March 2019, 10:31 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Representative Mo Brooks (Alabama) has a answer.
In a recent speech he compared today’s Democrats to Nazi Germany’s leaders in that they both perpetrated the Big Lie and that they were both socialists. His argument’s conclusion was simple:
The irony, of course, is that the Nazis never perpetrated the "Big Lie". The term as used by the Nazis was to describe the propaganda of the opposition (Jews)...just like Mo is doing.
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Old 26th March 2019, 10:49 PM   #4
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We are not going to discuss wether or not the Nazis were socialists.
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Old 26th March 2019, 11:54 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The way this propaganda has taken hold it's getting really scary.

ftfy

I think Saddam's WMDs is up there as is the whole slew of lies revealed in the Pentagon Papers.
Yes, I should have thought of that one.
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Old 26th March 2019, 11:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
We are not going to discuss wether or not the Nazis were socialists.
It does seem to be popping up with more frequency in the past year, but I th8nk I’m hesitant to call it the biggest in US history.
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Old 27th March 2019, 12:34 AM   #7
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Saddam's WMDs wasn't the biggest lie. It just had arguably the biggest consequence.
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Old 27th March 2019, 12:48 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Saddam's WMDs wasn't the biggest lie. It just had arguably the biggest consequence.
I'd say the biggest lie in America's history is that paying taxes is the same thing as oppression and requires a revolution.
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Old 27th March 2019, 03:28 AM   #9
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Hillary in a landslide
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Old 27th March 2019, 03:40 AM   #10
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Democrats are socialists? Not even close.
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Old 27th March 2019, 04:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
What was America’s biggest politcal lie?
I don't know about biggest, but for most blatant, "I said Tim Cook, Apple" is right up there.
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Old 27th March 2019, 04:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I'd say the biggest lie in America's history is that paying taxes is the same thing as oppression and requires a revolution.
Perhaps there is a lesson about the consequences of import tariffs?
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Old 27th March 2019, 05:08 AM   #13
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The Lost Cause.
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Old 27th March 2019, 05:32 AM   #14
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This sort of thing is hard to scale in some exact "big, bigger, biggest" sort of way, but I'd put the Red Scare up there. It was ground zero for "There's a hidden subversive element in the government, and if you disagree you are by definition part of that element." mentality.
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Old 27th March 2019, 05:44 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This sort of thing is hard to scale in some exact "big, bigger, biggest" sort of way, but I'd put the Red Scare up there. It was ground zero for "There's a hidden subversive element in the government, and if you disagree you are by definition part of that element." mentality.
Though the Soviets, of course, did try to infiltrate the US for intelligence and counter-intelligence purposes. So it's not as much as lie as it's an exaggeration.
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Old 27th March 2019, 05:45 AM   #16
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The whole schtick about equality and freedom being blared about to justify the Revolution and pretty much everything afterwards, while maintaining slavery for a century after and disenfranchisement of women and minorities afterwards, that's a rather tall lie that gets in one's face.

But on a more practical level I'd have to say the treaties the US kept making and breaking with the Native Americans. Hundreds of agreements and hundreds of betrayals. There was never the slightest good faith on the part of the US with those treaties, and we're still screwing them over to this day.
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Old 27th March 2019, 05:51 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Though the Soviets, of course, did try to infiltrate the US for intelligence and counter-intelligence purposes. So it's not as much as lie as it's an exaggeration.
Lies with a hint of truth are the worst ones.

The worst kind of lies are the ones that can be defended with a "Well technically...."
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Old 27th March 2019, 06:05 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
The Lost Cause.
This, by a mile...
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Old 27th March 2019, 06:19 AM   #19
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That America was born civilized.
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Old 27th March 2019, 06:58 AM   #20
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'Indians'.
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Old 27th March 2019, 07:01 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
This, by a mile...
Yeah, that's a good contender.

But is it a country mile?
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Old 27th March 2019, 07:02 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
The Lost Cause.
This with an honorable mention to "America was founded as a Christian nation."
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Old 27th March 2019, 07:21 AM   #23
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Quite a bit of the Declaration of Independence.
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Old 27th March 2019, 07:25 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Quite a bit of the Declaration of Independence.
Yeah it should say "that all men are created separate but equal" or somesuch.
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Old 27th March 2019, 07:31 AM   #25
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Old 27th March 2019, 07:32 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The whole schtick about equality and freedom being blared about to justify the Revolution and pretty much everything afterwards, while maintaining slavery for a century after and disenfranchisement of women and minorities afterwards, that's a rather tall lie that gets in one's face.

