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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 14th January 2020, 02:13 PM   #1001
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Mikemcc View Post
He didn't do so bad supporting them himself!

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019...t-organization
More money laundering as well, bet that's more profitable than the Trump name franchise. In fact, don't those two businesses go hand in hand?

Quote:
As Davidson noted today, the I.R.G.C. came up with “a clever scheme [to] create hundreds of ‘private’ companies, owned by I.R.G.C. officers, that would fund terror, seek W.M.D, launder money and do other bidding of the central organization.” Many of these companies, including the Darvishi’s Azarpassillo, were “barely disguised.” As The New Yorker reported in 2017, anyone paying half an ounce of attention would have noticed that the Trump Tower project sure carried some hallmarks of a money-laundering operation:
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Old 14th January 2020, 02:20 PM   #1002
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Rumor is that the Senate Dems have enough votes to pass their resolution to limit Trump's authority in Iran, empty as it might be. It would show a break from Trump for a few Republicans.
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Old 14th January 2020, 02:27 PM   #1003
MRC_Hans
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It must be terribly frightening for someone who thinks the deep state has the AWESOME power to fake worldwide news about a whole continent on fire.

Remember they are Americans. A large proportion of Americans don't think anything outside the USA really exists.

Hans
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Old 14th January 2020, 02:27 PM   #1004
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
See the difference in tone, in respect, the differing level of the exchange? But the worst part is, apparently Trump has been doing the opposite of what he is claiming. Proving he is totally untrustworthy. How do people support a president no one can trust? A man who is a serial liar. A man many people feel is basically a con artist, so many people that it seems reasonable there's at least some truth in it.



Man. that's some strong Kool-Aid!
Not "feel" he is a con artist, he's a proven con artist, so its a fact no matter how anyone feels about it.
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Old 14th January 2020, 02:47 PM   #1005
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Remember they are Americans. A large proportion of Americans don't think anything outside the USA really exists.

Hans
Who is "they"? ONE person, a high school acquaintance of An_Animus made the 'Australian bushfires are fake news' comment. Skeptic Ginger referred to that person in her reply. From that you jump to "they are Americans" followed by a stupendously ludicrous claim. Careful...you might be accused of having an anti-American bias with statements like that. There are nuts in every country. Including yours.
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Old 14th January 2020, 02:54 PM   #1006
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Remember they are Americans. A large proportion of Americans don't think anything outside the USA really exists.

Hans
Until it ups and kicks them in the pants.
I an NOT one of these Americans who loves to attack their own country, but I won't defend the incredible ignorance of the outside world many Americans have.
Back in 1942, someone did a great cartoon of an American going about his everyday life, ignoring radio news a about Japan and the Nazi's aggressive moves, and in the final panal he is Jumping up after hearing about Pearl Harbor yelling ":WHY DID"NT ANYBODY WARN ME!?' Still applies.
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Old 14th January 2020, 03:06 PM   #1007
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Until it ups and kicks them in the pants.
I an NOT one of these Americans who loves to attack their own country, but I won't defend the incredible ignorance of the outside world many Americans have.
Back in 1942, someone did a great cartoon of an American going about his everyday life, ignoring radio news a about Japan and the Nazi's aggressive moves, and in the final panal he is Jumping up after hearing about Pearl Harbor yelling ":WHY DID"NT ANYBODY WARN ME!?' Still applies.
I agree that many...not most... Americans don't CARE what goes on outside the US unless, and until, it affects them directly. However, I can't agree that most Americans don't think anything outside the US really exists.
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Old 14th January 2020, 03:07 PM   #1008
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Rumor is that the Senate Dems have enough votes to pass their resolution to limit Trump's authority in Iran, empty as it might be. It would show a break from Trump for a few Republicans.

