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Old 6th August 2010, 11:48 AM   #281
aggle-rithm
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
And Gage is no better! Not nuclear but conventional explosives "pulverized" the concrete in mid air! Do they have absolutley no concept of the energy required to do this and what it does to the area around it? How does a blast wave reach the outer most part of the buildings and stop?
I feel your pain. They talk like experts in controlled demolition, yet are unable to grasp the simple fact that the easiest way to destroy a building is to take out the supporting elements and let gravity do the rest.

I mean, really...what controlled demolition professional would try to blow up all the concrete?
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Old 6th August 2010, 01:19 PM   #282
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Quote:
And Gage is no better! Not nuclear but conventional explosives "pulverized" the concrete in mid air! Do they have absolutley no concept of the energy required to do this and what it does to the area around it? How does a blast wave reach the outer most part of the buildings and stop?
the windows stopped it
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Old 7th August 2010, 03:24 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
I feel your pain. They talk like experts in controlled demolition, yet are unable to grasp the simple fact that the easiest way to destroy a building is to take out the supporting elements and let gravity do the rest.

I mean, really...what controlled demolition professional would try to blow up all the concrete?
No idea, I can remember reading somewhere that truthers were claiming that aside from the top-down demolition sequence, the various 'chunks' of the building were blasted apart with explosives in mid-air!

I've no idea how to do that...and I seriously doubt the people making the claims did either.
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Old 7th August 2010, 06:53 AM   #284
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Has anyone come across this one? I had someone claim that the lower portion of the buildings shouldn't have collapsed because the fires were 80-90 floors higher!

Either a straw man tactic or shear ignorance, they are suggesting that since there were no fires on the lower floors, they shouldn't have "weakened" like the floors in the fire zones. Completely ignoring that a 68,000 ton mass smashed through them!

That's pretty stupid, isn't it?

Last edited by cantonear1968; 7th August 2010 at 06:56 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 7th August 2010, 07:00 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
I feel your pain. They talk like experts in controlled demolition, yet are unable to grasp the simple fact that the easiest way to destroy a building is to take out the supporting elements and let gravity do the rest.

I mean, really...what controlled demolition professional would try to blow up all the concrete?
I think it was Mark Roberts in his debate with Fetzer that he pointed out Woods never did any sort of energy calculations to determine what would be required to "pulverize" the building with her spacebeam theory. I believe it was somewhere on the order of every known energy source on the planet in one pulse!

And Fetzer wouldn't touch it either and barely addressed it. He hand waved past it as quickly as he could so he could move on to something else.

Like holograms! He felt that was a safer subject!

He's so nuts!
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Old 13th August 2010, 09:10 AM   #286
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Easy: anyone attempting to convince a closed-minded, ignorant, and terrified, "de-bunker," using logic, science, fact, and witness statements that 9/11 was NOT the work of Bin Laden, or Al Queada, but of the rogue government (still in power).

It's so stupid. Debunking fools, like those who write here, should be left alone to wallow in their frightened fantasies.
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Old 13th August 2010, 09:29 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by ProfJoey223 View Post
Easy: anyone attempting to convince a closed-minded, ignorant, and terrified, "de-bunker," using logic, science, fact, and witness statements that 9/11 was NOT the work of Bin Laden, or Al Queada, but of the rogue government (still in power).

It's so stupid. Debunking fools, like those who write here, should be left alone to wallow in their frightened fantasies.
Oh really? Then explain to everyone why Ramzi Yousef (1993 WTC Bombing) was linked with Al Qaeda through his uncle, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. KSM is on trial for being the mastermind behind the terrorists attacks on 9/11 and is linked with Osama Bin Laden.

Last edited by 9/11 Chewy Defense; 13th August 2010 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 13th August 2010, 09:29 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by ProfJoey223 View Post
Easy: anyone attempting to convince a closed-minded, ignorant, and terrified, "de-bunker," using logic, science, fact, and witness statements that 9/11 was NOT the work of Bin Laden, or Al Queada, but of the rogue government (still in power).

It's so stupid. Debunking fools, like those who write here, should be left alone to wallow in their frightened fantasies.


In the spirit of full disclosure, consider "Prof"Joey's comment here:



Originally Posted by ProfJoey223 View Post
And this business of a non-symmetrical fall, okay, I'm open....show me a video where the collapse of building 7 does NOT display the roof like falling straight down. And I don't know if you're familiar with the streets of Manhattan down there but they are extremely narrow. Amazingly, the collapse of WTC7 did NO damage to any of its neighboring buildings.
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Old 13th August 2010, 09:34 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by ProfJoey223 View Post
Easy: anyone attempting to convince a closed-minded, ignorant, and terrified, "de-bunker," using logic, science, fact, and witness statements that 9/11 was NOT the work of Bin Laden, or Al Queada, but of the rogue government (still in power).
So, basically, you're saying that all truthers are stupid, including you?

