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Old 4th April 2019, 01:59 PM   #81
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The difference is, when there are "monsters" on the political left, they tend to be shuned/marginalized.

The big "monster" on the right was made president.

So, false equivalence.


It was Trump himself (the current republican president, the one who currently enjoys ~90% support within the republican party, and the person that almost all congress critters have either explicitly supported, or have approved of various laws and appointments) who called Neo-Nazis "fine people". This is not some generic "you're conservative therefor you're a nazi".

After the Charlottesville rally, Trump claimed there were "fine people" on the side of the white supremecists. This is despite the fact that 1) There were all sorts of swastika flags around, 2) The group as a whole was chanting anti-jewish slogans such as "Blood and Soil". I think it can be safely assumed that everyone there who attended on the "right" side of the protest was a neo-nazi and/or white nationalist. (Given the circumstances, even if someone did show show up who wasn't a neo-nazi, they would have seen the situation and immediately left.)

Yet Trump had no problem suggesting that that group may have had some bad people, but also had some "fine people", even though those fine people would have been quite happy chanting anti-jewish slogans.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...of_139815.html
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Old 4th April 2019, 02:06 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yea taking kids from their parents is not something worth keeping records over and getting upset about it is the kind of partisan bickering we need to get above.
I want to single this post out as a prime example of what I am talking about.

<snip>



Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited for Rule 12. Address the topic, not other members.
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Old 4th April 2019, 02:13 PM   #83
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I don't know if it's willful ignorance or not but some folks who continue to spout off about what Trump said or didn't say may want to lay down their party handbook and put on their skeptic's hat just long enough to verify a few facts before placing foot in mouth. The facts are in and Trump NEVER said neo-nazis were fine people.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...of_139815.html

IT NEVER HAPPENED. REPEAT. IT NEVER HAPPENED.......

Yet another example of how supposedly educated minds tow their party line even when it's filled with fake news and lies and proven false as fact. I refuse to believe Liberals are this stupid. It must be intentional dishonesty.

Chris B.
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Old 4th April 2019, 07:54 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I don't know if it's willful ignorance or not but some folks who continue to spout off about what Trump said or didn't say may want to lay down their party handbook and put on their skeptic's hat just long enough to verify a few facts before placing foot in mouth. The facts are in and Trump NEVER said neo-nazis were fine people.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...of_139815.html

IT NEVER HAPPENED. REPEAT. IT NEVER HAPPENED.......

Yet another example of how supposedly educated minds tow their party line even when it's filled with fake news and lies and proven false as fact. I refuse to believe Liberals are this stupid. It must be intentional dishonesty.

Chris B.
I turn your attention to this guy:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY
He pardoned Joe Arpaio from a charge of criminal contempt. A little digging shows he should have been charged with civil contempt but the charge was elevated due to political motivations. A good call. Arpaio was known for enforcing immigration laws. Wow, a Sheriff that enforced the law, what a crime.
But hey, “stupid liberals,” right?
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Old 4th April 2019, 09:16 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
I turn your attention to this guy:

But hey, “stupid liberals,” right?
A Sheriff in AZ whose county is located within 50 miles of the Mexican border is charged with racial profiling for stopping Hispanics because for some reason he thought they may be here illegally, and wouldn't you know it, many were.

This was a political job and a pardon was warranted. He should have never been charged with criminal contempt, at most it was a clear case of civil.
Aug 25th 2017 Arpaio claimed he was the victim of a witch hunt by Obama holdovers at the Justice Department. Well let's see, looking back, can we think of anyone who is not there now doing anything a little wrong for political purposes? You remember, the Trump hater crowd? Seems like one could lean toward Arpaio's statement being fairly accurate knowing what we do now. What a disgrace.

Chris B.
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:34 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well, the question then is: is it possible for someone to realistically support an overt bigot without being considered a bigot themselves.

