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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:37 AM   #521
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
No, it is in the same class.
No.

Rhinovirii and coronavirii are in the same Phylum, not the same Order, Family or Genus.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:47 AM   #522
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


You don't know what you are talking about. Unless you are also saying any pathogen that kills a total of more than ~800 is worse than SARS.
Like influenza or measles.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 09:05 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Yes.

There were several ingredients that became prohibited from use in over the counter hand sanitizers a few years ago though. The FDA did a data review and found a lack of evidence that they were safe and/or effective.

Quote:
Antibacterial hand and body wash manufacturers did not provide the necessary data to establish safety and effectiveness for the 19 active ingredients addressed in this final rulemaking.

These are the non-alcohol products. 60% alcohol or more is still good.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 09:38 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Yes.
DBPC proof of efficacy for viruses ? I don't think so.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:06 AM   #525
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Are we still downplaying this or is it OK to be concerned now?

I can tell you in hawaii we are ******** twinkies

The dumbest state in the union, with an extreme anti-science, anti-vax and massive fake alterna scam "traditional" 'medicine" and we are having piles of Chinese rerouted here.

What could go wrong?

Hey its ok, we have a quarantine center here for the 2 or 3 of them dumb enough not to reroute their flights
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:33 AM   #526
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I posted this in the Conspiracy Theory thread, but it's worth repeating here.

There was a paper uploaded to bioRxiv prior to peer review, which claimed that the novel coronavirus had genetic sequences from HIV and implied that it had been deliberately created as a bioweapon. It's since been withdrawn, but Forbes has an article about it.

Quote:
The work, by a group based in India, was entitled ďUncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag.Ē

ďBased on analysis of multiple, very short regions of proteins in the novel coronavirus, the bioRxiv paper claimed that the new coronavirus may have acquired these regions from HIV,Ē said Arinjay Banerjee, PhD, a postdoctoral fellow in virology at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada who has extensively studied coronaviruses.

However, the authors then speculated that this might not be a coincidence and perhaps the bits of genetic code were put there intentionally. The conspiracy theory was addressed today by a scientist from the Wuhan Institute of Virology at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, who rubbished the claims.

Essentially, the scientists found that yes, there are some additions in the nCoV coronavirus originating in Wuhan that other coronaviruses donít have, which are similar to pieces of sequence found in HIV. But, the kicker here is that these pieces of genetic code are also found in countless other viruses and thereís no reason to believe they specifically came from HIV, at all.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 12:04 PM   #527
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
I posted this in the Conspiracy Theory thread, but it's worth repeating here.

There was a paper uploaded to bioRxiv prior to peer review, which claimed that the novel coronavirus had genetic sequences from HIV and implied that it had been deliberately created as a bioweapon. It's since been withdrawn, but Forbes has an article about it.
Dreadful nonsense. The coronavirus is a picornavirus. This type of virus is extremely small in size (hence the word, 'pico':

Quote:
Picornavirus is an icosahedral, nonenveloped, small (22 to 30 nm) particle 1). The term picornavirus is derived from pico, which means small (typically, 18-30 nm), and RNA, referring to the single-stranded positive-sense RNA common to all members of the picornaviruses family 2).
https://healthjade.net/picornavirus/

The HIV virus is a retrovirus (imagine a DNA helix back to front, hence 'retro') it acts as a mirror to bodily cells and replicates that way.

Quote:
Any of a group of RNA viruses whose RNA is used as a template inside a host cell for the formation of DNA by means of the enzyme reverse transcriptase. The DNA thus formed is inserted into the host cell's genome. Most retroviruses can cause cancer. Retroviruses also include HIV.
https://www.yourdictionary.com/retrovirus

There is no way a picornavirus can interact with a retrovirus or originate or mutate from one.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg picornavirus.jpg (99.4 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg A5retrovirus.jpg (31.4 KB, 6 views)
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Old 3rd February 2020, 12:08 PM   #528
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Are we still downplaying this or is it OK to be concerned now?
Jury is firmly out on that question.

There are several things to think about, because either maths stopped working, or there's are pieces of the puzzle we don't yet know.

Things we don't know:

How many people are really infected.
Is secondary/tertiary virulence reduced?
What happens when the Hubei quarantine is lifted?
Why have we seen so few cases outside China, and more particularly, the contained regions, despite the unrestricted travel early in the outbreak?