Dave
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Old 13th August 2010, 09:36 AM   #290
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Jammy's WTC no planer assertions, and claims that nobody really saw planes hit the towers is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I have met MANY people from NY and NJ who saw the planes hit, and many are still traumatized.
Aircraft debris was strewn on the streets after the impacts, but Jammy and other no planers claim it was all 'planted'. My best friend's brother was in NY when it happened, and he gets the shakes when he hears a plane fly overhead. Is Jammy a nutcase, or just ignorant?
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Old 13th August 2010, 12:54 PM   #291
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A nutcase.
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Old 13th August 2010, 12:54 PM   #292
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C. All of the above
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Old 13th August 2010, 03:16 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by ProfJoey223 View Post
Easy: anyone attempting to convince a closed-minded, ignorant, and terrified, "de-bunker," using logic, science, fact, and witness statements that 9/11 was NOT the work of Bin Laden, or Al Queada, but of the rogue government (still in power).

It's so stupid. Debunking fools, like those who write here, should be left alone to wallow in their frightened fantasies.
Bolding mine. So, Bush and Obama are really on the same side? Is there ever a politician who is not part of the inner circle?
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Old 13th August 2010, 04:07 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
Bolding mine. So, Bush and Obama are really on the same side? Is there ever a politician who is not part of the inner circle?
One thing I always wondered about the Shadow Government- do they have a good health plan?
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Old 13th August 2010, 04:10 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by ProfJoey223 View Post
Easy: anyone attempting to convince a closed-minded, ignorant, and terrified, "de-bunker," using logic, science, fact, and witness statements that 9/11 was NOT the work of Bin Laden, or Al Queada, but of the rogue government (still in power).

It's so stupid. Debunking fools, like those who write here, should be left alone to wallow in their frightened fantasies.
Thats quite a bit of projection there...You sound like a very paranoid person- or are you engaging in a bit of role play to demonstrate the lunacy of the conspiracy sheeple or are you really a crackpot?
You are calling debunkers 'closed-minded, ignorant, and terrified'?
Such traits define conspracy crackpots like Truthers.

The only ones who are 'afraid' here are the tinfoil hat Truther nutters.

Tell me about your paranoid fantasy of a 'rogue government (still in power).'
Are you by chance a Lyndon larouche cult member?

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Old 13th August 2010, 05:39 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
Bolding mine. So, Bush and Obama are really on the same side? Is there ever a politician who is not part of the inner circle?

Ron Paul, apparently.
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Old 23rd August 2010, 09:40 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
I think it was Mark Roberts in his debate with Fetzer that he pointed out Woods never did any sort of energy calculations...

And Fetzer wouldn't touch it either and barely addressed it. He hand waved past it as quickly as he could so he could move on to something else.

He's so nuts!
Hey cantonear!! Great to see you here! You might also know me as jazzfan5000!!!
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Old 23rd August 2010, 09:55 AM   #298
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It seems the only 'evidence' Truthers can offer to support any of their foolish theories are absurd Youtube videos. Pretty much any Truther video is almost comical in it's absurdity..

The ones who think the planes were flown by remote control are bizzare- what proof do they have to support their claim, and why would hijacked planes be flown by remote control?
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Old 23rd August 2010, 10:03 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Titanic Explorer View Post
It seems the only 'evidence' Truthers can offer to support any of their foolish theories are absurd Youtube videos. Pretty much any Truther video is almost comical in it's absurdity..

The ones who think the planes were flown by remote control are bizzare- what proof do they have to support their claim, and why would hijacked planes be flown by remote control?
Agreed!

Perhaps there's a few Truthers out there that are diehard fans of toy R/C Airplanes. They don't want to grow up, cause they're a bunch of Toys-R-Us kids.
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Old 23rd August 2010, 11:13 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by ProfJoey223 View Post
Easy: anyone attempting to convince a closed-minded, ignorant, and terrified, "de-bunker," using logic, science, fact, and witness statements that 9/11 was NOT the work of Bin Laden, or Al Queada, but of the rogue government (still in power).

It's so stupid. Debunking fools, like those who write here, should be left alone to wallow in their frightened fantasies.
The quote above is a fine example of truther stupidity...
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Old 23rd August 2010, 01:16 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by dc1971 View Post
Hey cantonear!! Great to see you here! You might also know me as jazzfan5000!!!
Sorry Jazz. I'm just seeing this one now. Cheers!
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Old 23rd August 2010, 01:34 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by ProfJoey223 View Post
Easy: anyone attempting to convince a closed-minded, ignorant, and terrified, "de-bunker," using logic, science, fact, and witness statements that 9/11 was NOT the work of Bin Laden, or Al Queada, but of the rogue government (still in power).

