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Old 4th November 2015, 08:15 AM   #281
chrismohr
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Glad to hear that Mark replied to you. I for one accept his answer that "I am working on this project still. Results will be made public when ready and not sooner." My limited contact with him (direct and indirect) does not give me reason to mistrust him. I guessed that his silence was motivated by not wanting to get a lot of noise from Debunker World, and not out of any intention to take the $5000 for himself. I say we wait for the results of this and any other study that may be in the pipeline, whenever they may arrive.
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Old 5th November 2015, 04:05 AM   #282
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I could be wrong but it sounds like Mark is working on his own "independent lab study"

If he is ? Surely he would know that the dust came from The WTC which rather defeats the object of the study.
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Old 5th November 2015, 04:20 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
I could be wrong but it sounds like Mark is working on his own "independent lab study"

If he is ? Surely he would know that the dust came from The WTC which rather defeats the object of the study.
Absolutely at this point he can't win a finding of no thermite and he is just another shill,
A finding of thermite, he has to show it could have done damage, or was intentionally
Created, neither of which is logical or indicated in the data.
Best he can hope for is an unresolvable out come.
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Old 5th November 2015, 08:04 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Glad to hear that Mark replied to you. I for one accept his answer that "I am working on this project still. Results will be made public when ready and not sooner." My limited contact with him (direct and indirect) does not give me reason to mistrust him. I guessed that his silence was motivated by not wanting to get a lot of noise from Debunker World, and not out of any intention to take the $5000 for himself. I say we wait for the results of this and any other study that may be in the pipeline, whenever they may arrive.
Sorry but this is ridiculous, it doesn't take that long to commission a study, you more than anyone should know this.
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Old 5th November 2015, 08:42 PM   #285
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Given that the chip selection process seems to be a black art, maybe Mark is having trouble finding the "right" chips. No point in commissioning a study of the "wrong" chips; Millette already did that.
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Old 9th November 2015, 05:16 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Given that the chip selection process seems to be a black art, maybe Mark is having trouble finding the "right" chips. No point in commissioning a study of the "wrong" chips; Millette already did that.
Maybe he should employ a water witch, hear they can find anything with a forked willow
Branch, maybe that's what Harrit does.
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Old 20th November 2015, 07:59 PM   #287
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Bump while Ziggi's around.

As he is the only one allowed to complicate with Mark, What's up? Maybe next year sometime?
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Old 21st November 2015, 06:58 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Bump while Ziggi's around.

As he is the only one allowed to complicate with Mark, What's up? Maybe next year sometime?
Maybe after the sun expands into a red giant, then collapses to a white dwarf, then
Cools to a brown dwarf, and finally is swallowed by Sygnus 1, the black hole at the center of
the Milky Way Galaxy.
Maybe then Mark will attempt a simple inert gas test under N2 or Argon and put
the Harrit and Jones BS. Out of our misery.
Given the current attacks we have seen from truthers I only expect more
Of the same unreasonable circular arguments designed solely to confuse the gullible uninformed.
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Old 21st November 2015, 03:35 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Bump while Ziggi's around.

As he is the only one allowed to complicate with Mark, What's up? Maybe next year sometime?
Good luck with that, Ziggi doesn't seem capable of answering even the most simple questions.
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Old 21st November 2015, 07:05 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
Good luck with that, Ziggi doesn't seem capable of answering even the most simple questions.
I'm pretty sure he is capable of answering more than he has, and it's revealing that he chooses not to. It's pretty much a joke at this point, I'd say. Basile is well into his second year of unexplained delay; the real issues are dirt simple and easily investigated, but Basile has left poor Ziggi dangling in the wind with nothing better than to pretend to have a debating point about what Mohr said about what Farrer said about what Harrit said.
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Old 21st November 2015, 11:25 PM   #291
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Why do we need answers?

"They" are the ones making claims - about thermXte.

Their claim - their burden of proof.

And it is only relevant to WTC 9/11 in the context of CD - let them prove CD THEN - if they need thermXte in the hypothesis - we may need to discuss thermXte.

