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Old 4th April 2019, 09:15 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I recommend listening to Jonah Goldberg's the Remnant podcast and to a lesser extent Ben Shapiro. Both are not Trumpists but they are conservative. A good portion of Goldbergs discussions are just sighs. Shapiro does a regular good trump bad trump segment. It will give you incite insight into reasons why conservatives might vote for Trump other than hating brown people and women. If you are interested, which I doubt many are.

Unfortunately not a freudian slip just a typo. Shapiro is pretty......aggravating at times. I find Goldberg to be much more....reasonable and reasoned.
Ben Shapiro is an idiot and a conman. He couldn't argue himself out of a paper bag. That some people find him insightful or smart is downright insulting.
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Old 4th April 2019, 09:26 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You think 42% of American women voters are people who want rich powerful men to grab their pussys and you are calling THEM self misogynists and you not a misogynist?

Interesting take
Many of them certainly don't care enough about sexism or bigotry to stop themselves from voting for Trump, who is a completely shameless sexist bigot.

It's not exactly news that women, in almost all countries of the world, are a major culprit in abetting and supporting sexism of all kinds. Most of them willingly submit, however grudgingly, to social customs and laws that deprive themselves of even basic rights and freedoms that men enjoy while at the same time often aiding in repressing those who dare resist.

Whether out of fear, a desire for material gain or simply because they have been convinced that the repressive sexist customs and laws they live under are just, the people who resign themselves to servitude have a tendency to aid their oppressors. In a sense, the women of countries like Saudi Arabia have themselves to blame for their lack of freedom. The same applies to women in America that condone and excuse sexist bigots like Trump.
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Old 4th April 2019, 09:26 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Edit: Should add these MAGA hat "While" threads are getting a bit silly before saying......................

OK

Let's have a looksy

According to some of the left on here anyone who voted Trump is a racist or sexist, and MAGA hats should not be tolerated.

Let us check things I like to call............FACTS

Let us look at race

Now apparently 8% of blacks are self racist and 29% of Asians and Hispanics

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cp...s_race_624.png

I have meet very few self racist people

Let us visit the sexes, because as they say only sexist males would vote Trump

Well look at that. 42% of women are misogynists.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cp...gender_624.png

But hey. Who cares about facts?

All Trump voters are racist misogynists

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37922587
TBD should be along soon to disqualify your entire OP because it runs afoul of the imaginary Rule of So.

That would be the best outcome, frankly, because your thought process is a mess. You don't even understand what the actual argument is.

The present argument is that anyone supporting Trump (not simply people "who voted for Trump") after two years of his misanthropic kleptomaniacal leadership is EITHER:
> An outright racist.
> A racist enabler.
> A racist apologist.
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Old 4th April 2019, 09:38 AM   #44
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In a world where noone is "pure as driven snow" imo its a lot more important to ask what the person is trying to become than what they are now. Hitching their wagon to a racist/sexist icon like Trump says a lot about their own goals. That's probably where a lot of the generalizing comes from - it's hard to see how someone can follow a person like that with the cultlike fervor people show unless their personal goal is to become more like him.

Given the choice between 2 equally racist people in the middle gray area I'd spend time reaching out to someone who's trying to move out of that mindset. I'd write off someone who's doubling down and, for instance, spending all their time at Trump rallies screaming about walls.
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Old 4th April 2019, 09:40 AM   #45
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Re:OP: According to some, the Earth is flat
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Old 4th April 2019, 09:58 AM   #46
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Thanks to most everyone for following an OP that is, shall we say, wanting with an interesting discussion.
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:06 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
All Trump Voters don't see racism and sexism as flaws enough to not vote for someone.
Bingo!
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:11 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Apart from that not even being possible, it isn't what is being claimed by some of the left on here.

Other way round.

All Trump voters are automatically racist or misogynists

I would mention the ones calling them automatically Nazis, or white supremacist, but they kind of look silly without me having to.
Do keep in mind some blacks don't look on other blacks in a good way. For example, Clarence Thomas is against affirmative action for a number of reasons including 'blacks could do better if they wanted to, look at him'.

And people like Phyllis Schlafly, surely there is misogyny there against whole populations of women.