It's so stupid. Debunking fools, like those who write here, should be left alone to wallow in their frightened fantasies.
The last eight years of watching the world move on without acknowledging your pseudo-movement has been very hard for you, hasn't it?

Knowing that this year, the second year in a row, there will be no formal truther presence at the 9/11 memorial service must be especially heartbreaking for you.
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Old 23rd August 2010, 06:31 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by 9/11 Chewy Defense View Post
Agreed!

Perhaps there's a few Truthers out there that are diehard fans of toy R/C Airplanes. They don't want to grow up, cause they're a bunch of Toys-R-Us kids.
Chewy,

Cap't "Tiffany" Bob Balsamo fits right in to your description. His latest claim? The Pentagon 757 should have exhibited "clockwise damage" in its pattern of destruction since the right wingtip hit the building first. His rationale?

Quote:
There should have been some type of clockwise rotation about the vertical axis due to impact angle, yet the "impact damage" does not show any signs of such.
Quote:
I've seen it plenty of times when crashing my RC aircraft.
The fact that one weights 8-10 pounds and is traveling at 20 feet per second and the other weights 90 tons and is traveling at 750 feet per second is lost on him. Totally.

Pilot Truthers....the gift that keeps on giving!

I'm not linking to the post. If anyone is curious to read it, its on the Pilot tree house page.
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Old 23rd May 2011, 09:11 PM   #304
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I had a new one! In an amazing display of cognitive dissonance, I had a truther claim that Danny Jowenko was correct in regards to WTC 7, but incorrect when it came to WTCs 1 & 2, because he was commenting outside of his expertise:

Quote:
Jowenko thinks WTC 7 is a CD.
He doesn't do top-down demolitions so he doesn't recognise the towers as being CD. He also didn't know he was originally looking at WTC 7, so his opinion was untainted from knowing the date.....LOL!
For those of you who post on youtube, that was noozilander. If you are not familiar with him, think Jammonius. No attempt at logical or linear thought whatsoever!
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Old 24th May 2011, 04:54 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
For those of you who post on youtube, that was noozilander. If you are not familiar with him, think Jammonius. No attempt at logical or linear thought whatsoever!
I think everyone is outside his expertise when talking about top-down demolition. Could there possibly be a messier way to bring down a building?
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Old 24th May 2011, 02:11 PM   #306
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Any claims they make about aviation, explosives, buildings, fire, engineering or come to think of it anything real..
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Old 24th May 2011, 02:12 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post

For those of you who post on youtube, that was noozilander. If you are not familiar with him, think Jammonius. No attempt at logical or linear thought whatsoever!
Hey we have our share of nutters too.
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Old 24th May 2011, 04:51 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by George152 View Post
Hey we have our share of nutters too.
Hey....I mentioned Jammonius!
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Old 24th May 2011, 06:07 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
Bolding mine. So, Bush and Obama are really on the same side? Is there ever a politician who is not part of the inner circle?
John McCain.

If he'd been part of the inner circle a real politician would have been his running mate and he might have had a chance. Instead he was a "maverick," unbranded by the GOP (or NWO) and left to suck up a loss against whatever team the Dems threw out there.
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Old 11th June 2011, 02:49 PM   #310
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Old 11th June 2011, 04:33 PM   #311
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An acquaintance of mine thinks the whole thing was set up by the Port Authority to regain control of the land the WTC stood upon...
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Old 11th June 2011, 05:06 PM   #312
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A friend of mine thinks that the guv'ment did it. His evidence? 911 is the emergency phone number in the States. Who can argue with solid proof like that?
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Old 11th June 2011, 05:42 PM   #313
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The whole controlled demolition aspect of most 9/11 conspiracy theories.

In 1998 the J.L. Hudson Department Store Building in Detroit was destroyed in the largest controlled demolition in history. The J.L. Hudson Building 29 story, 439 foot tall was a steel, concrete, and granite structure, first built in 1911 and last renovated in 1946. The building had stood empty since 1983 was in such poor shape that parts of it had to be renovated before it could be safely destroyed.

It took a 21 man team 3 months to plan the demolition. During that time they filled in the basement with soil, placed 4,118 explosive charges in 1,100 different locations for a total of 2,728 lbs of explosives, ran over 36,000 feet (or almost 7 miles!) of detonation cord, and installed 216 relays to make everything go off in the proper sequence.