One other point I'm wondering is if, given the evidence that the foecal/oral route is a viable method of transmission, whether contaminated water may be behind the huge number of infections in somewhat confined regions.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:04 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
There is no way a picornavirus can interact with a retrovirus or originate or mutate from one.
That's the entire point of the conspiracy: that to get a DNA sequence from HIV into 2019-ncov, you'd have to artificially engineer it. The reason it's wrong isn't because picornaviruses can't interact with retroviruses, but because the similarities are likely coincidental. Of the 4 "matched" sequences, 2 are found in other coronaviruses, one of the other matches is so short it's meaningless, and one of the matches isn't even that close a match.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 02:55 PM   #530
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
7-8% fatality of hospitalized patients- how does that compare to flu? or other viral pneumonias?

I've got an idea-Want to avoid diseases that are the bane of all man kind? Stay out of China.
That's a meaningless number.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 03:00 PM   #531
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
There were several ingredients that became prohibited from use in over the counter hand sanitizers a few years ago though. The FDA did a data review and found a lack of evidence that they were safe and/or effective.

These are the non-alcohol products. 60% alcohol or more is still good.
That article is about antibacterial soap, not waterless hand sanitizers.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 03:18 PM   #532
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I had a plumber round my house today, and he insisted that the truth is being covered up and in reality thousands of people have already died in China. He told me people were dropping dead in the streets and there are videos of this on social media.

I didn't believe a word of it, but it is a sign of how panic spreads.
Exactly.
I doubt even the Chinese Government...who I don't have much trust in....could cover something like that in an age when every smart phone has a camera built in...
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Old 3rd February 2020, 03:37 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
7-8% fatality of hospitalized patients- how does that compare to flu? or other viral pneumonias?

I've got an idea-Want to avoid diseases that are the bane of all man kind? Stay out of China.
Really a difficult number to extract any useful information from. The severity of a disease that will buy you admission into a hospital varies greatly with the individual hospital, insurance/wealth/influence of the infected, traditions of the community with regardto caring for the ill, size of the epidemic. etc. From what I read today the hospitals in China are so overwhelmed that many seriously infected individuals are being sent home, even knowing some will die, because there are not enough beds and equipment. A very severe form of triage. Quarantines have also made it harder for some people to reach hospitals.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 03:43 PM   #534
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Honestly I am ever more convinced that social media and the internet has made people stupider. Much stupider. Any rumor, no matter how clearly untrue, rapidly circulates among millions of uninformed and nervous people, turning them into mis-informed and deeply frightened people. And there are evil selfish people who provoke these rumors intentionally either for "fun" or profit (political or economic).

Pre-print web sites such as bioRxiv are considered by many scientists as valuable ways of sharing their results prior to more formal methods of publishing research results. But here too is a means of incredibly rapidly disseminating incorrect, and potentially dangerous information. These pre-prints are not peer reviewed or screened for accuracy, but are only quickly scanned to ensure they are on a biological topic, not libelous, etc. Unfortunate in this case.

"What a wonderful world..."


FYI: I once was a virologist and I know the level of stupid in many of these rumors.

Last edited by Giordano; 3rd February 2020 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 04:55 PM   #535
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Just saw the news that the Snohomish county man, the first case of novel coronavirus in the US, has been released from the hospital. That's some good news.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 04:59 PM   #536
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Dreadful nonsense. The coronavirus is a picornavirus. This type of virus is extremely small in size (hence the word, 'pico':

https://healthjade.net/picornavirus/

The HIV virus is a retrovirus (imagine a DNA helix back to front, hence 'retro') it acts as a mirror to bodily cells and replicates that way.

https://www.yourdictionary.com/retrovirus

There is no way a picornavirus can interact with a retrovirus or originate or mutate from one.
Vixen, your grasp of genetics is poor, you should avoid commenting on technical issues.

Coronaviruses are NOT Picornaviruses. Corona viruses are so called because of the crown like appearance of their capsule. They are large RNA viruses (positive single stranded RNA genome). Picornaviruses have capsules with an icosahedral structure, and are small RNA single stranded viruses. Retroviruses are a third group of RNA containing viruses. Retroviruses are defined by possessing a reverse transcriptase. Whilst most RNA viruses directly replicate RNA to RNA, and translate RNA to protein, retroviruses transcribe their RNA into DNA which can integrate into the host genome then hijack cellular processes to synthesise proteins and replicate themselves. (Aproximately 10% of DNA in our chromosomes originates from genes left behind by retroviruses, although much is nonsense some viruses have left genes that are now essential to life, in reality we are chimeras part animal (eukaryote), part virus, part bacteria.)

