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Old 4th April 2019, 02:37 AM   #1
cullennz
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So according to some, all Trump voters are racist sexists

Edit: Should add these MAGA hat "While" threads are getting a bit silly before saying......................

OK

Let's have a looksy

According to some of the left on here anyone who voted Trump is a racist or sexist, and MAGA hats should not be tolerated.

Let us check things I like to call............FACTS

Let us look at race

Now apparently 8% of blacks are self racist and 29% of Asians and Hispanics

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cp...s_race_624.png

I have meet very few self racist people

Let us visit the sexes, because as they say only sexist males would vote Trump

Well look at that. 42% of women are misogynists.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cp...gender_624.png

But hey. Who cares about facts?

All Trump voters are racist misogynists

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37922587
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by zooterkin; 4th April 2019 at 06:27 AM. Reason: Rule 5
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Old 4th April 2019, 02:43 AM   #2
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How about this..."All racists and sexists tend to be Trump voters."
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Old 4th April 2019, 02:50 AM   #3
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All Trump Voters don't see racism and sexism as flaws enough to not vote for someone.
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Old 4th April 2019, 02:52 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
How about this..."All racists and sexists tend to be Trump voters."
Apart from that not even being possible, it isn't what is being claimed by some of the left on here.

Other way round.

All Trump voters are automatically racist or misogynists

I would mention the ones calling them automatically Nazis, or white supremacist, but they kind of look silly without me having to.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 4th April 2019, 02:58 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
All Trump Voters don't see racism and sexism as flaws enough to not vote for someone.
I think you might find, that is **** about face

All Trump voters didn't trust Clinton enough to vote for her, even with Trumps obvious scummy failings.

Which kind of says a lot more of Clinton than Trump
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 4th April 2019, 03:05 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think you might find, that is **** about face

All Trump voters didn't trust Clinton enough to vote for her, even with Trumps obvious scummy failings.

Which kind of says a lot more of Clinton than Trump
Yes decades of slander and massive sexism certainly helped trump, but that isn't what won him the nomination. The love of his sexism and racism is what did that. We know that lots of white women for example want rich powerful men to grab their pussies. They were clear on this.
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Old 4th April 2019, 03:08 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yes decades of slander and massive sexism certainly helped trump, but that isn't what won him the nomination. The love of his sexism and racism is what did that. We know that lots of white women for example want rich powerful men to grab their pussies. They were clear on this.
You think 42% of American women voters are people who want rich powerful men to grab their pussys and you are calling THEM self misogynists and you not a misogynist?

Interesting take
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 4th April 2019, 03:33 AM   #8
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Thought that might happen

May I ask something I have been wondering?

Why are the stupid MAGA hats threads not moved here as well?
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 4th April 2019, 03:40 AM   #9
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My view is that voting for Trump in 2016 was at best stupid. Anyone still supporting him is likely racist, misogynistic or... still stupid.
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Old 4th April 2019, 03:46 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
My view is that voting for Trump in 2016 was at best stupid. Anyone still supporting him is likely racist, misogynistic or... still stupid.

OK. That is one way of looking at it

But his current favouribility stats don't seem to correlate
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:04 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
According to some of the left on here anyone who voted Trump is a racist or sexist, and MAGA hats should not be tolerated.
Cite?

Quote:
Let us check things I like to call............FACTS
Excellent. Then you'll have no problem whatsoever providing citations for your claims.

Quote:
Let us visit the sexes, because as they say only sexist males would vote Trump
Cite?

Quote:
All Trump voters are racist misogynists
Cite?
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:12 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Cite?



Excellent. Then you'll have no problem whatsoever providing citations for your claims.



Cite?



Cite?
Just read the MAGA hat threads

This stuff is not rocket science
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:20 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Cite?



Excellent. Then you'll have no problem whatsoever providing citations for your claims.



Cite?



Cite?
And there are graphs and a link in there to the sex and race breakdown of of votes.

