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Tags Coronavirus , diseases

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Old 16th February 2020, 01:07 AM   #1121
Roboramma
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They put a cup of toothpicks and a sponge stuck to the wall of the elevator in my building now. So you can use a toothpick to push the button then stick it into the sponge when you are done (so no one will take the same toothpick that you used).

Don't know if it's related to anything, but my VPN stopped working two days ago. This happens from time to time.
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Old 16th February 2020, 01:21 AM   #1122
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How do you take a toothpick from the cup without accidentally touching the other toothpicks?
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Old 16th February 2020, 01:33 AM   #1123
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Surgical gloves! (now is the time to buy shares in the company that makes them!)
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Old 16th February 2020, 01:35 AM   #1124
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
How do you take a toothpick from the cup without accidentally touching the other toothpicks?
Maybe the cup is for the used ones? No one told me how to use it. I just pushed the button with my finger anyway...
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Old 16th February 2020, 02:53 AM   #1125
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I went to see my GP last week. There was a sign on the door saying that if anyone with a virus has returned from travel to China recently they were not to enter the surgery but to run a specified phone number and wait outside.
Same over here.
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Old 16th February 2020, 03:25 AM   #1126
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Coronavirus: Couple quarantined on cruise ship criticise UK government

Quote:
A British couple quarantined on a cruise liner off the Japanese port of Yokohama have accused the UK government of ignoring their pleas for help.
Quote:
Mr Abel, who describes himself as a "staunch Tory", said he had "no confidence" in Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

Speaking during a Facebook live video with his wife, Sally, he said: "When he [Johnson] just says 'keep calm, don't panic' - I'd like to see you in this situation, mate. I really would."
Quote:
Mr Abel, who has become an unlikely celebrity as a result of his videos, went on to appeal to billionaire Richard Branson for help.
"So, Richard Branson, I want to ask you a question, pal," he said in a video posted on Valentine's Day.
"If you and your family were in this situation, what would you do? And please don't say 'chill out, stay calm', that's not what we want to hear.
"I'm asking, what would it cost to hire one of your smaller planes, put all the Brits on board, no flight attendants, packaged food?
"Take us to Brize Norton, take us straight into the medical facility and let us do our quarantine there by people who can speak our language."
Mr Abel added that his appeal was a reflection of "just how desperate some of the passengers are becoming".
Quote:
He and his wife have previously said they have been given the option to leave and continue their quarantine ashore if they test negative for the virus, but have chosen to remain on board.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51519687
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Old 16th February 2020, 03:36 AM   #1127
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Source?

Watch these guys when you see them. Do they contaminate those gloves while they wear them for hours on end? Do they wash their hands by wetting them and drying them off? Do they put the gloves on without contaminating them?
BBC News.
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Old 16th February 2020, 03:37 AM   #1128
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Fever, cough and shortness of breath (dyspnea) are the classic symptoms. You have to be careful interpreting this stuff with an anal-retentive attitude.

Clinical Characteristics of 138 Hospitalized Patients With 2019 Novel Coronavirus–Infected Pneumonia in Wuhan, ChinaThe highlighted is especially important for people who have been exposed to know.
Er, I thought you disputed this when I said it?
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Old 16th February 2020, 03:43 AM   #1129
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
As in most people just croaked and no symptoms? Or most were so mild that they never suspected corona virus and ended up OK?
Problem is, this year's 'flu srain wasn't expected to peak until early spring (around about now and March) and thus vaccinations were delayed until November. It is quite possible people who died were thought to have just had normal 'flu that turned rogue.
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Old 16th February 2020, 03:47 AM   #1130
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Coronavirus: Couple quarantined on cruise ship criticise UK government









https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51519687
Brexiteers strike again.
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Old 16th February 2020, 11:42 AM   #1131
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Roborama, we're pretty worried here, especially after our Mayor underling of the missile button governor told everyone to go to the crowded open markets as there is no corona virus danger in those situations

But you must be freaking out, I feel so bad for you guys
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Old 16th February 2020, 01:15 PM   #1132
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
BBC News.
A lot of sources including the CDC (or maybe they got it from them) are only listing those three symptoms because they are the most common presentation. But the CDC has a paragraph preceding the list that includes this:
Quote:
... reported illnesses have ranged from mild symptoms to severe illness and death. Symptoms can include:
People in this thread should be careful about declaring things as absolutes. Which is what I meant by this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Er, I thought you disputed this when I said it?
"You have to be careful interpreting this stuff..."
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Old 16th February 2020, 01:21 PM   #1133
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Roborama, we're pretty worried here, especially after our Mayor underling of the missile button governor told everyone to go to the crowded open markets as there is no corona virus danger in those situations

But you must be freaking out, I feel so bad for you guys
I keep trying to guess what crowded island you live on. I was thinking about Taiwan, but the clues don't fit. Who has missiles? That narrows it down but also eliminates all the places I was thinking of.

