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Old 31st January 2020, 02:30 PM   #721
Thor 2
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Who said that I rejected either of these two gods? (Give me the post number).

I could have sworn I saw such a post.

Then again who can say for sure what you are on about. Lack of comprehension is the problem to be sure. Of course it's our own fault - all of us who don't have the where with all to understand you lucid posts.
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Old 31st January 2020, 03:10 PM   #722
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
I'm not confused, I think you are wrong.

Not being able to prove a thing is impossible doesn't mean it's possible.
Not being able to prove a thing is possible doesn't mean it's impossible.
Not being able to prove a thing is possible or impossible means you don't know.

Not being able to prove a jar contains an odd number of jellybeans, because you don't and will never have an opportunity to count them, isn't proof it contains an even number (and vice versa). If the jar in fact contains an odd number then it's impossible it contains an even number. Knowledge confirms the fact, it doesn't create it.


Amen.
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Old 31st January 2020, 08:59 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I could have sworn I saw such a post.
So, no post number then.

Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Then again who can say for sure what you are on about.
Anybody who actually reads my posts.

There was a post where I pointed out that listing different gods (Jehovah, Buddha, Allah etc) doesn't increase the probability that there is a god. If that is the post you are referring to then you are definitely not reading my posts.
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Old 1st February 2020, 03:23 AM   #724
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Who said that I rejected either of these two gods? (Give me the post number).
Those gods have different characteristics to your pgod.

Which god do you not reject?
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Old 1st February 2020, 03:44 AM   #725
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Those gods have different characteristics to your pgod.
What characteristics? What "pgod"?

(That should keep you away from this thread for a couple of days).
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Old 1st February 2020, 04:12 AM   #726
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
I suspect it may be nothing more substantive than the "There must be something" god.
His pgod if I recall only had two characteristics, it created the entire universe and is undectable , the gods of the Abrahamic and Hindu religions even the ones that claim to create everything are all detectable and also have many additional characteristics that if you ignore you are of course redefining those religions gods.
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Old 1st February 2020, 04:17 AM   #727
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
What characteristics? What "pgod"?



(That should keep you away from this thread for a couple of days).
Which god do you not reject?
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Old 1st February 2020, 07:14 AM   #728
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To answer the OP...

When people go on and on and on and on etc... maybe?
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Old 1st February 2020, 07:46 AM   #729
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
What? Do you think that we can have a sensible discussion about this with the equivalent of flat earthers? Let's try:

GR predicts that the universe originates as a singularity. However, GR doesn't apply to dimensions that are subatomic - let alone of the order of a singularity. That is one of the reasons for a search for a unifying theory.

String theory is one such theory. However, in order for the mathematics to work, we require more than 4 space time dimensions (as many as 26 for bosonic string theory).

We don't yet know how to test for the existence of these dimensions but we "know" that none of them contain any intelligence (other than the 3 spatial dimensions we already know). Right?
A common pop-sci misinterpretation of what the extra dimensions of string theory actually mean.
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Old 1st February 2020, 12:34 PM   #730
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
To answer the OP...

When people go on and on and on and on etc... maybe?
Well psion10’s god, that’s all gods and no gods, that’s been clearly explained with no explanation, that’s everything except everything everyone else thinks it might be, is a Neverending Story serial soap opera filled with such “Don’t miss the next exciting episode” mystery and intrigue that the captivated audience are compulsive participants (can’t wait to see the movie and get the tee shirt).

So not so much silly as entertaining, and an example of how irrational god beliefs are and how dishonesty they can be presented by not being honestly presented.
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Old 1st February 2020, 12:39 PM   #731
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Ooooops - Mistake
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Old 1st February 2020, 12:47 PM   #732
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
A common pop-sci misinterpretation of what the extra dimensions of string theory actually mean.
I have knot been strung along by string theory
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Old 1st February 2020, 01:57 PM   #733
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
So, no post number then.


Anybody who actually reads my posts.

There was a post where I pointed out that listing different gods (Jehovah, Buddha, Allah etc) doesn't increase the probability that there is a god. If that is the post you are referring to then you are definitely not reading my posts.

I looked and looked back several pages to no avail. Perhaps you deleted it but there is also the possibility I misconstrued what you were saying, as I struggled to comprehend your writings with my limited ability.

Oh ...... Jehovah and Allah are arguably the same god - just different names.

Buddha was never considered a god. Did some cool things like levitating and stuff but never claimed to be a god.
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Old 1st February 2020, 06:55 PM   #734
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
His pgod if I recall only had two characteristics, it created the entire universe and is undectable , the gods of the Abrahamic and Hindu religions even the ones that claim to create everything are all detectable and also have many additional characteristics that if you ignore you are of course redefining those religions gods.
And the straw piles on.

Arthwollipot doesn't agree with a word that I post but at least he disagrees with what I actually post.