Did you not actually read it?
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:30 AM   #14
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I'll be curious what the vote breakdown will be for the reelection campaign. I fully expect the non white and women % to fall. Candidate trump may have been palatable to these groups (for some reason), but I think president Trump has been a real learning experience.

Time will tell. Of all these groups, I think women will swing the most
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:40 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You think 42% of American women voters are people who want rich powerful men to grab their pussys and you are calling THEM self misogynists and you not a misogynist?

Interesting take
Hey they needed to rationalize his bragging about sexual assault somehow. I mean clearly those women were asking for it by associating with anyone as notorious as Trump in anyway of course.
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:47 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
OK. That is one way of looking at it

But his current favouribility stats don't seem to correlate
I don't see how. 40-45% of the US electorate is a combination of racist, misogynistic, homophobic and stupid. Seems right to me.
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
...

But hey. Who cares about facts?

All Trump voters are racist misogynists
I agree that not all Trump voters were racist/misogynist. Some stood to gain, some wanted to shake up the system, some had single issues they cared about, some stick to their team no matter what, some bought the lies or weren't paying attention.

However, I do not agree that it is a fact that women can't be misogynistic or people of colour can't be racist.
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:56 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Time will tell. Of all these groups, I think women will swing the most
But not older white women, I suspect.
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:57 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Just read the MAGA hat threads

This stuff is not rocket science
Feel free to quote anything that you think is relevant. Since you're so concerned with FACTS.
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Old 4th April 2019, 05:44 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
But hey. Who cares about facts?

All Trump voters are racist misogynists

All Trump voters didn't mind supporting a racist and misogynist.

Draw your own conclusions.
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Old 4th April 2019, 05:50 AM   #21
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Realistically, the two party system forces people to make less than ideal choices. Unless a voter simply stays home or throws their vote away for a third party, they must choose between two candidates, neither of which they may like very much.

I suspect that many people who voted for Trump did not do so with great enthusiasm. Many of these marginal voters could easily abandon the dear leader in light of his disastrous first term.

I wouldn't take a vote for Trump in 2016 as a full throated endorsement of Trumpism. I suspect we will find that many of these voters are very much up for grabs in 2020. If the 2018 midterms are any indication, many of them are already crossing the fence or staying home.
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Old 4th April 2019, 06:03 AM   #22
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Sure, the racist misogynist might have been the lesser evil in the eyes of some - but it doesn't change the fact that they've voted and probably donated to a racist misogynist.
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Old 4th April 2019, 06:09 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Sure, the racist misogynist might have been the lesser evil in the eyes of some - but it doesn't change the fact that they've voted and probably donated to a racist misogynist.
Right, but the point is that doing so doesn't make them either racist or misogynist.
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Old 4th April 2019, 06:13 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think you might find, that is **** about face

All Trump voters didn't trust Clinton enough to vote for her, even with Trumps obvious scummy failings.

Which kind of says a lot more of Clinton than Trump
Trump voters also chose Trump over 16 other Republican candidates, which I’m sure is somehow Clinton’s fault too.
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Old 4th April 2019, 06:13 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Right, but the point is that doing so doesn't make them either racist or misogynist.
It does make them cool with racism and misogyny tho.
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Old 4th April 2019, 06:19 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It does make them cool with racism and misogyny tho.
It also means they view racism and misogyny as lesser evils. I wonder what the greater evils are?
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Old 4th April 2019, 06:20 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It does make them cool with racism and misogyny tho.
What are you going to do? You gotta run the country with the voters you have, not the voters you wish you had.

yelling "you are all trash people" is not a viable political strategy. Democrats have to peel off as many of these voters as they can, or at least get them apathetic enough that they don't show up, while still keeping enthusiasm and turnout high among their own base.

It's not apologism for racism or sexism to acknowledge that many people who pulled the lever for Trump aren't alt-right MAGA hatters stocking up ammo for their next mass shooting.
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Old 4th April 2019, 06:22 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
What are you going to do? You gotta run the country with the voters you have, not the voter you wish you had.

yelling "you are all trash people" is not a viable political strategy. Democrats have to peel off as many of these voters as they can, or at least get them apathetic enough that they don't show up, while still keeping enthusiasm and turnout high among their own base.
I dunno. That wasn't really the issue.

