ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags ae911truth , richard gage

Reply
Old 1st June 2015, 05:18 AM   #121
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
Half a year since I resurrected this thread. Have those petitions or Facebook groups finally broken through to the mainstream and taken off to glorious heights?


Well well well...

Gregg Grider's "California Investigate 9/11" has improved to 107 signatures. Among the most recent:
Quote:
105. DooDooCaCaPeePee from Kunt, MN signed this petition on Jan 12, 2015.
104. George W. Bush from Crawford, TX signed this petition on Dec 14, 2014. I wish Dickie Gage would get off his dead ass and investigate me already
103. I AM 100 YEAH NEW INVESTIGATION!! from TRUTHERS RULE, NY signed this petition on Dec 11, 2014.
102. Mr. Roper from AK, United States signed this petition on Dec 11, 2014.
101. Peekachoo from Pokemon, GU signed this petition on Dec 11, 2014.

The ReThink 9/11 Petition ("When this petition reaches one million signatories, it will be delivered to the Head of State of every nation that had citizens who died in the attacks on September 11, 2001.") has added 768 signatures in half a year (4.2/day). At that pace, they'll hit 1,000,000 in 625 years or so.


The Facebook-group "I Am The Face of Truth 911 Awareness Profile Pics" has now 5,082 members, up from 3887 on December 07. Congratulations! That's almost 7/day! At that pace, they'll reach 1 million in the year 2418! Albeit a bit longer to go till their goal of 24,200,000


Also on Dec 07, I had presented two FB groups for 9/11 truth that have the 1-million-target in their name:
1,000,000 people for 911 TRUTH: From 20,146 to 20,286 on Jan 29 (+2.6/day) - but since then down to 19,952 (-2.7/day)!
1,000,000+ Citizens for an Independent Investigation of Sept.11th, 2001: from 10,239 down to 9,889 (-2.0/day).

By the way, the largest 9/11-group I could so far find on Facebook is this:
The 9/11 Truth Movement
I recorded it at 39,139 members late in December, from whence they grew to 39,500 on March 01 (+5.8/day). Since then they dropped to 38,244 (-13.7/day), much of the decline coming in the last 16 days when they lost more than 800 members (-51/day)! I sort of suspect admins going berserk on eleminating opposition and strengthening their censorship.


With AE911Truth' slump hitting new lows in 2015 (they have most recently been on a pace to eclipse the million-signatures mark by the year 3575 ), I see not the slightest indication that anywhere the masses are gathering to demand real change anytime soon. The Truth Movement remains a fringe group of no more than several thousand people with a modicum of activity world-wide.
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2015, 04:56 AM   #122
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
3 months later

I am the Face of 9/11 Truth

The "I am the Face of 9/11 Truth" campaign seens to be in dire straits. Around August 5, they announced their "Phase II" by admitting that they are out of resources - no money, not enough helping hands to handle what limited activity they have:
http://iamthefaceoftruth.com/PhaseII/
Quote:
We have made close to 15,000 9/11 Truth Awareness Banners, and our goal is/we want/need to make 1,000,000 more awareness banners!
Under 15,000 truthers have done the minimum level of activity and submitted a photo to be decorated with the "9/11 Truth USA" (or whatever is their country) to put up as their Facebook profile picture? 15,000 of 1 million, that's 1.5%. After well over a year!

Their Facebook-Group I Am The Face of Truth 911 Awareness Profile Pics has grown by 286 members to 5368 since June 01 - that's 3.1 per day. At that pace, they'll reach their target of 1 million in about 880 years.

Oh, and still, only about 15% of those 5368 in the group actually have this banner on their profile pic - that's an estimated 800 (I counted a quick sample from members added within the last 9 months; the older members are actually even less like to be sporting the banner still).
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st September 2015, 05:20 AM   #123
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
1 MILLION

And here a reminder how large the gulf is between Truthers' perception of how many they are, and bitter reality.