Now I'm supposed to believe that any group of any size was able to pull off the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center Towers, 2 modern, steel latices, tube frame structure in what happened to be the busiest office space in the world with nobody noticing. That's not a stupid idea. Now that so stupid we need a new word to describe it. That's to stupid what stupid is to smart. It's like people can't even be wrong right anymore.

That's why I don't consider the Truther Movement to be a conspiracy theory. Point blank... it's not smart enough to be a conspiracy theory. It's really the 9/11 Paranoid Delusion. It really is a whole new level of just absolute intellectually bankrupt reality denial. It makes normal conspiracy theories look like well thought out ideas. The 9/11 Truther Movement wishes it was a conspiracy theory.

I mean the whole Kennedy assassination stories are bullspit, but at least they make sense internally.

Shoot Kennedy from the grassy knoll, set up Oswald as a patsy, hire Ruby to silence Oswald. Okay that's not what happened, it's not supported by the evidence, but at least it makes for a logically congruent set of events. You have to bring in outside evidence to prove it wrong. If you knew nothing at all about the events of the Kennedy assassination and you listen to both the official story and the conspiracy theories, you'd have to actually bring in outside facts to form an intelligent opinion.

But the Truther BS is a different thing all together. It doesn't make sense even if you believe it. It raises more questions it provides answers. The story itself doesn't make sense. You don't even really have to prove it wrong because it falls apart on its own. Even if you knew nothing about the events of 9/11 and had not seen one fact that contradicts the Truther Movements, facts like you know all of them the story itself would start setting off warning bells in the brain of any human with enough neurons bouncing around in their skull to form a synapse the moment they heard it.

In the original Terminator Dr. Silverman describes Kyle Reese's tale of a robot from the future that looks human and didn't bring back any futuristic weaponry because of a quirk in how time travel works as "the perfect delusion" because it requires no outside evidence. It's a neat little package.

The Truther Movement is equivalent to Kyle Reese telling Dr. Silverman that the Terminator is an 800 foot tall robotic scorpion that shoots lasers from its eyes and that it's outside the window right now and when Dr. Silverman looks out the window and tells Kyle that there is no giant robot scorpion Kyle just keeps going "Yes there is" over and over.

The Truth Movement is not a conspiracy theory. It's reality denial of the worst kind.
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Old 11th June 2011, 06:14 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
A friend of mine thinks that the guv'ment did it. His evidence? 911 is the emergency phone number in the States. Who can argue with solid proof like that?
Long time conspiracy theorist Dick Gregory said the same thing on the Alex Jones show last year (starting at the 3:00 mark in the video). Jones of course agrees. Gregory also said we don't use a number to name a month... while the graphic on the screen (which he couldn't see) gives the date of the show as 9-14-10.

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I AGREE
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Old 11th June 2011, 08:05 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Ron Paul, apparently.
So there goes the health plan.

Wait a second, this is a zombie thread? And Ru Paul still thinks I should pay directly for my own health insurance? And zombie insurance, too, I suppose.

Lousy libertarians and cross dressers.
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Old 12th June 2011, 12:05 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
The whole controlled demolition aspect of most 9/11 conspiracy theories.

In 1998 the J.L. Hudson Department Store Building in Detroit was destroyed in the largest controlled demolition in history. The J.L. Hudson Building 29 story, 439 foot tall was a steel, concrete, and granite structure, first built in 1911 and last renovated in 1946. The building had stood empty since 1983 was in such poor shape that parts of it had to be renovated before it could be safely destroyed.

It took a 21 man team 3 months to plan the demolition. During that time they filled in the basement with soil, placed 4,118 explosive charges in 1,100 different locations for a total of 2,728 lbs of explosives, ran over 36,000 feet (or almost 7 miles!) of detonation cord, and installed 216 relays to make everything go off in the proper sequence.

Now I'm supposed to believe that any group of any size was able to pull off the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center Towers, 2 modern, steel latices, tube frame structure in what happened to be the busiest office space in the world with nobody noticing. That's not a stupid idea. Now that so stupid we need a new word to describe it. That's to stupid what stupid is to smart. It's like people can't even be wrong right anymore.

That's why I don't consider the Truther Movement to be a conspiracy theory. Point blank... it's not smart enough to be a conspiracy theory. It's really the 9/11 Paranoid Delusion. It really is a whole new level of just absolute intellectually bankrupt reality denial. It makes normal conspiracy theories look like well thought out ideas. The 9/11 Truther Movement wishes it was a conspiracy theory.

I mean the whole Kennedy assassination stories are bullspit, but at least they make sense internally.

