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Tags 2020 elections , Michael Bloomberg , presidential candidates

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Old 12th February 2020, 05:42 AM   #121
applecorped
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
At least he would not be a crude, ignorant bigot with real emotional issues....
"you can just Xerox (copy)Ē the description of male, minorities 16-25 and hand to cops." Bloomberg
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Old 12th February 2020, 05:50 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
At least he would not be a crude, ignorant bigot with real emotional issues....
Yes, Bloomberg is very polite about his implementation of systematic racism through targeted civil rights abuses.
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:36 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yes, Bloomberg is very polite about his implementation of systematic racism through targeted civil rights abuses.

Last night I saw multiple airings of a commercial talking about how much he had worked to improve educational opportunities in African-American neighborhoods.
It wasn't damage control. Honest.
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Old 12th February 2020, 08:02 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Last night I saw multiple airings of a commercial talking about how much he had worked to improve educational opportunities in African-American neighborhoods.
It wasn't damage control. Honest.
He did that with school choice, vouchers, and charter schools. That's unlikely to be a plus in the Dem primary.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:06 AM   #125
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I would vote for Bloomberg in the primaries, but he is running in the wrong party. He would be the best Republican to choose from, but he doesn't even make it onto the map as a Democrat.

Just wait until he gets on stage and the other candidates get to thank him for the Senators he has supported in the recent past. The only one I've heard about voted to confirm Justice Beergoggles to the Supreme Court, but I'm sure there are others.


ETA: He only apologized for stop n frisk after he decided to run. Not after the Supreme Court told him it was unconstitutional. After it became political baggage.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:23 AM   #126
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Since the current Republicans would never nominate him, perhaps it is time to change party vote this once.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:24 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I would vote for Bloomberg in the primaries, but he is running in the wrong party. He would be the best Republican to choose from, but he doesn't even make it onto the map as a Democrat.

Just wait until he gets on stage and the other candidates get to thank him for the Senators he has supported in the recent past. The only one I've heard about voted to confirm Justice Beergoggles to the Supreme Court, but I'm sure there are others.


ETA: He only apologized for stop n frisk after he decided to run. Not after the Supreme Court told him it was unconstitutional. After it became political baggage.
Support for "stop and frisk" will play well for him in the suburbs of Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Miami. Areas that we need to win decisively.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:32 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Since the current Republicans would never nominate him, perhaps it is time to change party vote this once.
I can't quite follow what you mean.


Aside from that, as I mentioned upthread, there's a decent argument that he could do more damage to Trump by running in the Rep primaries. He should run in both. Use all the same ads, "Vote for me because Trump sucks!" and see what happens.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:44 AM   #129
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Bloomberg can't even theoretically win against Trump when running as a Republican - he would split the vote, making a D win extremely likely.
And it requires a special kind of voters (cough* Libertarians *cough) to vote for a clear loser to elect the party you don't want.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:46 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Support for "stop and frisk" will play well for him in the suburbs of Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Miami. Areas that we need to win decisively.
Do those really matter if you lose most minority voters?

Why not pick someone who has a chance to pick up both?

ETA: If we are so worried about centrists we could always ask Bush to run as a democrat. He may like a second library.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:49 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
ETA: He only apologized for stop n frisk after he decided to run. Not after the Supreme Court told him it was unconstitutional. After it became political baggage.
Yes, and in his apology he gave a false narrative where he decided to stop doing stop-and-frisk after he realized the effect it was having, blah blah blah.

In reality, he fought tooth and nail against the courts in favor of the policy, and the only reason he stopped was because he lost the appeal. And still actively defended it until he decided to run for president.

I wouldn't vote for him if he was on fire and I had flame-retardant votes.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:53 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Do those really matter if you lose most minority voters?

Why not pick someone who has a chance to pick up both?

ETA: If we are so worried about centrists we could always ask Bush to run as a democrat. He may like a second library.
I am not so sure we will lose minority votes.
In fact, doesn't Bloomberg poll second only to Biden with minorities currently?
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:58 AM   #133
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I’m not sure why anyone is suggesting he should have run as a Republican. “Stop and frisk” aside, on the current US political spectrum he’s a mainstream Democrat not a Republican.
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Old 12th February 2020, 10:04 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
"you can just Xerox (copy)” the description of male, minorities 16-25 and hand to cops." Bloomberg

The full quote is
Quote:
“it’s controversial, but first thing is, all of your — 95 percent of your murders, murderers and murder victims, fit one M.O. You can just take the description, Xerox it and pass it out to all the cops. They are male minorities, 15 to 25. That’s true in New York. It’s true in virtually every city. And that’s where the real crime is. You’ve got to get the guns out of the hands of the people that are getting killed.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...frisk-problem/

He also said this:
Quote:
We want to spend a lot of money, put a lot of cops in the street, put those cops where the crime is, which is in the minority neighborhoods. So this is — one of the unintended consequences is, people say, “Oh my God, you are arresting kids for marijuana that are all minorities.” Yes, that’s true. Why? Because we put all the cops in the minority neighborhoods. Yes, that’s true. Why do we do it? Because that’s where all the crime is.