If there are simultaneous infections by two different viruses within one cell it is possible for viruses to integrate RNA from different viruses. In fact DNA viruses can even pick up bacterial and eukaryotic DNA and carry genes between species.

Last edited by Planigale; 3rd February 2020 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 05:09 PM   #537
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Honestly I am ever more convinced that social media and the internet has made people stupider. Much stupider. Any rumor, no matter how clearly untrue, rapidly circulates among millions of uninformed and nervous people, turning them into mis-informed and deeply frightened people. And there are evil selfish people who provoke these rumors intentionally either for "fun" or profit (political or economic).

Pre-print web sites such as bioRxiv are considered by many scientists as valuable ways of sharing their results prior to more formal methods of publishing research results. But here too is a means of incredibly rapidly disseminating incorrect, and potentially dangerous information. These pre-prints are not peer reviewed or screened for accuracy, but are only quickly scanned to ensure they are on a biological topic, not libelous, etc. Unfortunate in this case.

"What a wonderful world..."


FYI: I once was a virologist and I know the level of stupid in many of these rumors.
Sad to say, the Jude Law character in "Contagion" has a lot of real world counterparts.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 05:10 PM   #538
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Dreadful nonsense. The coronavirus is a picornavirus. This type of virus is extremely small in size (hence the word, 'pico':

https://healthjade.net/picornavirus/

The HIV virus is a retrovirus (imagine a DNA helix back to front, hence 'retro') it acts as a mirror to bodily cells and replicates that way.

https://www.yourdictionary.com/retrovirus

There is no way a picornavirus can interact with a retrovirus or originate or mutate from one.


You can make pseudotyped virus in the lab using HIV core with the envelope of choice, in this case the Spike protein of nCOV 2019.


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Old 3rd February 2020, 05:14 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I had a plumber round my house today, and he insisted that the truth is being covered up and in reality thousands of people have already died in China. He told me people were dropping dead in the streets and there are videos of this on social media.

I didn't believe a word of it, but it is a sign of how panic spreads.
Video of people falling over in the streets has been making the rounds. I've seen it. The video in question only shows a few people, it's not even clear when or where the different clips were taken, and there's no indication that they're dead rather than passed out.

It's an almost certainty that the number of deaths are being understated, and there are multiple stories of people saying that their relative died of coronavirus but the death certificate just says pneumonia. But it's not at all clear how understated the numbers are. I wouldn't bet it's in the thousands, but I wouldn't guarantee it's not either. That's the problem with China: you just don't know.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 05:24 PM   #540
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Originally Posted by Capsid View Post
You can make pseudotyped virus in the lab using HIV core with the envelope of choice, in this case the Spike protein of nCOV 2019.


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One can do absolutely amazing things in a lab now. But just to reassure the non-virologists on the Forum, the sequence of nCOV 2019 is not at all what one would see if it was pseudotyped HIV with an nCOV-2019 envelope spike protein. Also pseudotyped viruses can only replicate as pseudotypes once, in the very next host cell to which they are exposed. Pseudotype virus are made in cells that separately produce the different viral components, which then come together as the virus is assembled. Pseudotyped virus cannot continue an infection and create an epidemic as a pseudotype. One needs recombinants (viruses with mixed genomes) to do that.

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Old 3rd February 2020, 05:58 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Dreadful nonsense. The coronavirus is a picornavirus. This type of virus is extremely small in size (hence the word, 'pico':

https://healthjade.net/picornavirus/

The HIV virus is a retrovirus (imagine a DNA helix back to front, hence 'retro') it acts as a mirror to bodily cells and replicates that way.

https://www.yourdictionary.com/retrovirus

There is no way a picornavirus can interact with a retrovirus or originate or mutate from one.
No, coronaviruses are not picornaviruses in any way, manner, or form. Or vis-versa. Think of it as humans and birds both fit under the very broad category vertebrates, but humans are not birds and birds are not humans.

Most viruses are pretty damn small, and this is not why picornaviruses are called what they are. The name came from them having a small RNA genome, but this is not the only criterion that is used to define what are picornaviruses and what are not. Coronaviruses do not fit these criteria. In fact coronavirus and picornaviruses are far, far more different from one another than are humans and birds.