After all, (at the risk of godwinning the thread), if someone said "I really like that Hitler guy. But I'm not a bigot... I just like the fact that he contributed to the creation of the VW Beetle", you would assume that the person really is a bigot (since the racism espoused by Hitler should override anything else he did).
Being responsible for the deaths of 100 million people falls on one side of the equation. The VW Beetle on the other side. Yes, I think there's a problem with someone who considers the positives to outweigh the negatives.

If, on the other hand, someone were to think that Trump's economic policies were doing more good than his racism was doing bad, I wouldn't think that made him racist. I'd think he was wrong (because I don't think his economic policies are doing good), but as that issue isn't so clear cut, I would simply consider that person to be mistaken. It's also not clear to me how much harm his racism has actually done.

So I don't think the situation is at all clear cut in the way it is with Hitler. I know where I stand on Trump (I disagree with his politic and his policies), but politics is one of those areas that reasonable people can disagree because economics, foreign affairs, culture, etc. etc. are simply extremely complicated things.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:10 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
No, it makes them less concerned with it than the consequences of voting the other way.
No, it makes them cool with it, because they could have chosen someone else to vote for or abstained from voting.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:12 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
According to some of the left on here anyone who voted Trump is a racist or sexist, and MAGA hats should not be tolerated.
Actually, when I say "white supremacist", I mean racist *and* sexist - and anti-Semitic, anti-LGBT, and hostile to people with disabilities. Basically, a low-grade, non-genocidal (now that they nearly wiped out the Native Americans) version of the philosophy that the Nazis got from us. This describes Dolt 45 well enough, I think.

But that doesn't mean that everyone who voted for him is a white supremacist. Some were so anti-abortion that they decided that they don't care about any other human being. Of course, since this also will kill or poison pregnant women, they can't really claim to care about fetuses either, but we're all hypocrites at some level. Some were so greedy that they *really* wanted their old job, or a tax cut, and again, they simply don't care about their fellow human beings. Some are delusional, and some simply didn't pay attention.

Quote:
I view their complaints

Let us check things I like to call............FACTS

Let us look at race

Now apparently 8% of blacks are self racist and 29% of Asians and Hispanics
Again, I have no clue what's wrong with those black people who voted for him.

Many Hispanic people are white, so no issue there - and some Asians are hoping to slip in (White supremacists have a relatively nice view, so again, no problem.

Quote:
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cp...s_race_624.png

I have meet very few self racist people
I've met enough - including quite a few white people who seem to be ashamed of themselves for being white, but they likely ran from Cheeto Benito at top speed.

Quote:
Well look at that. 42% of women are misogynists.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cp...gender_624.png
Well, no...but large numbers of white women tend to vote for white supremacism, sine they live adjacent to white men. THere's a reason why Dolt 45 was absolutely destroyed among black women in particular - Clinton made sure to address the concerns of black people and women, Dolt 45 promised state violence, pollution, and poor education, finances, and health care. And as I said before, he has proceeded to implement those promises.

Quote:
But hey. Who cares about facts?
We both do - but you seem to not understand them.

Last edited by Mumbles; 4th April 2019 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:25 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You see it everywhere because you're told it's noble to go look for it.

Let me tell you a story. My house if a few blocks away from a huge outdoor flea market.

One of the stalls is run by.... a guy. He's morbidly obese, in a mobility scooter, chews tobacco, and I've never once seen him not wearing a Confederate Flag T-shirt. He used to always have a Confederate Flag hat but that got swapped out for a Trump (oddly not MAGA, just a generic Trump logo) hat few years back.

The stall next to him is run by an old black guy. I mean old. You ever seen black people? Well I think this guy might have been the prototype. Dude is old. He always wears a tweed suit and hat, even in the absolute swamp ass days of Florida summer.

I have never once, not once, been to the flea market where these two weren't sitting together between their two stalls, shooting the (crap) like old friends.

Real life is not the internet. 99% of people wearing MAGA hat aren't going to just speed up and turn their wipers on if they see a black person crossing the street and vice versa.