And the first thing you can do for people is to stop them getting killed. Now we did a calculation of how many people who would have been dead if we hadn’t brought down the murder rate and gotten guns off the streets. And the way you get the guns out of the kids’ hands is to throw 'em against the wall and frisk 'em. And then they start — they say, “I don’t want to get caught,” so they don’t bring the gun. They still have a gun, but they leave it at home.
Not to be tactless here, but is he right? There's no excuse for harassing innocent people, but if the demographic is consistent, it makes sense to focus police attention on that one over others. Wall Street brokers might be committing crimes, but they're not shooting each other in the streets. Note that his goal was to save victims' lives at a time when the crime rates were soaring in NYC.

I dunno if "racism!" is all that's going on here.

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Old 12th February 2020, 10:09 AM   #135
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Stop and Frisk has been shown not to work. By design it targeted minorities and did nothing but drive a wedge between police and the community.

Crime was not soaring in NYC.

S&F might not be as blatant as yelling the N-word randomly, but it is institutionally racist.
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Old 12th February 2020, 10:36 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The full quote is

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...frisk-problem/

He also said this:


Not to be tactless here, but is he right? There's no excuse for harassing innocent people, but if the demographic is consistent, it makes sense to focus police attention on that one over others. Wall Street brokers might be committing crimes, but they're not shooting each other in the streets. Note that his goal was to save victims' lives at a time when the crime rates were soaring in NYC.

I dunno if "racism!" is all that's going on here.
Harassing innocent people is how the program is supposed to work. The whole idea is that the high frequency of causeless searches would discourage the carrying of firearms. If everyone is getting searched, it eliminates the ability to "fly under the radar". The vast majority of stops produced nothing, and that was by design.

It would be one thing if Bloomberg had advocated increasing a police presence in high crimes neighborhoods. That isn't what he did.

He had a policy of subjecting hundreds of thousands of people to unconstitutional searches simply because they lived in poor, minority communities.
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Old 12th February 2020, 10:47 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
He had a policy of subjecting hundreds of thousands of people to unconstitutional searches simply because they lived in poor, minority communities.
I wonder if that might actually help attract some erstwhile Republicans.
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Old 12th February 2020, 10:52 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
I’m not sure why anyone is suggesting he should have run as a Republican. “Stop and frisk” aside, on the current US political spectrum he’s a mainstream Democrat not a Republican.
This was the criticism he used to get from the right. It was certainly true prior to the last 6 months.

The only reason I think he should run as a Republican is because I don't think he can win the Dem om and it stands a better chance of hurting Trumps chances. Well, it stands a chance anyway, where running as a Dem stands the chance of hurting the eventual Dem nominee.

Granted that's mostly just speculation on my part and probably just marginal differences if at all.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:25 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The full quote is

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...frisk-problem/

He also said this:


Not to be tactless here, but is he right? There's no excuse for harassing innocent people, but if the demographic is consistent, it makes sense to focus police attention on that one over others. Wall Street brokers might be committing crimes, but they're not shooting each other in the streets. Note that his goal was to save victims' lives at a time when the crime rates were soaring in NYC.

I dunno if "racism!" is all that's going on here.
The SEC has always been much more likely to targeted rich white men with itís investigations. Likewise this is the group the IRS is most likely to target with an audit.

The problem with stop and frisk isnít necessarily that itís wrong to target the group/groups most likely to commit the crime you are dealing with, itís that the policy is ultimately carried out by people who are putting inordinate focus on skin color when defining that group. The result is that ordinary people in ordinary clothes doing ordinary things are prone to be stopped simply because they are black.

In the worst case you get situations like the one the Daily Show defenced back in the Jon Stewart days. They were filming a segment and had interns in grubby mismatched clothes carrying expensive television equipment out of an upscale office building and the only person who police stopped was a black prodder in a well made suit heading into the building.