You might want to look at our exchange (it isn't far back) if your sole interest is not in discrediting me by any means possible (honest or dishonest).
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Old 2nd February 2020, 12:27 AM   #735
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
A common pop-sci misinterpretation of what the extra dimensions of string theory actually mean.
I said nothing about the extra dimensions of string theory other than that you have to assume they exist in order for the mathematics to work.

Another case where I can't be refuted unless you put the words in my mouth that you want to refute.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 07:37 AM   #736
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I said nothing about the extra dimensions of string theory other than that you have to assume they exist in order for the mathematics to work.
Wow. You even got that back to front.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Another case where I can't be refuted unless you put the words in my mouth that you want to refute.
I have no need. You are doing a fine job demonstrating your own ignorance.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 07:56 AM   #737
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
And the straw piles on.

Arthwollipot doesn't agree with a word that I post but at least he disagrees with what I actually post.

You might want to look at our exchange (it isn't far back) if your sole interest is not in discrediting me by any means possible (honest or dishonest).
I have no interest in discrediting you, this is called a discussion, if you wish to correct a post I have made you can very simply do so.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 08:52 AM   #738
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Wow. You even got that back to front.
Anybody can say, "you're stupid". Why not enlighten us instead?
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Old 2nd February 2020, 08:54 AM   #739
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I said nothing about..
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
And the straw piles on..
You know if I spent 90% of my life telling people what I'm not saying, eventually I'd learn to clarify what I am saying.

But that's not your game is it? If you actually make a clear point someone might be able to actually explain to you why you are wrong and... well we can't have that can we?

I don't think you know what your actual argument is beyond "I don't like atheists and want to better then them."

Please, I beg you to make my point better then I ever could, just call my argument "straw" or say "I'm not saying that" for the 50th billionth time.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 09:02 AM   #740
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
But that's not your game is it?
I'm not the one playing games but you are. When you are not shooting into 100 different tangents at once you are twisting what I post so that you can discredit it.

The alternative would be to concede that there are no answers and that doesn't fit with your "there are no gods" creed.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 09:04 AM   #741
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I'm not the one playing games but you are. When you are not shooting into 100 different tangents at once you are twisting what I post so that you can discredit it.

The alternative would be to concede that there are no answers and that doesn't fit with your "there are no gods" creed.
That doesn't sound anything like clarifying what your actual argument is.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 10:30 AM   #742
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
And the straw piles on.

Arthwollipot doesn't agree with a word that I post but at least he disagrees with what I actually post.

You might want to look at our exchange (it isn't far back) if your sole interest is not in discrediting me by any means possible (honest or dishonest).
The one who is making a case with straw is you. You don't even attempt to make your beliefs and claims clear.

Is it because you know they are impossible to prove and you don't have any good reason to believe in them?

This would not be any different than any other God believer.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 10:53 AM   #743
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
The one who is making a case with straw is you. You don't even attempt to make your beliefs and claims clear.

Is it because you know they are impossible to prove and you don't have any good reason to believe in them?

This would not be any different than any other God believer.
No it's you.

You can't rebut "we don't have any answers" so you change it to "a belief in a specific god". That way, you can interpret my actual position as being "evasive".
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Old 2nd February 2020, 10:55 AM   #744
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
No it's you.

You can't rebut "we don't have any answers" so you change it to "a belief in a specific god". That way, you can interpret my actual position as being "evasive".
*Looks carefully* I still don't see where you are clarifying what your actual point, problem, opinion, argument, or stance is.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 11:28 AM   #745
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
The alternative would be to concede that there are no answers and that doesn't fit with your "there are no gods" creed.
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You can't rebut "we don't have any answers" so you change it to "a belief in a specific god". That way, you can interpret my actual position as being "evasive".
Please remind me/us (for clarity). What's the question "there are no answers" to, and "we don't have any answers" to?
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Old 2nd February 2020, 11:53 AM   #746
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Anybody can say, "you're stupid". Why not enlighten us instead?
Because...

A) I did not call you stupid.

B) This forum does not support typing out the math.

C) You could read a book or two and learn.

For example, you claimed that one must assume that other dimensions exist a priori for string theory to work. That is false.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 11:56 AM   #747
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
The alternative would be to concede that there are no answers and that doesn't fit with your "there are no gods" creed.
What is the atheist "creed", in your opinion?

Because to date, I have only seen theists make such a bovine argument.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 12:54 PM   #748
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
What is the atheist "creed", in your opinion?
I'm sure we'll get an answer to as to what he thinks our opinion is right after we get a simple answer on what his opinion is.

This type of apolgetics isn't an opinion, it's a persona. In his head atheist who just say "There is no God" without groveling and apologies and hiding it behind "But I could be wrong" are unacceptable.

That's why he can't give us an answer, because he doesn't have one.