So your premise that if you are black or a woman you cannot have biases against your own kind is fallible.
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:14 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think you might find, that is **** about face

All Trump voters didn't trust Clinton enough to vote for her, even with Trumps obvious scummy failings.

Which kind of says a lot more of Clinton than Trump
How about this: anyone who thinks Trump with his failings is better than Clinton overlooked some very serious racism and misogyny.
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:18 AM   #50
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Okay so let's run with this.

Let's hit the I believe button. "All Trump Supporters are Racist." Let's assume that variable for a minute.

Okay and? Where do we go from there?

Calling them racist, whether it's 100% true or is being used as a hyperbolic insult or anywhere inbetween, isn't going to make them go away.
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:59 AM   #51
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Would President Trump's treatment of Israel be called anti-Semite? Who will receive the Jewish vote in 2020? Democrats as usual? Things change.

Chris B.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:23 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ben Shapiro is an idiot and a conman. He couldn't argue himself out of a paper bag. That some people find him insightful or smart is downright insulting.
That post is merely wishful thinking and a little self contradictory. You would like that your opponents were dimwits I realize but that will not serve you well.

Self contradictory, because if he's conman, he's clearly smart enough and has enough insight into the conservative mind to make a living as a conman.

This reminds of the conservative that occasionally say things like they don't care why terrorists become terrorists. That's fine, but Sun Tzu had something to say about your chances of success.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay so let's run with this.

Let's hit the I believe button. "All Trump Supporters are Racist." Let's assume that variable for a minute.

Okay and? Where do we go from there?

Calling them racist, whether it's 100% true or is being used as a hyperbolic insult or anywhere inbetween, isn't going to make them go away.
But it does allow me to dismiss there arguments.

Last edited by ahhell; 4th April 2019 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:29 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
But it does allow me to dismiss there arguments.
And what does that accomplish?

It's 2019. You can't quarantine an idea anymore. Not engaging with people because they are wrong doesn't work anymore.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:35 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Would President Trump's treatment of Israel be called anti-Semite? Who will receive the Jewish vote in 2020? Democrats as usual?
First of all, political policy towards Israel is not exactly a perfect measure as to whether someone is an 'anti-semite'. The world is filled with racists who claim "I'm not racist... I have a friend who's a minority".

Secondly, even if Trump is not bigoted against jewish people, that doesn't mean he doesn't have other bigotries (like towards Muslims, hispanics, black people, etc.)
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:36 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I recommend listening to Jonah Goldberg's the Remnant podcast and to a lesser extent Ben Shapiro. Both are not Trumpists but they are conservative. A good portion of Goldbergs discussions are just sighs. Shapiro does a regular good trump bad trump segment. It will give you incite insight into reasons why conservatives might vote for Trump other than hating brown people and women. If you are interested, which I doubt many are.

Unfortunately not a freudian slip just a typo. Shapiro is pretty......aggravating at times. I find Goldberg to be much more....reasonable and reasoned.
Max Boot, Jennifer Rubin, And George Will are much better represetnives of conservatives who can't stand Trump then Goldberge or Shapiro.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:45 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Edit: Should add these MAGA hat "While" threads are getting a bit silly before saying......................

OK

Let's have a looksy

According to some of the left on here anyone who voted Trump is a racist or sexist, and MAGA hats should not be tolerated.

Let us check things I like to call............FACTS
Facts? Until you show us the posts that prove your claim, all you have is bare assertion.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:46 AM   #57
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So after slogging through both “MAGA” threads, and now this one, I have one question.
Is there a solution or do we just need to split the country to avoid a civil war?

The partisan call out community that exists on both sides are very irritating to me. One side calls the other racist misogynists with no compromise, the other side claims that their opponents are against free speech and seeks to silence any political dissidence.

Is there a way that the left and the right can dial down the rhetoric and start to treat each other like humans again without painting everyone who does not side with them as horrible racist, sexist, authoritarian anti-democratic monsters, or should we try to carve the country into a couple separate countries before the civil war starts?
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:49 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
So after slogging through both “MAGA” threads, and now this one, I have one question.
Is there a solution or do we just need to split the country to avoid a civil war?
Go... out.... side.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:55 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay so let's run with this.

Let's hit the I believe button. "All Trump Supporters are Racist." Let's assume that variable for a minute.

