ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags celebrity incidents , Mick Jagger , sexual assault incidents , sexual assault issues

Reply
Old 2nd February 2020, 10:15 AM   #1
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,633
Mick Jagger the Child Rapist

Mick Jagger seduced me when I was 15: Actress Rae Dawn Chong reveals how she spent night with Rolling Stone when she was underage and he was married to Bianca

Originally Posted by Daily Mail
As she opened the front door, she instantly recognised the swaggering figure before her with his tousled hair and 'rock star grin'. 'You're cute,' said legendary Rolling Stones frontman Mick Jagger to which she cheekily replied: 'You're cuter.' It was the moment the 33-year-old rock idol met 15-year-old budding actress Rae Dawn Chong, who last night sensationally revealed she and Sir Mick had a two-day fling in 1977 while he was still married to first wife Bianca. Rae Dawn, best-known for her role in the 1985 action film Commando, met the womanising rocker during a trip to New York. After their brief introduction, he whisked her to a recording studio before the pair spent the night together.

In an exclusive interview with The Mail on Sunday last night, Rae Dawn, now a thrice-divorced, 58-year-old grandmother, said: 'He never asked me how old I was and I never told him. It never came up. I remember thinking he was really cute. He had tousled hair. I thought, 'Oh man, he is beautiful.' 'He said, 'What are you doing right now?' I said, 'Nothing really.' 'He grabbed my hand and we jumped in his limo and went straight to a recording studio. The Stones were there, I was in the background. I remember being in there for hours and hours. 'Then I slept over at his apartment. I knew what I was doing. I was experimenting with Mick. I was having fun.'

Rae Dawn, who says Jagger did not know her age, recalls waking to find Jagger's bandmate Keith Richards staring at the pair...

...Sitting down with The Mail on Sunday last night in a hotel overlooking the bright light's of LA's infamous Sunset Strip, the B-list actress insisted Jagger should not be vilified because their fling took place 'in a different era' to today's #MeToo culture.

She says she is only speaking out to 'own' the story after accidentally blurting out during a podcast that she had sex with Jagger when she was two years under the age of consent. The podcast is due to air today. Speaking on tape to showbiz 'bible' The Hollywood Reporter, she was asked how she landed the Commando role: 'I got it because I'd been in a Jagger video and then they asked me how I knew Mick and before I knew it I'd blurted out that I'd had sex with him when I was 15. It just slipped out. 'I feel incredibly bad about it. It's me and my big mouth. My family and friends knew about it but it's not something I have ever dined out on.'

Last night, Sir Mick declined to comment...

...She says that her own family will be 'disgusted' by her decision to go public and believes Jagger himself will be angry and devastated: 'He's probably going to lose his **** because I was a minor. He's going to be so mad at me.'...

...'Mick was very beautiful, very shy, very self-absorbed,' she recalls. 'He had great lips, he was a great kisser. He wasn't that much older than me in my brain. He was 33 and young and gorgeous with a nice body. It wasn't a bad thing, it was fabulous. Totally rock 'n' roll. He didn't make me do anything I didn't want to do, but he was very vain, always looking in the mirror.'

The age of consent at the time was 17, but Sir Mick cannot face criminal charges as the statute of limitations for reporting second-degree rape is 20 years not that Rae Dawn would ever want him to be prosecuted...

...'He did nothing wrong. He didn't make me do anything I didn't want to do,' she said. 'It was the 1970s, a different era. I wasn't a victim.

'I don't want him to get into trouble about this. It wasn't traumatising. I knew what I was doing. I wasn't an innocent schoolgirl. I always acted a lot older than I was. I was a grown-up at 15. At 15, I was definitely a Lolita,' she said. 'I knew I had the power to pick and chose whatever man I wanted. I was keen to have every experience I could. Mick was part of that.'...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-married.html
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 19550.jpg (31.2 KB, 21 views)
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 10:31 AM   #2
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 12,108
Interesting dilemma, with her insisting she consented and was not a victim. So was she?
Not clear if Jagger knew she was underage
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 10:38 AM   #3
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 26,914
Bill Wyman heard sniggering.

Just a slightly inflammatory headline.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 10:49 AM   #4
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 25,922
Quote:
'It was the 1970s, a different era.'
The 1970's was not a "different era" in any way that matters; underage sex was still illegal then, and people still went to jail for it when they were caught, unless of course they were rich and/or famous.
__________________
"WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 10:50 AM   #5
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,633
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Interesting dilemma, with her insisting she consented and was not a victim. So was she?
It's pretty obvious that she consented. But with her being 15 years old, she cannot legally consent and so therefore it was sexual assault which is rape. The law cannot describe her as anything other than a victim.

We see this constantly in modern cases with non-adult girls and boys who do consent to sex with adults but then the adult is hit with strong penalties when charged.