It's largely symbolic. Peosi's "It has real teeth" is just sheer politics.
Truth is, it's hard to frame something the would put strict limits on the Presidents war making powers while allowing him to respond to genuine emergencies. I guess a time limit after which he woul dneed congressional approval to continue actions would be the closest to something viable.
But then,I don't have much faith in the Congress to handle foreign affairs either, given they have their eyes constanly on the next election, and foreign affairs are a long term problem. What might look good to your voters might be bad long term.
I hope it passes though, just as a rebuke to Donnie.
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Old 14th January 2020, 03:10 PM   #1009
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree that many...not most... Americans don't CARE what goes on outside the US unless, and until, it affects them directly. However, I can't agree that most Americans don't think anything outside the US really exists.
I think Hans was using what is known as "Humourous exaggeration to make a point".
And I though that was pretty obvious.
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Old 14th January 2020, 03:43 PM   #1010
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think Hans was using what is known as "Humourous exaggeration to make a point".
And I though that was pretty obvious.
Well, of course he wasn't being literal unless you think I thought he really meant a lot of Americans think there is a huge black void beyond the US borders. That he was being humorous would only be obvious to those who may have more knowledge of his posts than I do. Frankly, I see so much anti-Americanism that it's hard to tell who is being serious and who isn't. If he was being humorously sarcastic, then I apologize.
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Old 14th January 2020, 05:07 PM   #1011
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
ETA: Ugh.

NYT: Russia Hacks Burisma Ahead of Impeachment Trial

Need much more be said?
I just wonder if they were trying to get something out or put something in (perhaps both).
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Old 14th January 2020, 05:18 PM   #1012
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Trump Tweets

We are helping Apple all of the time on TRADE and so many other issues, and yet they refuse to unlock phones used by killers, drug dealers and other violent criminal elements. They will have to step up to the plate and help our great Country, NOW! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

Cryin’ Chuck Schumer just said, “The American people want a fair trial in the Senate.” True, but why didn’t Nervous Nancy and Corrupt politician Adam “Shifty” Schiff give us a fair trial in the House. It was the most lopsided & unfair basement hearing in the history of Congress!
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Old 14th January 2020, 05:28 PM   #1013
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Well, of course he wasn't being literal unless you think I thought he really meant a lot of Americans think there is a huge black void beyond the US borders.
Outside of this forum, and not counting Americans who have travelled, or military who have been deployed to serve overseas, it is very sadly surprising that this sort of ignorance is EXACTLY the case. There are quite a number of Americans who cannot find even Canada or Mexico on a map, let alone European or Middle Eastern countries. They have no idea what languages are spoken (I have been asked in Boston if we speak English in Australia!) nor anything about world religions. In some places, this extends to ignorance of things outside their own state and even county. And this in the early 21st century...

Quote:
That he was being humorous would only be obvious to those who may have more knowledge of his posts than I do. Frankly, I see so much anti-Americanism that it's hard to tell who is being serious and who isn't. If he was being humorously sarcastic, then I apologize.
To be fair, we non-Americans could see the forced humour immediately. The thing about sarcasm is that when written down it looks a lot like a serious comment. I think you can rest assured that anti-Americanism is actually rare, at least here. It's more like total frustration at seeing a good friend having their place continually trashed by loathsome ratbag neighbour who won't move out.
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Old 14th January 2020, 05:32 PM   #1014
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

We are helping Apple all of the time on TRADE and so many other issues, and yet they refuse to unlock phones used by killers, drug dealers and other violent criminal elements. They will have to step up to the plate and help our great Country, NOW! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