Several groups and campaigns have an explicit goal of reaching "1 million" supporters (signatures, members...). They must be out of their minds if they ever took this serious:

1. ReThink911
This campaign ate, reportedly, hundreds of thousands of dollars in advertising costs around September 2013, almost two years ago.
Their homepage has a petition which they promise "will be delivered to the Head of State of every nation that lost citizens in the attacks of September 11, 2001" "[w]hen this petition reaches one million signers".
They just surpassed 21,000. That's 2.1% of the target. During 2015, they averaged 4.3 signatures per day. At that pace, they'll reach their target in about 623 years.
Here is the progress so far - scaled to 1 million signatures, and (right axis) to 3,000 sig/day, which they'd need every day to reach the target in just under 3 years.



2. 1,000,000 people for 911 TRUTH
https://www.facebook.com/groups/286311730249
I don't know when this Facebook group was started. I first saw it in early December 2014 when they had 20,146 members. Today, they have 19,931 - 1.9% of target, and since they constantly lose members (about 1.2 per day on average in 2015), they'll never reach their target.
But it is the second-largest truther group I have so far found!



3. 1,000,000+ Citizens for an Independent Investigation of Sept.11th, 2001
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1000000Citizens/
I don't know when this Facebook group was started. I first saw it in early December 2014 when they had 10,239 members. I saw one post in december 2013 that said they had just exceeded 9,000. Today, they have 9,856 - 0.9% of target, and since they constantly lose members (about 1.6 per day on average in 2015), they'll never reach their target.
But it is the third-largest truther group I have so far found!


4. I am the Face of Truth
See my previous post with more details.
They have made under 15,000 banners in more than a year, under 6,000 of those are in the Facebook group, and under 1,000 of those actually show that banner as profile pic on their Facebook account. That's 1.5%/0.6%/<0.1% of target, and the group would take like 880 years to reach the target of 1 million at the current pace.


Conclusion
The 9/11 Truth Movement is a tiny fringe of society. They have several perhaps hundred activists and (of this we can be quite certain) just several tens of thousands of open supporters worldwide. A tiny drop in the ocean of hundreds of millions of people in the developed countries alone.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2015, 06:00 PM   #124
Bravin Neff
Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 193
I love the work you do. Keep it up!
Bravin Neff is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th December 2016, 05:35 PM   #125
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
In the past 2 or 3 years, I have hardly seen any new Truther petitions worth reporting on[*].

Now I found what I consider an exception: The 9/11 Truth Action Project, a AE911T spin-off lead by Wayne Coste, created its own Petition about a week ago:
https://www.911tap.org/join-us/sign-the-petition

It comes with a Strategic Plan! Look what they say:
Originally Posted by 911TAP
The 911TAP Petition Project is intended to be a catalyst for lifting the 9/11 Truth movement out of its current state of decentralized individual actions into a focused, unified movement. Surveys consistently show that, thanks to the work of 9/11 activists since 2001, tens of millions of U.S. citizens already know the truth about 9/11. One of our challenges in converting this awareness into change is the isolation and discouragement of people in the 9/11 Truth movement. ...

The count of signed petitions gathered under this effort will be prominently displayed on the 911TAP website. A rapidly increasing number would serve as a motivational boost to the 9/11 Truth movement, increasing our confidence and encouraging people to work harder. ...

As a quantitative measure, petition count will be used to evaluate the effectiveness of public outreach and member recruitment tactics.
As far as I can see, they don't define a target count, or expected counts, but mentioning "tens of millions" surely suggests the order of magnitude they want to compare themselves with. Shouldn't they go for at least 1% of what they believe is the already converted population? That's be "hundreds of thousands" of signatures.

So far, they have 171.
I'll keeo you updated.