Quote:
Not clear if Jagger knew she was underage.
It's not supposed to matter. It doesn't seem to be a case of genuine entrapment such as her presenting a fake ID stating that she is of legal consent age.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 10:59 AM   #6
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 18,458
43 years is plenty pf time to conjure up false memories.

50 years since high school for me, and I really think I did sleep with all those girls I lied about. Though none of my memories include fames , like Raquel Welch frinstnce.
__________________
Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 11:21 AM   #7
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,633
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
43 years is plenty pf time to conjure up false memories.
Including Jagger saying that he has no memory of ever having sex with her.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 12:51 PM   #8
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 37,899
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Including Jagger saying that he has no memory of ever having sex with her.
Which may be true. When you've had sex with thousands of women, you can't remember them all.

I speak from experience.
__________________
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 03:55 PM   #9
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,720
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Interesting dilemma, with her insisting she consented and was not a victim. So was she?
Not clear if Jagger knew she was underage
She says he didn't.

Quote:
I knew what I was doing. I was experimenting with Mick. I was having fun.'

Rae Dawn, who says Jagger did not know her age, recalls waking to find Jagger's bandmate Keith Richards staring at the pair.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 03:58 PM   #10
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,720
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The 1970's was not a "different era" in any way that matters; underage sex was still illegal then, and people still went to jail for it when they were caught, unless of course they were rich and/or famous.
True enough. But that "when" is decisive. Nobody here, especially including the "victim," complained.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 04:01 PM   #11
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,438
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
43 years is plenty pf time to conjure up false memories.

50 years since high school for me, and I really think I did sleep with all those girls I lied about. Though none of my memories include fames , like Raquel Welch frinstnce.
Yeah, this. Lets look at the facts


1. She says she was a willing partner
2. She says she wasn't a "victim"
3. The statute of limitations expired 23 years ago
4. She says she would not want him prosecuted anyway
5. She says he didn't know her age

This story is just a big, fat nothingburger... oh, and it comes from the "Daily Fail" so that is a strike against it up front. ANYTHING that come from the "Fail" needs to at least be second sourced.

Go home folks, nothing to see here!
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 2nd February 2020 at 04:04 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 04:52 PM   #12
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 12,108
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
She says he didn't.
Right, but I'd be interested in his evaluation at the time, more than her impression/recollection decades later.

As in, Jagger may have been fully aware, or at least suspected, she was underage at the time and ran with it anyway.

Jagger was from the UK, what was the AOC there at the time? Might it not even have occurred to him that he was breaking a US law?
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 05:00 PM   #13
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,574
I had a 15-year-old girlfriend who told me, I think I may have slept with Dennis Hopper. And Im like, did you or didnt you? And she said, I did, but Im not really sure he was Dennis Hopper.

She was on the developed side and her parents for whatever reason tolerated her friendships with adult men.

This was back in 75 or so. And Im wondering how many people would lie about being Dennis Hopper?

She said he was really nice, gave her a few pointers for her performance
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 05:11 PM   #14
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,438
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Right, but I'd be interested in his evaluation at the time, more than her impression/recollection decades later.

As in, Jagger may have been fully aware, or at least suspected, she was underage at the time and ran with it anyway.

Jagger was from the UK, what was the AOC there at the time? Might it not even have occurred to him that he was breaking a US law?
16, and its been that in England and Wales since 1885
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 2nd February 2020 at 05:14 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 06:21 PM   #15
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6,678
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
True enough. But that "when" is decisive. Nobody here, especially including the "victim," complained.
She was groomed, that's the problem. She's so far gone that she doesn't even recognize she was a victim of child rape. This is exactly why it doesn't matter if it was consensual or not.
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 06:33 PM   #16
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 18,458
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
She was groomed, that's the problem. She's so far gone that she doesn't even recognize she was a victim of child rape. This is exactly why it doesn't matter if it was consensual or not.
If she was groomed it was by the "Free Love" society if the time.

40 years later, today's society would sure be different if it wasn't for herpes and HIV.
__________________
Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 06:53 PM   #17
p0lka
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: near trees, houses and a lake.
Posts: 2,116
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
16, and its been that in England and Wales since 1885
offtopic: for heterosexual sex yeah, quite different if she was a he, it was 21 in 1977 and it was 18 until late 90's as i recall... talk about inequality, but yeah offtopic.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 07:11 PM   #18
wasapi
Penultimate Amazing
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,753
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The 1970's was not a "different era" in any way that matters; underage sex was still illegal then, and people still went to jail for it when they were caught, unless of course they were rich and/or famous.
But there was a very different atmosphere then, prior to me2 movement. It was also still an era when free love and sex in general were discussed with a more relaxed attitude then it had been in years prior.