Things are not as bad as the people on the internet think it is and want it to be.

sorry, but this is a Red Herring, in my opinion.

It is a feature of Racism to give special dispensation to minority individuals that are familiar to you. It's right alongside Mormon families adopting children of color in the belief that bringing them up right will turn their skin white: minorities are bad in numbers, because they are a threat in numbers.
Your Confederacy Scooter Guy would most likely not associate his fellow saleman with BLM or Gang violence.

You can absolutely be a racist even when you have black friends.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:35 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Being responsible for the deaths of 100 million people falls on one side of the equation. The VW Beetle on the other side. Yes, I think there's a problem with someone who considers the positives to outweigh the negatives.

If, on the other hand, someone were to think that Trump's economic policies were doing more good than his racism was doing bad, I wouldn't think that made him racist. I'd think he was wrong (because I don't think his economic policies are doing good), but as that issue isn't so clear cut, I would simply consider that person to be mistaken. It's also not clear to me how much harm his racism has actually done.

So I don't think the situation is at all clear cut in the way it is with Hitler. I know where I stand on Trump (I disagree with his politic and his policies), but politics is one of those areas that reasonable people can disagree because economics, foreign affairs, culture, etc. etc. are simply extremely complicated things.
The situation isn't as clear cut because we have had 70 odd years to learn what Hitler did.

Anyone who thinks the economy doing well is more important than the President instituting racist policies is most likely someone who isn't affected by the racist policies and tend to dismiss them as unimportant. In other words, a racism apologist. Like was said.
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Old 5th April 2019, 12:29 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
No, it makes them cool with it, because they could have chosen someone else to vote for or abstained from voting.
If they were more concerned with what happens if Clinton won, then the right thing would be to vote for Trump. Those were the viable choices.

So again it doesn't make them cool with it. It really is being faced with two less than perfect choices and deciding between them, not choosing one in a vacuum.

(Choosing him in the primaries was a different choice, also made by many but not all of the same people)
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Old 5th April 2019, 12:53 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Anyone who thinks the economy doing well is more important than the President instituting racist policies is most likely someone who isn't affected by the racist policies and tend to dismiss them as unimportant. In other words, a racism apologist. Like was said.
That may be likely, but it's not the only logically consistent position. The position that I'm suggesting is still logically consistent and so it's possible that there are people who hold it.
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Old 5th April 2019, 01:27 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
sorry, but this is a Red Herring, in my opinion.

It is a feature of Racism to give special dispensation to minority individuals that are familiar to you. It's right alongside Mormon families adopting children of color in the belief that bringing them up right will turn their skin white: minorities are bad in numbers, because they are a threat in numbers.
Your Confederacy Scooter Guy would most likely not associate his fellow saleman with BLM or Gang violence.

You can absolutely be a racist even when you have black friends.
And not being outwardly racist to one group doesn't mean you can't be racist to any other group. I think that's one fatal flaw in the "black friends" argument made by some MAGA people.
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Old 5th April 2019, 02:16 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I absolve Trump of being an anti-Semite.

Which policies? Link?

I would classify Israel as the Jewish Homeland. You know, the reason it was created...... To say "Trump is friendly to Israel's Government but not to its Jewish citizens" is exactly the kind of thing I'm pointing out. It's a conflicting statement.
It is not. Many US white nationalists *love* Israel - because it's a great place for all of the jews to move to instead of living in the US. Many anti-semitic evangelicals love Israel as well - because once all the Jews move there, Jesus will return, send the Jews to burn in hell, and rapture the evangelicals.

Meanwhile, many Jewish people see the Netanyahu government as corrupt and oppressive towards Palestinians (and I agree with them).