Okay and? Where do we go from there?

Calling them racist, whether it's 100% true or is being used as a hyperbolic insult or anywhere inbetween, isn't going to make them go away.
True, correctly identifying Trump supporters as 'bigots' won't make them go away. But, knowing more about "your opponents" should never be considered a bad thing (even if that knowledge is a little distasteful). Knowing what they're like helps you understand the best way to engage them (or, sadly, when trying to find common ground is a waste of time.)
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:57 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
True, correctly identifying Trump supporters as 'bigots' won't make them go away. But, knowing more about "your opponents" should never be considered a bad thing (even if that knowledge is a little distasteful). Knowing what they're like helps you understand the best way to engage them (or, sadly, when trying to find common ground is a waste of time.)
And that's all 100% true, but that's really doesn't seem to be what anyone is doing.

I haven't seen anything; real world or hypothetical, that happens past the "You're a racist, case close" stage.

Almost as if a constant state of impotent outrage is where people want to be but that's just crazy talk from the resident "Both sides are the same" guy who doesn't hate the BAD ORANGE MAN enough.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:57 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
That post is merely wishful thinking and a little self contradictory. You would like that your opponents were dimwits I realize but that will not serve you well.

Self contradictory, because if he's conman, he's clearly smart enough and has enough insight into the conservative mind to make a living as a conman.
Not really, we have not seen a lot of evidence that he is a successful conman, it isn't like he has gotten loans from reputable banks for years, but rather banks that get hit with huge charges about laundering money for Russian kleptocrats.

Hell he couldn't even launder enough money through his casinos to keep them afloat.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:06 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
First of all, political policy towards Israel is not exactly a perfect measure as to whether someone is an 'anti-semite'. The world is filled with racists who claim "I'm not racist... I have a friend who's a minority".

Secondly, even if Trump is not bigoted against jewish people, that doesn't mean he doesn't have other bigotries (like towards Muslims, hispanics, black people, etc.)
Applying your logic, Trump's positive policy on Israel means he still dislikes Jews? How does that work exactly? I mean I read things like "Trump is a bigot" but then his policies don't show this. In fact, Trump's policies on Israel have been MUCH friendlier than Obama's ever were.

I see where you are going. Trump may not hate Jews, but he still hates Blacks? But then I see his policies have benefited African Americans. Unemployment at record lows for Blacks and Hispanics. So what gives? If Trump is racist, what policies can you point to that would agree with this interpretation? What has Trump done while in office to prove he is racist?

Chris B.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:08 PM   #63
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No we should see how great Trump is, he brings Nazis and Israelis together in their support of him. Such fine people.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:11 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
So after slogging through both “MAGA” threads, and now this one, I have one question.
Is there a solution or do we just need to split the country to avoid a civil war?

The partisan call out community that exists on both sides are very irritating to me. One side calls the other racist misogynists with no compromise, the other side claims that their opponents are against free speech and seeks to silence any political dissidence.

Is there a way that the left and the right can dial down the rhetoric and start to treat each other like humans again without painting everyone who does not side with them as horrible racist, sexist, authoritarian anti-democratic monsters, or should we try to carve the country into a couple separate countries before the civil war starts?
The trouble with your post is that you are suggesting that there is some sort of false equivalence in the morality and tactics between the 'left' and the 'right'/Trump supporters.

At this point in history, the republicans are (in my opinion) clearly in the wrong. They support a leader who IS a racist (and should be considered racists themselves). Saying "neo-nazis are fine people" and pointing out that "neo-nazies are not fine and saying so is racist" should not be considered equivalent statements. The republicans have used every trick to marginalize and split the electorate, and they have been at it for a long, long time (remember the whole "our goal is to make Obama a one term president" rhetoric, and the voter supression.) And now that republicans have succeeded in dividing society, you can't really blame those on the political left for feeling that there is no point in finding common ground.

Lest you think I'm some lefty democrat, I'm not. I'm a Canadian, who often votes for the right-wing Conservative party in Canada. And I recognize when the republican party has gone off the rails.