Shoot Kennedy from the grassy knoll, set up Oswald as a patsy, hire Ruby to silence Oswald. Okay that's not what happened, it's not supported by the evidence, but at least it makes for a logically congruent set of events. You have to bring in outside evidence to prove it wrong. If you knew nothing at all about the events of the Kennedy assassination and you listen to both the official story and the conspiracy theories, you'd have to actually bring in outside facts to form an intelligent opinion.

But the Truther BS is a different thing all together. It doesn't make sense even if you believe it. It raises more questions it provides answers. The story itself doesn't make sense. You don't even really have to prove it wrong because it falls apart on its own. Even if you knew nothing about the events of 9/11 and had not seen one fact that contradicts the Truther Movements, facts like you know all of them the story itself would start setting off warning bells in the brain of any human with enough neurons bouncing around in their skull to form a synapse the moment they heard it.

In the original Terminator Dr. Silverman describes Kyle Reese's tale of a robot from the future that looks human and didn't bring back any futuristic weaponry because of a quirk in how time travel works as "the perfect delusion" because it requires no outside evidence. It's a neat little package.

The Truther Movement is equivalent to Kyle Reese telling Dr. Silverman that the Terminator is an 800 foot tall robotic scorpion that shoots lasers from its eyes and that it's outside the window right now and when Dr. Silverman looks out the window and tells Kyle that there is no giant robot scorpion Kyle just keeps going "Yes there is" over and over.

The Truth Movement is not a conspiracy theory. It's reality denial of the worst kind.
Great post, JoeBentley. Nominated
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Old 12th June 2011, 01:18 AM   #317
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Many believe that the passengers on Flight 93 were removed from the plane and have moved on to new lives. This is evidenced by the fact that Lisa Beamer, widow of Todd, and many others on that flight, never took any money from the victim's compensation fund. This is true, there were quite a few widows/widowers who did not accept money from the fund nor did they sue the airlines. The reason, however, is not because the victims are alive, but rather because the fund only paid out AFTER life insurance had paid out. In some cases, the life insurance exceeded the amount of the compensation fund payout. Also, a large number of people who died in 911 overall are not listed in the SSDI. Also true, but I think this is because they were not involved with funeral homes, who take care of these things.

They also believe that Barbara Olsen is one and the same as Lady whoever that her widower married.

And Tim McVeigh is not dead, because really, the government blew up the Murrah building in OKC. However, since they treat the SSDI like a bible when using it to explain that all of the victims of 911 are fake (and I genuinely believe, during the first few days, there were some fake victims or misrepresentations in the rush to get names out) they disregard it for McVeigh.
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Old 12th June 2011, 03:13 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
...
In 1998 the J.L. Hudson Department Store Building in Detroit was destroyed in the largest controlled demolition in history. The J.L. Hudson Building 29 story, 439 foot tall was a steel, concrete, and granite structure, first built in 1911 and last renovated in 1946. The building had stood empty since 1983 was in such poor shape that parts of it had to be renovated before it could be safely destroyed.

It took a 21 man team 3 months to plan the demolition. During that time they filled in the basement with soil, placed 4,118 explosive charges in 1,100 different locations for a total of 2,728 lbs of explosives, ran over 36,000 feet (or almost 7 miles!) of detonation cord, and installed 216 relays to make everything go off in the proper sequence.

Now I'm supposed to believe that any group of any size was able to pull off the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center Towers, 2 modern, steel latices, tube frame structure in what happened to be the busiest office space in the world with nobody noticing. That's not a stupid idea. Now that so stupid we need a new word to describe it. That's to stupid what stupid is to smart. It's like people can't even be wrong right anymore.
...
I think the comparison to a real controlled demolition, and particularly the J.L. Hudson Building, is not so very smart. The twin towers did not fall in the controlled fashion that avoids damage to surrounding structures. No need to fill the basemens, no need to time the charges in any particular way, no need for that overkill that the Hudson required.

In another thread, I am trying to assemble data and arguments about what it takes to destroy a building with explosives:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=211306
At a bare minimum, you would have to take out about half the core columns on one floor to bring those tube-in-tube towers totally to the ground. That would take much less explosives (say, small 3-digit number of pounds), much fewer detonators and such, and much less work.

(But still, it would be hard to do this unnoticed, impossible in the floors where the plane crashed, the fire raged and the collapses initiated, and there is precisely zero evidence. So yes, the idea is monumentally stupid, just not quite as stupid as the comparison to the JL Hudson would make it appear)
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Old 13th June 2011, 08:50 PM   #319
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkhE_BMJuc8
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Old 13th June 2011, 09:13 PM   #320
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Wow, damn near that whole video is a Stundie!
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