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Old 23rd August 2013, 05:57 PM   #161
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Thanks for all that, KDLarsen.

"How about putting a display of creationist fraud in one of Denmark's finest educational institutions? Why not just invite Niels Harrit and the other fools from the 9/11 sceptics' environment while we're at it? How about the Holocaust denial movement?"

It's a bit of a leap to say they're directly calling Harrit an idiot or a Holocaust denier, but I am not a lawyer, and who knows what the parties will argue.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 05:58 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Is he...is he comparing himself to Galileo?
If he's wanting to deny being crazy, I can think of better ways than that.
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Old 24th August 2013, 01:13 AM   #163
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It's so funny he thinks this is some kind of landmark case.
Anyone is entitled to call someones theory crazy or idiotic - it just signifies a personal opinion of something/someone. Harrit keeps claiming that "tosse" refers to being mentally ill, which may have been the case many years ago, but certainly isn't now.
He also keeps forgetting that his 9/11-work is not a part of his field or academic "legacy", so calling his truther-activities crazy is not putting down his academic career.
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Old 24th August 2013, 07:52 AM   #164
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I am a little confused, maybe I missed this. Has this information already been presented to the court, or did he release this early?
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Old 24th August 2013, 08:03 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I am a little confused, maybe I missed this. Has this information already been presented to the court, or did he release this early?
The hearing was last thursday (the 16th).
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Old 24th August 2013, 09:55 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Is he...is he comparing himself to Galileo?
I think the Galileo bit is his party piece. The following clip is from earlier this year when he was unable to present his evidence in court. Looks to me like the same crap different court room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ8Cr...eature=youtube
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Old 24th August 2013, 02:09 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
The hearing was last thursday (the 16th).
Oh, ok. My fault. I was thinking to myself how stupid it would be to release your final commentary before the actual court hearing. Like a poker player playing with his cards facing out.

Originally Posted by spanx View Post
I think the Galileo bit is his party piece. The following clip is from earlier this year when he was unable to present his evidence in court. Looks to me like the same crap different court room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ8Cr...eature=youtube
What a loon.
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Old 29th August 2013, 05:21 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Is he...is he comparing himself to Galileo?
Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
I think the Galileo bit is his party piece. The following clip is from earlier this year when he was unable to present his evidence in court. Looks to me like the same crap different court room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ8Cr...eature=youtube
It rather epitomises the standard of Truther "science" and "research" in general and Harrit's in specific:
  1. Galileo didn't drop anything from the tower in Pisa, it was a thought experiment
  2. The story about the tower was fabricated by his biographer/pupil Viviani
  3. It was supposed to have occurred in 1589 not 1593
  4. In 1593 Galileo wasn't in Pisa but Padua
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Old 13th September 2013, 05:23 AM   #169
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Quelle surprise, Harrit lost.
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Old 13th September 2013, 06:40 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Quelle surprise, Harrit lost.
Kool. Link?
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Old 13th September 2013, 09:18 AM   #171
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIl4h...eature=youtube

Found this ^. Old but good for a giggle.
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Old 13th September 2013, 10:48 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Kool. Link?
Only news blurbs so far, which mainly consists of explaining the case. The verdict will probably show on the court website in a couple of months, if they deem it newsworthy.
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Old 13th September 2013, 01:29 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Kool. Link?
http://www.journalisten.dk/comment/21220

Translated:

Soren Villemoes acquitted of calling Niels Harrit for 'idiot'

Soren Villemoes, in a comment in the Weekend newspaper has described the scientist Niels Harrit as a 'freak', has today been acquitted by the Copenhagen City Court in a libel case brought by the retired lecturer



The best part:

Quote:
Niels Harrit is a judgment was ordered to pay the costs of 15,000 kronor. ($2670.51 dollars)

Harrit had demanded an apology and compensation of 25,000 kroner.

Last edited by Mr.Herbert; 13th September 2013 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 13th September 2013, 01:37 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Mr.Herbert View Post
http://www.journalisten.dk/comment/21220

Translated:

Soren Villemoes acquitted of calling Niels Harrit for 'idiot'

Soren Villemoes, in a comment in the Weekend newspaper has described the scientist Niels Harrit as a 'freak', has today been acquitted by the Copenhagen City Court in a libel case brought by the retired lecturer



The best part:
So he should be awarded costs against Harrit just to rub it in
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Old 13th September 2013, 03:20 PM   #175
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Does this mean Harrit is now officially an idiot?
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Old 13th September 2013, 03:30 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Does this mean Harrit is now officially an idiot?
Nah. He's legally an idiot, but only in Denmark.

Elsewhere the jury is still out, but they wandered off for snacks, games of bridge, family birthday dinners and camping holdays in the mountains, and it's unlikely they'll be bothered to re-convene.
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Old 13th September 2013, 04:49 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Nah. He's legally an idiot, but only in Denmark.