I worry about a lot of people in this forum.
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Old 16th February 2020, 03:19 PM   #1134
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Oahu. If you didnt hear about our governor's missile button failure, I'm sure there are still a bunch of hillarious memes, reddit and youtube things on it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JHgm3s49Wk
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Old 16th February 2020, 03:20 PM   #1135
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I'm still trying to get my head around the maths here.

For example - the rate of serious infection and deaths in China has stayed stable over the past several days and the rate is currently 18.8% of all cases being classed as severe, or where the patient has died.

Outside China, that rate is 3.75%, and now there are 800 cases outside China we can give the numbers some weight. We also know huge numbers have tested negative and that leads are being followed, so the reported numbers in developed nations will be pretty close to reality.

It's apparent that there are many more mild cases than severe cases and I'd be amazed if the same weren't true in China. A lot of people won't be sick enough to see a doctor, far less be tested, plus China has admitted to a shortage of tests.

Using the same 3.75% rate would give China a total case load of 345,000, which seems to be a lot more like reality.

At that level, the death rate would be 0.5%, which is certainly about where most people think it will end up. That number of cases and death rate also works well with most of the dead being elderly and/or sick, as in a 'flu outbreak. I see the Taiwanese bloke who died had diabetes and Hep C, so he was a prime candidate. Also, as he presumable caught it from Chinese visitors, it will turn out that others have it as well, so even 0.5% may be overshooting.

Still, as I've noted, if it does go around the world, that kind of death rate will lead to millions of deaths and extreme pressure on health services.
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Old 16th February 2020, 03:26 PM   #1136
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Oahu. If you didnt hear about our governor's missile button failure, I'm sure there are still a bunch of hillarious memes, reddit and youtube things on it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JHgm3s49Wk
I didn't know Oahu was that crowded. That missile alert mistake was frightening.

It's certainly a place at risk given all the ties to China.


Edited to add: My cousin lives on Oahu.
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Old 16th February 2020, 04:04 PM   #1137
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US passengers from the cruise ship on their way home minus 40 infected. Number of cases on the ship > 300 >350. Clearly there is ongoing transmission of the virus. Those on the ship were essentially sitting ducks.

I don't understand how the cruise line company was that stupid to not recognize the risk to and from the crew. This is the modern world, people are supposed to understand the germ theory.

One UK citizen is complaining loudly that he's been left behind by his country.


Edited to correct cruise ship case numbers.
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Old 16th February 2020, 04:33 PM   #1138
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is the modern world, people are supposed to understand the germ theory.
Even inside the medical industry it's not completely understood, so why would a cruise line be expected to recognise a novel threat?
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Old 16th February 2020, 04:47 PM   #1139
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Home or home to a quarantine?
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Old 16th February 2020, 04:56 PM   #1140
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Home or home to a quarantine?
Home to quarantine for 14 more days as they should be.

But it must be a relief to not think you are at continual risk.
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Old 16th February 2020, 04:57 PM   #1141
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Even inside the medical industry it's not completely understood, so why would a cruise line be expected to recognise a novel threat?
Oh yeah, I have some stories.
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Old 16th February 2020, 05:27 PM   #1142
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Home to quarantine for 14 more days as they should be.

But it must be a relief to not think you are at continual risk.
I was thinking some meathead said "oh they must be fine, lets drop em off in waikiki to go cruising around"
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Old 16th February 2020, 06:28 PM   #1143
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14 days might be enough. Also it might be not. In any case, it's 14 days after any contact with other possibly infected people. On the ship, everybody is basically on day 1 even today.
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Old 16th February 2020, 06:53 PM   #1144
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There is talk of the 2020 Tokyo Olympics being cancelled.

This would be the second time the Tokyo Olympics has been cancelled, as the same happened to the 1940 Tokyo Olympics for some reason.
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Old 16th February 2020, 06:55 PM   #1145
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
US passengers from the cruise ship on their way home minus 40 infected. Number of cases on the ship > 300 >350. Clearly there is ongoing transmission of the virus. Those on the ship were essentially sitting ducks.

I don't understand how the cruise line company was that stupid to not recognize the risk to and from the crew. This is the modern world, people are supposed to understand the germ theory.

One UK citizen is complaining loudly that he's been left behind by his country.