Until then it is moot.
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Old 24th November 2015, 08:12 AM   #292
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I received an email from Rick Shaddock today. Rick is banned here, so I will not post on his behalf, but some key points in his mail merit paraphrasing:
  • The main page documenting the project progress no longer is markbasile.org but http://www.911experiments.org/WTCdust
  • Quote: "The $5000 in funds have been raised. We are waiting for the transfer from the first project manager"
  • The fundraiser was started by ANETA (that is: Rick) on November 1, 2012
  • Ziggi is only self-proclaiming that he is "the only one authorized" to communicate for Basile.
  • Ziggi did not donate to the project.
  • Ziggi is an obstacle to the acceptance of a resulting study by the scientific community.
  • Rick has left written and spoken messages to Mark Basile many times
  • Basile must hire independent labs and present results, or return the $5000 funds.
  • Basile has broken many promises.

Perhaps Ziggi can comment on these allegations.
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Last edited by Oystein; 24th November 2015 at 08:26 AM. Reason: corrected fundraiser start date
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Old 24th November 2015, 04:35 PM   #293
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Awww check out http://markbasile.org/
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Old 24th November 2015, 04:42 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I received an email from Rick Shaddock today. Rick is banned here, so I will not post on his behalf, but some key points in his mail merit paraphrasing:
  • The main page documenting the project progress no longer is markbasile.org but http://www.911experiments.org/WTCdust
  • Quote: "The $5000 in funds have been raised. We are waiting for the transfer from the first project manager"
  • The fundraiser was started by ANETA (that is: Rick) on November 1, 2012
  • Ziggi is only self-proclaiming that he is "the only one authorized" to communicate for Basile.
  • Ziggi did not donate to the project.
  • Ziggi is an obstacle to the acceptance of a resulting study by the scientific community.
  • Rick has left written and spoken messages to Mark Basile many times
  • Basile must hire independent labs and present results, or return the $5000 funds.
  • Basile has broken many promises.

Perhaps Ziggi can comment on these allegations.
This is mostly BS. Rick was fired from AE911 a couple of years ago and now he has been asked to remove himself from this project, but he is not taking it well. I asked him to not contact me again and I don“t care what kind of rumors he spreads in a misguided effort to get some "revenge." I wish him well and encourage people to let him be.

As far as the study goes, nothing much has changed. Mr. Basile is still working on the study and he will give us an update when he is ready. The only possible change is that he will most likely give the next update when he is done with this round of testing and has some concrete results, instead of providing miniature updates at some specified intervals as had originally been planned.

Watch for news at 911debunkers.blogspot.com/
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Old 24th November 2015, 05:03 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
As far as the study goes, nothing much has changed.
Who appointed you spokesperson and are you in control of the money? If so are you going to return the money to Rick as it was his organisation that raised it and his wishes now are to do the study (now) or return it to the people that donated it.
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Last edited by DGM; 24th November 2015 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 24th November 2015, 08:37 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
  • Rick has left written and spoken messages to Mark Basile many times
Well, you did, too, and you didn't get a reply.
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Old 24th November 2015, 11:27 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
This is mostly BS. Rick was fired from AE911 a couple of years ago and now he has been asked to remove himself from this project, but he is not taking it well.
What has AE911 got to do with this? Nothing in the proposal, nothing in the fundraising announcements, nothing in Mark's status, nothing even in your and JM's communications over the last 3+ years ever hinted that AE911 has anything at all to do with this!?

Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
I asked him to not contact me again and I don“t care what kind of rumors he spreads in a misguided effort to get some "revenge." I wish him well and encourage people to let him be.
Who appointed you, Ziggi, as gatekeeper, and when?

Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
As far as the study goes, nothing much has changed. Mr. Basile is still working on the study and he will give us an update when he is ready. The only possible change is that he will most likely give the next update when he is done with this round of testing and has some concrete results, instead of providing miniature updates at some specified intervals as had originally been planned.
This is contrary to what most people undertstood to be a promise in August 2014, and also contrary to all of his study proposals, where the most Basile would do is to select specimens.

