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Old 20th July 2018, 01:36 PM   #321
HansMustermann
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Japan was probably thinking "We beat them soundly in 1905, we'll do it again. ". Japan rarely considered inferior equipment to be a detriment to their inevitable success. "Fighting Spirit" more important than a tougher tank, better rifle, or, heck, regular rations.
Well, generally the Axis powers seemed to be the guys who could least afford to wage a war, but drank deep and greedily of their own Kool Aid about superior people and triumph of the will power and all. Germany even had a complete internal organizational chaos in the name of a pseudo-darwinist will to triumph, while Japan and Italy seem to have indeed grossly overestimated what they can do with their equipment and logistics. Among other things.

But in Japan's case it does bring me to an observation I made a long time ago, in a galaxy far a... err... just a long time ago. Namely that Japan didn't learn the same lessons in WW1 that the European countries learned. France, for example, had had the similar "elan" ideas in WW1, but learned fairly quickly that equipment matters too, after all. Japan seems to have missed that lesson, along with several other lessons.

It must also be said, though, that the Axis powers also didn't cooperate almost at all, unlike the Allies. The Americans for example benefited from British experience with convoys, the British used American tanks, there were common operations, etc. Japan essentially fought a separate war the whole time, and had close to no idea of what they should be paying more attention to, that Germany had learned already one way or the other.
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Old 20th July 2018, 01:46 PM   #322
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Maybe they just jumped over it.
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Old 20th July 2018, 02:06 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Well, generally the Axis powers seemed to be the guys who could least afford to wage a war, but drank deep and greedily of their own Kool Aid about superior people and triumph of the will power and all. Germany even had a complete internal organizational chaos in the name of a pseudo-darwinist will to triumph, while Japan and Italy seem to have indeed grossly overestimated what they can do with their equipment and logistics. Among other things.

But in Japan's case it does bring me to an observation I made a long time ago, in a galaxy far a... err... just a long time ago. Namely that Japan didn't learn the same lessons in WW1 that the European countries learned. France, for example, had had the similar "elan" ideas in WW1, but learned fairly quickly that equipment matters too, after all. Japan seems to have missed that lesson, along with several other lessons.

It must also be said, though, that the Axis powers also didn't cooperate almost at all, unlike the Allies. The Americans for example benefited from British experience with convoys, the British used American tanks, there were common operations, etc. Japan essentially fought a separate war the whole time, and had close to no idea of what they should be paying more attention to, that Germany had learned already one way or the other.
There was very little sharing of technology. Japan didn't have radar and only had crude sonar. Germany could have helped out.
Britain for example sent the designs and samples of the Cavity Magnetron and prototype Proximity Fuse to the USA to enable joint development. The designs for the Merlin Engine were also sent to the USA and Packard sent the designs of their all alloy V8 to the UK (Became the Rover V8 still in production in modified form until recently)
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Old 20th July 2018, 06:03 PM   #324
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Yeah, that's exactly right. The Axis guys in fact not only didn't share tech, but really didn't cooperate at all, and occasionally actually got in each other's way or indirectly harmed each other. It's like the three stooges with armies.
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Old 20th July 2018, 07:09 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
...Packard sent the designs of their all alloy V8 to the UK (Became the Rover V8 still in production in modified form until recently)
Uh, I don't think so. The Rover V8 came from General Motors and was used by Buick and Oldsmobile in the early '60's. And by Brabham in Formula 1, winning championships in 1966 and '67.
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Old 20th July 2018, 07:43 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
It must also be said, though, that the Axis powers also didn't cooperate almost at all, unlike the Allies. The Americans for example benefited from British experience with convoys, the British used American tanks, there were common operations, etc. Japan essentially fought a separate war the whole time, and had close to no idea of what they should be paying more attention to, that Germany had learned already one way or the other.
Heck the Canadians and the Americans created a combined battalion sized unit that functioned to a high level while the Axis could barely cooperate at the divisional level....
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Old 21st July 2018, 01:43 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Uh, I don't think so. The Rover V8 came from General Motors and was used by Buick and Oldsmobile in the early '60's. And by Brabham in Formula 1, winning championships in 1966 and '67.
Yes you are right, I was misremembering.
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Old 21st July 2018, 03:59 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Uh, I don't think so. The Rover V8 came from General Motors and was used by Buick and Oldsmobile in the early '60's. And by Brabham in Formula 1, winning championships in 1966 and '67.
Yes, the "Rover V8" began life as a Buick V8 in the late 50's early 60's in a line of small (by American standards) cars that had a short production life. After than GM was stuck with a fancy motor it didn't know what to do with. So naturally they sold it to the Brits and kept their old low-tech iron V8's. The Buick V8 then went on to power British cars and trucks for the next 40 years.