Oh, and here is the Facebook post by Gene Laratonda that first alerted me to this petition:
Originally Posted by Gene Laratonda
If each person here could get 10 signatures, this group could have 54,000 signatures. If each person here could get 100 signatures we would have 540,000 signatures.
Yeah, right, hahaha!
Last time I linked to a 9/11 Petition in a 9/11 Truth group on Facebook (an even larger group), it picked up under 10 more votes, and quite possibly none of them came because I posted it on Facebook

[*] One 9/11 related petition, that was supported by some truthers, was a call to extend the Zadroga Act, which provides federal money to first supporters suffering from 9/11 related trauma and deseases. This one got 186.684 supporters in about only 3 months in late 2015 - and was ultimately successful, Congress did extend the Act. This example shows that the People, and Congress, do still care about 9/11, just not 9/11 Twoof.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th December 2016, 06:37 PM   #126
Mark F
Graduate Poster
 
Mark F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,110
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
In the past 2 or 3 years, I have hardly seen any new Truther petitions worth reporting on[*].

Now I found what I consider an exception: The 9/11 Truth Action Project, a AE911T spin-off lead by Wayne Coste, created its own Petition about a week ago:

As far as I can see, they don't define a target count, or expected counts, but mentioning "tens of millions" surely suggests the order of magnitude they want to compare themselves with. Shouldn't they go for at least 1% of what they believe is the already converted population? That's be "hundreds of thousands" of signatures.
They got one thing right - tens of millions of people do know the truth. Probably more than that even.
__________________
So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts.
Mark F is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th December 2016, 05:19 AM   #127
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
The Strategic Plan should be read entirely, if you are interested in how these Truthers think and organize.

First interesting bit is the new position vis-a-vis AE911Truth. Wayne Coste used to be a AE Board member, and team leader for "Congressional Outreach". A while ago - 2013ish, if my felt memory isn't wrecked - he parted ways with Richard Gage and founded his own tax-exempt outfit, 9/11 Truth Outreach. He took a few other disgruntled AE activists with him, such as David Slesinger and David Fura. As I understand, Coste and the gang had a problem with Gage's priorities, which, in their opinion did not feature mass conversions prominently. It seems they have now reached some kind of truce. Coste's outfit now runs as "9/11 Truth Action Project" and, according to the Strategic Plan, has taken over AE's action groups:
Originally Posted by 911tap.org
Within the past year, the AE911Truth leadership began looking for a way to separate the local action groups from the organization, as they could not justify the growing manpower costs needed to support and monitor the expanding group activities. At the same time, the action groups were looking for greater freedom to communicate the AE911Truth evidence within the context of the historical deep state and the consequences of 9/11 regarding the destructive "war on terror." The separation was mutually agreed upon and amicable.

The other thing I find interesting is how frankly they narrate the lack of success, the slow progress, and the disappointing results of 10 years of Gage's ministry.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th December 2016, 06:35 AM   #128
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
Just found what may have been the first post (or one of the first) announcing the TAP petition - December 04 2016, 12:47pm Pacific Time (Oregon), where David Fura, one of the TAP leaders, lives:
https://www.facebook.com/david.fura....98835646874400

I assume Fura himself put it online, then went to his own Facebook Profile to link it.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th December 2016, 12:04 PM   #129
pgimeno
Illuminator
 
pgimeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,242
Cool, thanks Oystein. I find this bit interesting:
Many people who are today misinformed by U.S. Government and mainstream media teachings are unlikely to consider the convincing arguments of 9/11 truthers without some external push. For some people, a growing realization that the War on Terror is an unwinnable war, and perhaps even an immoral war, could provide that push. For others, the War on Terror's evisceration of the U.S. Constitution could do it.
It's interesting, because they don't seem to think that you can be against war on terror and at the same time unwilling to accept the truthers' crap.

