|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#41 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,816
|
Bringing this back to AIA, when is the convention again?
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#42 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 16,658
|
We'll, there's always the AIA website.
Conference on Architecture is April 27-29 https://www.aia.org/articles/25406-p...ule-around-a17 Leadership conference is March 8-10 https://www.aia.org/events/26611-grassroots-2017 |
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#43 |
No Ordinary Rabbit
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 6,703
|
Quote:
If Gage & friends want to really show some conviction in their opposition, why not use the gobs of dollars they've collected and build their own computer models instead of draining the coffers on crappy little pamphlets? |
__________________
-------------------------------------- Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#44 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,857
|
|
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#45 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,530
|
|
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#46 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,006
|
What still bugs me about WTC 7 is that it's a tiny footnote to the events of the day. Nobody died in WTC 7's collapse. The absurd focus on WTC-7 among the truthers is that it is really just a gateway to claiming that if WTC-7 was a CD, then WTC1 and WTC2's collapses were CD as well.
|
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#47 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,857
|
So what to do about this resolution proposal?
Do we have a way of influencing the vote that the AIA delegates will take? I wonder if pointing out Gage's flirt with holocaust deniers is a path to showing the AIA members what a crackpot he is - his recent visit to the Nation of Islam, where he spoke alongside the anti-semites Kevin Barrett and Christopher Bollyn - and was very coy about it (no news that I have seen). We might also point them to his 2015 buddy Rudy Dent, a lover of Adolf Hitler, who is the only FDNY veteran to ever side with those whackjobs. |
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#48 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,530
|
|
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#49 |
No Ordinary Rabbit
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 6,703
|
|
__________________
-------------------------------------- Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#50 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,393
|
|
__________________
So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#51 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 511
|
Worth noting that there isn't anything out there I have seen substantiating the claims re how much they are spending on this project. They have two grad students at a public university in one of the lowest cost areas of the country working on this part time. If they spent more than $50k on this project in total, then that would just show their fiscal acumen is on par with their logical abilities.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#52 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 511
|
According to the AIA 2017 convention rules, the AE911Truth 2017 WTC7 resolution (17-5) was voted on yesterday Wednesday, April 26, 2017, between 2:45 p.m. – 5:30 p.m. As of the time of this post, there is no update from AE911Truth to its followers re the status of resolution 17-5 and so I think it's fair to say that it failed and likely by an embarrassingly large margin that they cannot even pretend to claim represents progress in their efforts to persuade professionals.
+100 internet karma points to the individual who can find the exact vote tally! |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#53 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,857
|
Four hours later - it's lunchtime now in Orlando - still no hurray.
I emailed Pamela Day, the AIA Corporate Secretary and Managing Director in charge of organizing the Business Meeting, and asked her the voting result. Since she is at the Convention, I consider it likely that I will have to wait for a reply, if I get one at all. |
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#54 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,479
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#55 |
Muse
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Just Southeast of Hell
Posts: 642
|
Resolution 17-5: Investigation of the Total Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, sponsored by Daniel Barnum, FAIA, and 50 Members of the Institute, failed with 4113 votes against and 182 votes in favor (with 179 abstentions). The resolution’s sponsors questioned the conclusions offered by the National Institute of Standards and Technology in 2008 about the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7. They argued that the Institute should support “a new investigation into the total collapse of WTC7.”
|
__________________
“I don’t look forward to heaven, it sounds as boring as hell.” Lord Postsettle |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#56 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,916
|
2015 - AE911 Truth (the movement of idiotic lies) reported late this afternoon that the AIA convention in Atlanta voted 160 in favor, but 3892 opposed to its resolution, i.e., it was rejected by 96% of the votes!