This cartoon seems to have some relevance...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg compromise.jpg (10.2 KB, 109 views)
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:17 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
True, correctly identifying Trump supporters as 'bigots' won't make them go away. But, knowing more about "your opponents" should never be considered a bad thing (even if that knowledge is a little distasteful). Knowing what they're like helps you understand the best way to engage them (or, sadly, when trying to find common ground is a waste of time.)
It's not a war. Most people seem to think they're all in for whichever side they chose in 2016. The fact is no matter who became President there would be choices made that some don't agree with. But how can either side disagree when the right choices are made, the right policies enacted? Who can be against a stronger relationship with Israel? Why would they be?

Chris B.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:22 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
No we should see how great Trump is, he brings Nazis and Israelis together in their support of him. Such fine people.
What would you think of a leader that enacted hostile policies toward Israel?

Chris B.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:22 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Go... out.... side.
Lol, thanks for your concern Joe.

The annoying thing is I see this thing everywhere. It could just be I hang out in some places that are conservative in nature, and other places that tend to be liberal, and see it frequently from both sides. I am not really worried about myself, but I do hate this bitter partisan bickering that seems to be on the rise lately, with each side demonizing the other within their own circles, without any concern for how attacking and demonizing the other side will just lead to more polarization and stridency.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:28 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Quote:
First of all, political policy towards Israel is not exactly a perfect measure as to whether someone is an 'anti-semite'. The world is filled with racists who claim "I'm not racist... I have a friend who's a minority".

Secondly, even if Trump is not bigoted against jewish people, that doesn't mean he doesn't have other bigotries (like towards Muslims, hispanics, black people, etc.)
Applying your logic, Trump's positive policy on Israel means he still dislikes Jews?
Uhh... no, what I said was that you can't absolve Trump of being a racist simply because he's friendly with Israel.
Quote:
How does that work exactly? I mean I read things like "Trump is a bigot" but then his policies don't show this.
Actually his policies show exactly that.
Quote:
In fact, Trump's policies on Israel have been MUCH friendlier than Obama's ever were.
First of all, Israel is not the only place where Jews are located, nor is the country inhabited only by jews. Trump is friendly with the government of Israel, but that does not mean he is friendly with all jews everywhere.
Quote:
I see where you are going. Trump may not hate Jews, but he still hates Blacks? But then I see his policies have benefited African Americans. Unemployment at record lows for Blacks and Hispanics.
Unemployment is low for pretty much all demographics, in a trend that started almost a decade ago (so Trump isn't necessarily responsible). And Trump has done nothing specifically to improve the economic outlook for minorities (who still have a higher rate of unemployment than white Americans); they are merely benefiting from a general economic expansion.

Quote:
If Trump is racist, what policies can you point to that would agree with this interpretation? What has Trump done while in office to prove he is racist?
Muslim travel ban (despite the fact that the targeted countries were not a source of terrorism in the U.S.)

Switch of resources away from terrorism caused by white nationalist groups (despite the fact that activity by those groups has increased.)

Labeled neo-nazis "fine people".

Gave a pardon to Arpaio, a man who was well known for his racism.

Removal of affirmitave action programs for minorities at Universities (even though those minorities are often severely underrepresented)
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:29 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
The annoying thing is I see this thing everywhere. It could just be I hang out in some places that are conservative in nature, and other places that tend to be liberal, and see it frequently from both sides. I am not really worried about myself, but I do hate this bitter partisan bickering that seems to be on the rise lately, with each side demonizing the other within their own circles, without any concern for how attacking and demonizing the other side will just lead to more polarization and stridency.
You see it everywhere because you're told it's noble to go look for it.

Let me tell you a story. My house if a few blocks away from a huge outdoor flea market.

One of the stalls is run by.... a guy. He's morbidly obese, in a mobility scooter, chews tobacco, and I've never once seen him not wearing a Confederate Flag T-shirt. He used to always have a Confederate Flag hat but that got swapped out for a Trump (oddly not MAGA, just a generic Trump logo) hat few years back.

The stall next to him is run by an old black guy. I mean old. You ever seen black people? Well I think this guy might have been the prototype. Dude is old. He always wears a tweed suit and hat, even in the absolute swamp ass days of Florida summer.

I have never once, not once, been to the flea market where these two weren't sitting together between their two stalls, shooting the (crap) like old friends.

Real life is not the internet. 99% of people wearing MAGA hat aren't going to just speed up and turn their wipers on if they see a black person crossing the street and vice versa.