The entire heart and purpose of the proposal upon which donations were solicited and received is the promise that testing and and concrete results would be in the hands of independent laboratories! Basile most definitely is NOT independent!

Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Watch for news at 911debunkers.blogspot.com/
You have defrauded people, and have a lot to explain there!

Also, you are now implicating AE911 in this scientific and monetary fraud.
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Old 24th November 2015, 11:29 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Well, you did, too, and you didn't get a reply.
I got one reply eventually, saying, in essence: I haven't done a thing and will not tell you if, what and when I will do anything. I still have the money and plan to keep it despite my lack of effort.

Basile is now revealed to be part of a fraud. For 4+ years I have defended him. I am most deeply disappointed by this revelation of dishonesty.
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Old 24th November 2015, 11:45 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I got one reply eventually, saying, in essence: I haven't done a thing and will not tell you if, what and when I will do anything. I still have the money and plan to keep it despite my lack of effort.

Basile is now revealed to be part of a fraud. For 4+ years I have defended him. I am most deeply disappointed by this revelation of dishonesty.
Since we're left with speculating, I'd bet even money that Basile realized that sending the "wrong" chips to a lab would be a disaster, so he decided he'd better do some probative testing first, and now he can't find any thermite.
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Old 25th November 2015, 12:42 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Since we're left with speculating, I'd bet even money that Basile realized that sending the "wrong" chips to a lab would be a disaster, so he decided he'd better do some probative testing first, and now he can't find any thermite.
That's my hunch, too.
And similarly, that's where Jeff Farrer entirely left da Twoof - when he couldn't find any elemental Al, only kaolin and perhaps calcium aluminates, in the very chips he presented in Harrit et al (2009).

If there is anything that scares Truthers, it's the actual truth.
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Old 25th November 2015, 04:52 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
That's my hunch, too.
And similarly, that's where Jeff Farrer entirely left da Twoof - when he couldn't find any elemental Al, only kaolin and perhaps calcium aluminates, in the very chips he presented in Harrit et al (2009).

If there is anything that scares Truthers, it's the actual truth.
Steven E Jones, Fraud, Niels Harrit Fraud, Richard Gage Fraud, Mark Basile Fraud.

Does anyone see a pattern in Twoofers?

It was always to easy to do a DSC under inert gas and falsify Harrit 2009!
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Old 25th November 2015, 05:30 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
It was always to easy to do a DSC under inert gas and falsify Harrit 2009!
^This!

In 30+ years of working in the fabrication industry, mostly in QC, I've had to prove over and over that the welding procedures and qualified welders I worked with met code and client requirements. This occurred on a daily basis and there wasn't any lee-way in what testing was required.

The testing was definitive in proving these procedures and welders could do what was required of them.

If I was required to provide a procedure that could withstand x force and x temperature, I had to provide charpy testing that proved it.

How hard is it to do an inert gas burn test to prove the reaction requires no oxygen?

How hard would it be to send samples to independent labs with a yellow sticky that says, "What am I?"?

(Not quite that simple but you get my point)

And would every lab choose the exact same methodology as Harrit et al?

If not, why?

Is it because the paper itself was only produced to pander to a specific target audience that wouldn't ask such questions?
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Old 25th November 2015, 05:40 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Porkpie Hat View Post
^This!
Nuh, not really because...
Originally Posted by Porkpie Hat View Post
And would every lab choose the exact same methodology as Harrit et al?

If not, why?
...of ^This!

Originally Posted by Porkpie Hat View Post
How hard would it be to send samples to independent labs with a yellow sticky that says, "What am I?"?
But even more so ^This!
Originally Posted by Porkpie Hat View Post
(Not quite that simple but you get my point)
Almost that simple! Include check with the mail, of course.
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Old 25th November 2015, 03:39 PM   #304
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I think we need to do a fact check at this point:

The money raised was to do an independent study where Mark Basile was going to select the chips and they would be examined by an independent lab to determine what they were.

$5000 was raised

Last year, this was changed to.......... Mark was doing "some tests" and after that an independent lab will be used to verify.

