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Old 29th January 2015, 07:49 AM   #321
pgimeno
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
It's not down to me to prove anything as I have made no claim about her. I'm not sure if you have made a claim about her either, but if not then it isn't your responsibility to prove anything either. It is the responsibility of those claiming she is anti-Semitic to provide a proper case that it is so. This would be equally true for someone claiming she is not anti-Semitic.
We're in a case similar to providing a citation from a book or article or paper. It's not the citer's responsibility to provide quotes; it's the sceptic person's responsibility to purchase the book/article/paper if interested in verifying it.

We had that for example with a citation of a paper on the conductivity paints in the Active Thermitic Material paper. No one cared enough to check, but no one did in principle reject the claims. My thoughts were that the burden of proof on the paper authors was met (the flaws were elsewhere, not in their method for providing the evidence). Then someone (Ivan?) came up with a table that we all could see, but the ATM authors were certainly not in an obligation to reproduce the table.
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Old 29th January 2015, 08:24 AM   #322
Georgio
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
What you are doing is transparent for all to see.
I see. And what is that, in your view?

Originally Posted by carlitos
Yeah, let's focus on whether you know what a word means, rather than a photoshop collage with a bunch of stars of David superimposed on Jews, who have been posed in ways to show their sinister laughter and big noses.
Big noses? I think I missed that.

I hadn't noticed the stars, sorry. I was wrong - that image is heavily anti-Semitic and it doesn't matter about English comprehension. Re-posting that image as anything other than a condemnation of its creator is anti-Semitic.

If that's what she did then in that context the other ones are very likely to be motivated by the same 'thinking' rather than any other interpretation.

I retract my statement that the case is not made out properly - I think Grumme is an anti-Semite based on this evidence.

Last edited by Georgio; 29th January 2015 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 29th January 2015, 10:19 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
other interpretation.

I retract my statement that the case is not made out properly - I think Grumme is an anti-Semite based on this evidence.
Thanks. Now, how does this knowledge change your worldview? How do truther arguments appeal or not appeal to you, given the context of truthers' paranoia and anti-Semitism?
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Old 29th January 2015, 10:46 AM   #324
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I'd like to interject here.

The thread topic is Harrit's defamation suit. I brought up Grumme because a) she is Harrit's wife and b) the suit involves a comparison of Harrit's 9/11 quest with holocaust denialism - a severe form of antisemitism.

Now a more generalized discussion of antisemitism and 9/11 CTs will probably be off-topic - and it will require great care not to lump together things that are separate, and distinguish causes, effects and correlations.

I don't think many arguments made by truthers can be sensibly discussed in the context of an antisemitic worldview: Firstly, because not all who propose such arguments are antisemites (perhaps not even a majority), and secondly because the truth value of a technical claim does not change if the proponent changes his stance on Jewry.
All quite obvious.
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Old 29th January 2015, 03:51 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
...
I retract my statement that the case is not made out properly - I think Grumme is an anti-Semite based on this evidence.
Have you figured out 911 truth is nonsense, fraud, and failed claims pushed by crackpots like Harrit.

All claims by 911 truth are nonsense. With Harrit's thermite fake conclusion paper as evidence, as is all of Gage's failed "experts" you transcribed exposing their ignorance and BS.

Harrit meets the definition of crackpot on 911 issues, as he spews unfounded BS.
Quote:
Niels Harrit: “We do not know if the thermite that we have found is the same thermite which has been used for melting the beams. It’s very, very possible that different varieties were used, and I personally am certain that conventional explosives were used too, in abundance.”

Russia Today: “When you say “in abundance,” how much do you mean?”

Niels Harrit: “Tons! Hundreds of tons! Many, many, many tons!”
Is Niels a crackpot, or a liar.

Now the math...
Has Harrit maxed out the Crackpot Index?
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html
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Old 29th January 2015, 04:30 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Thanks. Now, how does this knowledge change your worldview? How do truther arguments appeal or not appeal to you, given the context of truthers' paranoia and anti-Semitism?
It will make me question Niels Harrit's motivation a lot more than I did. It seems likely that he is influenced by Gromme. As far as the technical questions of the 911 controlled demolition claims go it does not affect my view of them at all. I'm still not sure about all the claims which is why I still read this forum every day.