You know you can look this stuff up online before posting...
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Old 3rd February 2020, 06:43 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Just saw the news that the Snohomish county man, the first case of novel coronavirus in the US, has been released from the hospital. That's some good news.
Omigod, I used to live there! And there was an Asian lady at the gym this morning!! I'm probably infected!!! I'm gonna DIIIIIE!!!!

Eventually. Seriously, that's about how much of the news about this sounds.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 06:45 PM   #543
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Video of people falling over in the streets has been making the rounds. I've seen it. The video in question only shows a few people, it's not even clear when or where the different clips were taken, and there's no indication that they're dead rather than passed out.

It's an almost certainty that the number of deaths are being understated, and there are multiple stories of people saying that their relative died of coronavirus but the death certificate just says pneumonia. But it's not at all clear how understated the numbers are. I wouldn't bet it's in the thousands, but I wouldn't guarantee it's not either. That's the problem with China: you just don't know.

Not even any indication if the coronavirus is reponsble for the people falling down.
But,yeah, the Chinese Government is not a source I would trust very much.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 09:06 PM   #544
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's the problem with China: you just don't know.
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
But,yeah, the Chinese Government is not a source I would trust very much.
Hell yeah, let the xenophobia flow, boys!

I'm pretty sure you are both American, and I'd trust Xi further than I'd trust your human mutation you have as president right now. I ask again, how do you think USA would respond to two states being cut off by armed guards.

If anything, you should be thanking your lucky stars this is happening in China - so far.

"Woo, some people aren't being seen at the hospital!!111!!"
"Woo, there are problems!!11!"

Right now, China has 2788 patients listed as critical.

Then ask yourself how USA, or any other damned country, would handle that in their over-loaded and under-staffed hospital systems. (The sub-question of which ones are insured is hardly even relevant)

They fumbled the ball at the start, but right now, China should be being praised for doing such an amazing job. They are screening people trying to leave the goddamned place. I don't even need to ask you how that would go down in the land of the free and home of the cowards brave.

Criticism of China right now is pure racist baloney.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 09:15 PM   #545
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
...

Right now, China has 2788 patients listed as critical. .
I can't find such a number anywhere.

From CNN today:
Quote:
The health authority said 10,990 patients have been hospitalized in Hubei, including 576 who are in critical condition.
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/c...?ref=hvper.com
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Old 3rd February 2020, 10:32 PM   #546
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Hell yeah, let the xenophobia flow, boys!

I'm pretty sure you are both American, and I'd trust Xi further than I'd trust your human mutation you have as president right now. I ask again, how do you think USA would respond to two states being cut off by armed guards.

If anything, you should be thanking your lucky stars this is happening in China - so far.

"Woo, some people aren't being seen at the hospital!!111!!"
"Woo, there are problems!!11!"

Right now, China has 2788 patients listed as critical.

Then ask yourself how USA, or any other damned country, would handle that in their over-loaded and under-staffed hospital systems. (The sub-question of which ones are insured is hardly even relevant)

They fumbled the ball at the start, but right now, China should be being praised for doing such an amazing job. They are screening people trying to leave the goddamned place. I don't even need to ask you how that would go down in the land of the free and home of the cowards brave.

Criticism of China right now is pure racist baloney.
China is a communist dictatorship. That isnít racist baloney. And I said nothing about whether the quarantine was the right move or not, I said that you canít trust them to tell the truth. That too has nothing to do with race. Itís possible they are taking all the right actions but still lying about the infection numbers. Or maybe they are telling the truth, but how would we know? Because itís a dictatorship, there are no independent sources of reliable information about this.

I wouldnít trust the North Korean government at all, but the South Korean government is fairly honest (and I donít rate my own any higher than that). What separates North Korea from South Korea? Not race, but one being a dictatorship and one being a democracy. If you donít understand how that influences the honesty of a government, then youíre an idiot.

And lastly, your Trump derangement has blinded you to the fact that in a situation like this, the person at the top isnít who matters most. Itís the institutions on the ground and the local politicians that really matter the most. And given that we already know the local Chinese politicians lied, why are you trying to act like China is trustworthy? Again, this has nothing to do with race, though you seem to be incapable of thinking in any different terms.
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Old 4th February 2020, 12:38 AM   #547
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I can't find such a number anywhere.

