ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags ae911truth , J. Leroy Hulsey , wtc 7

Reply
Old 26th July 2017, 01:19 PM   #2321
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,240
It's nice to see someone other than us pointing out the lack of transparency and results.

I'm sure dtg86 will be soon branded as a shill..............
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th August 2017, 07:23 PM   #2322
MileHighMadness
Muse
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Just Southeast of Hell
Posts: 629
Okay...it is August, where is the report?
__________________
“I don’t look forward to heaven, it sounds as boring as hell.” Lord Postsettle
MileHighMadness is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2017, 04:20 AM   #2323
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
Okay...it is August, where is the report?
Shh.
Will be there in time for the anniversary hoopla. But not too early, lest it gets scrutinized and found wanting before that date.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th August 2017, 08:12 PM   #2324
benthamitemetric
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 448
annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd it looks like the study is delayed until 2018:

Quote:
Update: Tune in at 8 p.m. Eastern Time on Wednesday, September 6, 2017, to watch the livestream of Dr. Leroy Hulsey’s presentation from the University of Alaska Fairbanks. There he will present the findings and conclusions of the study detailed in his team’s September 2017 progress report, which will be issued the same day.

A draft report of the study will be released in October or November 2017 and will be open for public comment for a six-week period, allowing for input from the public and the engineering community. A final report will then be published in early 2018.
http://www.wtc7evaluation.org/

How long is Hulsey planning on keeping these grad students hostage?

The public comment period is also going to be interesting. I think some folks around here can help the UAF team out by making sure top flight structural engineers who have actually published on these topics have a chance to provide their comments...
benthamitemetric is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2017, 08:09 AM   #2325
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
What??
"A draft report ... will be open for public comment for a six-week period, allowing for input from the public and the engineering community. A final report will then be published in early 2018."

They are doing it exactly like NIST did, don't they? Instead of making the entire 2-year process transparent so the public stays informed on progress throughout.

By releasing it to the "community" for review and announcing a publication date, they are in fact saying that they have abandoned the promise of submitting to a good peer-reviewed journal.

9/11 Truth - 16 years of breaking promises and achieving nothing.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2017, 08:13 AM   #2326
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 24,724
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
They are doing it exactly like NIST did, don't they?
You mean, deciding the conclusion in advance, then writing a report to support that conclusion?

Dave
__________________
Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2017, 08:31 AM   #2327
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
To wit - Mark F posted this a year ago. I snipped the lengthy quote down to the bits I just talked about, the broken promises:

Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I feel it might be constructive to revisit the beginning, the original press release regarding the objectives and intended methodology of the Hulsey Study:

Quote:
... Once the study is completed, Dr. Hulsey will submit his findings to major peer-reviewed engineering journals.

Transparency and Public Participation

Unlike NIST, which has refused to release all of its modeling data based on the untenable excuse that doing so “might jeopardize public safety,” UAF and AE911Truth will make this study completely open and transparent.

Soon, we will begin posting the process on the website WTC7Evaluation.org, where members of the architecture and engineering communities, as well as the general public, can follow and scrutinize the research as it is being conducted.
...
By making the study open and transparent throughout the entire process, we expect it to attract widespread attention from the engineering community and the broader public, while also enabling interested observers to provide input and feedback. To that end, we enthusiastically invite you to register to become a participant in the study. Dr. Hulsey and the review committee vetting his research greatly welcome your help.

...
I have not watched the entire presentation yet but I am getting the impression that what we ended up with is a whole lot less than what we were told we would be getting.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2017, 08:32 AM   #2328
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
You mean, deciding the conclusion in advance, then writing a report to support that conclusion?

Dave
Huh? Errr yes, this!
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2017, 08:32 AM   #2329
SpitfireIX
Illuminator
 
SpitfireIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
Posts: 3,738
And, naturally, they will make public all the comments and criticism they receive during the comment period.
__________________
Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims:
1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage
2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli
3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya
SpitfireIX is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2017, 08:34 AM   #2330
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Also, from Hulsey's own mouth:
Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I have transcribed an important bit from between the 1:00 and 2:00 marks wheh Dr. Hulsey is speaking;

“We are making this study open, and transparent. Whether you are a physicist, engineer, architect, fire expert, or specialist in another field or just an ordinary citizen we want your participation.”

“We are making all of our data available on-line. Every aspect of our process regarding the model will be shared and we will be giving regular updates from the lab as we continue our work.”