This just seems a nothing-much-to-it article.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 07:43 PM   #19
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,525
I always hated the Stones so they should lock 'em up.
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 07:47 PM   #20
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,438
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
She was groomed, that's the problem. She's so far gone that she doesn't even recognize she was a victim of child rape. This is exactly why it doesn't matter if it was consensual or not.
Oh, rubbish. When did he have time to groom her... they had just met. As casebro said, she would certainly have been influenced by the times at that age. I don't really think you can call that "grooming".

If you weren't a teenager in the late 1960s and the 1970s, then you really have no actual idea - Woodstock, flower power, hippies, free love, sexual inhibitions zero.... it was all happenin' man, and yeah, underage girls (and boys for that matter) were gettin' their rocks off, without being "groomed" because that's what they wanted. I'll bet you that among the 400,000 people at Woodstock, there was a truckload of under-age kids "getting it on"!
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 2nd February 2020 at 07:57 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 08:29 PM   #21
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,592
I'm tired of claims of "child rape" due to this type of reporting.

This was inappropriate but she seems to relish recalling the fling, not like she was traumatized like a prepubescent child who suffered rape would be.

Often the public is going to be far more shocked than the participants. It's a nothingburger as far as I'm concerned.

Jagger isn't Epstein, let alone true child rapists like Peter Scully (not for the queasy).

Last edited by Venom; 2nd February 2020 at 08:30 PM.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 08:45 PM   #22
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,438
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I'm tired of claims of "child rape" due to this type of reporting.

This was inappropriate but she seems to relish recalling the fling, not like she was traumatized like a prepubescent child who suffered rape would be.

Often the public is going to be far more shocked than the participants. It's a nothingburger as far as I'm concerned.

Jagger isn't Epstein, let alone true child rapists like Peter Scully (not for the queasy).
Uggh! Honestly, anyone reading this who has a weak stomach, please don't Google this scrumbag.
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 08:46 PM   #23
MicahJava
Master Poster
 
MicahJava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,995
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Interesting dilemma, with her insisting she consented and was not a victim. So was she?
Not clear if Jagger knew she was underage
I don't think what the accuser thinks matters here. It is reasonable to say that 15 is not mature enough for sex, and anybody who has sex with someone that young is a danger to society.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 08:53 PM   #24
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 57,478
I don't think we're confined to statutes of limitations or the letter of the law when we decide whether a given behavior and/or person is sleazy.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 08:59 PM   #25
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 12,108
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I don't think what the accuser thinks matters here. It is reasonable to say that 15 is not mature enough for sex, and anybody who has sex with someone that young is a danger to society.
i think it's reasonable to say that in general, 15 is normally not ready.

What I'm seeing is a young woman who appeared to be ready, unlike most of her peers. Should she be treated as an outlier, or made to conform to other peoples arbitrary AOCs?
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:05 PM   #26
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 28,050
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
If you weren't a teenager in the late 1960s and the 1970s, then you really have no actual idea - Woodstock, flower power, hippies, free love, sexual inhibitions zero.... it was all happenin' man, and yeah, underage girls (and boys for that matter) were gettin' their rocks off, without being "groomed" because that's what they wanted. I'll bet you that among the 400,000 people at Woodstock, there was a truckload of under-age kids "getting it on"!
No doubt. Were they getting it on with adults more than twice their age?

I think that morally that makes a difference.

Besides, there is a reason why there is an age of consent. It is because people of that age are not considered mature enough to make the decision, just as pubs can't serve children beer on the basis that "they wanted it."
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:07 PM   #27
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,438
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
No doubt. Were they getting it on with adults more than twice their age?

I think that morally that makes a difference.
Probably does, but it didn't seem to bother her.... then or now.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Besides, there is a reason why there is an age of consent. It is because people of that age are not considered mature enough to make the decision, just as pubs can't serve children beer on the basis that "they wanted it."
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I don't think what the accuser thinks matters here. It is reasonable to say that 15 is not mature enough for sex, and anybody who has sex with someone that young is a danger to society.
Bollocks! 16 as an AoC is just an arbitrary number and it varies from country to country.

In Aruba its 15, in Brazil, Paraguay, Peru Ecuador and Bolivia its 14. In Canada its 16 but is can be as low as 12 under certain circumstances due to a “close-in-age” exception; 14- and 15-year-olds can legally consent to a partner less than five years older than them and 12- and 13-year-olds can consent to a partner less than two years older than them.

Even the USA does not have a fixed AoC that applies across the board. It ranges from 16 to 18 depending on the state.
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 2nd February 2020 at 09:10 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:16 PM   #28
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,592
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
i think it's reasonable to say that in general, 15 is normally not ready.

What I'm seeing is a young woman who appeared to be ready, unlike most of her peers. Should she be treated as an outlier, or made to conform to other peoples arbitrary AOCs?
I think she should be treated as an outlier.