I'm not sure where you got the idea I was a 911 Truth supporter, unless being on the fence about the controlled demolition claims (which I still am and which is all I'm really interested in) makes me a 911 Truth supporter.

In hindsight I shouldn't have replied to this thread as I am not informed enough about politics - I could only name 7 people out of the 13 in that picture.
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Old 29th January 2015, 04:49 PM   #327
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If being "on the fence" about an insane theory is the way you want to go through life, then good luck. Are you "on the fence" about a flat earth or faeries in your garden? Those theories are equally ridiculous as "controlled demolition claims" about 9/11.
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Old 29th January 2015, 05:15 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
It will make me question Niels Harrit's motivation a lot more than I did. It seems likely that he is influenced by Gromme. As far as the technical questions of the 911 controlled demolition claims go it does not affect my view of them at all. I'm still not sure about all the claims which is why I still read this forum every day.

I'm not sure where you got the idea I was a 911 Truth supporter, unless being on the fence about the controlled demolition claims (which I still am and which is all I'm really interested in) makes me a 911 Truth supporter.

In hindsight I shouldn't have replied to this thread as I am not informed enough about politics - I could only name 7 people out of the 13 in that picture.
Being unable to see Harrit made up the lies about controlled demotion, calling it being on the fence, means you are a 911 truth supporter. There is no fence when it comes to lies from 911 truth.

Thinking controlled demolition has some chance of being real, is not being on the fence, it is knee deep in the 911 truth BS camp of woo. It is failure to see 911 truth made it up based on nothing but opinions.

You transcribed BS from 911 truth, not realizing it requires no debunking. You can't pick out details you think have merit. You treat Gage and his band of failed "nuts" (aka Gage's experts) as if they had something of value - they don't.

911 truth has no evidence for controlled demolition, or explain how it fits with the 19 terrorists who did 911. There is no fence when it comes to events, there is what happened, we can't vote on it, we can't use opinions from Gage's old failed humans who mock those murdered on 911 with BS flowing freely.
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Old 30th January 2015, 12:21 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Harrit meets the definition of crackpot on 911 issues, as he spews unfounded BS.

Is Niels a crackpot, or a liar.

Now the math...
Has Harrit maxed out the Crackpot Index?
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html
Hahaha I love
'#8 5 points for each mention of "Einstien", "Hawkins" or "Feynmann".'
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Old 30th January 2015, 05:20 AM   #330
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15 minutes of infamy... how pathetic
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Old 30th January 2015, 06:12 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Are you "on the fence" about a flat earth or faeries in your garden? Those theories are equally ridiculous as "controlled demolition claims" about 9/11.
I very much hope you're right - the so-called 'official account' of 9/11 is more than horrible enough for me.
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Old 30th January 2015, 07:39 AM   #332
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Georgio,
Did I already invite you to invest 3+ hours of your time to watch all my YouTube videos? I still think it's a very good introduction for nontechnical types like me and you, respectfully and patiently presented (see small print below for links).
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WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com
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Old 30th January 2015, 07:47 AM   #333
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Perhaps someone could clarify this for me.

The way I see it, Harrit wants to go to court in order to present what he calls evidence which shows 911 was an inside job. Once the judge has been shown the evidence he/she is bound by the law to have knowledge of a crime which should be reported.

Is this his intention ?
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Old 30th January 2015, 08:12 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Georgio,
Did I already invite you to invest 3+ hours of your time to watch all my YouTube videos? I still think it's a very good introduction for nontechnical types like me and you, respectfully and patiently presented (see small print below for links).
Thanks, Chris. No, I don't think you did specifically invite me to watch the videos - I think maybe you are confusing me with 'Jango'.

I have watched your videos and have actually transcribed a fair few of them (the first 6 or 7 I think) but I got sidetracked and never went back to it.