Edited to correct cruise ship case numbers.
Done right: quarantine

Done wrong: incubator
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Old 16th February 2020, 07:03 PM   #1146
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
There is talk of the 2020 Tokyo Olympics being cancelled.
Where?

Organisers

IOC

WHO

There's talk the earth is flat, too.
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Old 16th February 2020, 07:04 PM   #1147
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
US passengers from the cruise ship on their way home minus 40 infected. Number of cases on the ship > 300 >350. Clearly there is ongoing transmission of the virus. Those on the ship were essentially sitting ducks.

I don't understand how the cruise line company was that stupid to not recognize the risk to and from the crew. This is the modern world, people are supposed to understand the germ theory.

One UK citizen is complaining loudly that he's been left behind by his country.


Edited to correct cruise ship case numbers.
I don't know if there is ongoing transmission. It could be because many of those being found are in early stages of the virus and are asymptomatic.

But, it seems that testing of the passengers is really slow.

Earlier on in this saga, the passengers had been complaining that the cruise line company had not been clear to them about what was happening on the ship.

The quarantine could have been too late.

I said before that the cruise line company has been doing a lot of PR to tell everyone that they would be refunded not just in full, but on top of the refunds, and also all costs for repatriation. It is my suspicion that they are trying to avoid being sued by offering some kind of pre-emptive compensation. Not sure how it works legally, though.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 16th February 2020, 07:13 PM   #1148
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Where?

Organisers

IOC

WHO

There's talk the earth is flat, too.
Thing is, situation in Japan is deteriorating quickly.

Check this: https://japantoday.com/category/nati...minister-warns

"Avoid crowds and non-essential gatherings" .. seems like bad advice during Olympics.
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Old 16th February 2020, 07:32 PM   #1149
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Where?

Organisers

IOC

WHO

There's talk the earth is flat, too.
Nobody official is saying it, but there was discussion on the TV news and talking head programmes here about whether or not the Tokyo Olympics will go ahead. This was in the context of the upcoming Tokyo marathon (March 1st).
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 16th February 2020, 07:56 PM   #1150
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Thing is, situation in Japan is deteriorating quickly.

Check this: https://japantoday.com/category/nati...minister-warns

"Avoid crowds and non-essential gatherings" .. seems like bad advice during Olympics.
Six months away, the other end of summer, when you'd expect a viral outbreak would fall away, so I don't think there's any question yet.

A major outbreak in Japan and it might be a different story.
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Old 16th February 2020, 08:22 PM   #1151
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I don't know if there is ongoing transmission. It could be because many of those being found are in early stages of the virus and are asymptomatic.

But, it seems that testing of the passengers is really slow.

Earlier on in this saga, the passengers had been complaining that the cruise line company had not been clear to them about what was happening on the ship.

The quarantine could have been too late.

I said before that the cruise line company has been doing a lot of PR to tell everyone that they would be refunded not just in full, but on top of the refunds, and also all costs for repatriation. It is my suspicion that they are trying to avoid being sued by offering some kind of pre-emptive compensation. Not sure how it works legally, though.
Dis you miss this?
Quote:
Down below, more than 1,000 crew members live and work elbow-to-elbow, preparing the passengers’ dishes and eating simple buffet-style meals together, with as many as four sharing a bathroom — and sharing the risk of possible infection from the coronavirus....

And according to employees, the infected crew members identified on Sunday had been eating in the mess hall alongside their co-workers.

It is not even clear how many people on the ship have the coronavirus because the authorities in Japan have only tested a fraction of all aboard, asserting they currently lack the resources to test them all.
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Old 16th February 2020, 08:45 PM   #1152
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It's why I keep complaining the maths looks broken. Given the delay in symptoms after infections, and being infectious while asymptomatic, the numbers just don't add up. I have to wonder about the foecal/oral route of transmission.

If it is that, look out when it busts out in India!



It's really starting to bite here, and no doubt everywhere that's happy to take the renminbi until someone gets sick. Our tourism industry body reckons it will cost at least $500M.

The supply chain is now starting to falter, and the economic fallout will go on for some time, and it'll spread, just like the virus itself.



Fascinating and enlightening discussion, but aren't we on Covid-19 here?
What I worry about is the raw ingredients for many drugs are made in China, and we may start seeing shortages of pharmaceuticals especially antibiotics if China is more widely affected.

A radio piece I heard (NPR or BBC World News) a few days ago offered concern about seemingly more mundane shortages.

Surgical masks.

Half of the surgical masks in the world are made in China, and that supply may be interrupted if only from panic buying in China. The remainder may suffer the same fate elsewhere.