It would seem roughly 40-45% of the US electorate are bigoted or stupid. That's just a reality everyone has to deal with. Politicians could pander to these people - the GOP strategy - which will lead to "bad things" in the future. They can ignore them - the DEM strategy - and hope to clinch the majority.

I don't think pandering to them is right in any circumstance.
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Old 4th April 2019, 06:34 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I dunno. That wasn't really the issue.

It would seem roughly 40-45% of the US electorate are bigoted or stupid. That's just a reality everyone has to deal with. Politicians could pander to these people - the GOP strategy - which will lead to "bad things" in the future. They can ignore them - the DEM strategy - and hope to clinch the majority.

I don't think pandering to them is right in any circumstance.
It's a question of priorities. What is more important, removing Trump from a position where he can enact tremendous harm, or maintaining moral purity?

Sure, plenty of these voters didn't see Trump's obvious sexism, racism, nativism, and all the rest as obvious dealbreakers. This itself is a moral failing. Many trump voters see these things as themselves worthy goals, but not all. Some of them saw all of that as acceptable so long as their best interests were met, which is pretty repugnant.

It should be the goal of the Democratic party to show that their interests can be met without all the morally repugnant baggage. This means you have to engage with these people who have, by some measure, engage in pretty severe moral failings in their roles as voters.

Such is life, there is no going back to erase this sin. We can either reach out to stop the madness, or beat them over the head with a stick. We can't do both.
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Old 4th April 2019, 06:37 AM   #30
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We've touched on it before that we have several different, related and overlapping but with some key differences, definitions of racism floating around in general discourse.

I'd wager the circle is squared by accounting for those different usages.
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Old 4th April 2019, 06:57 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's a question of priorities. What is more important, removing Trump from a position where he can enact tremendous harm, or maintaining moral purity?

Sure, plenty of these voters didn't see Trump's obvious sexism, racism, nativism, and all the rest as obvious dealbreakers. This itself is a moral failing. Many trump voters see these things as themselves worthy goals, but not all. Some of them saw all of that as acceptable so long as their best interests were met, which is pretty repugnant.

It should be the goal of the Democratic party to show that their interests can be met without all the morally repugnant baggage. This means you have to engage with these people who have, by some measure, engage in pretty severe moral failings in their roles as voters.

Such is life, there is no going back to erase this sin. We can either reach out to stop the madness, or beat them over the head with a stick. We can't do both.
I don't think it's enough to remove Trump. Trumpism has spread through the Republican party and base. The next guy will possibly be even worse. It's Trumpism that needs to be stamped out. That's done - imo of course - by marginalizing Trump voters at the polls as well as socially. You can call that "hitting them over the head", but since we aren't dealing with bright people here, I'd say child rearing tactics apply: they need to be told what they did was wrong.
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Old 4th April 2019, 07:51 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think you might find, that is **** about face

All Trump voters didn't trust Clinton enough to vote for her, even with Trumps obvious scummy failings.

Which kind of says a lot more of Clinton than Trump
Actually it says more about Trump voters. I didn't like or trust Clinton, but I also wasn't willfully ignorant enough to think Trump wasn't even worse.

There is so much evidence about what a corrupt, lying greedy, sexist, racist, amoral, narcissist Trump is that the only conclusion I can come to is they are willfully ignorant
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Old 4th April 2019, 07:55 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It does make them cool with racism and misogyny tho.
No, it makes them less concerned with it than the consequences of voting the other way.
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Old 4th April 2019, 08:05 AM   #34
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I recommend listening to Jonah Goldberg's the Remnant podcast and to a lesser extent Ben Shapiro. Both are not Trumpists but they are conservative. A good portion of Goldbergs discussions are just sighs. Shapiro does a regular good trump bad trump segment. It will give you incite insight into reasons why conservatives might vote for Trump other than hating brown people and women. If you are interested, which I doubt many are.