Elsewhere the jury is still out, but they wandered off for snacks, games of bridge, family birthday dinners and camping holdays in the mountains, and it's unlikely they'll be bothered to re-convene.


Originally Posted by George152 View Post
So he should be awarded costs against Harrit just to rub it in
This article says that amount is for costs.

http://jyllands-posten.dk/kultur/ECE...iker-en-tosse/

"Det bliver dog i stedet Harrit selv, som skal betale 15.000 kr. for sagens omkostninger."

Which Google translates as:

"However, it is rather Harrit themselves who have to pay 15,000 for the costs."
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Old 14th September 2013, 12:01 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Does this mean Harrit is now officially an idiot?
The fun answer is "Yes - it certainly looks like it."

The strict legal position is not clear to me at this time.

We don't know if the issue of defining "idiocy" ("tosse" or similar IIRC.) was considered by the court.

The variations on the theme are too many to speculate - so one example will have to suffice until we see the transcript. (If ever. )

The argument could be that:

1) "idiots" was shown to be accepted by the relevant community as applying to 9/11 Conspiracy adherents; AND

2) that Harrit had by his own action aligned with those conspiracy adherents who are regarded as "idiots" by the relevant community; AND

3) that any damage to his reputation was caused by his own alignment with those who are known to be regarded as "idiots".

If those were the steps then the courts consideration of the facts would stop at that point. Harrit loses on basis of 1, 2 and 3. Particularly "3".

So the question of whether Harrit qualifies as an "idiot" would not even be looked at by the court. The issue remains moot.

In that event what could be said to be legally accepted was that he aligned with a class of persons who are commonly regarded as idiots. That does not make him an idiot nor does it imply that the court ruled that he was an idiot. (BTW nor does the court rule whether the conspiracy adherents are in fact idiots.)

There are multiple legal possibilities and speculation before we see the transcript could be way off the track.

(And every use of "idiot" or "idiocy" in this statement needs to be read as reference to the actual Danish word - "tosse" and derivatives as far as I amaware.)
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Old 14th September 2013, 12:19 AM   #179
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Yes, thanks, ozeco.

The court may have just decided that Harrit failed to prove any harm was done by being called an "idiot".
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Old 14th September 2013, 12:35 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Yes, thanks, ozeco.

The court may have just decided that Harrit failed to prove any harm was done by being called an "idiot".
Correct. (And more concisely stated than my version )

Courts do not consider issues of fact which are irrelevant.


(And everything that Harrit wanted to say was probably irrelevant. IMNSHO all the technical issues of fact about thermXte would be irrelevant.)
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Old 14th September 2013, 01:00 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post


(And everything that Harrit wanted to say was probably irrelevant. IMNSHO all the technical issues of fact about thermXte would be irrelevant.)
My guess would be, Harrits thermite BS would only be relevant in a court case against the US goverment for the destruction of wtc. Of course in the real world no such thing exists. This would confirm Harrit is a nut job.

Two court cases for Harrit this year TV licience evasion and Defamation = thermite = NUTTER

Last edited by Spanx; 14th September 2013 at 01:06 AM.
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Old 14th September 2013, 01:32 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
My guess would be, Harrits thermite BS would only be relevant in a court case against the US goverment for the destruction of wtc....
Could be. Two obvious problems from a legal perspective:
1) The threshold issues of how action is initiated against the US Government PLUS what standing would Harrit have in such a proceeding;

THEN (If somehow it does get to be heard)

2) The same procedural problem we saw in Orphia and my recent posts. The court may not reach the stage of considering "thermXte" let alone "thermXte in dust".

The reason it may not get that far is that the "arse about logic" we tolerate here from truthers would not be accepted in a court. So the first step would be to prove CD THEN possibly the part played by thermXte could come into consideration. The truthers standard debating ploy of false logic would not survive in court. ThermXte doesn't prove CD; free fall doesn't prove CD, loud banging noises don't prove CD etc down the list of truther single issues put as claims without context. Absolutely independent of whether or not those allegations are true. In a court the sequence would be (1) set context FIRST then (2) add in details. Without a legitimising context the details are irrelevant. And would be objected to as irrelevant by the opposing side.

We are so accustomed to letting truthers get away with procedural nonsense that we forget that "truther logic" is:
A) Backwards;
B) Bereft of any coherent hypothesis; AND
C) Relies on the triple failures of (i) reversed burden of proof to (ii) prove a negative which is (iii) a moving goalpost. All three not merely fatal in court - they would not be tolerated - esp the "reversed burden". Any lawyer trying that trick would get short shrift from the Bench.
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Old 14th September 2013, 02:27 AM   #183
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I am going to call him the idiot Harrit at SLC from now on!
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Old 14th September 2013, 12:32 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
The fun answer is "Yes - it certainly looks like it."

The strict legal position is not clear to me at this time.

We don't know if the issue of defining "idiocy" ("tosse" or similar IIRC.) was considered by the court.