Things are not as bad as the people on the internet think it is and want it to be.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:31 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The trouble with your post is that you are suggesting that there is some sort of false equivalence in the morality and tactics between the 'left' and the 'right'/Trump supporters.

At this point in history, the republicans are (in my opinion) clearly in the wrong. They support a leader who IS a racist (and should be considered racists themselves). Saying "neo-nazis are fine people" and pointing out that "neo-nazies are not fine and saying so is racist" should not be considered equivalent statements. The republicans have used every trick to marginalize and split the electorate, and they have been at it for a long, long time (remember the whole "our goal is to make Obama a one term president" rhetoric, and the voter supression.) And now that republicans have succeeded in dividing society, you can't really blame those on the political left for feeling that there is no point in finding common ground.

Lest you think I'm some lefty democrat, I'm not. I'm a Canadian, who often votes for the right-wing Conservative party in Canada. And I recognize when the republican party has gone off the rails.

This cartoon seems to have some relevance...
Well Segnosaur, that is the problem.

Both sides think that they are in the right, and can point to specific ways that the other side is full on monsters. And neither side seems to be willing to concede that they have monsters on their side too. This just creates a feed-back loop of partisan stridency that I see slowly ramping up the hate.

The hate only spawns more hate from the other side, which leads to more hate.

Your statements that the right supports neo-nazis is a prime example of a what I am talking about. Statements like that that makes Republicans claim that the left can not be reasoned with because they think anyone to the right of Mao is a neo Nazi.

Would you agree that the Republican party does not literally support the National Socialist Party or new groups that wish to rebuild it?
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:46 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
Lol, thanks for your concern Joe.

The annoying thing is I see this thing everywhere. It could just be I hang out in some places that are conservative in nature, and other places that tend to be liberal, and see it frequently from both sides. I am not really worried about myself, but I do hate this bitter partisan bickering that seems to be on the rise lately, with each side demonizing the other within their own circles, without any concern for how attacking and demonizing the other side will just lead to more polarization and stridency.
Yea taking kids from their parents is not something worth keeping records over and getting upset about it is the kind of partisan bickering we need to get above.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:49 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
Well Segnosaur, that is the problem.

Both sides think that they are in the right, and can point to specific ways that the other side is full on monsters. And neither side seems to be willing to concede that they have monsters on their side too. This just creates a feed-back loop of partisan stridency that I see slowly ramping up the hate.

The hate only spawns more hate from the other side, which leads to more hate.

Your statements that the right supports neo-nazis is a prime example of a what I am talking about. Statements like that that makes Republicans claim that the left can not be reasoned with because they think anyone to the right of Mao is a neo Nazi.

Would you agree that the Republican party does not literally support the National Socialist Party or new groups that wish to rebuild it?
Yes calling them fine people isn't support, lots of white supremacists are fine people and you shouldn't call them racist just because they are white supremacists.

The problem is that the president litterally does support white supremacists, he likes a lot of what they have to say and that is why he retweets them.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:54 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
Well Segnosaur, that is the problem.

Both sides think that they are in the right, and can point to specific ways that the other side is full on monsters. And neither side seems to be willing to concede that they have monsters on their side too.
The difference is, when there are "monsters" on the political left, they tend to be shuned/marginalized.

The big "monster" on the right was made president.

So, false equivalence.

Quote:
Your statements that the right supports neo-nazis is a prime example of a what I am talking about. Statements like that that makes Republicans claim that the left can not be reasoned with because they think anyone to the right of Mao is a neo Nazi.
It was Trump himself (the current republican president, the one who currently enjoys ~90% support within the republican party, and the person that almost all congress critters have either explicitly supported, or have approved of various laws and appointments) who called Neo-Nazis "fine people". This is not some generic "you're conservative therefor you're a nazi".
Quote:
Would you agree that the Republican party does not literally support the National Socialist Party or new groups that wish to rebuild it?
After the Charlottesville rally, Trump claimed there were "fine people" on the side of the white supremecists. This is despite the fact that 1) There were all sorts of swastika flags around, 2) The group as a whole was chanting anti-jewish slogans such as "Blood and Soil". I think it can be safely assumed that everyone there who attended on the "right" side of the protest was a neo-nazi and/or white nationalist. (Given the circumstances, even if someone did show show up who wasn't a neo-nazi, they would have seen the situation and immediately left.)