Quote:
Since the economy is doing good, everyone benefits equally? I agree somewhat in that a record high economy does tend to set some record employment numbers. Of course you could say it's all credited to Obama, and likewise Obama's failures are all credited to Bush right? Meaning in the end, Obama did nothing much while an active President yet after the end of his 2 terms his economy finally came to fruition..... Right.
Sorry, there's no getting around this one. The low *unemployment* rate is due to Obama's policies, not Dolt 45s. Meanwhile, black *wealth* has yet to recover from the Great Recession, and while Obama did not do nearly enough to change this, Dolt 45 has thrown out any check on home and auto loan discrimination - both of which were rampant until Obama, along with the dems in congress, put legal checks in place. In other words, as I said, Cheeto Benito is actively trying to harm nonwhite people, as he promised to do.

Quote:
The travel ban upheld by the Supreme Court? Really, you still think it's about race?
It obviously was. The fact that the same guys that gutted the Voting Rights Act upheld it means only that several justices are intentionally blind to racism.

Quote:
He pardoned Joe Arpaio from a charge of criminal contempt. A little digging shows he should have been charged with civil contempt but the charge was elevated due to political motivations. A good call. Arpaio was known for enforcing immigration laws. Wow, a Sheriff that enforced the law, what a crime.
Actually, he did *not* enforce the law - in his zeal to harrass Hispanic people he ignored several child rape cases, among other criminals.

Quote:
Do you really judge a person's worth by the color of their skin? Race-blind admission standards are a much better determining factor for school admissions. Let's try to stay away from reintroducing racial segregation like we defeated in the 60's. A person should be judged by their ability not the color of their skin.
Yes, let's judge by family wealth or "legacy" instead - and just ignore the fact that the vast majority of black people have neither due to willful discrimination by both the universities themselves, and the US government.

(also, let's not mangle MLK Jr's views on the anniversary of his assassination, okay?)
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Old 5th April 2019, 02:35 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
If they were more concerned with what happens if Clinton won, then the right thing would be to vote for Trump. Those were the viable choices.

So again it doesn't make them cool with it. It really is being faced with two less than perfect choices and deciding between them, not choosing one in a vacuum.

(Choosing him in the primaries was a different choice, also made by many but not all of the same people)
There were other choices. Choosing Trump was done not only over Hillary, despite how often that narrative is being pushed by people who won't own up to the fact that they actively supported a racist and sexist candidate.
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Old 5th April 2019, 02:39 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
That may be likely, but it's not the only logically consistent position. The position that I'm suggesting is still logically consistent and so it's possible that there are people who hold it.
It's possible, but - I would assert - not very likely. Take a random sample of people who feel that having the economy run by Trump and not Hillary is worth the President instituting racist and sexist policies, and I'm willing to bet 99%+ of them will be straight and white, and probably 70%+ men.

Note, not actual statistics but my opinion.
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Old 5th April 2019, 04:00 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It's possible, but - I would assert - not very likely. Take a random sample of people who feel that having the economy run by Trump and not Hillary is worth the President instituting racist and sexist policies, and I'm willing to bet 99%+ of them will be straight and white, and probably 70%+ men.

Note, not actual statistics but my opinion.
That doesn't seem to line up with the statistics presented by the OP.
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Old 5th April 2019, 04:04 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
There were other choices. Choosing Trump was done not only over Hillary, despite how often that narrative is being pushed by people who won't own up to the fact that they actively supported a racist and sexist candidate.
There were other choices, but none were actually viable. We have to deal with the world as it is, not as we would like it to be.

At the time of the election most people were predicting that Hillary would win. If you wanted to avoid that, the only thing that would have any use at all would be voting for Trump, who actually had a chance of beating her.
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Old 5th April 2019, 04:14 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
That doesn't seem to line up with the statistics presented by the OP.
It doesn't have to. There were too much disinformation in 2016 for people to have a fully clear picture of what would happen. Personally, I blame people voting for Trump for being poor skeptics. It's the people who still support him that I have a problem with.
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Old 5th April 2019, 04:16 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
There were other choices, but none were actually viable. We have to deal with the world as it is, not as we would like it to be.
They were as viable as either Trump or Hillary. Sure, they wouldn't win, but that just takes us back to wanting Trump to win again. If you knowingly vote for a racist, you are cool with racism and you shouldn't expect anyone to think otherwise.