By the way, they use CloudFlare. I had to work around their blocking of Tor using a web proxy in order to access the page.
__________________
Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place.
pgimeno is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th March 2017, 07:49 AM   #130
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
On Dec 10, 2016:
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Now I found ... the 9/11 Truth Action Project, a AE911T spin-off lead by Wayne Coste, created its own Petition about a week ago:
https://www.911tap.org/join-us/sign-the-petition
...
As far as I can see, they don't define a target count, or expected counts, but mentioning "tens of millions" surely suggests the order of magnitude they want to compare themselves with. Shouldn't they go for at least 1% of what they believe is the already converted population? That's be "hundreds of thousands" of signatures.

So far, they have 171.
I'll keep you updated.
...
On Jan 01 they had 240 signatures.
Yesterday (March 25, 2017), 1230
That's an average of just under 12 signatures per day.
But that rate is going down:
Jan: 19.7 per day
Feb: 8.3 per day
Mar: 6.9 per day

At 12 signatures per day, it would take 2 years to reach 10,000 - a totally insignificant number.
22.5 years to get to 100,000 - which would barely register as "alive" (no online petition can ever be successful on a national level without exceeding 100,000 comfortably, better yet millions).
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)

Last edited by Oystein; 26th March 2017 at 07:52 AM.
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 06:02 AM   #131
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
Branching over from another thread, as announced there last month, about a petition and fundraiser by some "Lawyers' Committee for 9/11 Truth":
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Resurrecting an old thread because I stumbled, belatedly, on an organisation devoted to legal action on 9/11 and doing a petition: I am talking about the "Lawyers' Committee for 9/11 Inquiry", tax-free 501(c)(3) incorporation. I have yet to figure out how long this outfit has been around. I found them as I came across a new petition on change.org, which I will follow in another, more appropriate thread (URL to follow).

Of the Board members, I recognize the name William Jacoby, who has been mentioned by AE911T sometimes.

They are trying to collect a whopping US$ 800,000 - I shall watch them fail. At fundraising, I mean.


Overall, it is rather unclear what they will fail at, for their goals and strategies are too all-encompassing and vague. No specific course of action proposed, as far as I can tell from a quick glance.


ETA:
The domain for this group has been created in July 2016:
http://whois.domaintools.com/lawyers...-11inquiry.org

First time archived on archive.org on Nov 01, 2016:
https://web-beta.archive.org/web/201...-11inquiry.org
The petition had been started on March 12, and had reached 853 signatures by March 29 (50 signatures per day).
Since then, is has soared to 972 signatures (6.3 per day).
At that pace, they'll reach a totally insignificant 10,000 signatures in under 4 years.

The fundraiser was started on March 23 and had reached $455 by March 29 ($67.5 per day).
Since then it has soared to $930 ($25 per day).
The fundraiser has a goal of $800,000 (no kidding!). At the latest pace, they'll reach 1% of that in a bit over 9 months. And the goal a bit after the turn of the next century



ETA:
So far, 18 individuals (under 2% of the signers) have donated an average of just over $50. Assuming these proportions can be maintained, then they'll need ($800,000/$50 =) 16,000 donors, out of 800,000 signers. This is grossly unrealistic: AE911Truth, the best-funded, best promoted petition around, has only under 25,000 signers after 10 years. Even their Facebook page, after several years, has under 500,000 likes - and I have reason to suspect that a very significant proportion of those are bought. Sure, AE911T draws in a 6-digit amount of income annually, but they are competing with the lawyers.

The problem is still that the worldwide Truth Movement has only about a couple of tenthousand earnest believers, only some of which can be expected to invest actual money to such cause. They would need $50 pretty much from every damned truther there is in the world.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)

Last edited by Oystein; 17th April 2017 at 06:24 AM. Reason: ETA
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st May 2017, 09:24 AM   #132
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
Update - The "Lawyers' Committee for 9/11 Truth" petition:

Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Branching over from another thread, as announced there last month, about a petition and fundraiser by some "Lawyers' Committee for 9/11 Truth":


The petition had been started on March 12, and had reached 853 signatures by March 29 (50 signatures per day).
Since then, is has soared to 972 signatures (6.3 per day).
At that pace, they'll reach a totally insignificant 10,000 signatures in under 4 years.