Cryin’ Chuck Schumer just said, “The American people want a fair trial in the Senate.” True, but why didn’t Nervous Nancy and Corrupt politician Adam “Shifty” Schiff give us a fair trial in the House. It was the most lopsided & unfair basement hearing in the history of Congress!
This is not Trump tweeting. He personally has little or no idea about what the impeachment process really is. I suspect he thinks it is like a bankruptcy hearing - he might get a judgement against him but unless it hurts him personally then he doesn't give a crap and will keep on doing the same crimes anyway.
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Old 14th January 2020, 05:58 PM   #1015
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
This is not Trump tweeting. He personally has little or no idea about what the impeachment process really is. I suspect he thinks it is like a bankruptcy hearing - he might get a judgement against him but unless it hurts him personally then he doesn't give a crap and will keep on doing the same crimes anyway.
The post came from someone who doesn't seem to understand the impeachment process, sooo...
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Old 14th January 2020, 06:51 PM   #1016
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Outside of this forum, and not counting Americans who have travelled, or military who have been deployed to serve overseas, it is very sadly surprising that this sort of ignorance is EXACTLY the case. There are quite a number of Americans who cannot find even Canada or Mexico on a map, let alone European or Middle Eastern countries. They have no idea what languages are spoken (I have been asked in Boston if we speak English in Australia!) nor anything about world religions. In some places, this extends to ignorance of things outside their own state and even county. And this in the early 21st century...
I don't agree at all that there are 'quite a number of Americans who cannot find even Canada or Mexico on a map'. Are there some? Sure. But the vast majority certainly can do so. I live here and I know you are assuming something that is not true. Now....identifying European countries...yeah. A lot of people would not be able to identify some outside of perhaps the UK, France, Germany, Spain and Italy. The Middle East? Ya got a point there!

Quote:
To be fair, we non-Americans could see the forced humour immediately. The thing about sarcasm is that when written down it looks a lot like a serious comment. I think you can rest assured that anti-Americanism is actually rare, at least here. It's more like total frustration at seeing a good friend having their place continually trashed by loathsome ratbag neighbour who won't move out.
I agree that written sarcasm is ofen hard to distinguish from a serious post. That's why the should be used.
Anti-Americanism may be rare on ISF, but I've seen it a lot in other groups I belong to.
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Old 14th January 2020, 07:27 PM   #1017
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't agree at all that there are 'quite a number of Americans who cannot find even Canada or Mexico on a map'. Are there some? Sure. But the vast majority certainly can do so. I live here and I know you are assuming something that is not true. Now....identifying European countries...yeah. A lot of people would not be able to identify some outside of perhaps the UK, France, Germany, Spain and Italy. The Middle East? Ya got a point there!
Re the first point, I was working in Oregon (Beaverton) some years ago...well, MANY years ago, and a person I was assigned to work with was one of those "out of my cold dead hands" gun-nuts. Kept a piece in his desk drawer and all. Over a beer or three one evening, it turned out he had no idea Mexico bordered the USA (he thought it was in South America), and was under an impression there was some other country between the USA and Canada (is Washington state a country??). I might point out that he was a lead computer programmer in a high-tech company. Alas, some of his "friends" at the bar were unable to correct him. It was...illuminating!

But I agree - this is a rare exception. The Internet, for all it's faults, has at least expanded awareness of other places and cultures.

Quote:
I agree that written sarcasm is ofen hard to distinguish from a serious post. That's why the should be used.
Anti-Americanism may be rare on ISF, but I've seen it a lot in other groups I belong to.
Other countrys' flags have been burned too. Could it be anti-imperialism rather than anti-Americanism per se?

</derail>
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:59 PM   #1018
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump bragging on Fox how profitably he is selling US force protection to South Korea and Saudi Arabia is disgusting.
Well if it makes you feel any better, it turns out that the U.S. may not be making huge profits in Saudi Arabia after all...

From; http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...e-saudi-arabia
(Trump) : “I said, ‘Listen, you’re a very rich country. You want more troops? I’m going to send them to you, but you have to pay us.’ They’re paying us. They’ve already deposited $1 billion in the bank.”

The Defense Department appeared to contradict Trump’s boast…Pentagon spokesperson Cmdr. Rebecca Rebarich said, “The Department of Defense has engaged Saudi Arabia on contributing to US activities.....discussions are ongoing to formalize these contributions.” There is, of course, a significant difference between Saudi Arabia already “depositing $1 billion in the bank” and “ongoing” discussions with Saudi Arabia about formalizing the country’s “contributions.”


And it gets better!

From: https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/14/polit...bia/index.html
Saudi Arabia has also not reimbursed the US for the cost of aerial refueling operations that the US military provided to Saudi warplanes....In December of 2018 the US military said it was seeking a $331 million reimbursement from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates...More than a year later, the Saudis have still not paid that bill.