They interviewed a manufacturer of masks in Texas who foresaw the possibility that elective surgeries could be delayed in the U.S. if the supply of masks was too limited. He wasn't just talking through his hat. He had been making masks when the SARS outbreak happened. His company tried to open more manufacturing capacity to meet the demand, but then as soon as the panic passed all of that investment became superfluous, and they nearly went bankrupt.

It isn't likely many manufacturers would repeat such a mistake.
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Old 16th February 2020, 11:58 PM   #1153
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No deaths on a cruise ship yet?
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Old 17th February 2020, 02:02 AM   #1154
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
No deaths on a cruise ship yet?
No, because they get removed before they die.

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Old 17th February 2020, 02:14 AM   #1155
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Dis you miss this?
At this point, it wouldn’t surprise me if almost everyone on that cruise ship ends up testing positive.
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Old 17th February 2020, 02:52 AM   #1156
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
US passengers from the cruise ship on their way home minus 40 infected. Number of cases on the ship > 300 >350. Clearly there is ongoing transmission of the virus. Those on the ship were essentially sitting ducks.



I don't understand how the cruise line company was that stupid to not recognize the risk to and from the crew. This is the modern world, people are supposed to understand the germ theory.



One UK citizen is complaining loudly that he's been left behind by his country.





Edited to correct cruise ship case numbers.
I would say because for the conformable class the lives of the people who do their work are rarely of concern and never in the forefront of their minds. Not one of the reports I read until recently mentioned any crew, it was all about passengers being put out.
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Old 17th February 2020, 02:56 AM   #1157
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Your post is a huge lie
It is not, as I do not lie.

Quote:
I do note that you've been in thread from the entire period I took these from:
Perhaps the problem is in your reading comprehension. I didn't say that every post you made was calling for doomsday scenarios. I said that it's the only possibly that seems to have gotten you excited. Now I may be wrong about that, though I am not, but it's not a lie to say so.
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Old 17th February 2020, 03:08 AM   #1158
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Belz, personally I didn't read his posts in the way. And it's a pretty serious accusation to say someone is taking pleasure in the idea of millions of people dying, so I think you should be pretty confident that you're right before saying something like that.

Can't we all just be friends?
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Old 17th February 2020, 04:42 AM   #1159
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Quote:
Organizers of the Tokyo Marathon said Monday they will allow only elite athletes, including wheelchair racers, to take part in the upcoming pre-Olympic event, as Japan steps up efforts to contain the coronavirus outbreak.

Of the 38,000 who were scheduled to compete on March 1, those in the "general entry" category can no longer take part because of the virus outbreak in China and its spread to other countries, which has already affected a number of other sports events.

...

The elite full marathon field includes 176 runners and 30 wheelchair athletes.

With the 2020 Summer Games less than six months away, Tokyo Olympic officials have voiced concerns about how the fast-spreading virus could disrupt the games, which are scheduled from July 24 through Aug. 9.

The chaos caused by the coronavirus outbreak has already resulted in a host of sporting events being canceled or rescheduled in China and Japan, but 2020 Games head Yoshiro Mori said last Thursday canceling the Olympics "has not been considered."
Kyodo News

Well, if Yoshiro Mori is on the case, then I'm sure nothing can go wrong.

Of course, the local organizers and the IOC want to promote the idea that the Olympics will go ahead as planned, just like Mayor Vaughn at Amity Beach. They don't want to scare away business. Hopefully it will go ahead as planned, but as I mentioned, there are some expressing concerns about it:

Quote:
The news is bound to raise more concerns about whether the virus could disrupt the Olympic Games in Tokyo, which are due to start on 24 July. So far there have been over 70,000 cases in China alone, with 1,770 deaths. Last week senior officials at the International Olympic Committee insisted that there was no plan B to reschedule the Games.

“There’s no case for any contingency plans or cancelling the Games or moving the Games,” John Coates, the head of an IOC inspection team, insisted. He added that the World Health Organisation had advised him that a back-up plan isn’t necessary and that the Games “remains on track.”

But other experts have warned that the coronavirus-related health risks to Japan are hard to predict. “There is no guarantee that the outbreak will come to an end before the Olympics because we have no scientific basis to be able to say that,” Shigeru Omi, a former regional director of the WHO.
Link
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 17th February 2020, 05:23 AM   #1160
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Belz, personally I didn't read his posts in the way. And it's a pretty serious accusation to say someone is taking pleasure in the idea of millions of people dying, so I think you should be pretty confident that you're right before saying something like that.

Can't we all just be friends?
Oh, please. There's no need to exaggerate. Most people have a morbid fascination with disaster, but the vast majority of us try to keep it in check. My comment is simply that TA seems a bit too wedded to the possibility. It's not a personal insult.
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