2016 - Resolution 16-3, which was sponsored by 97 AIA members affiliated with AE911Truth(Liars and Fools), garnered 11% of the delegates’ votes, losing 529 to 4,176. The 11% tally represents nearly a threefold increase over the 4% won last year. 2017 - failed with 4113 votes against and 182 votes in favor (with 179 abstentions) If sane/rational people studied what the resolution uses as evidence, (path of most resistance, own footprint, symmetrical collapse, etc), the vote would be limited the fringe few insane cult members in AE911t. Are there 182 members who are paranoid, or did they fail to study |
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#57 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 511
|
Being generous an not counting abstentions as rejections of AE911Truth's resolution (and I think there is a good argument you should), this makes this year's result essentially a mirror image of 2015's and a substantial reduction in support from 2016's results (which were still pitiful for AE911Truth).
2015: 96.1% of delegates voted against the resolution 2016: 88.8% of delegates voted against the resolution 2017: 95.8% of delegates voted against the resolution And, remember, the resolution itself isn't nearly as whackadoodle as we know AE911Truth's theories to actually be; it is a watered-down, dressed-up version that does not ask delegates to reach any conclusion re AE911Truth's controlled demolition theories. Can you imagine how poorly an honest resolution that actually represented AE911Truth's claims would fare? Tony--why hasn't AE911Truth posted the results of this vote or the results of Iran's investigation into the Plasco collapse on its website? You all can raise funds off of these issues, but you don't feel you owe it to your followers to tell them the outcomes? Why does your organization so consistently withhold certain relevant but extremely inconvenient truths from its followers? Are you ever going to tell them about the availability of the Aegis expert or WAI studies of WTC7? Are any of the non-Tony truthers out there still willing to donate money to AE911Truth after these last two years of its deliberate suppression of relevant and pressing info? Why do you think they want their donors ignorant? |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#58 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 1,997
|
Here's an idea.
Perhaps the 182 who voted for this resolution can get together and write a paper in which they detail their evidence for CD, and which they can then submit for peer review? 100 words each wouldn't be too hard, and it would make a nice fat document to smack us "officlal believers" in the face with, as well as salvaging their reputations. Tony, fonebone et al, get on the phone, guys! Triumph and vindication await you! |
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#59 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,303
|
|
__________________
Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#60 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,857
|
Link: https://www.aia.org/articles/82671-n...ward-in-a-time
I can't fail to note that ALL other resolutions passed - all but one with large margins in favor:
Originally Posted by AIA
Seems like the vast majority of AIA members can tell whether a proposal is contentious, or nonsense, or simply right. The AE911Truth proposal evidently is not contentious in the minds of America's architects - it's obvious nonsense. |
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#62 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,857
|
The failure of the AIA leadership to inform their members and the public of this utter and unequivocal failure is quite enigmatic. They are not silent on their various social media outlets:
|
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#63 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 487
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#64 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncula
Posts: 13,192
|
That's it, then, right? Three strikes and all that?
|
__________________
I'll bet you didn't notice that I was a registered Emotional Support Animal when I wrote this. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#65 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,303
|
Quite possibly. Gage surely knows better than to invest money in a lost cause that doesn't produce dividends.
|
__________________
Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#66 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,033
|
|
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#67 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,530
|
I just noticed something. AE did not have a booth at this event.
http://fp.exhibitor.conferenceonarch...070.1493314865 Short on dollars? |
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#68 |
Muse
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Just Southeast of Hell
Posts: 642
|
Napoleon - Waterloo 1815
Gage - AIA 2017 |
__________________
“I don’t look forward to heaven, it sounds as boring as hell.” Lord Postsettle |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#69 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,857
|
In previous years, the Business Meeting (where the voting takes place) was on the last day of the Convention. This year, it was held before the Convention opened its exhibitions. I guess that the booth's purpose was to sway unprepared, ignorant delegates - with the voting already done, a booth makes little sense then.
|
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#70 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 398
|
You'd like to think so. I mean, the AE 911 dolts, in their own write up, state that "...the AIA is a respected voice on matters concerning the built environment and on larger issues such as social equity and human rights."