But, as I said in my previous post, I don't think it's entirely fair to accuse all Trump voters of racism. I do think it's fair to do so of current Trump supporters.
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Old 5th April 2019, 04:21 AM   #101
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I would like to make clear, I think that many Trump voters actually are racist. I only know three people who support Trump, two of whom are racist (one is Indian with a Hong Kong passport, so couldn't have voted, the others are Canadian, so ditto).
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Old 5th April 2019, 04:23 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
But, as I said in my previous post, I don't think it's entirely fair to accuse all Trump voters of racism. I do think it's fair to do so of current Trump supporters.
I think that's a much more reasonable position, though I'm still not sure I agree with it, I will have to think about it more before I have anything to say about it.
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Old 5th April 2019, 11:04 AM   #103
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According to some, all deniers of chemtrails are government shills.

According to some, vaccines cause autism.

According to some, the Earth is flat. (Yep, already pointed out upthread. )

Thankfully, these "some" are not (yet) large in number. The OP falls into the trap of the broad-brushing he would decry.
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Old 5th April 2019, 12:51 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
It is not. Many US white nationalists *love* Israel - because it's a great place for all of the jews to move to instead of living in the US. Many anti-semitic evangelicals love Israel as well - because once all the Jews move there, Jesus will return, send the Jews to burn in hell, and rapture the evangelicals.

Meanwhile, many Jewish people see the Netanyahu government as corrupt and oppressive towards Palestinians (and I agree with them).
Many White Nationalists (the White Supremacy kind) love Israel? This is news to me. Link?
Many Evangelicals love Israel because Jesus will return and burn Jews? Link?

Ah, now the backdoor that allows a Democrat to rationalize Obama's treatment of Netanyahu and Israel. You think this would also explain the Iran deal as well? Crafty twist as it allows a very powerful anti-Semite policy in play, yet you forget, US Jews vote in US elections and 2020 will come.

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Sorry, there's no getting around this one. The low *unemployment* rate is due to Obama's policies, not Dolt 45s. Meanwhile, black *wealth* has yet to recover from the Great Recession, and while Obama did not do nearly enough to change this, Dolt 45 has thrown out any check on home and auto loan discrimination - both of which were rampant until Obama, along with the dems in congress, put legal checks in place. In other words, as I said, Cheeto Benito is actively trying to harm nonwhite people, as he promised to do.
http://www.aei.org/spotlight/the-obama-economy-perry/

" During Obama’s time in office, America has slipped in several international rankings of competitiveness, innovation and economic freedom. For example, in its annual global competitiveness report, the World Economic Forum (WEF) ranks countries on a single global competitiveness index (GCI), consisting of 12 important macroeconomic and macroeconomic aspects (or “pillars”) of competitiveness. In the 2008-09 report, the last published during the Bush Administration, the WEF ranked the U.S. No. 1 in the world on both the GCI and on the critical pillar of “innovation capacity.” In the most recent 2015-16 annual report covering the Obama presidency, the U.S. declined to No. 3 globally on the GCI, while slipping to No. 4 on the “innovation capacity” pillar."

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
It obviously was. The fact that the same guys that gutted the Voting Rights Act upheld it means only that several justices are intentionally blind to racism.
The Supreme Court is racist? News to me. Link?

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Actually, he did *not* enforce the law - in his zeal to harrass Hispanic people he ignored several child rape cases, among other criminals.
Are these facts? Because they sound a lot like accusations from a political party opposing an incumbent. Link?

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Yes, let's judge by family wealth or "legacy" instead - and just ignore the fact that the vast majority of black people have neither due to willful discrimination by both the universities themselves, and the US government.