I would love it if more people (on both sides) took your attitude that it is better to calmly and respectfully go through things point by point and to try not to get angry, although I'm aware that a great many people already do that.
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Old 30th January 2015, 09:40 AM   #335
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Sadly the tone of these discussions is not very dignified. That's unfortunate.
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Old 30th January 2015, 10:39 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
Sadly the tone of these discussions is not very dignified. That's unfortunate.
At this late date there is not much to say that has not been said, and said, and said. That breeds frustration which in turn results in people posting angry rather than in dignified reiteration of the same points again.

In what is it, another month or so, Harrit will get his day in court and then there may be something new(er) to discuss.

Perhaps in the next year AE911T will file suit, or produce an interim report on their progress towards a technical modeling. Most of us here will not risk holding our breath though for that to come about, though I daresay many wish to be proven wrong in their assessment that AE911T's promises are more for PR and money raising rather than serious endeavors.

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Old 30th January 2015, 12:03 PM   #337
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It is sad 911 truth fools people into doubt and joining up. Maybe those who fell for the BS could help the fence sitters figure out why they were fooled by the dignified lies of Gage and 911 truth. What is unfortunate, is people mistaking unsupported opinions for facts and evidence, and being on the fence due to belief in BS.

It is clear Gage and Harrit are frauds; sad to see people fooled by liars like Harrit. ... if they are not liars, they are delusional fools.
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Old 30th January 2015, 12:27 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
Sadly the tone of these discussions is not very dignified. That's unfortunate.
At least it's not youtube.
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Old 30th January 2015, 02:57 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
Thanks, Chris. No, I don't think you did specifically invite me to watch the videos - I think maybe you are confusing me with 'Jango'.

I have watched your videos and have actually transcribed a fair few of them (the first 6 or 7 I think) but I got sidetracked and never went back to it.

I would love it if more people (on both sides) took your attitude that it is better to calmly and respectfully go through things point by point and to try not to get angry, although I'm aware that a great many people already do that.
Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
It is sad 911 truth fools people into doubt and joining up. Maybe those who fell for the BS could help the fence sitters figure out why they were fooled by the dignified lies of Gage and 911 truth. What is unfortunate, is people mistaking unsupported opinions for facts and evidence, and being on the fence due to belief in BS.

It is clear Gage and Harrit are frauds; sad to see people fooled by liars like Harrit. ... if they are not liars, they are delusional fools.
I think people fall for this BS because they give the presumption to "professional" and academics that they are straight shooters and not selling snake oil. Their arguments may sound convincing to uninformed and so they buy the sell and really don't have the wherewithal to verify if what they bought is a crock of sh*t or not. I suspect there are very few technically adept people who fall for the pitch. But there are some and they are either willfully ignorant, not truly qualified or simply looking for attention... or in the case of Gage cash. People who are intellectually honest and examine the claims can see that the truth sell is not credible... and they move on. True believers just join the congregation and continue to tithe.
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Old 27th February 2015, 05:37 AM   #340
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Truth movement gearing up for Harrits appeal case in two weeks.

http://www.ae911truth.org/news/201-n...ibel-suit.html
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Old 27th February 2015, 06:43 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Josarhus View Post
Truth movement gearing up for Harrits appeal case in two weeks.

http://www.ae911truth.org/news/201-n...ibel-suit.html
Wonderfull, Neills will be appearing before three high court judges to prove he is not a crack pot, armed with a Video (YouTube ?) of the collapse of Wtc 7 and a bag of dust.

I'm looking forward to this.
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Old 27th February 2015, 06:49 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
It is sad 911 truth fools people into doubt and joining up. Maybe those who fell for the BS could help the fence sitters figure out why they were fooled by the dignified lies of Gage and 911 truth. What is unfortunate, is people mistaking unsupported opinions for facts and evidence, and being on the fence due to belief in BS.