I'm going back to the basics. No tricks here, do I have this correct (up to this point, last year).

I'll continue but if someone wants to progress over the last year feel free. Please, stick to fact.
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Old 26th November 2015, 07:16 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I think we need to do a fact check at this point:

The money raised was to do an independent study where Mark Basile was going to select the chips and they would be examined by an independent lab to determine what they were.

$5000 was raised

Last year, this was changed to.......... Mark was doing "some tests" and after that an independent lab will be used to verify.

I'm going back to the basics. No tricks here, do I have this correct (up to this point, last year).

I'll continue but if someone wants to progress over the last year feel free. Please, stick to fact.
Fact it is and has always been a fraudulent idea.
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Old 26th November 2015, 03:01 PM   #306
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...About a year after the last update Ziggi, the newly appointed spokesperson (by who, no one knows) announces that the study is back on track and an update will be made in "early October".

October comes and goes and inquiries are made as to the promised update.

The response is again from Ziggi saying they will give updates when the feel they want to.

More to come. Please correct anything I have said if not correct.
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Old 28th November 2015, 12:53 AM   #307
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He has probably spent the last 3 years sending samples out to a dozen independent labs and they've all come back as paint chips. As was said above, nothing scares truthers more than the truth, and there is no way a result of anything but therm*te would be leaked out. It was fraud from the start. Just let it die with the rest of the truth movement.
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Old 28th November 2015, 01:02 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by cjnewson88 View Post
Just let it die with the rest of the truth movement.
Agreed.

I cannot quantify it BUT to what extent are forums such as this acting as "life support" for the Truth Movement?

Is it time to "pull the plug"??

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Old 28th November 2015, 04:15 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
Agreed.

I cannot quantify it BUT to what extent are forums such as this acting as "life support" for the Truth Movement?

Is it time to "pull the plug"??

It was time to pull the plug, back in 2009, it was always a fraud.

Oh no iron produced in nano Fe 203 at low temperature, causing sol gel nano thermite to self ignite at low temperature.

http://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/947823-859JgA/

The only way that they could have confirmed Harrit and Jones was with an ignert gas ignition test!
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Old 28th November 2015, 04:46 PM   #310
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There's a new addition to the Mark Basile web site.



http://markbasile.org/


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Old 29th November 2015, 05:58 PM   #311
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
There's a new addition to the Mark Basile web site.


http://markbasile.org/


A present for you DGM,

Quote:
Control experiments were conducted using standard fine-particle iron oxide to determine if a
similar activation effect could be seen with high-surface area iron oxide by heating in an inert atmosphere
with added hydrocarbon impurities. A formulation was made with 80% NANOCAT® Superfine Iron
Oxide (MachI Inc.), 10% SPAN® 80 (Uniqema, ICI Americas Inc., used as a dispersed carbon source),
and 10% Fluorel® FC-2175. The material was formulated by ultrasonicating in mixed esters and
evaporating off the solvent. Thermal analysis was conducted on the material with activation temperatures
of 200, 250, and 300 °C. There was no evidence of any exothermic behavior upon switching from argon
to air. This material was taken to ignition (despite not having any aluminum) and a similar trend in
ignition behavior was seen as that with sol-gel thermites as shown in Figure 5. For the three different
activation temperatures of 200, 250, and 300 °C, the ignition temperatures were 230, 244, and 281 °C,
respectively. This exothermic behavior is presumed to be oxidation of reduced iron species; however it is
not understood why these species exhibited no exothermic behavior on the initial gas switch from argon
Nano Iron exposed to a reducing atmosphere can become ignitable.
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Old 1st December 2015, 07:36 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
A present for you DGM,



Nano Iron exposed to a reducing atmosphere can become ignitable.
OK, who is going to bury, this now dead study?
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Old 1st December 2015, 08:29 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
OK, who is going to bury, this now dead study?
The study is dead. The questions that remain are; Who appointed Ziggi the spokes person and what happened to the money?
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Old 1st December 2015, 08:32 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
OK, who is going to bury, this now dead study?
It is not likely to happen because discussion will continue.