The fundraiser was started on March 23 and had reached $455 by March 29 ($67.5 per day).
Since then it has soared to $930 ($25 per day).
The fundraiser has a goal of $800,000 (no kidding!). At the latest pace, they'll reach 1% of that in a bit over 9 months. And the goal a bit after the turn of the next century
No surprises in April:

The petition picked up only 40 more signatures (now at 1012) since I last reported on April 17 - that's only 2.9 per day now.
change.org automatically changed the goal to 1,500, up from 1,000, when the one-thousand-mark was reached. Of course, as I already argued, they ought to have a goal in the high hundreds of thousands.

The fundraiser has not picked up another dollar since April 17! Still at $930 from 18 donors.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st May 2017, 10:09 AM   #133
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
Update - the "911 Truth Action Project" ("911TAP") petition:

Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
On Dec 10, 2016:

On Jan 01 they had 240 signatures.
Yesterday (March 25, 2017), 1230
That's an average of just under 12 signatures per day.
But that rate is going down:
Jan: 19.7 per day
Feb: 8.3 per day
Mar: 6.9 per day

At 12 signatures per day, it would take 2 years to reach 10,000 - a totally insignificant number.
22.5 years to get to 100,000 - which would barely register as "alive" (no online petition can ever be successful on a national level without exceeding 100,000 comfortably, better yet millions).
In April, they went from 1284 to 1367 signatures - plus 83 in 30 days, that's 2.8 per day. I have to update the March-figure in the quote above, such that we are now at:
Jan: 19.7 per day
Feb: 8.3 per day
Mar: 7.0 per day
Apr: 2.8 per day

I was pleasantly surprised the other day to find that the TAP published a "911TAP Petition Project Quarterly Progress Report"
I learned from this that the petition, which started online on December 04 2016, had actually begun with paper petitions in late August 2016. It seems that they had already a few hundred such paper petitions when the online petition started, and that it took them about a month, until early January, to plug them all into their database.

To-date, rouchly more than half the signatures were collected on paper.



Ha, and now I know their goals: In an article I had so far missed, titled "The 9/11 TAP Petition Project", David Fura (from Portland, OR) spells it out:
  • 32,000 signatures by the end of 2017
  • 1 million+ signatures by the end of 2020 (after 4 years)

I despise the following acronym, but it is fitting in its inulting condescension here: LOL!

So far, they got under 10 signatures per day since January 01 - and that rate is steadily declining. At the 2.8/day they had in April, and with 245 days to go, they'll struggle to break the 2,000 mark.
With 1341 days to go till the end of 2020, they'd need 745 signatures every single day to reach the target of 1 million.

These folks are deluded beyond repair.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st June 2017, 08:44 AM   #134
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
No surprises in April:

The petition picked up only 40 more signatures (now at 1012) since I last reported on April 17 - that's only 2.9 per day now.
change.org automatically changed the goal to 1,500, up from 1,000, when the one-thousand-mark was reached. Of course, as I already argued, they ought to have a goal in the high hundreds of thousands.

The fundraiser has not picked up another dollar since April 17! Still at $930 from 18 donors.
Update - The "Lawyers' Committee for 9/11 Truth" petition:

The tragedy gets even more depressing in May:

The petition picked up only 65 signatures (now at 1077) in all of May - that's only 2.1 per day now.
Remember: they ought to have a goal in the high hundreds of thousands.