From CNN today:
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/c...?ref=hvper.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...ses_statistics
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Old 4th February 2020, 12:41 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
...I said that you canít trust them to tell the truth..
When I see you levelling the same criticism at a president who's made 15,000 false or misleading statements in under three years I'll take note of anything you say.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ims-over-days/

I've criticised China on plenty of occasions - especially their appalling human rights record.

Credit where credit's due is often a hard concept for some people to grasp.
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Old 4th February 2020, 01:33 AM   #549
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Just for the record, I'll note that these questions were completely ignored:

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I ask again, how do you think USA would respond to two states being cut off by armed guards.

Then ask yourself how USA, or any other damned country, would handle that in their over-loaded and under-staffed hospital systems. (The sub-question of which ones are insured is hardly even relevant)
Instead of worrying about whom to trust, think about those and get back to me.
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Old 4th February 2020, 02:00 AM   #550
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
When I see you levelling the same criticism at a president who's made 15,000 false or misleading statements in under three years I'll take note of anything you say.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ims-over-days/

I've criticised China on plenty of occasions - especially their appalling human rights record.

Credit where credit's due is often a hard concept for some people to grasp.
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Just for the record, I'll note that these questions were completely ignored:



Instead of worrying about whom to trust, think about those and get back to me.
None of that is really relevant though, is it?

What people in this thread want is information about the coronavirus and to discuss that information. Because the coronavirus is happening in China you necessarily have to wrestle with the question of how trustworthy the information coming from the Chinese government is.

What we donít need to do in this thread is discuss hypotheticals about what Trump would do if the coronavirus had started in the US.
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Old 4th February 2020, 02:14 AM   #551
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This may be of interest:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...v-drugs-2020-2
Quote:
BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thai doctors have seen success in treating severe cases of the new coronavirus with a combination of medications for flu and HIV, with initial results showing vast improvement 48 hours after applying the treatment, they said on Sunday.

The doctors from Rajavithi Hospital in Bangkok said a new approach in coronavirus treatment had improved the condition of several patients under their care, including one 70-year-old Chinese woman from Wuhan who tested positive for the coronavirus for 10 days.
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Old 4th February 2020, 02:16 AM   #552
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By the way, I don't think I mentioned the latest news I have from here, which is that we've been told to stay closed until Feb 29. I think this applies to schools as well.

Went out for a walk today. Still very quiet in the streets.
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Old 4th February 2020, 02:18 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
What people in this thread want is information about the coronavirus and to discuss that information. Because the coronavirus is happening in China you necessarily have to wrestle with the question of how trustworthy the information coming from the Chinese government is.
I disagree and pretty well every criticism and CT is just racism wrapped in a thin veneer of "what ifs".

Given the very small number of cases they're exporting, we can say with certainty they're doing something right.

What's not to trust?

When WHO and other non-partisan organisations are comfortable with where China's at, it seems incumbent to trust them at least that far.

The question of how other countries would handle it has nothing to do with Trump - it's merely coincidental that he's president. I just find it amusing that Xi isn't trustworthy while a total lying piece of **** sits in the White House. Clean your own back yard first I say.

More importantly, I don't believe the US - or any other country - would have been able to deal with this outbreak as China has. No hospital system is designed to cope with the workload they're getting and I can't think of another country that would be able to ship in two entire hospitals in a fortnight. You'll certainly see what I mean if the outbreak isn't contained - my earlier estimate of 3,000,000 dead will be well short.

China's response has been a massive and superb logistical exercise and should be being praised, not knocked by clowns with an agenda.
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Old 4th February 2020, 02:21 AM   #554
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
By the way, I don't think I mentioned the latest news I have from here, which is that we've been told to stay closed until Feb 29. I think this applies to schools as well.

Went out for a walk today. Still very quiet in the streets.
At least you're in China.

In NZ, some 10,000 km from the outbreak, in a country with zero cases of coronavirus, when I went to the pharmacist today to buy some electrolytes, all of the staff were wearing face masks. Nowhere near any tourist haunts, I might add.

Feb 29 is a long way off, but the last couple of days have shown a levelling of the logarithmic growth, so there are positive signs.
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Old 4th February 2020, 02:26 AM   #555
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Feb 29 is a long way off, but the last couple of days have shown a levelling of the logarithmic growth, so there are positive signs.
Yeah, it seems to have slowed down for the past week as far as I can tell, but hard to say what will happen over the next couple of weeks. I'm optimistic that quarantines and behavior changes (everyone staying home, for instance) are slowing it down. But it's a little too early to tell right now.
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Old 4th February 2020, 02:30 AM   #556
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
But it's a little too early to tell right now.
True that.