Apparently Mick Jagger didn't know her real age. He just met her and all. I mean....I say all the time, same deal with our cavemen ancestors. Unless they are some abnormal pedophile normally they wouldn't pick out children out of a crowd. But a teenager can quite easily blend into a young adult crowd, say a group of 16-25 year olds I think it'd be silly to demand every person show their ID card and birth certificate (the long form) before you decide whether you are sexually attracted to them or not.

Consent laws of course exist to streamline the process but it takes no prisoners and there are many young couples who fall victim to it.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:17 PM   #29
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,999
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I always hated the Stones so they should lock 'em up.
Yeah, I'm more of a Who/Pete Townshend fan. Oh, wait.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:19 PM   #30
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 28,050
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Probably does, but it didn't seem to bother her.... then or now.
That's true of all kinds of illegal sex. So what?

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Bollocks! 16 as an AoC is just an arbitrary number and it varies from country to country.
So what? Are you saying it is okay for 33 year old men to have sex with 15 year olds?
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:21 PM   #31
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,438
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yeah, I'm more of a Who/Pete Townshend fan. Oh, wait.
Indeed!

Newsflash: "1970's Rock Star Sleeps with Under Age Girl" pictures at 6!!

(well, maybe not the pictures)
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:25 PM   #32
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 37,899
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
i think it's reasonable to say that in general, 15 is normally not ready.

What I'm seeing is a young woman who appeared to be ready, unlike most of her peers. Should she be treated as an outlier, or made to conform to other peoples arbitrary AOCs?
What does Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have to do with this?
__________________
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:26 PM   #33
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 7,830
She's only 15 years old.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Last edited by Matthew Best; 2nd February 2020 at 09:29 PM.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:26 PM   #34
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 12,108
Hey, we are talking about Mick Jagger here, not Vaniila Ice. He could bang me at 15, or now should he please. Him and/or Bowie. Well, not Bowie right now. But maybe.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:30 PM   #35
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,438
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
That's true of all kinds of illegal sex. So what?
pretty sure its not true of paedophiles or sexual predators who prey on children.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
So what? Are you saying it is okay for 33 year old men to have sex with 15 year olds?
Nah, I thought you might try that on - I've been around too long to fall for that game. That's why I was very careful to separate your post into two parts and reply to each part separately.

You said "besides" and in so doing you divorced your next comment from the earlier part of your post about the morality of it. My answer did not address the morality of it at all, it addressed your comment (and MicahJava's) about age of content, and only that.
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:35 PM   #36
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 4,592
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
So what? Are you saying it is okay for 33 year old men to have sex with 15 year olds?
No it's not okay imo.

However.....I don't think it's particularly abnormal.
When you cross the line into pedophilia (pre-puberty) then it becomes abnormal and off limits.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:36 PM   #37
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 28,050
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
pretty sure its not true of paedophiles or sexual predators who prey on children.



Nah, I thought you might try that on - I've been around too long to fall for that game. That's why I was very careful to separate your post into two parts and reply to each part separately.

You said "besides" and in so doing you divorced your next comment from the earlier part of your post about the morality of it. My answer did not address the morality of it at all, it addressed your comment (and MicahJava's) about age of content, and only that.
Then cut to the chase, do you think it is okay for 33 year old men to have sex with 15 year olds?

Your "nothing to see here, folks" and "it was the 70s, folks!" apologetics appears to appear to exonerate Jagger.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 09:52 PM   #38
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,525
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yeah, I'm more of a Who/Pete Townshend fan. Oh, wait.
I'm only into the classics.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


15, 17 c'est la mme chose ... non?

Last edited by Elagabalus; 2nd February 2020 at 09:54 PM.
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 10:12 PM   #39
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 15,438
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Then cut to the chase, do you think it is okay for 33 year old men to have sex with 15 year olds?

Your "nothing to see here, folks" and "it was the 70s, folks!" apologetics appears to appear to exonerate Jagger.
Oh, how you would love everything to be conveniently black and white eh, so that you can compartmentalise everything everyone says or does into nice, tidy little boxes; this thing is "right" and this thing is "wrong". I think you're trying to put Jagger into your "wrong" box with Jimmy Saville.

Well, I have news for you angrysoba - the real world is nothing like that - you'll be needing lot more boxes and they will need to be marked in many, many shades of grey.

But to directly answer your question, I neither exonerate nor condemn him, I simply recognise reality when I see it. Compartmentalise that!

This sort of thing was happening all the time in the 1970s

- he didn't know how old she was
- she didn't tell him
- I suspect she would have lied if he had asked
- and she didn't have a problem with it then, or now

My position on this case is "no harm, no foul"
__________________
"Woke" is a pejorative term used by racists, homophobes and misogynists to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 10:22 PM   #40
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 12,108
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I'm only into the classics.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


15, 17 c'est la mme chose ... non?
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:07 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.