Remember the taxonomic hierarchy:

(A) Subject area is 9/11 conspiracy
--- (B) Subset WTC Collapses << Explained as result of impact damage and unfought fires - no viable counter hypotheses
------(C) subSubset claims for CD <<Status No viable pro CD hypothesis to discuss
----------(D) subsubSubset Claims for CD by explosive cutting << essentially disproved subject to use of Scientifically PC language
---------------(E) Alternate subsubSubset Claims -Use of thermXte introduced << a complex of reasons << No viable hypothesis.
---------------------(F) at least three more levels of deeper descent into rabbit burrows. Including descent into tit for tat responses to persinal insults.

Summary:
(1) Discussion has been moot WRT to WTC 9/11 conspiracy since Level (C) since there is no pro CD hypothesis;

(2) No matter how far the "Truthers" or "Trolls" extend the rabbit burrows - some debunkers are willing to follow.
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Old 1st December 2015, 08:35 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
The study is dead. The questions that remain are; Who appointed Ziggi the spokes person and what happened to the money?
"Crossed in posting".

Agreed EXCEPT why single out just one aspect of the trolling tactics? You may have a good reason - I just don't see what it is that is special to make Ziggi's self appointment stand out above the rest of the garbage.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 02:05 AM   #316
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
It is not likely to happen because discussion will continue.

Remember the taxonomic hierarchy:

(A) Subject area is 9/11 conspiracy
--- (B) Subset WTC Collapses << Explained as result of impact damage and unfought fires - no viable counter hypotheses
------(C) subSubset claims for CD <<Status No viable pro CD hypothesis to discuss
----------(D) subsubSubset Claims for CD by explosive cutting << essentially disproved subject to use of Scientifically PC language
---------------(E) Alternate subsubSubset Claims -Use of thermXte introduced << a complex of reasons << No viable hypothesis.
---------------------(F) at least three more levels of deeper descent into rabbit burrows. Including descent into tit for tat responses to persinal insults.

Summary:
(1) Discussion has been moot WRT to WTC 9/11 conspiracy since Level (C) since there is no pro CD hypothesis;

(2) No matter how far the "Truthers" or "Trolls" extend the rabbit burrows - some debunkers are willing to follow.
Agreed, I am though solely looking at this from the point of scientific curiosity, to understand
The chemistry of the fires and rubble pile better.
I now know that simple reduction of the oxide in paint chips with carbon, or SUfur can
Create exothermic chips, that will combust in air but not under inert atmosphere.
What is more interesting though is they provide the natural ignition source for Aluminothermic reactions. Natural forms of thermite, and could have been generated easily in the hydrocarbon fires, in the buildings or in the rubble pile.
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Old 7th December 2015, 08:58 AM   #317
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Ziggi,

I have to ask you again: Who appointed you as spokesperson and gatekeeper? It sure wasn't the people who donated most of the money and who want you to get lost.

Does Richard Gage play any role?
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Old 14th December 2015, 02:40 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Ziggi,

I have to ask you again: Who appointed you as spokesperson and gatekeeper? It sure wasn't the people who donated most of the money and who want you to get lost.

Does Richard Gage play any role?
He's too busy creating a diversion by "discrediting" Chris Mohr to attend to this issue.

He knows his audience, they'll forget about the Basile study in no time.

The interesting part will be to see how far Rick will push to get the money back.......
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Old 14th December 2015, 03:06 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
He's too busy creating a diversion by "discrediting" Chris Mohr to attend to this issue.

He knows his audience, they'll forget about the Basile study in no time.

The interesting part will be to see how far Rick will push to get the money back.......
Twoofers don't give money back warranties, I mean what would Rick do sue in court claiming he was defrauded by a fraud investigating a fraud?
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Old 15th December 2015, 05:30 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
He's too busy creating a diversion by "discrediting" Chris Mohr to attend to this issue.

He knows his audience, they'll forget about the Basile study in no time.

The interesting part will be to see how far Rick will push to get the money back.......
The only question now is how much beer and weed, was bought with the $5000?
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