So the U.S. hasn't been paid yet, and the Saudis still owe the U.S. a whole lot of cash. I wonder if they ever do pay $1 billion to the U.S., whether part of that will be the cost of refueling or will that be extra?
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Old 14th January 2020, 10:49 PM   #1019
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well if it makes you feel any better, it turns out that the U.S. may not be making huge profits in Saudi Arabia after all...



From; http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...e-saudi-arabia

(Trump) : “I said, ‘Listen, you’re a very rich country. You want more troops? I’m going to send them to you, but you have to pay us.’ They’re paying us. They’ve already deposited $1 billion in the bank.”



The Defense Department appeared to contradict Trump’s boast…Pentagon spokesperson Cmdr. Rebecca Rebarich said, “The Department of Defense has engaged Saudi Arabia on contributing to US activities.....discussions are ongoing to formalize these contributions.” There is, of course, a significant difference between Saudi Arabia already “depositing $1 billion in the bank” and “ongoing” discussions with Saudi Arabia about formalizing the country’s “contributions.”




And it gets better!



From: https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/14/polit...bia/index.html

Saudi Arabia has also not reimbursed the US for the cost of aerial refueling operations that the US military provided to Saudi warplanes....In December of 2018 the US military said it was seeking a $331 million reimbursement from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates...More than a year later, the Saudis have still not paid that bill.



So the U.S. hasn't been paid yet, and the Saudis still owe the U.S. a whole lot of cash. I wonder if they ever do pay $1 billion to the U.S., whether part of that will be the cost of refueling or will that be extra?
Don't worry, Im sure next time Trump mentions it they will have paid the USA 10 billion. If you can't trust the president who can you trust?
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:15 AM   #1020
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...

New Parnas documents show how Rudy's guys might have tried to harm Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch

As in, it's looking far too much like Trump knew and approved of a plot by his minions to cause a US ambassador harm to get her out of their way. As Trump himself claims he said in his call with Zelensky -

Quote:
“Well, she’s going to go through some things.”

Somewhat related, though...

Ukraine prosecutor offered information related to Biden in exchange for ambassador’s ouster, newly released materials show
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:27 AM   #1021
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Looks like the her State Department superiors didn't lie when they said wanted Yovanovitch out of the country for her own safety.
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Old 15th January 2020, 01:44 AM   #1022
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't agree at all that there are 'quite a number of Americans who cannot find even Canada or Mexico on a map'. Are there some? Sure. But the vast majority certainly can do so. I live here and I know you are assuming something that is not true. Now....identifying European countries...yeah. A lot of people would not be able to identify some outside of perhaps the UK, France, Germany, Spain and Italy. The Middle East? Ya got a point there!
Once again, the Mexico/Canada example was, to me, a slight exaggeration to make a point. Wouldn't you be horrified if even a few people didn't know which countries border the US?? You would only ever have had to look at a map once to know this. It's pretty bizarre from my point of view.

trump may refer to **** hole countries, but probably couldn't name them. I wonder how much confidence you might have that the the elected president of the United States could correctly identify countries on a blank map where US troops are stationed. And he's right up there, day in and day out, setting an example for American children whether you like it or not.
trump and the GOP do not seem, to me, to have any interest in arresting this kind of educational deficiency. Worse, they appear to be promoting the notion that it's ok to feel disdain for higher education.

This article quotes a 2015 news report which in turn cites an official 2014 education assessment finding that "almost 75% of American students fall short of proficiency in geography, almost the exact same results as those from 1994". It also refers to a 2003 US education report which concluded that the depth of geographic ignorance in the US could even be viewed as a national security threat. Considering that standard proficiency in geography between 1994 and 2015 showed zero improvement, and we can surmise that probably wouldn't have changed much since 2015, you pretty much have to conclude that Norman Alexander is not far wrong in his assessment of the state of things. This isn't anti-americanism. You guys have a serious problem.

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Old 15th January 2020, 03:50 AM   #1023
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It must be terribly frightening for someone who thinks the deep state has the AWESOME power to fake worldwide news about a whole continent on fire.
That is just silly, they simply faked the existence of Australia in the first place.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:08 AM   #1024
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Trump Retweets

Sarah Dolan Schneider
@sarahedolan
Steyer: Democrats are going to destroy the economy in 15 minutes if they get in control.
TRUE.