It is clear Gage and Harrit are frauds; sad to see people fooled by liars like Harrit. ... if they are not liars, they are delusional fools.
Foolish frauds is more Likely, they have convinced themselves that they are right and their egos will not allow them to admit they are wrong.

They may have found by chance one energetic aluminum fueled chip I doubt it but it is possible just like the microspheres were friction wear particles, an energetic chip could have been created similarly, if Jones an Harriet actually tested and found an energetic chip, that was thermitic and ignited it prior to the paper then they could have been fooled into believing more chips were thermitic.
Leading to an embarrassing paper of foolishness.
If he presents evidence in court on structure of the ,Chips bet you it will be cutting dust residue
And that is why he wants to present his case he doesn't understand what he found.
A truther called you friendly when he found out I had participated in the mico spheres
Debate gave me a copy of what he claims was a personal email exchange between himself and Harrit, it was a description of cutting disk residue from Silicon Carbide aluminum oxide cutting disks with expoxy binder with paint.
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Old 27th February 2015, 07:03 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Foolish frauds is more Likely, they have convinced themselves that they are right and their egos will not allow them to admit they are wrong.

They may have found by chance one energetic aluminum fueled chip I doubt it but it is possible just like the microspheres were friction wear particles, an energetic chip could have been created similarly, if Jones an Harriet actually tested and found an energetic chip, that was thermitic and ignited it prior to the paper then they could have been fooled into believing more chips were thermitic.
Leading to an embarrassing paper of foolishness.
If he presents evidence in court on structure of the ,Chips bet you it will be cutting dust residue
And that is why he wants to present his case he doesn't understand what he found.
A truther called you friendly when he found out I had participated in the mico spheres
Debate gave me a copy of what he claims was a personal email exchange between himself and Harrit, it was a description of cutting disk residue from Silicon Carbide aluminum oxide cutting disks with expoxy binder with paint.
He must have the "high-tech nano-thermitic material" to compare against his red grey chips. Let's hope he hasn't failed to disclose this information to the court.
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Old 27th February 2015, 10:14 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
Wonderfull, Neills will be appearing before three high court judges to prove he is not a crack pot, armed with a Video (YouTube ?) of the collapse of Wtc 7 and a bag of dust.

I'm looking forward to this.
Oh no, he is going all in and doing a complete "Scientific" presentation, that is going to prove with out a doubt that 9/11 was an inside job.

The problem is that Harrit do not understand that it is him being called a crackpot thats on trail, not evidens for or against 9/11 being an inside job, so by starting a "Scientific" presentation of any sort would probably label him as a crackpot by most judges.

Harrit is using the Court room as a stage.
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Old 27th February 2015, 10:19 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Josarhus View Post
Oh no, he is going all in and doing a complete "Scientific" presentation, that is going to prove with out a doubt that 9/11 was an inside job.

The problem is that Harrit do not understand that it is him being called a crackpot thats on trail, not evidens for or against 9/11 being an inside job, so by starting a "Scientific" presentation of any sort would probably label him as a crackpot by most judges.

Harrit is using the Court room as a stage.
He must have already presented this evidence to the judges in the exchange of statements ? If he hasn't it should not be used.
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Old 27th February 2015, 01:37 PM   #346
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The judges are not going to even listen to any of this. The only thing they will hear is evidence being called a "crackpot" hurt his reputation. To win this, he has to show his reputation was hurt by this comment and this comment alone.
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Old 27th February 2015, 01:53 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
The judges are not going to even listen to any of this. The only thing they will hear is evidence being called a "crackpot" hurt his reputation. To win this, he has to show his reputation was hurt by this comment and this comment alone.
We had something very similar here, with a trial about the harm to the reputation of a guy called Pedro Amorós caused by an article written by a reporter, related to the "faces of Bélmez". The trial focused on the authenticity of the faces, rather than on the harm to Amorós' reputation.

He lost, of course. The trial was a joke.
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Old 2nd March 2015, 12:42 AM   #348
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AE911T are fundraising to "pay Harrit's legal fees" / "show WTC7 video in court" depending on which spin they put on it.