But on a more practical level I'd have to say the treaties the US kept making and breaking with the Native Americans. Hundreds of agreements and hundreds of betrayals. There was never the slightest good faith on the part of the US with those treaties, and we're still screwing them over to this day.
I'd agree with this.

And if it needs to be a single statement, I'd nominate:

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"

To lead your declaration with that and then own people for almost three quarters of a century afterwards has the be the most blantant lie, the most consequential and the most central to the heart of our country.
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Old 27th March 2019, 07:33 AM   #27
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There's an interesting miniseries out there in Internet land, American History’s Biggest Fibs with Lucy Worsley, that's worth watching (IM0)
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Old 27th March 2019, 08:31 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Saddam's WMDs wasn't the biggest lie. It just had arguably the biggest consequence.
I've never been convinced that it was a lie, as I think the Bush Administration people believed it when they said it. Sure, they indulged in a lot of cherry picking, ignoring evidence that contradicted their beliefs, and embracing questionable evidence that supported them, but, I think they genuinely believed that Iran had WMD's when they were pushing for the invasion. I also think they truly believed that once they got rid of Saddam, occupying Iran would be a piece of cake. They were, of course completely wrong in both beliefs.
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Old 27th March 2019, 08:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Democrats are socialists? Not even close.
Definitely. However, in the Republican universe, anybody that wants to raise taxes, or offer health care to non-rich people is a socialist.
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Old 27th March 2019, 09:16 AM   #30
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Brooks' own "Democrats=Socialists=Nazis" is a pretty big lie all on its own.
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Old 27th March 2019, 09:17 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Saddam's WMDs wasn't the biggest lie. It just had arguably the biggest consequence.
Then how are you measuring the size of the lie?
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Old 27th March 2019, 09:19 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't know about biggest, but for most blatant, "I said Tim Cook, Apple" is right up there.
Really hard to pick which of Trump's 9,000+ lies are the biggest.

I'd go with:
I have a great health plan.
Mexico will pay for the wall.
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Old 27th March 2019, 09:20 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This sort of thing is hard to scale in some exact "big, bigger, biggest" sort of way, but I'd put the Red Scare up there. It was ground zero for "There's a hidden subversive element in the government, and if you disagree you are by definition part of that element." mentality.
Gosh yes, that one belongs up there with the top contenders.
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Old 27th March 2019, 09:23 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
There's an interesting miniseries out there in Internet land, American History’s Biggest Fibs with Lucy Worsley, that's worth watching (IM0)
"In my zero"?
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Old 27th March 2019, 09:24 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
“I am not a crook”? 1973
The funny thing is that people forget this had nothing to do with Watergate or Obstruction of Justice. It was about lying on his taxes(which he also totally did).
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Old 27th March 2019, 09:25 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I've never been convinced that it was a lie, as I think the Bush Administration people believed it when they said it. Sure, they indulged in a lot of cherry picking, ignoring evidence that contradicted their beliefs, and embracing questionable evidence that supported them, but, I think they genuinely believed that Iran had WMD's when they were pushing for the invasion. I also think they truly believed that once they got rid of Saddam, occupying Iran would be a piece of cake. They were, of course completely wrong in both beliefs.
It doesn't matter they believed in their lie. But truth be told they fabricated evidence, they didn't just cherry pick.
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Old 27th March 2019, 09:48 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Brooks' own "Democrats=Socialists=Nazis" is a pretty big lie all on its own.
The Nazis were much better organized and actually cared about their country.
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Old 27th March 2019, 09:49 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Belz...
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
There's an interesting miniseries out there in Internet land, American History’s Biggest Fibs with Lucy Worsley, that's worth watching (IM0)
"In my zero"?

Keep your fingers out of my zero...without my permission of course.
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Old 27th March 2019, 10:23 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
"In my zero"?
Jeez, you just can't sneak anything by anybody anymore, can you ?

there's also a British History's 8iggest fibs as well.
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Old 27th March 2019, 12:17 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Then how are you measuring the size of the lie?
How blatantly untrue it is in the face of strong evidence to the contrary.

There were conflicting reports on Saddam's arsenal and Bush, Cheney and let the warhawk in them lead. I mean it was like the assault on the bin Laden compound, only Obama didn't make it public until after the fact.
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