Michael Knowles
@michaeljknowles
If the election were held in the 24 hours after this #DemocraticDebate, Trump would win every single state, including Greenland.

Liz Wheeler
@Liz_Wheeler
Your daily reminder that Democrats want to:
- Open borders
- Abolish private health insurance
- Ban your AR-15s
- Give illegal aliens free healthcare
- Raise your taxes
- Abortion without restriction
- Green New Deal
- End school choice

Hal Lambert
@MAGAindex
Where was Biden in “fixing” all the trade deals under 8 yrs of Obama?
Now he claims he can fix every problem in the country.
He’s just a lifelong politician using typical talking points to scam voters.
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:10 AM   #1025
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Trump Retweeted

@LindseyGrahamSC
: “I’m really over with this. This whole thing is a joke. Nothing happened here. We’re not going to impeach this President over this. It’s over, it’s done with.”

Devin Nunes
@DevinNunes
Full blown McCarthyism on display... Did the Russians decide not to play in the 2018 elections so that Pelosi could become speaker again?

Marc Lotter - Text TRUMP to 88022
@marc_lotter
Hey Comrade Sanders, the Iran Deal gave the green light to Iran for a nuclear bomb in a few years - and BILLIONS to fund terror. Your weakness makes America and the world LESS SAFE!
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Old 15th January 2020, 04:39 AM   #1026
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Retweets

Sarah Dolan Schneider
@sarahedolan
Steyer: Democrats are going to destroy the economy in 15 minutes if they get in control.
TRUE.
Yes, just like Clinton and Obama wrecked the American economy during their terms.
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Old 15th January 2020, 06:51 AM   #1027
newyorkguy
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
...(Trump) “...They’ve already deposited $1 billion in the bank.”

The Defense Department appeared to contradict Trump’s boast…Pentagon spokesperson Cmdr. Rebecca Rebarich said, “The Department of Defense has engaged Saudi Arabia on contributing to US activities.....discussions are ongoing to formalize these contributions.”
...
In December of 2018 the US military said it was seeking a $331 million reimbursement from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates...More than a year later, the Saudis have still not paid that bill...
This is exactly what I'm talking about. When Trump says the Saudis paid the U.S. $1 billion, and it's immediately contradicted, given Trump's track record with making false statements, what are Americans supposed to believe? My personal feeling is, Trump must have some reason to claim the Saudis have paid us $1 billion but who knows? It's been proven again and again that many of his statements are NOT true. What kind of a president do we have when you can't believe statements he makes. Some of them are true, I agree, but you never know for sure. You can't trust him.

Why are his supporters unwilling to acknowledge this? Even here on this forum? Where are they now when we need them? LOL As many people have said, if a Democratic president was shown to have lied to the American people repeatedly, rank-and-file Democrats would almost certainly turn against them. They would have a big problem within the Democratic party.

Trump supporters/Republicans need to step up to the plate. I hate to use a Trump phrase, but it's very sad. It really is.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:57 AM   #1028
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
When Trump says the Saudis paid the U.S. $1 billion, and it's immediately contradicted, given Trump's track record with making false statements, what are Americans supposed to believe?
That one’s easy: 40% of them will simply believe him and move on to the next lie.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:23 AM   #1029
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Trump Tweets

Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, @BorisJohnson, stated, “We should replace the Iran deal with the Trump deal.” I agree!

Republicans are fighting for citizens from every background, & from every race, religion, color & creed. We are a movement for ALL AMERICANS who believe in fairness & justice, equality & dignity, opportunity & safety. We are a big tent, & a big party, w/ BIG IDEAS for the future!

Democrats are now the party of high taxes, high crime, open borders, late-term abortion, socialism, and blatant corruption. The Republican Party is the party of the American Worker, the American Family, and the American Dream!