Yet Trump had no problem suggesting that that group may have had some bad people, but also had some "fine people", even though those fine people would have been quite happy chanting anti-jewish slogans.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:56 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
After the Charlottesville rally, Trump claimed there were "fine people" on the side of the white supremecists. This is despite the fact that 1) There were all sorts of swastika flags around, 2) The group as a whole was chanting anti-jewish slogans such as "Blood and Soil". I think it can be safely assumed that everyone there who attended on the "right" side of the protest was a neo-nazi and/or white nationalist. (Given the circumstances, even if someone did show show up who wasn't a neo-nazi, they would have seen the situation and immediately left.)
Look put it in a totally non pejorative fashion.

When someone is wearing a MAGA hat they are racists, they are sexist, they are white supremacists.


Some, I assume, are good people.


That is a statement that they are sure to be able to get behind right?
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Old 4th April 2019, 01:09 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You see it everywhere because you're told it's noble to go look for it.

Let me tell you a story. My house if a few blocks away from a huge outdoor flea market.

One of the stalls is run by.... a guy. He's morbidly obese, in a mobility scooter, chews tobacco, and I've never once seen him not wearing a Confederate Flag T-shirt. He used to always have a Confederate Flag hat but that got swapped out for a Trump (oddly not MAGA, just a generic Trump logo) hat few years back.

The stall next to him is run by an old black guy. I mean old. You ever seen black people? Well I think this guy might have been the prototype. Dude is old. He always wears a tweed suit and hat, even in the absolute swamp ass days of Florida summer.

I have never once, not once, been to the flea market where these two weren't sitting together between their two stalls, shooting the (crap) like old friends.

Real life is not the internet. 99% of people wearing MAGA hat aren't going to just speed up and turn their wipers on if they see a black person crossing the street and vice versa.

Things are not as bad as the people on the internet think it is and want it to be.
And for every touching anecdote like that, we have a very real Charlottesville, or Berkely, or Philadelphia, and increasingly hostile demonstrations in our own towns.

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Old 4th April 2019, 01:26 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You see it everywhere because you're told it's noble to go look for it.

Let me tell you a story. My house if a few blocks away from a huge outdoor flea market.

One of the stalls is run by.... a guy. He's morbidly obese, in a mobility scooter, chews tobacco, and I've never once seen him not wearing a Confederate Flag T-shirt. He used to always have a Confederate Flag hat but that got swapped out for a Trump (oddly not MAGA, just a generic Trump logo) hat few years back.

The stall next to him is run by an old black guy. I mean old. You ever seen black people? Well I think this guy might have been the prototype. Dude is old. He always wears a tweed suit and hat, even in the absolute swamp ass days of Florida summer.

I have never once, not once, been to the flea market where these two weren't sitting together between their two stalls, shooting the (crap) like old friends.

Real life is not the internet. 99% of people wearing MAGA hat aren't going to just speed up and turn their wipers on if they see a black person crossing the street and vice versa.

Things are not as bad as the people on the internet think it is and want it to be.
Hi JoeMorgue,

I am not sure what you mean by “You are told it is noble to go look for it”.
I enjoy your story about the two people in the flea market, and I appreciate what you are trying to do. The thing is it is commonly not my reality.

What I see is a friend who really does think Trump is a Russian double agent, and wants me to watch this TV show or read that news article that proves that we are just 48 hours from the hammer finally falling and Trump being impeached.

At the same time I have another friend who is concerned by racism against the Chinese community and Chinese immigrants and resents immigration laws not being enforced. He deeply hates being called a fascist because he supported Trump while his father fought the Japanese in WW2, and he lived through autocratic rule in China, and sees it rising here in the States through what he calls the “baizuo” (which roughly translates into the progressive left in the USA).

They are both good hearted people, that come from totally different backgrounds and independently and unaware of each other they insult and demean the other.
I personally voted for Gary Johnson, and liked the choice between Trump and Hillary as a choice between being savaged by a bear or bit by a cobra. But as a libertarian I tend to take on characteristics of both the left and the right, and hang out in places that tend to be majority one or the other. I see increased stridency on both sides, and this stridency is wearing me out.