It's not a matter if there is or isn't a God or some meaningless "Stop, I demand you define exactly how you've proven something isn't so" it's the idea that saying "There is no God" is somehow some horrible, unreasonable assault on the rights of people to think there is a God or some other act of intellectual hubris.

The fact that people say all manner of definitive statements without issue continues to be lost on them.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 01:13 PM   #749
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm sure we'll get an answer to as to what he thinks our opinion is right after we get a simple answer on what his opinion is.

This type of apolgetics isn't an opinion, it's a persona. In his head atheist who just say "There is no God" without groveling and apologies and hiding it behind "But I could be wrong" are unacceptable.

That's why he can't give us an answer, because he doesn't have one.

It's not a matter if there is or isn't a God or some meaningless "Stop, I demand you define exactly how you've proven something isn't so" it's the idea that saying "There is no God" is somehow some horrible, unreasonable assault on the rights of people to think there is a God or some other act of intellectual hubris.

The fact that people say all manner of definitive statements without issue continues to be lost on them.
Interesting, is it not? Psionl0 is adopting the archetypical theist position on atheism. Indeed, just a mere step away from Pascal's wager. All the while denying his/her own theism. It goes beyond pretzel logic into flat out Escher.

For myself, as an atheist, I believe in no gods. If evidence rocks up for whichever deity, I would accept the existence of said deity. So far, there is no evidence for any of the thousands of claimed deities.

Thus, for me, it is rather simple. I accept that on the far side of possibility, some deity might possibly exist if one squints enough. Not going to accept it absent any evidence of any sort.

One might as well propose invisible garage dragons. The result is the very same.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 03:53 PM   #750
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Looks carefully* I still don't see where you are clarifying what your actual point, problem, opinion, argument, or stance is.
That's seems impossible for Psion. Everyone keeps asking for clarification and he just plays games. Normally, most people want the people they converse with to understand them. Clearly, Psion is an exception.

Me, I'm not a big fan of being jerked off. I can do that myself.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 07:33 PM   #751
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Originally Posted by ynot View Post
If you want to believe “it is true that a seven legged, three winged fire breathing, five headed, invisible, magical dragon is logically possible”, then moving on is a good idea.
Okay.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 09:07 PM   #752
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Well obviously that's because you and I have a different opinion about whether it was. Can we move on now?
Originally Posted by ynot View Post
If you want to believe “it is true that a seven legged, three winged fire breathing, five headed, invisible, magical dragon is logically possible”, then moving on is a good idea.
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Okay.

I think we have plumbed the absolute depths of silliness now. No way but up from here.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 09:27 PM   #753
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I think we have plumbed the absolute depths of silliness now. No way but up from here.
Who or what are you calling silly?
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Old 2nd February 2020, 09:43 PM   #754
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Sometimes you have to stop arguing and just let someone be wrong.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 03:20 AM   #755
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I've looked back and pgod was described as creating everything and being undetectable.

This is one of the posts that he brings up his personal take on a god.

"So a God that creates the universe, works miracles and (presumably) nobody sees is not like any god ever described?"
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Old 3rd February 2020, 04:17 AM   #756
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I've looked back and pgod was described as creating everything and being undetectable.

This is one of the posts that he brings up his personal take on a god.

"So a God that creates the universe, works miracles and (presumably) nobody sees is not like any god ever described?"
That is the Abrahamic God that I have already discussed with Arthwollipot.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 04:36 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That is the Abrahamic God that I have already discussed with Arthwollipot.
No it is not. The Abrahamic gods, or rather the smaller subset of Abrahamic gods you appear to be familiar with are seen, heard, felt and interact in visible ways throughout the history of those religions. A god that remains unseen is not a god that the Abrahamic religions have as their gods.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 05:29 AM   #758
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I said nothing about the extra dimensions of string theory other than that you have to assume they exist in order for the mathematics to work.

Another case where I can't be refuted unless you put the words in my mouth that you want to refute.
Dude, even the crickets are dead at this point.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:05 AM   #759
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Sometimes you have to stop arguing and just let someone be wrong.
Yeah we do that and then a few years later "Wait how did this reality denying manchild who no possible facts or arguments can stop wind up in the White House? Who could have seen this coming?"

//And no I'm not 100% joking//
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:27 AM   #760
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That is the Abrahamic God that I have already discussed with Arthwollipot.
Well, no, not really. The crank deity you propose created everything and promptly vanished without trace. That is not remotely close to any version of the "Abrahamic God".

I have no idea why you think it might be.

As far as I can see, you are proposing some ethereal deity that lives in the disproven aether on the basis that nobody can prove you wrong.

I could be mistaken, of course, but that is how you presented yourself and your notion while carefully maintaining a modicum of plausible deniability.

So let us cut to the chase. Do you accept the existence of a deity? No question about whatever attributes he/she/it/housecat may or may not have. Just the simple existence of such an entity.

Do you think you can honestly answer that? Please do try.
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