GOD BLESS THE U.S.A.!
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:46 AM   #1030
newyorkguy
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
That one’s easy: 40% of them will simply believe him and move on to the next lie.
That's the problem. They say they believe him but I doubt they really do. But by pretending to believe Trump, his supporters actually become accomplices in his lies. If some of his supporters began to honestly question some of his statements -- including his reasons for making them -- I'm sure Trump would begin to pull it back. But as long as his supporters accept anything he throws out there as truth, he is going to go on making false claims.

The worst part of all is, convinced his supporters will pretend to believe anything he tells them, Trump probably considers most of them to be fools.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:48 AM   #1031
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Johnson stated one of the reasons that Trump backed out of the Iran deal is because it was negotiated by Obama. He was in effect saying, and name it the Trump deal and the pillock will be all over it.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:58 AM   #1032
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree that many...not most... Americans don't CARE what goes on outside the US unless, and until, it affects them directly. However, I can't agree that most Americans don't think anything outside the US really exists.
Perhaps not. Maybe they just pretend. But give us some slack: Right now the esteem of the USA has fallen severely in the eyes in much of the surrounding world. Quite the opposite of making America great again, it will now take some time before anybody really trusts it.

And Trump is not the problem. He is a problem, but the problem is a population fraction and an election system that might well, some day after Trump's term(s) is over, elect someone as bad, or even worse.

Right now a lot of us are trying to hang on to the humorous side of it all, but it is getting hard.

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Old 15th January 2020, 10:15 AM   #1033
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
That's the problem. They say they believe him but I doubt they really do. But by pretending to believe Trump, his supporters actually become accomplices in his lies. If some of his supporters began to honestly question some of his statements -- including his reasons for making them -- I'm sure Trump would begin to pull it back. But as long as his supporters accept anything he throws out there as truth, he is going to go on making false claims.

The worst part of all is, convinced his supporters will pretend to believe anything he tells them, Trump probably considers most of them to be fools.
That they couldn't figure that out from the "I could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Ave...." statement counts as a "shame on me" moment for them.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:36 AM   #1034
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Johnson stated one of the reasons that Trump backed out of the Iran deal is because it was negotiated by Obama. He was in effect saying, and name it the Trump deal and the pillock will be all over it.
"One of the reasons"? Pretty much the only reason. That ****** mocked him, and Trump will never get over it.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:45 AM   #1035
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Johnson stated one of the reasons that Trump backed out of the Iran deal is because it was negotiated by Obama. He was in effect saying, and name it the Trump deal and the pillock will be all over it.
The whole relationship between the United States and the U.K. is a mess...Its hard to say how serious Johnson was about his statement, or if he was just mocking Trump.

- The U.S. is considering pulling out of a free trade deal with the U.K. if they don't agree to impose sanctions on Iran

- Boris Johnson was one of the world leaders who was caught on camera when Trump was being mocked

- Trump's actions in the middle east (pulling out of Syria, threats against Iranian cultural sites) has resulted in condemnation from various politicians (including Johnson and various cabinet members), and they have made statements that they have to look for 'other allies' (and may even withdraw from defense agreements with the U.S.)

- The Trump administration is threatening to end intelligence sharing with the U.K. if they allow Huawei to be part of their cellular infrastructure

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ays-trump-ally

https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-a...soleiman2020-1
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:53 AM   #1036
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The whole relationship between the United States and the U.K. is a mess...Its hard to say how serious Johnson was about his statement, or if he was just mocking Trump.

- The U.S. is considering pulling out of a free trade deal with the U.K. if they don't agree to impose sanctions on Iran

- Boris Johnson was one of the world leaders who was caught on camera when Trump was being mocked

- Trump's actions in the middle east (pulling out of Syria, threats against Iranian cultural sites) has resulted in condemnation from various politicians (including Johnson and various cabinet members), and they have made statements that they have to look for 'other allies' (and may even withdraw from defense agreements with the U.S.)