It doesnít matter if the underlying idea is ok, if it canít be implemented fairly itís still a problem, Bloomberg would be far from the first rich white guy to mistakenly assume that because police had always treated him fairly that everyone else was also being treated fairly.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:34 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post

The only reason I think he should run as a Republican is because I don't think he can win the Dem om and it stands a better chance of hurting Trumps chances. Well, it stands a chance anyway, where running as a Dem stands the chance of hurting the eventual Dem nominee.
This makes no sense. He canít run as a Republican unless he wins the primary and replaces Trump as the Republicans candidate. Even if the Republican primary this year wasnít a simple rubber-stamping of Trump, where no one else is even allowed on the ballot in many states, there would be almost no chance of him winning the Republican primary because heís a mainstream Democrat, not a Republican.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:37 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
This makes no sense. He can’t run as a Republican unless he wins the primary and replaces Trump as the Republicans candidate. Even if the Republican primary this year wasn’t a simple rubber-stamping of Trump, where no one else is even allowed on the ballot in many states, there would be almost no chance of him winning the Republican primary because he’s a mainstream Democrat, not a Republican.
I thought it was clear that I was talking about running in the primaries. I know he can't win in the GOP primaries but I don't see any evidence that he can win in the Dem primaries either. All I think he will end up doing is weakening whoever he runs against in the primary, therefore, I want him to run in the GOP primaries rather than the Dem primary.

It would also make it a lot harder to explain why no one else is allowed on the ballot.

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Old 12th February 2020, 12:00 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I am not so sure we will lose minority votes.
In fact, doesn't Bloomberg poll second only to Biden with minorities currently?
Not sure about all minorities, but yes, he is currently polling behind Biden (and ahead of Sanders) in the African American demographic.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/89515...falls-new-poll
Biden's support among black Democrats dropped to 27 percent in the new poll, from 51 percent in December. And it appears that much of that support shifted to Bloomberg, who jumped to 22 percent support among black voters, followed by Sanders (19 percent), Warren (8 percent), and former Mayor Pete Buttigieg (4 percent).

Strange that a mayor that maintained such a racist policy would get so much support from black voters. A few possibilities:

- Maybe many black voters were simply unaware of this particular issue. After all, it was an issue centered primarily on New York, and voters in other states may not have even been aware it was happening

- Maybe they accepted his apology as genuine. Yes, the timing of it was questionable (coming right before he entered the race), but it was well-scripted

- Maybe its a strategic thing... they may not totally believe Bloomberg, but they really really hate Trump, and they think Bloomberg has the best chance at defeating Stubby McBonespurs in the next election.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:06 PM   #143
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Three (more? not clear on that) members of the Congressional Black Caucus endorse Bloomberg.



https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/polit...nts/index.html
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:08 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Strange that a mayor that maintained such a racist policy would get so much support from black voters. A few possibilities:

And another possibility from the article I just cited is that that isn't the only policy he has that black voters care about.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:14 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I thought it was clear that I was talking about running in the primaries.
Running the primaries won't hurt Trump in the election.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:30 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Running the primaries won't hurt Trump in the election.
Running in the GOP primary will hurt Trump in the general.

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Old 12th February 2020, 12:34 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
The SEC has always been much more likely to targeted rich white men with itís investigations. Likewise this is the group the IRS is most likely to target with an audit.
You would think so, but you might be wrong.

IRS targets Wealth-Depleted Southern Black Belt

IRS Targets Poor, Mostly Black Rural Counties

Quote:
......
By comparison, counties around the U.S. with the lowest audit rates tend to have higher incomes and a population that's mostly white. Denali, Alaska, with the lowest audit rate of all U.S. counties, is 84 percent white and has a median household income of more than $83,000, according to Census Data.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:54 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
The people the IRS scrutinize most intensely are the ones who make the most money. This outweighs any other bias, and since this group tends to be older, male and very white, itís inevitable that this group receives the most attention.

It would not surprise me in the least of African Americans are targeted more often after you adjust for everything, but that wasnít my point. The point I was making is that even if a policy is reasonable it does not mean itís carried out fairly.
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Old 12th February 2020, 01:05 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Not sure about all minorities, but yes, he is currently polling behind Biden (and ahead of Sanders) in the African American demographic.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/89515...falls-new-poll
Biden's support among black Democrats dropped to 27 percent in the new poll, from 51 percent in December. And it appears that much of that support shifted to Bloomberg, who jumped to 22 percent support among black voters, followed by Sanders (19 percent), Warren (8 percent), and former Mayor Pete Buttigieg (4 percent).