Now that this "respected voice" has unequivocally and without question rejected this tripe for a third year running, in numbers matching the first initial rejection (meaning AE 911 has gone *backwards* from last year), they should drop this. Fat chance, though. As long as there is a golden goose to pimp and the most gullible of this world's people to keep shoveling cash and coin to Gage, it'll continue. |
__________________
"There's this thing about being so "open minded" your brain falls out". --Unknown |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#71 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncula
Posts: 13,192
|
I know these were member-sponsored, but will the AIA continue to allow similar resolutions?
|
__________________
I'll bet you didn't notice that I was a registered Emotional Support Animal when I wrote this. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#72 |
Muse
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 875
|
It would be wrong to rub salt in an open wound...
but hey, I'm in a snarky mood today!
![]() |
__________________
Ergo beedunked here. #FalseFlagCluelessAtPhysics. Skeptical Inquirer July/August 2011 issue on 9/11 Truth |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#73 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,530
|
Still no official statement from AE...........
|
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#74 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,857
|
Incredible - 7 hours ago, there was a new post on AE911Truth's Facebook page - and STILL no hint of the devestating defeat they took at the AIA Convention! One lone commenter (out of 18) dared to ask for the result.
And what a long post it is. Lot's to parse and expose to deserved ridicule. Just two things that fit here:
Originally Posted by AE911Truth
Originally Posted by AE911Truth
Richard, Dan, Kelly, Tom, Ted, Roland, Andy: You are responsible for your current level of FAILURE! |
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#75 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 511
|
Tony spent part of his weekend trying to spin the news to the 10-15 people who still post on the 911Truth subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/911truth/co...on_voted_down/
AE911Truth's Message: Pay no attention to the 96% of AIA folks who won't even vote for a new technical study, folks; just trust us when we say that the AIA membership actually knows WTC7 was a controlled demolition! Keep giving us money so Richard Gage can keep making all this "progress" towards the "truth." And, speaking of the truth, don't ask us about the Plasco building investigation outcome, or for any information about the two fulsome investigation reports done by WAI or the Aegis experts. We're just as interested in providing you with that information as we are in letting you know about our failure at the AIA convention. Oh, and prepare yourself to forget everything we told you the Hulsey report was going to be (a fulsome examination to determine the cause of the WTC7 collapse). It's just going to be a technical critique of a few aspects of the NIST reports, which is exactly what we promised it wouldn't be. And it won't be peer reviewed (except by a "panel" we select so that we can fool people who don't understand what peer review is) and published; we're just going to use it to raise money--money that we will use so Richard Gage can keep making all this "progress" towards the "truth." |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#76 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 511
|
LOL, and the graphic they use for the post not only uses a fake Buddha quote, but also even managed to spell Buddha incorrectly. If these guys weren't in the business of fleecing ignorant people, I would actually feel bad for them seeing these levels of ineptitude. Can't even get the little things right.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#77 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,006
|
Yet another pie-in-the-face ending for the Troofers. My personal favorite was Truth Burn (a decade ago). An artist designed a big metal sign with the word "Truth" on it. He planned to use thermite to burn the two legs of the sign so it would collapse. Oh, and it was going to take place at Burning Man. Sounded great, so the Troofers threw thousands of dollars at him (the number I recall was $20,000, but I can't verify that right now).
What did they do? Well, it was windy that evening and so they burned about 80 lbs of thermite in a pot under the sign, and Richard Gage gave a little speech. As one of the Troofers said in a great comment on 9-11 Flogger:
Quote:
|
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#78 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 511
|
Oh man, I had never seen or even heard about that. Great public demonstration of (1) there was nothing that looked anything like gigantic thermite charges going off at ground zero, and (2) even allowing for a spectacular visual display the likes of which was completely absent on 9-11, they couldn't figure out how to make it actually cut slender steel columns in a predictable way. At least they are consistent in their inanity. Too bad they still manage to separate people from their money with this abject nonsense.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#79 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,605
|
They're saying they were denied booth space.
From facebook:
Originally Posted by AE911T
|
__________________
Can you people please stop not thinking? - Gorgonian The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. -Good luck America with President Trump |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#80 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,916
|
Fringe nuts come out and post on AE911t, exposing the type of paranoia and ignorance required to believe Richard Gage's failed claims.
Maybe Gage is a agent for the government who finds nuts... https://www.facebook.com/ae911truth/...type=3&theater From the comments section
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|