I am not seeking anything out, but it seeks me out, some many things have become politicized in our culture that it is becoming difficult to escape from it.
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Old 4th April 2019, 01:29 PM   #77
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Oof, gotta be said, that there thread title would loads better without the "So" at the beginning.
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Old 4th April 2019, 01:47 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The difference is, when there are "monsters" on the political left, they tend to be shuned/marginalized.

The big "monster" on the right was made president.

So, false equivalence. . .
Hi Segnosaur,

I am not going to play a game of counting coup with you about who is the worst. I am not a Trump supporter (I voted for Gary Johnson). In my option Trump is a jerk with the personality and tactics or a shady used car salesman. (But at the same time I understand why people voted for him over Hilary)

I am asking you what can be done to fix the problems that the attitude like yours spawns.

I know you feel you are absolutely right. Let me assure you however that the people in the "Red" counties in my area (I live in Ohio, which is largely seen as a swing state) feel just as strongly that they are right.

Do you think calling them neo-nazi's because they voted for Trump on 2nd amendment issues is going to make them see democratic candidates as reasonable alternatives?

How much crow do you think you need shove down the throats of people who disagree with you politically before they see that they are wrong to not trust you and they should have voted for your candidate? Do think you are going to persuade people to your side by calling them neo nazis?

Or do you think that you are going to make them more strident?
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Old 4th April 2019, 01:51 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yes calling them fine people isn't support, lots of white supremacists are fine people and you shouldn't call them racist just because they are white supremacists.

The problem is that the president litterally does support white supremacists, he likes a lot of what they have to say and that is why he retweets them.
Hi PonderingTurtle,

I get that you think Trump is a racist Jerk. I rather do to. The thing is you are totally missing the point of my posts in your eagerness to attack Trump at every turn. You sound rather unhinged and unreasonable in your rush to attack Trump.

If you want to respond to my post take a deep breath, read my post, and respond to what I am saying please.
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Old 4th April 2019, 01:57 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Uhh... no, what I said was that you can't absolve Trump of being a racist simply because he's friendly with Israel.

Actually his policies show exactly that.

First of all, Israel is not the only place where Jews are located, nor is the country inhabited only by jews. Trump is friendly with the government of Israel, but that does not mean he is friendly with all jews everywhere.

Unemployment is low for pretty much all demographics, in a trend that started almost a decade ago (so Trump isn't necessarily responsible). And Trump has done nothing specifically to improve the economic outlook for minorities (who still have a higher rate of unemployment than white Americans); they are merely benefiting from a general economic expansion.


Muslim travel ban (despite the fact that the targeted countries were not a source of terrorism in the U.S.)

Switch of resources away from terrorism caused by white nationalist groups (despite the fact that activity by those groups has increased.)

Labeled neo-nazis "fine people".

Gave a pardon to Arpaio, a man who was well known for his racism.

Removal of affirmitave action programs for minorities at Universities (even though those minorities are often severely underrepresented)
I absolve Trump of being an anti-Semite.

Which policies? Link?

I would classify Israel as the Jewish Homeland. You know, the reason it was created...... To say "Trump is friendly to Israel's Government but not to its Jewish citizens" is exactly the kind of thing I'm pointing out. It's a conflicting statement.

Since the economy is doing good, everyone benefits equally? I agree somewhat in that a record high economy does tend to set some record employment numbers. Of course you could say it's all credited to Obama, and likewise Obama's failures are all credited to Bush right? Meaning in the end, Obama did nothing much while an active President yet after the end of his 2 terms his economy finally came to fruition..... Right.

The travel ban upheld by the Supreme Court? Really, you still think it's about race?

Neo-Nazis fine people comment never happened. Now you're showing your stripes.:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...of_139815.html

He pardoned Joe Arpaio from a charge of criminal contempt. A little digging shows he should have been charged with civil contempt but the charge was elevated due to political motivations. A good call. Arpaio was known for enforcing immigration laws. Wow, a Sheriff that enforced the law, what a crime.

Do you really judge a person's worth by the color of their skin? Race-blind admission standards are a much better determining factor for school admissions. Let's try to stay away from reintroducing racial segregation like we defeated in the 60's. A person should be judged by their ability not the color of their skin.

Chris B.
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