Then you factor in complete unknowns like whether the virus will mutate, which we won't know until it happens!

Interesting times.

Thanks for the first-hand descriptions of what's going on.
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Old 4th February 2020, 05:39 AM   #557
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
When I see you levelling the same criticism at a president who's made 15,000 false or misleading statements in under three years I'll take note of anything you say.
You shouldnít need me to tell you that you canít trust the CCP. Everything about Trump is off topic and irrelevant to that.

Quote:
I've criticised China on plenty of occasions - especially their appalling human rights record.
They will commit all sorts of abuses, but they wonít lie? Thatís somehow a bridge too far for them?

Can you even hear yourself?

Quote:
Credit where credit's due is often a hard concept for some people to grasp.
As I already said, Iím not criticizing their quarantine efforts.
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Old 4th February 2020, 05:49 AM   #558
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I disagree and pretty well every criticism and CT is just racism wrapped in a thin veneer of "what ifs".
So when Chinese citizens complain that their own government isnít telling the truth, theyíre being racist? Thatís a galaxy brain take.

Quote:
Given the very small number of cases they're exporting, we can say with certainty they're doing something right.
Maybe, but that doesnít mean they are telling the truth about the numbers. These are two different things.

Quote:
What's not to trust?
Dictators, thatís what.

Look, the CCP does have an interest in not exporting the disease. So itís not unreasonable to think they will try to prevent that, which is good. But they also have an interest in under-reporting the numbers. Why on earth do you think they wouldnít? And what the hell does that have to do with race?

Quote:
The question of how other countries would handle it has nothing to do with Trump - it's merely coincidental that he's president. I just find it amusing that Xi isn't trustworthy while a total lying piece of **** sits in the White House. Clean your own back yard first I say.
Nothing anyone here has said depends in any way on Trump being trustworthy.

Quote:
More importantly, I don't believe the US - or any other country - would have been able to deal with this outbreak as China has.
We could take this as a given and it still wouldnít mean the numbers China is giving out are honest.

Quote:
China's response has been a massive and superb logistical exercise and should be being praised, not knocked by clowns with an agenda.
Once again, I never once criticized Chinaís efforts at containment.
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Old 4th February 2020, 06:04 AM   #559
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Vixen, your grasp of genetics is poor, you should avoid commenting on technical issues.

Coronaviruses are NOT Picornaviruses. Corona viruses are so called because of the crown like appearance of their capsule. They are large RNA viruses (positive single stranded RNA genome). Picornaviruses have capsules with an icosahedral structure, and are small RNA single stranded viruses. Retroviruses are a third group of RNA containing viruses. Retroviruses are defined by possessing a reverse transcriptase. Whilst most RNA viruses directly replicate RNA to RNA, and translate RNA to protein, retroviruses transcribe their RNA into DNA which can integrate into the host genome then hijack cellular processes to synthesise proteins and replicate themselves. (Aproximately 10% of DNA in our chromosomes originates from genes left behind by retroviruses, although much is nonsense some viruses have left genes that are now essential to life, in reality we are chimeras part animal (eukaryote), part virus, part bacteria.)

If there are simultaneous infections by two different viruses within one cell it is possible for viruses to integrate RNA from different viruses. In fact DNA viruses can even pick up bacterial and eukaryotic DNA and carry genes between species.
Coronavirus is a picornavirus like.
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Old 4th February 2020, 06:08 AM   #560
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
No, coronaviruses are not picornaviruses in any way, manner, or form. Or vis-versa. Think of it as humans and birds both fit under the very broad category vertebrates, but humans are not birds and birds are not humans.

Most viruses are pretty damn small, and this is not why picornaviruses are called what they are. The name came from them having a small RNA genome, but this is not the only criterion that is used to define what are picornaviruses and what are not. Coronaviruses do not fit these criteria. In fact coronavirus and picornaviruses are far, far more different from one another than are humans and birds.

You know you can look this stuff up online before posting...
Perhaps you are the one that is ignorant and should look up stuff. Coronavirus is picornavirus like. Picornavruses are named thus because they are small. Try not to be rude in future.
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