From the first link:

"Dr. Harrit will also call two witnesses. One, Jan Utzon, is a world-renowned architect and AE911Truth petition signer who testified previously. The other, Dr. Per Hedegård, is a physics professor from the University of Copenhagan’s Niels Bohr Institute. His statement to a newspaper in 2010 dismissing Dr. Harrit was the only evidence used by Villemoes at trial. Today, Dr. Hedegård has completely reversed his position and insists on testifying in support of Dr. Harrit!"

Anyone know anything about this Dr Hedegård?
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Old 2nd March 2015, 01:06 AM   #349
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His listing at the Niels Bohr Institute of Copenhagen University:
http://www.nbi.ku.dk/ansatte/?pure=da/persons/135905

I had contacted Danish debunker Claus Larsen late in december and asked if he and his partner would work Hedegård, but it seems they didn't.

Perhaps I'll take it upon myself to contact him...
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Old 2nd March 2015, 01:15 AM   #350
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Chatting with Claus now.
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Old 2nd March 2015, 12:44 PM   #351
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What relevance does Jan Utzon's testimony have in this trial? He's not an expert in chemistry and probably not in structural engineering which has nothing to do with Harrit's work.
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Old 2nd March 2015, 01:34 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
What relevance does Jan Utzon's testimony have in this trial? He's not an expert in chemistry and probably not in structural engineering which has nothing to do with Harrit's work.
To allow Harrit to namecheck him when cashing in donations. I doubt Utzon has anything intelligent to add to the court records, given that his public statements so far consisted entirely of JAQ'ing off.
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Old 2nd March 2015, 05:04 PM   #353
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Maybe the Onion should get sued too, with their disrespectful "One Tower" Theory:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/gov...ction-o,37699/
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WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com
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Old 3rd March 2015, 11:37 AM   #354
Dave Rogers
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Maybe the Onion should get sued too, with their disrespectful "One Tower" Theory:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/gov...ction-o,37699/
They totally ripped that off from REO Speedwagon XKCD.

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Old 6th March 2015, 12:31 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
AE911T are fundraising to "pay Harrit's legal fees" / "show WTC7 video in court" depending on which spin they put on it.
...
From the first link, a newsletter dated February 26, 2015:
Quote:
And so we are asking you to make a modest donation to Niels Harrit’s legal fund, and help raise us $15,000 by next week!
Two days later, another newsletter: http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=...&id=604273b8d0
Quote:
Already, we’ve raised $12,000 of the $15,000 needed to cover his legal fees.
And then yesterday, March 05: http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=...&id=419e604a6d
Quote:
Fundraising Goal Reached!

A Thank You Message from Dr. Niels Harrit
[...snipped bla bla bla...]
Onward to the Danish High Court!

Niels Harrit
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Old 6th March 2015, 04:41 AM   #356
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Half a league half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode Neils Harrit:
'Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode Neils Harrit.
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Old 6th March 2015, 05:31 AM   #357
KDLarsen
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It's no surprise that Harrit will be touting out all these irrelevant circus acts (the 7WTC video, Jan Utzon, Dr. Hedegård), given that he still haven't obtained legal representation.

The court list shows a 9.30 am start and it appears it's the only case heard on the day in the 6th chamber.
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Old 6th March 2015, 12:06 PM   #358
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
It's no surprise that Harrit will be touting out all these irrelevant circus acts (the 7WTC video, Jan Utzon, Dr. Hedegård), given that he still haven't obtained legal representation.

The court list shows a 9.30 am start and it appears it's the only case heard on the day in the 6th chamber.
Can not wait to see him laughed out of court, insane theories only come from insane or insanely incompetent people.
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Old 6th March 2015, 12:08 PM   #359
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It will be interesting to see whether Danish courts have the same notions of relevancy as American courts.
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Old 6th March 2015, 12:49 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
It will be interesting to see whether Danish courts have the same notions of relevancy as American courts.
Given that Utzon was called as witness in the first case, I guess they'll allow the witnesses to utter their incredulity.
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