The variations on the theme are too many to speculate - so one example will have to suffice until we see the transcript. (If ever. )

The argument could be that:

1) "idiots" was shown to be accepted by the relevant community as applying to 9/11 Conspiracy adherents; AND

2) that Harrit had by his own action aligned with those conspiracy adherents who are regarded as "idiots" by the relevant community; AND

3) that any damage to his reputation was caused by his own alignment with those who are known to be regarded as "idiots".

If those were the steps then the courts consideration of the facts would stop at that point. Harrit loses on basis of 1, 2 and 3. Particularly "3".

So the question of whether Harrit qualifies as an "idiot" would not even be looked at by the court. The issue remains moot.

In that event what could be said to be legally accepted was that he aligned with a class of persons who are commonly regarded as idiots. That does not make him an idiot nor does it imply that the court ruled that he was an idiot. (BTW nor does the court rule whether the conspiracy adherents are in fact idiots.)

There are multiple legal possibilities and speculation before we see the transcript could be way off the track.

(And every use of "idiot" or "idiocy" in this statement needs to be read as reference to the actual Danish word - "tosse" and derivatives as far as I amaware.)
My mother always warned me that I would be judged by the company I keep.
Maybe Mrs. Harrit did not mention that to her son, or he ignored the lesson.
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Old 14th September 2013, 12:52 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I am going to call him the idiot Harrit at SLC from now on!
Quite appropriate in that context.
Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
My mother always warned me that I would be judged by the company I keep.
Maybe Mrs. Harrit did not mention that to her son, or he ignored the lesson.
Does that mean you are taking risks talking to me?
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Old 14th September 2013, 01:20 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
Quite appropriate in that context.
Does that mean you are taking risks talking to me?
You are only one. I am after all, posting on the JREF conspiracy, and 911 conspiracy, forums. Good thing I don't intend to run for political office.
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Old 17th September 2013, 01:19 AM   #187
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According to one article, the judge reasoned that..
Quote:
"After an overall assessment, Søren K. Villemoes' use of the term 'Niels Harrit and the other idiots from 9/11 skeptic environment', neither linguistic nor in the context of 'creationist plattenslageri' and 'Holocaust denier environment' is assumed to exceed the limits of freedom of expression. The defendants should be dismissed. "
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Old 17th September 2013, 01:25 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
According to one article, the judge reasoned that..
Thanks KDLarsen.

Us lawyer types who trained in Common Law jurisdictions will continue to be interested in the nuances of Danish law as revealed by this example.

I would wager that the phrase "After an overall assessment" subsumes a number of factors in some form of metric. Time may tell.

Last edited by ozeco41; 17th September 2013 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 3rd October 2013, 07:55 AM   #189
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Go figure, Harrit has appealed the decision to the High court. Apparenly he desperately want to pay more than $3000 in court costs...
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Old 3rd October 2013, 08:30 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Go figure, Harrit has appealed the decision to the High court. Apparenly he desperately want to pay more than $3000 in court costs...
Maybe someone is paying his legal fees (if he goes pro se) and feels the publicity is good no matter what the decision is because:

It brings people to look at his belief about 9/11 (where presumably they could be swayed by truther PR)

That's a lot less than running adds and producing new DVDs...

All publicity is considered valuable when you are into "attention" and these guys are a bit of attention whores.
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Old 3rd October 2013, 11:02 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Go figure, Harrit has appealed the decision to the High court. Apparenly he desperately want to pay more than $3000 in court costs...
And he still won't get the chance to present his turd munching BS.

WFT has building 7 or 911 got to do with someone calling him a crank, apart from showing he is a crank.
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Old 3rd October 2013, 10:03 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
And he still won't get the chance to present his turd munching BS.

WFT has building 7 or 911 got to do with someone calling him a crank, apart from showing he is a crank.
Yeah, what Spanx said!
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Old 4th October 2013, 12:53 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Go figure, Harrit has appealed the decision to the High court. Apparenly he desperately want to pay more than $3000 in court costs...
He should videotape the trial. Would make a smashing DVD!
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Old 4th October 2013, 06:38 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by AsbjornAndersen View Post
He should videotape the trial. Would make a smashing DVD!
Why is Duck Dynasty suddenly popping into my head for comparison?
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Old 4th October 2013, 05:08 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Why is Duck Dynasty suddenly popping into my head for comparison?
How about Duck Soup?

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Old 4th October 2013, 06:06 PM   #196
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Ha!
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Old 4th October 2013, 06:08 PM   #197
Orphia Nay
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Has the written judgement from the case made it online yet?
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Old 4th October 2013, 06:33 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
How about Duck Soup?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Yeah, I was more thinking the whiney crazy old coot who spews nonsense.
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Old 5th October 2013, 12:02 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
How about Duck Soup?
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Old 5th October 2013, 02:12 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Has the written judgement from the case made it online yet?
Found it on a truther website and uploaded it to Scribd.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/173727075/...-Weekendavisen
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