(also, let's not mangle MLK Jr's views on the anniversary of his assassination, okay?)
No, that's not even in the same Galaxy as what I said. Everyone should be allowed to apply to the school of their choice based on their actual abilities, things like entrance exam scores. Nobody should be judged on the color of their skin, but instead by the gray matter in their head. I think Dr. King would agree. To argue otherwise is to suggest that people of color are less intelligent than whites and should be given a hand up.

Chris B.
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Old 5th April 2019, 05:47 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I don't know if it's willful ignorance or not but some folks who continue to spout off about what Trump said or didn't say may want to lay down their party handbook and put on their skeptic's hat just long enough to verify a few facts before placing foot in mouth. The facts are in and Trump NEVER said neo-nazis were fine people.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...of_139815.html

IT NEVER HAPPENED. REPEAT. IT NEVER HAPPENED.......

Yet another example of how supposedly educated minds tow their party line even when it's filled with fake news and lies and proven false as fact. I refuse to believe Liberals are this stupid. It must be intentional dishonesty.

Chris B.
The best argument you can present in defense of Trump’s “very fine people” comment is a parsing of his word salad gibberish “proving” that he wasn’t talking about Nazis and white supremacists, but rather defenders of monuments to slavery-loving traitors who fought a losing war against the United States.

The only thing more absurd is that you somehow think this argument is a devastating takedown of liberals.
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Old 5th April 2019, 06:09 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I don't know if it's willful ignorance or not but some folks who continue to spout off about what Trump said or didn't say may want to lay down their party handbook and put on their skeptic's hat just long enough to verify a few facts before placing foot in mouth. The facts are in and Trump NEVER said neo-nazis were fine people.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...of_139815.html

IT NEVER HAPPENED. REPEAT. IT NEVER HAPPENED.......

Yet another example of how supposedly educated minds tow their party line even when it's filled with fake news and lies and proven false as fact. I refuse to believe Liberals are this stupid. It must be intentional dishonesty.

Chris B.
And get he did and said exactly what you say he didn't. "Very fine people". He said it and you're, for whatever reason okay with that.
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Old 5th April 2019, 06:50 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
And get he did and said exactly what you say he didn't. "Very fine people". He said it and you're, for whatever reason okay with that.
Your desperation is showing. Sure, he uttered the phrase "very fine people" but you're trying to shoehorn that into showing support for nazis and white supremacists. Feel free to lay out your case if you want, but you're going to run into problems unless you're just trying to preach to "the resistance".

The real racists are those who didn't vote for Trump. After all, if Hillary had won, we'd have a President that thought that black kids were superpredators!!1!
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Old 5th April 2019, 07:15 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Your desperation is showing. Sure, he uttered the phrase "very fine people" but you're trying to shoehorn that into showing support for nazis and white supremacists. Feel free to lay out your case if you want, but you're going to run into problems unless you're just trying to preach to "the resistance".
Gosh, what an epic shutdown.

All you’ve left him with is Trump’s support for fans of slavery and treason, and the numerous times Trump has retweeted white supremacists and their memes.

I doubt even the most skilled rhetorician could make a case out of those scraps.
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Old 5th April 2019, 09:52 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Your desperation is showing. Sure, he uttered the phrase "very fine people" but you're trying to shoehorn that into showing support for nazis and white supremacists. Feel free to lay out your case if you want, but you're going to run into problems unless you're just trying to preach to "the resistance".

The real racists are those who didn't vote for Trump. After all, if Hillary had won, we'd have a President that thought that black kids were superpredators!!1!
I'm sure Chris, in his quest for accuracy in attributed quotes would like to see the source of the LIE that Hillary called black kids superpredators. Just as she didn't call all Trump voters "deplorables", there was far more (and far less, too) to her statement.

I won't be holding my breath for you to verify that Priebus/Trump lie.
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Old 5th April 2019, 10:24 PM   #110
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Trump was under massive pressure to distance himself from racists, but he let his economic council dissolve rather than make a clear denunciation.