Strange that a mayor that maintained such a racist policy would get so much support from black voters. A few possibilities:

- Maybe many black voters were simply unaware of this particular issue. After all, it was an issue centered primarily on New York, and voters in other states may not have even been aware it was happening

- Maybe they accepted his apology as genuine. Yes, the timing of it was questionable (coming right before he entered the race), but it was well-scripted

- Maybe its a strategic thing... they may not totally believe Bloomberg, but they really really hate Trump, and they think Bloomberg has the best chance at defeating Stubby McBonespurs in the next election.
-Maybe many see it as a good idea to attempt to reduce crime in high-crime neighborhoods with largely minority populations, even.
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Old 12th February 2020, 01:07 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
The people the IRS scrutinize most intensely are the ones who make the most money.
Nothing was adjusted. Read the links.

Quote:
Little Humphreys County --home to fewer than 10,000 residents and known for its catfish farming -- is one of eight counties in Mississippi that comprise the 10 most highly audited U.S. counties, with the other two located in Louisiana and Alabama.

The analysis indicates that the IRS targets certain geographic regions more than others because the residents of certain regions are more likely to use the EITC, such as the South, where residents tend to be poorer than in the Northeast.

....

But the audit rates for people who claim the EITC hasn't fallen as sharply as for the rich and corporations, ProPublica reported in December. That means a typical EITC claimant, who earns less than $20,000 per year, is more likely to face an audit than a millionaire.

....

Because of spending IRS spending cuts, audit rates for millionaires have declined by half since 2010. Corporate audits are also on the wane.
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Old 12th February 2020, 01:25 PM   #151
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Can we all agree that we ought to at least stop with the 2+ years of campaigning? Would any of you have predicted that Pete and Amy* would be in the lead after New Hampshire and Iowa?

*I think most of us would at least have guessed Bernie would be in the top two or three. Also, from now on, I'm going to strictly use first names because I can't spell Pete or Amy's last names. Also, my wife has a couple of good friends named Pete and Amy who just had a kid together.
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Old 12th February 2020, 06:22 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You know who else is using a multi-pronged approach? Zip Recruiter. I'm serious, they are the best. I found my ideal candidate using Zip Recruiter in only a couple of days, whereas my last search with those other websites took months and we had to fire the guy eventually.
I could be wrong, but after you have saturated the airwaves and the interwebs with your name and brand, does even more spending improve your chances?

I can't rule it out, and of course companies like the above spend a lot of money promoting themselves because it works, and it may be that being told over and over again who to vote for might end up being the most effective strategy.

That said, it seems a bit like that would put me off after a while. I would get sick of the saturation coverage.
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Old 12th February 2020, 06:50 PM   #153
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Zip Recruiter? Are they the ones with the groundhog?
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:24 PM   #154
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Trump has set the precedent that you never stop campaigning.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:45 AM   #155
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Protester interrupts Bloomberg event in Chattanooga, takes the stage and proclaims:

Quote:
That is not democracy. That is plutocracy.
https://twitter.com/chactivist/statu...12157279834112

Get his ass!
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:52 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Running in the GOP primary will hurt Trump in the general.
How?
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:13 AM   #157
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For all this talk about "Bernie or Bust" folks and "vote blue no matter who", Bloomberg is the one candidate I see with the most potential for fracturing the party and handing Trump another win.

It's no secret that the most strident Bernie supporters don't have warm feelings for centrists like Pete or Klobuchar, but that doesn't even compare to the utter contempt that the left wing of the party has for Bloomberg, the plutocrat candidate. Bernie is popular because he refuses to take big money donations and relies on the support of the common people. Bloomberg is the polar opposite, a billionaire using his own wealth to buy his way into the race. Bloomberg, more so than any other candidate, is a repudiation of the left wing's core values.

For all the panic mongering about disloyal Bernie supporters not voting blue, I see Bloomberg as the most likely candidate to actually make it come true. Replacing a kleptocrat multi-millionaire with a plutocratic billionaire may not be sufficient motivation for left-wingers to turn out in high numbers.
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:33 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Bernie is popular because he refuses to take big money donations and relies on the support of the common people. Bloomberg is the polar opposite, a billionaire using his own wealth to buy his way into the race.
Or you could say that Bernie is spending the money of other people, who are all poorer than him, to fund his campaign, while Bloomberg is putting his own money where his mouth is and remaining free of anyone having a financial influence over his campaign.
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:39 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Or you could say that Bernie is spending the money of other people, who are all poorer than him, to fund his campaign, while Bloomberg is putting his own money where his mouth is and remaining free of anyone having a financial influence over his campaign.
How kind of Bloomberg to relieve the common people of the burdensome duty of being involved in the political process.

He is a kind and generous master.
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:41 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
How kind of Bloomberg to relieve the common people of the burdensome duty of being involved in the political process.

He is a kind and generous master.
I guess you prefer to let Politicians spend your money to get themselves elected?
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