“Join us in getting to the bottom of why World Trade Center 7 collapsed on September 11th, 2001”.
(emphasis added)

All of that IIRC was simply copped from their original project introduction video of last year.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2017, 05:17 PM   #2331
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,240
Strange how none of the supporters are voicing complaints. Almost exactly like another study they paid for..............
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2017, 05:56 PM   #2332
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Strange how none of the supporters are voicing complaints. Almost exactly like another study they paid for..............
"A crow doesn't peck out another crow's eye"
(Germany saying)
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2017, 12:31 PM   #2333
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 15,280
If a tree collapses in a forest, and hardly anyone around cares anymore, does it even matter?
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 09:25 AM   #2334
MileHighMadness
Muse
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Just Southeast of Hell
Posts: 629
Always stretch things out…keep the donations flowing as long as possible.
__________________
“I don’t look forward to heaven, it sounds as boring as hell.” Lord Postsettle
MileHighMadness is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2017, 10:48 AM   #2335
JSanderO
Master Poster
 
JSanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 2,679
At some point unless Gage turns it over to someone else... he'll have to par down all the expenses and put the site on auto pilot and look for some real work to supplement the trickle of $$.
__________________
So many idiots and so little time.
JSanderO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2017, 06:26 PM   #2336
MrRandomGuy
Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 45
I saw twoofies comment about this "study" a month ago saying "oh it's coming out in August it will prove controlled demolition."

Except twoofies still can't explain away the inconsistencies and impossibilities of it.
MrRandomGuy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th September 2017, 10:25 PM   #2337
DaveThomasNMSR
Muse
 
DaveThomasNMSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 862
There was supposed to be a live event at UAF today (Sept. 6th, 2017) at 4PM.

But, hours after the event, there is no video:
Quote:
Currently not broadcasting
video will play once broadcast starts

Last edited by DaveThomasNMSR; 6th September 2017 at 10:36 PM.
DaveThomasNMSR is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2017, 03:08 AM   #2338
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Originally Posted by DaveThomasNMSR View Post
There was supposed to be a live event at UAF today (Sept. 6th, 2017) at 4PM.

But, hours after the event, there is no video:
O damned, I forgot to tune in!

Sent from mobile phone through Tapatalk
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2017, 05:28 AM   #2339
JSanderO
Master Poster
 
JSanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 2,679
Whether live or prerecorded it eventually was online. Essentially, as far as I could understand... Hulsey used NIST heat inputs, and did some modelling including the stiffeners when were shown on shop drawings at the flr 13 col 19 girder connection and concludes.... no surprise... that the girder could not be moved off the seat and ergo the column could not fail from this as a cause. This is essentially the GerryCan and Tony Sz et al arguments.

At the end of the presentation he did mention he would next be looking at the belt truss and the area of the sub station and vibration effects of the collapsing twins. One wonders what heat/fire inputs he will use to do his future modeling.

This essentially was another refutation of the NIST model. He did not discuss or link visuals to what was taking place inside the tower.

Underwhelming (predictable) report
__________________
So many idiots and so little time.
JSanderO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2017, 07:50 AM   #2340
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Here are two video uploads of the presentation - the first, I hear, has better quality, but I am not sure how long it will remain online:
https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/index..../embed/dynamic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMV8E_83NiI

And here is the 911Blogger community already deeming the study "superb" (gerrycan's literal exclamation):
http://911blogger.com/news/2017-09-0...lding-collapse
Very revealing how, for example, poster "Satyakaama" cheers: "Not only do I want to see the incrimination of the guilty. I want to see the vindication of people such as Gage, Jones, Ryan, etc. They stayed true." - but does not want to see the data first, and for the study to first pass actual, independent peer review and become an actual refereed journal paper, as promised.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2017, 01:42 PM   #2341
Richard the G
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
At some point unless Gage turns it over to someone else... he'll have to par down all the expenses and put the site on auto pilot and look for some real work to supplement the trickle of $$.
I thought his last 501c3 accounts had ae911truth revenue of 700k. I don't think Richard will be starting a new career any time soon
Richard the G is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2017, 03:48 PM   #2342
JSanderO
Master Poster
 
JSanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 2,679
Originally Posted by Richard the G View Post
I thought his last 501c3 accounts had ae911truth revenue of 700k. I don't think Richard will be starting a new career any time soon
Why do you assume the revenue will continue at this rate? If the excitement of trutherdom is fading, so will the donations.
__________________
So many idiots and so little time.
JSanderO is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2017, 03:51 PM   #2343
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Originally Posted by Richard the G View Post
I thought his last 501c3 accounts had ae911truth revenue of 700k. I don't think Richard will be starting a new career any time soon
They submit their tax form for year X no sooner than November X+1, i.e. almost a year later. It's now September X+2 of the last 501c3 account that you have seen - that for 2015.

There is, apparently, at least one large "mystery donor" - at least Gage claimed as recently as May that someone in the background would match any sustaining donations that came in during a certain frame of time.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2017, 04:55 PM   #2344
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,788
Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
Why do you assume the revenue will continue at this rate? If the excitement of trutherdom is fading, so will the donations.
Why is Coast to Coast still on the air. CTs will make money for all time.

. if I was the IRS, I would check the big donors and make sure it is not a tax scam, where you donate 100,000, and get it all back but 10,000, thus making 15,000 dollars the IRS did not take, or is it more. Are Gage's rich friends making money the old fashion way.