The fundraiser has picked up only one (1) donation of $75 the entire month (Now at $1005). That's $2.78 per day.
The current goal for "Stage 1" (of 7) of this project is $7000. They crept from 13.3% to 14.4% of this goal. Wow. At that pace, they'll get there in just 12 years and eight months!
Of course they want to raise a total of $800,000 eventually. This will take a cool 888 years

(I'll admit that "The Lawyers’ Committee for 911 Inquiry" offers several ways to donate to them, so these feeble $1005 are probably not all they have to work with; but this public fundraiser demonstrates the total lack of momentum that these people have)
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st June 2017, 09:08 AM   #135
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
...
Ha, and now I know their goals: In an article I had so far missed, titled "The 9/11 TAP Petition Project", David Fura (from Portland, OR) spells it out:
  • 32,000 signatures by the end of 2017
  • 1 million+ signatures by the end of 2020 (after 4 years)
...
So far, they got under 10 signatures per day since January 01 - and that rate is steadily declining. At the 2.8/day they had in April, and with 245 days to go, they'll struggle to break the 2,000 mark.
With 1341 days to go till the end of 2020, they'd need 745 signatures every single day to reach the target of 1 million.
Update - the "911 Truth Action Project" ("911TAP") petition:

They managed to verify more signatures in May than in April:
+217 / 7.0 per day / now at 1584.

But remember: They want to reach 32.000 by the end of this year! They started this year with 240 signstures counted, so each month they need an average of 2650 signature. They didn't even get 10% of that in May! They should have about 13,500 by now, they do have under 12% of that.

Clearly on a track towards massive failure.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2017, 01:45 PM   #136
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
The glorious ReThink911 petition, started on September 02, 2013, has reached 23,000 signatures! Whoopee!
Probably about two days ago. And this only 438 days after they surpassed the 22,000 mark! At this pace, they'll reach their goal of 1 million (yes, 1 million - do a search for "million" on the rethink911.org starting page!) in less than 1172 years

We had a thread on the ReThink 9/11 campaign, which started four years ago with massive fundraiser (the campaign, not the thread):
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=259583
It was a confusing mess back then, but they claimed to have raised something on the order of $300,000.
This means, that four years later, each signature cost them more than $10!?

For the fun of it, I update graphs on how this petition has developed: Archetypical for 9/11-petitions: Declining rates as time goes on, with spikes each year when the september anniversiry rolles around:



The same, but this time scaled to the 1,000,000 signatures target, and to 1,000/day (what it would take to reach the target in reasonable 2 3/4 years):



And finally, annual year-end numbers, for a clearer picture:



For perspective:
  • In 09/2013, the first month, they collected >500 signatures per day
  • For the remainder of 2013 (Oct-Dec), this quickly dropped to 28/day
  • 2014 - 2016 dropped to 10.3, 4.9, 2.5/day, respectively
  • 2017 so far averages 2.0/day.
  • Even if they had maintained the 520/day they got in the very first month, they would still be 1.5 years away from the 1-million-target today!

I love it that the AE911Truth organization keeps this page and petition up, to faithfully document the abject and ongoing failure they are.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)

Last edited by Oystein; 8th June 2017 at 01:50 PM. Reason: added the last bullet point
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2017, 02:35 PM   #137
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,244
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I love it that the AE911Truth organization keeps this page and petition up, to faithfully document the abject and ongoing failure they are.
They set the bar low for the mentality of their followers.

They expect them to look at 23,000 and think of this as a big number. They also expect their followers to not research the site well enough to realize it's failure.
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41
DGM is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th June 2017, 04:13 PM   #138
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Update - the "911 Truth Action Project" ("911TAP") petition:

...
Ha, and now I know their goals: In an article I had so far missed, titled "The 9/11 TAP Petition Project", David Fura (from Portland, OR) spells it out:
  • 32,000 signatures by the end of 2017
  • 1 million+ signatures by the end of 2020 (after 4 years)

I despise the following acronym, but it is fitting in its inulting condescension here: LOL!
...
With 1341 days to go till the end of 2020, they'd need 745 signatures every single day to reach the target of 1 million.

These folks are deluded beyond repair.
It's even worse!