- The Trump administration is threatening to end intelligence sharing with the U.K. if they allow Huawei to be part of their cellular infrastructure

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ays-trump-ally

https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-a...soleiman2020-1
You know, you have to work REALLY hard to make Boris Johnson look like the reasonable statesman.
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:01 PM   #1037
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Re the first point, I was working in Oregon (Beaverton) some years ago...well, MANY years ago, and a person I was assigned to work with was one of those "out of my cold dead hands" gun-nuts. Kept a piece in his desk drawer and all. Over a beer or three one evening, it turned out he had no idea Mexico bordered the USA (he thought it was in South America), and was under an impression there was some other country between the USA and Canada (is Washington state a country??). I might point out that he was a lead computer programmer in a high-tech company. Alas, some of his "friends" at the bar were unable to correct him. It was...illuminating!

But I agree - this is a rare exception. The Internet, for all it's faults, has at least expanded awareness of other places and cultures.

Other countrys' flags have been burned too. Could it be anti-imperialism rather than anti-Americanism per se?

</derail>
What company? I live very near Beaverton...next town over.

As I said, there are idiots everywhere. But, living in the PDX metro area, I find it impossible to believe he actually didn't know WA is a state. A large part of the computer tech industry employees live in WA and work in OR or vice versa. My husband is in the computer tech industry and commuted to WA for a few years as did several others in the company. Portland is literally across the Columbia River from WA. I think he was pulling your leg. You'd have to have the IQ of an idiot not to know WA is a state living in the PDX metro area.
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:03 PM   #1038
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
That one’s easy: 40% of them will simply believe him and move on to the next lie.
So, I’d say it is a hodge podge....
(1) of not ever being exposed to other news sources,
(2) of being exposed to other news sources but discounting them because the president has groomed them into doubting everything other than what he says
(3) of not understanding how complicated many problems are
(4) of knowing that the president lies about some things, but believing that his underlying message is accurate
(5) of knowing that they lost a bunch of friends when they supported President Trump and knowing that they may lose all the rest if they turn away now

Obviously there is overlap.

I have never thought about #5 before. It’s clear the never-Trumpers will never welcome those folks back.

ETA
(5a) of knowing that they may lose a spouse if they admit the emperor has no clothes.
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:14 PM   #1039
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
Once again, the Mexico/Canada example was, to me, a slight exaggeration to make a point. Wouldn't you be horrified if even a few people didn't know which countries border the US?? You would only ever have had to look at a map once to know this. It's pretty bizarre from my point of view.

trump may refer to **** hole countries, but probably couldn't name them. I wonder how much confidence you might have that the the elected president of the United States could correctly identify countries on a blank map where US troops are stationed. And he's right up there, day in and day out, setting an example for American children whether you like it or not.
trump and the GOP do not seem, to me, to have any interest in arresting this kind of educational deficiency. Worse, they appear to be promoting the notion that it's ok to feel disdain for higher education.

This article quotes a 2015 news report which in turn cites an official 2014 education assessment finding that "almost 75% of American students fall short of proficiency in geography, almost the exact same results as those from 1994". It also refers to a 2003 US education report which concluded that the depth of geographic ignorance in the US could even be viewed as a national security threat. Considering that standard proficiency in geography between 1994 and 2015 showed zero improvement, and we can surmise that probably wouldn't have changed much since 2015, you pretty much have to conclude that Norman Alexander is not far wrong in his assessment of the state of things. This isn't anti-americanism. You guys have a serious problem.
I have already apologized for misunderstanding that the post was sarcastic humor. I thought he was being serious.

Yes, Americans do tend to be geographically challenged which I also admitted. However, the "almost 75% of American students fall short of proficiency in geography" assessment pertains to worldwide geography. It does not mean that most could not identify Canada and Mexico. Common sense tells me that identifying the 2 countries just north and south of your own is far more likely than being able to fill in a map of SE Asia or S. America.
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:33 PM   #1040
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Perhaps not. Maybe they just pretend. But give us some slack: Right now the esteem of the USA has fallen severely in the eyes in much of the surrounding world. Quite the opposite of making America great again, it will now take some time before anybody really trusts it.

And Trump is not the problem. He is a problem, but the problem is a population fraction and an election system that might well, some day after Trump's term(s) is over, elect someone as bad, or even worse.

Right now a lot of us are trying to hang on to the humorous side of it all, but it is getting hard.

Hans
I agree with this.
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