It is clear Trump cares more about catering to the white supremacists than about the economy.
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Old 5th April 2019, 10:39 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I'm sure Chris, in his quest for accuracy in attributed quotes would like to see the source of the LIE that Hillary called black kids superpredators. Just as she didn't call all Trump voters "deplorables", there was far more (and far less, too) to her statement.

I won't be holding my breath for you to verify that Priebus/Trump lie.
All it takes is a passing familiarity with the two campaigns to know that it was Cheeto Benito who was howling about how horrible Black Lives Matter was, and how the national guard needed to be used against black people, while Hillary was campaigning with the Motherts of the Movement, pushing for serious reforms to policing and criminal justice, and actually investing in black communities.
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Old 6th April 2019, 12:11 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
The best argument you can present in defense of Trump’s “very fine people” comment is a parsing of his word salad gibberish “proving” that he wasn’t talking about Nazis and white supremacists, but rather defenders of monuments to slavery-loving traitors who fought a losing war against the United States.

The only thing more absurd is that you somehow think this argument is a devastating takedown of liberals.
From the article:

Trump: “I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

I suppose someone with Dyslexia could view that as a word salad, but to everyone else it's crystal. There's really nothing else I can say. I can only present the facts to you, I can't comprehend them for you or anyone else that refuses to accept reality.

Chris B.
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Old 6th April 2019, 12:23 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
And get he did and said exactly what you say he didn't. "Very fine people". He said it and you're, for whatever reason okay with that.
Who do you think President Trump was referring to as "very fine people" ?

Chris B.
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Old 6th April 2019, 12:36 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Who do you think President Trump was referring to as "very fine people" ?

Chris B.
The Neo Nazis, skinheads, and white nationalists. That's exactly who he was referring to.
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Old 6th April 2019, 08:33 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The Neo Nazis, skinheads, and white nationalists. That's exactly who he was referring to.
The facts below reveal and prove your statement to be untruthful and dishonest.

Chris B.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
From the article:

Trump: “I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

I suppose someone with Dyslexia could view that as a word salad, but to everyone else it's crystal. There's really nothing else I can say. I can only present the facts to you, I can't comprehend them for you or anyone else that refuses to accept reality.

Chris B.
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Old 6th April 2019, 08:33 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
From the article:

Trump: “I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

I suppose someone with Dyslexia could view that as a word salad, but to everyone else it's crystal. There's really nothing else I can say. I can only present the facts to you, I can't comprehend them for you or anyone else that refuses to accept reality.
I’ll join you in this fantasy realm in which Trump speaks with eloquence and precision, never contradicts himself, and we all owe him the most charitable interpretation of his statements.

That still leaves you with a best case scenario in which Trump thinks fans of slavery-loving traitors are “very fine people”.
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Old 6th April 2019, 08:33 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
From the article:

Trump: “I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

I suppose someone with Dyslexia could view that as a word salad, but to everyone else it's crystal. There's really nothing else I can say. I can only present the facts to you, I can't comprehend them for you or anyone else that refuses to accept reality.

Chris B.
Hey Chris, I'm taking from your posts that you agree that white nationalism is an evil and that you would disapprove of an overtly racist politician, but you feel Trump is being unfairly labeled as such. Is that a fair representation of what you're saying?

If this is the case I can understand how you would feel under attack (and appreciate you speaking up in a hostile environment). Do you get that (in most cases) liberals are not just trying to demonize their political opposition to further some agenda, but are genuinely concerned about their country heading in a white nationalist direction?

Seeing the president passionately pursuing Muslim travel bans and seemingly fixated with people coming in at the southern border and using dehumanizing language about those people, looks to many of us as either an appeal to white nationalists or simply white nationalism in early stages of action. It doesn't comfort us that alt-right rhetoric has been creeping into more mainstream conservative speeches and conversation. When Trump condemns neo-nazis (I agree with your assertion that he has) he comes across as awkward and uncomfortable doing so and just paying it lip-service - like he knows he's walking a tight line with his supporters on the issue.