Here is an article by Board member Christopher Gruener:
Become a Member of the TAP Team (March 30, 2017)
Originally Posted by Chris Gruener
Can you hold a vision wherein, by the end of 2020, our joint generation of 4,000,000+ activists, working in tandem, successfully demands a credible investigation of the 9/11/01 attacks and subsequent appropriate prosecutions of all the American traitors – including those with dual citizenship - who perpetrated those attacks? Together we can do this!
This was written more than three months after David Fura had this wet dream of "a million-plus signer target by the end of year 2020" - now they upgraded to an imagined four-million-plus!

And not only that - Chris imagines that these 4 million+ would not only have filled out an easy form and then forgotten all about it - no: He pictures them all "working in tandem". This chap really has had too hot a fever dream!

Reality check:
  • By the end of 2017, the 911TAP petition will be under 3,200, not exceed 32,000
  • By the end of 2020, they will have reached under 10,000, not 4,000,000 and not 1,000,000
I'd bet on those numbers.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)

Last edited by Oystein; 27th June 2017 at 04:16 PM.
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd August 2017, 12:36 PM   #139
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
The "911TAP Petition Project Quarterly Progress Report (2017 Q2)"

It tells you in great detail where and how they collected 558 signatures in a quarter year.
What they don't tell you is that 186 signatures per month is not even 4% of the 5,000 they need every month during the second half of the year to reach their target of 32,000:
https://www.911tap.org/557-news-rele...tition-project

And consequently no suggestion on how to drastically improve performance, and no discussion of what this means for their larger goals - get 1 million, 4 million signatures, and eventually get "Truth-friendly" Senators and Representatives elected to Congress.

What it means is of course: Ain't gonna happen, ever.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd August 2017, 06:31 PM   #140
Whip
Muse
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 596
they also left out 'your wallet' after tap
Whip is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th August 2017, 02:52 AM   #141
JSanderO
Master Poster
 
JSanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 2,679
Die hard truthers are not going away. They have their own little echo chamber... and mostly repeat to each other the same bits that they believe are the evidence of an inside job. This core group, I believe, participate on the 911 truth teleconference call with the occasional presentation from some "researcher" who presents same old material. These people don't seem to engage with "debunkers" or visit non truther web sites with a odd exceptions like Tony.. who seems to have gone silent in the last year.

And then there was the fake news of the death bed confession that they got all excited about... and that will go no where. None of them are changing their minds.... siege mentality.
__________________
So many idiots and so little time.
JSanderO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2017, 08:17 AM   #142
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
... This core group, I believe, participate on the 911 truth teleconference call with the occasional presentation from some "researcher" who presents same old material. ...
One leader of "Truth Action Project", its founder I think, is Wayne Coste, who is still a frequent participant of the 911 truth teleconference call. He sometime does presentations there, with detailed research on the Pentagon "incident", where he tries hard - and fails" - to convince the conference that a plane did actually hit the Pentagon. the 911TAP is thus a relatively sane faction - in contrast to the even crazier no-planers that outnumber them in many places.

911TAP is a spin-off of AE911Truth, but apparently gets zero support from Gage. Why, an AE newsletter asking AE fans to sign 911TAP's petition could be a boost, no? I think I know two reasons why Gage is well advised not to support Coste:
  1. Such a newsletter, sent to at least the 25,000 signatories of the AE petition, would, in fact, not generate more than a couple hundred signatures, and thus document, as does the 911TAP petition already, that the Truth Movement is out of steam and motion; that the vast majority of their signers, some as long as 10 years ago, no longer supports them, if they ever did.
  2. Guiding his fan base towards someone else asking for contribution would hurt his pocket.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2017, 05:17 AM   #143
JSanderO
Master Poster
 
JSanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 2,679
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
One leader of "Truth Action Project", its founder I think, is Wayne Coste, who is still a frequent participant of the 911 truth teleconference call. He sometime does presentations there, with detailed research on the Pentagon "incident", where he tries hard - and fails" - to convince the conference that a plane did actually hit the Pentagon. the 911TAP is thus a relatively sane faction - in contrast to the even crazier no-planers that outnumber them in many places.