Unfortunately not a freudian slip just a typo. Shapiro is pretty......aggravating at times. I find Goldberg to be much more....reasonable and reasoned.

Last edited by ahhell; 4th April 2019 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 4th April 2019, 08:11 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Right, but the point is that doing so doesn't make them either racist or misogynist.
Well, the question then is: is it possible for someone to realistically support an overt bigot without being considered a bigot themselves.

After all, (at the risk of godwinning the thread), if someone said "I really like that Hitler guy. But I'm not a bigot... I just like the fact that he contributed to the creation of the VW Beetle", you would assume that the person really is a bigot (since the racism espoused by Hitler should override anything else he did).

Similarly, even if someone voted for Trump because you, I don't know, agree with him that "Global warming is a chinese hoax" (or whatever reasons you may have for supporting him)... you simply can't separate his racism from the rest of his persona/policies. A Trump voter picked him, accepting the fact that his racism and bigotry would disproportionately harm millions of Americans. Yet they did so. (And, it should be noted, by doing so they picked a guy who was a well known con artist who had been lying more than any other candidate.)
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Old 4th April 2019, 08:22 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
All Trump Voters don't see racism and sexism as flaws enough to not vote for someone.
Which, IMO, is almost certainly a consequence of subscribing to racist and sexist lines of thinking.
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Old 4th April 2019, 08:52 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I recommend listening to Jonah Goldberg's the Remnant podcast and to a lesser extent Ben Shapiro. Both are not Trumpists but they are conservative. A good portion of Goldbergs discussions are just sighs. Shapiro does a regular good trump bad trump segment. It will give you incite into reasons why conservatives might vote for Trump other than hating brown people and women. If you are interested, which I doubt many are.
Freudian slip?

in·cite
/inˈsīt/
verb
encourage or stir up (violent or unlawful behavior).
"the offense of inciting racial hatred"
synonyms: stir up, whip up, work up, encourage, fan the flames of, stoke up, fuel, kindle, ignite, inflame, stimulate, instigate, provoke, excite, arouse, awaken, waken, inspire, trigger, spark off, ferment, foment, agitate for/against; cause, generate, bring about
"Rico was arrested for inciting racial hatred"
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Old 4th April 2019, 09:00 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I recommend listening to Jonah Goldberg's the Remnant podcast and to a lesser extent Ben Shapiro. Both are not Trumpists but they are conservative. A good portion of Goldbergs discussions are just sighs. Shapiro does a regular good trump bad trump segment. It will give you
incite
insight into reasons why conservatives might vote for Trump other than hating brown people and women. If you are interested, which I doubt many are.

Unfortunately not a freudian slip just a typo. Shapiro is pretty......aggravating at times. I find Goldberg to be much more....reasonable and reasoned.
They can finally get it so that all abortion is illegal, and women are constantly monitored for their menses. That kind of christian dominion is also a major selling point to conservatives.
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Old 4th April 2019, 09:04 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Which, IMO, is almost certainly a consequence of subscribing to racist and sexist lines of thinking.
Sure, but racism isn't binary, with racist and non-racists and nothing in-between. It's a spectrum. If we write off everyone that isn't pure as the driven snow as nonredeemable, then the non-racists are totally screwed just based on the numbers.

I think it's possible to ally with people with some degree of racial animus, so long as that alliance does not involve acting out those thoughts. There are plenty of people out there with less than great ideas about race that don't really treat that racism as high priority compared to other, more practical concerns. The fact that Trump has pretty much failed completely on his pseudo-populist economic message presents an opportunity to appeal to these people, solely on practical matters, and let their racist ideas remain in their hearts never to be realized.

I don't really see "purify the nation of racism, then achieve political victory" as a practical approach to politics. It may be a worthy goal, but sadly beyond our reach. I will not sacrifice a less racist government that is possible simply because it fails to be the perfect, non-racist utopia we may dream about.
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Old 4th April 2019, 09:05 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Just read the MAGA hat threads

This stuff is not rocket science
Translation: ok, you got me there, I have nothing.
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