Do you think this is all an overreaction and a misconception? Just influence from a politically biased liberal media? Personally, I would be very happy if you were right and would be comforted if you were able to lay out convincing arguments why we shouldn't be concerned that 40% of Americans might be siding with a white nationalist agenda.
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Old 6th April 2019, 09:32 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Egg View Post
Hey Chris, I'm taking from your posts that you agree that white nationalism is an evil and that you would disapprove of an overtly racist politician, but you feel Trump is being unfairly labeled as such. Is that a fair representation of what you're saying?

If this is the case I can understand how you would feel under attack (and appreciate you speaking up in a hostile environment). Do you get that (in most cases) liberals are not just trying to demonize their political opposition to further some agenda, but are genuinely concerned about their country heading in a white nationalist direction?

Seeing the president passionately pursuing Muslim travel bans and seemingly fixated with people coming in at the southern border and using dehumanizing language about those people, looks to many of us as either an appeal to white nationalists or simply white nationalism in early stages of action. It doesn't comfort us that alt-right rhetoric has been creeping into more mainstream conservative speeches and conversation. When Trump condemns neo-nazis (I agree with your assertion that he has) he comes across as awkward and uncomfortable doing so and just paying it lip-service - like he knows he's walking a tight line with his supporters on the issue.

Do you think this is all an overreaction and a misconception? Just influence from a politically biased liberal media? Personally, I would be very happy if you were right and would be comforted if you were able to lay out convincing arguments why we shouldn't be concerned that 40% of Americans might be siding with a white nationalist agenda.
White supremacy is an evil scourge. Being white and loving your Country is not. If you love your Country, you are by definition are a nationalist. A white person can still love their Country without being a white supremacist or bigot. Skin color is not a qualifier for love of one's Country. It's amazing to go back and see the twists and turns of the Leftist press and Democrat party as they have worked to associate and turn "nationalism" into "racism" and white supremacy into nationalism . In our current reality of definition twisting and relabeling, add skin color to the mix combined with the act of loving one's Country, if white, you automatically become white supremacists by association. It's insanity to do so, yet there it is in plain site.

I don't hold someone's opinion against them unless it's a lie. I have demonstrated in past posts that Trump has been accused of making racist statements that he in fact never made. His actual words were taken out of context as to who he was addressing and weaponized against him to influence low information voters into a false narrative of racism. When the opposing side resorts to lying to try create/further a false narrative, it should give pause for thought no matter who one voted for in 2016.

Trump is a white man and no he is not racist. The issue that many are trying to turn into racism is the fact that President Trump is not apologetic for his skin color and holds America 1st. He doesn't hold his hat in hand simply because he is a White American.

Likewise, I am not ashamed that my skin color is white. I have the uncanny talent to look past someone's skin color when determining their character and worth, it's really not a factor. I believe President Trump to possess very like ideals.

The travel ban was targeted at a group that have done harm to the US in the past and seek to do harm against the US now. The color of their skin is not a factor, their intention is the factor. Likewise with the Mexican border, the costs of illegal immigration have been spiraling out of control for years. Who cares what skin color these folks are? They could be purple and yet we still have a problem that needs addressing at the Southern border. Feigned outrage is not a solution to either of these issues. Action is the answer and the current agenda of the present administration.

Chris B.
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Old 6th April 2019, 09:41 AM   #119
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Nationalism makes no sense in case of the US - there isn't enough homogeneity to create anything but an artificial sense of unity.
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Old 6th April 2019, 09:44 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Nationalism makes no sense in case of the US - there isn't enough homogeneity to create anything but an artificial sense of unity.
Nationalism relates to real estate not genetics.

Chris B.

Added info to clarify: If you are using "homogeneity" as a reference to statistics of opinions I can agree, if using it to refer to the US people as "all the same or all the same kind" I disagree. Can you clarify your position?
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Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 6th April 2019 at 09:56 AM. Reason: added to clarify
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