911TAP is a spin-off of AE911Truth, but apparently gets zero support from Gage. Why, an AE newsletter asking AE fans to sign 911TAP's petition could be a boost, no? I think I know two reasons why Gage is well advised not to support Coste:
  1. Such a newsletter, sent to at least the 25,000 signatories of the AE petition, would, in fact, not generate more than a couple hundred signatures, and thus document, as does the 911TAP petition already, that the Truth Movement is out of steam and motion; that the vast majority of their signers, some as long as 10 years ago, no longer supports them, if they ever did.
  2. Guiding his fan base towards someone else asking for contribution would hurt his pocket.
Wayne Coste was not a "founder" of the teleconference call. He was a late comer to AE911T and a much later to the call. Ken Freeland was perhaps.. or maybe Jonathan Marks. The participants change over time... then Craig McKee surfaced...with his truth and Shadows... These are not unintelligent people... they just leave their critical thinking skills behind and have a blind spot with respect to 9/11. They have a cozy little echo chamber going... It both sad and funny actually. The underlying raison d'etre is that if something is coming from "official" or MSM or authorities is a lie and a cover. up.
__________________
So many idiots and so little time.
JSanderO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2017, 11:21 AM   #144
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
Wayne Coste was not a "founder" of the teleconference call.
You read carelessly. I called him the founder of the "9/11 Truth Action Project" (911TAP).

Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
Ken Freeland was perhaps.. or maybe Jonathan Marks. The participants change over time... then Craig McKee surfaced...with his truth and Shadows... These are not unintelligent people...
Oh, absolutely, McKee is pretty sharp, so is Coste, so are several others. Much like those of my religious friends who are successful in academia, profession and social life - very intelligent people among them, just very wrong and beyond reproach on a whole belief system.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2017, 04:24 PM   #145
JSanderO
Master Poster
 
JSanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 2,679
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
You read carelessly. I called him the founder of the "9/11 Truth Action Project" (911TAP).


Oh, absolutely, McKee is pretty sharp, so is Coste, so are several others. Much like those of my religious friends who are successful in academia, profession and social life - very intelligent people among them, just very wrong and beyond reproach on a whole belief system.
which is like a cult or religion where the members do not question the premises of the religion or cult... they accept them a priori... there WAS a CD or the was an INSIDE JOB...
__________________
So many idiots and so little time.
JSanderO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th September 2017, 04:20 AM   #146
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,833
In one of the Facebook groups I monitor, someone linked to yet another petition to the whitehouse.org site:

"We ask President Trump to explain his statements and position on the 9/11 attacks
Created by R.R. on September 01, 2017"

9 days later, and 21 days to go
100,000 mandatory goal
10 signed
Needs 99,990 signatures by October 1, 2017 to get a response from the White House

Yet another show of how few, how disorganized, how scattered and how unmotivated the 911TM is in 2017.

And I am not even sure if the Trump White House will honor such petitions any longer, as they were something Obama introduced, IIRC.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th September 2017, 02:06 PM   #147
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 15,299
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
In one of the Facebook groups I monitor, someone linked to yet another petition to the whitehouse.org site:

"We ask President Trump to explain his statements and position on the 9/11 attacks
Created by R.R. on September 01, 2017"

9 days later, and 21 days to go
100,000 mandatory goal
10 signed
Needs 99,990 signatures by October 1, 2017 to get a response from the White House

Yet another show of how few, how disorganized, how scattered and how unmotivated the 911TM is in 2017.

And I am not even sure if the Trump White House will honor such petitions any longer, as they were something Obama introduced, IIRC.
Plus, the longer he can string Truthers along, the longer they will vote for him. Along with the rest of his fringe opinion base.
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:45 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.