A good deal for Rover.
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Old 23rd July 2018, 08:55 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Heck the Canadians and the Americans created a combined battalion sized unit that functioned to a high level while the Axis could barely cooperate at the divisional level....
The Devil's Brigade. Although at 1,400 men thats pretty under-strength for a brigade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_..._Service_Force
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Old 23rd July 2018, 11:37 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Heck the Canadians and the Americans created a combined battalion sized unit that functioned to a high level while the Axis could barely cooperate at the divisional level....
And even then, only if Rommel wasn't involved. He didn't DO cooperation
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Old 25th July 2018, 01:54 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
And even then, only if Rommel wasn't involved. He didn't DO cooperation
Yes, but at least he always subordinated tactical success to the wider strategic goals
(main source - other posts by you - but I think I might have misremembered )
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Old 25th July 2018, 10:15 PM   #332
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Actually, the other way around. He was good at tactical level, and even operational, but he had zero clue of strategic goals or logistics. Which kinda correlates to the last command level he was actually trained for, until his BFF Adolf made him a general. Which is, battalion level.

Edit: I might have been a bit harsh in singling out Rommel, though. The SS also didn't DO cooperation with anyone else. YOLO and remember the battle cry of our ancestors: "Leeeerroooyy Jenkins!"
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Last edited by HansMustermann; 25th July 2018 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 26th July 2018, 12:11 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Actually, the other way around. He was good at tactical level, and even operational, but he had zero clue of strategic goals or logistics. Which kinda correlates to the last command level he was actually trained for, until his BFF Adolf made him a general. Which is, battalion level.

Edit: I might have been a bit harsh in singling out Rommel, though. The SS also didn't DO cooperation with anyone else. YOLO and remember the battle cry of our ancestors: "Leeeerroooyy Jenkins!"
Just in case somebody is unfamiliar with Leeroy Jenkins:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p.../LeeroyJenkins
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Old 26th July 2018, 01:50 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post

Thing is, though, the BT-5 had more than twice the hp/ton, better front armor, and a MUCH better gun. The optics were also better than what the Japanese had, ensuring a very good chance of hitting the Japanese well outside their own effective range, even though they were vastly inferior to the German ones. (Light transmission for example was crap until well after Barbarossa, due to lack of quality coatings on the lenses.)

.
Apart from the Germans, did anyone have coated optics in WW2 ? I've got a periscope sight from a Sherman here and it doesn't appear to have any optical coatings.
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Old 26th July 2018, 04:13 AM   #335
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I THINK the Soviets did, actually.
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Old 26th July 2018, 08:22 AM   #336
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Light transmission isn’t only about coatings, it’s also type of glass and lens/prism manufacture. Getting better quality transmitting glass is actually quite the industry.
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Old 26th July 2018, 10:02 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, but at least he always subordinated tactical success to the wider strategic goals
(main source - other posts by you - but I think I might have misremembered )
Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Actually, the other way around. He was good at tactical level, and even operational, but he had zero clue of strategic goals or logistics. Which kinda correlates to the last command level he was actually trained for, until his BFF Adolf made him a general. Which is, battalion level.

Edit: I might have been a bit harsh in singling out Rommel, though. The SS also didn't DO cooperation with anyone else. YOLO and remember the battle cry of our ancestors: "Leeeerroooyy Jenkins!"
Yes, that fell a bit flat; I thought that I'd signposted my sarcasm with my second paragraph. It would have been quite an achievement to have taken that message from your posts
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Old 26th July 2018, 11:23 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by Reactor drone View Post
Apart from the Germans, did anyone have coated optics in WW2 ? I've got a periscope sight from a Sherman here and it doesn't appear to have any optical coatings.
It depends on the optics. gun sights were coated as were binoculars and telescopes but vision blocks in tanks weren't.
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Old 26th July 2018, 11:47 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, that fell a bit flat; I thought that I'd signposted my sarcasm with my second paragraph. It would have been quite an achievement to have taken that message from your posts
Well, I probably needed another coffee before my sarcasm detector starts
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Old 26th July 2018, 01:16 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, that fell a bit flat; I thought that I'd signposted my sarcasm with my second paragraph. It would have been quite an achievement to have taken that message from your posts
Well, I couldn't decide which way to read your post. And started to doubt my memory...
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Old 26th July 2018, 01:22 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Well, I couldn't decide which way to read your post. And started to doubt my memory...
The trouble with the British liking for sarcasm played straight.

Especially in text.

Still, that's half the fun.
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Old 26th July 2018, 02:56 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
The Devil's Brigade. Although at 1,400 men thats pretty under-strength for a brigade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_..._Service_Force
The 1968 William Holden/Cliff Robertson film"The Devil's Brigade" is fun,but not very accurate.
Although they did pretty much nail the attack on Mt Difensa.
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