Can I sell you some Bigfoot detection devices
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein
"... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK
https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2017, 03:05 AM   #2345
Josarhus
Thinker
 
Josarhus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Posts: 212
The latest tax exemption form I have seen from AE911 was from 2012, anywhere I can see the newer ones?
__________________
Niels Harrit: "I do not actually understand why they fire insulates steel structures. It just slows the heating of the steel by one hour. There must be money in it."
Josarhus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2017, 06:01 AM   #2346
pgimeno
Illuminator
 
pgimeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,241
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
They submit their tax form for year X no sooner than November X+1, i.e. almost a year later. It's now September X+2 of the last 501c3 account that you have seen - that for 2015.
Don't these delays have any kind of penalty?
__________________
Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place.
pgimeno is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2017, 06:43 AM   #2347
benthamitemetric
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 448
Originally Posted by Josarhus View Post
The latest tax exemption form I have seen from AE911 was from 2012, anywhere I can see the newer ones?
https://projects.propublica.org/nonp...ions/261532493
benthamitemetric is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2017, 07:20 AM   #2348
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Don't these delays have any kind of penalty?
(Reminder to self: This side issue better belongs in another thread, so let this be last reply)

They can and do apply for, and so far have been granted, deadline extensions to about November 15.
I don't know exactly what happens when they fail that.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2017, 09:39 AM   #2349
Josarhus
Thinker
 
Josarhus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
Thanks
__________________
Niels Harrit: "I do not actually understand why they fire insulates steel structures. It just slows the heating of the steel by one hour. There must be money in it."
Josarhus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 09:51 AM   #2350
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Hulsey's September 2017 Project Report Presentation can be downloaded here as an 85-page PDF file:

http://ine.uaf.edu/media/92216/wtc7-...t_2017-9-7.pdf
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 02:49 PM   #2351
pgimeno
Illuminator
 
pgimeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,241
I'm surprised by the lack of originality; poor innocent me thought there was going to be something new. The arguments are the same we've been discussing for years; I only miss the beam stubs one. The logical fallacy of "NIST is wrong therefore fire didn't do it" is just as we anticipated. The argument against the Weidlinger study is just incredulity. Same old, same old.
__________________
Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place.

Last edited by pgimeno; 12th September 2017 at 03:14 PM.
pgimeno is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:26 PM   #2352
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,240
Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
I'm surprised by the lack of originality..........................
I seriously doubt it.
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 04:24 PM   #2353
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
I'm surprised by the lack of originality; poor innocent me thought there was going to be something new. The arguments are the same we've been discussing for years; I only miss the beam stubs one.
There is a very active debate of the Hulsey presentation over at Metabunk. Mick West documented how Hulsey uses several slides, and identical arguments, as he did a year ago and two years ago, as if they haven't found much new in the last year.

Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
The logical fallacy of "NIST is wrong therefore fire didn't do it" is just as we anticipated. The argument against the Weidlinger study is just incredulity. Same old, same old.
gerrycan has already admited explicitly that Hulsey's conclusion, that fire did not bring down WTC7, is INVALID.
Tony Szamboti and kawika, though very clearly and pointedly asked if they confirm, or disagree with, Hulsey's conclusion refused to defend it any way at all, which must be scored as:
Tony Szamboti has expressed that Hulsey's conclusion is INVALID.
kawika has expressed that Hulsey's conclusion is INVALID.

That's three (3) AE911Truth apologists who are directly involved with AE911truth calling out Hulsey's conclusion as INVALID, and zero (0) AE911truthers defending Hulsey.

A remarkable piece of debunking by these three truthers.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 08:38 PM   #2354
Tony Szamboti
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,964
Oystein seems to say whatever he wants and doesn't feel the need to prove it. Below was my answer to him on Metabunk when I saw him make this claim and I am repeating it here.

I most certainly did not agree that Leroy Hulsey's conclusion is invalid. In fact, I stated the opposite and explained how he would have come to that conclusion in post #323.

If the columns never got hot enough to fail then the only way fire could cause a problem is for dislodgement of horizontal members removing lateral support for a significant number of stories (at least five in most cases) to cause the column(s) to be slender enough to buckle and fail. Once you include the items they ignored and omitted the NIST analysis could not show it happened between columns 44 and 79, and every other situation in the building was even less likely to have it occur. It is clear that it is groping at straws trying to say the building collapsed due to fire once you understand these details.

The temperatures Hulsey used on the structural members involved were also worst case for the NIST simulation, so it is nonsense trying to claim any other combination of temperatures may cause it.

Last edited by Tony Szamboti; 12th September 2017 at 09:10 PM.
Tony Szamboti is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 01:12 AM   #2355
skyeagle409
Master Poster
 
skyeagle409's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,225
Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Oystein seems to say whatever he wants and doesn't feel the need to prove it. Below was my answer to him on Metabunk when I saw him make this claim and I am repeating it here.

I most certainly did not agree that Leroy Hulsey's conclusion is invalid. In fact, I stated the opposite and explained how he would have come to that conclusion in post #323.

If the columns never got hot enough to fail then the only way fire could cause a problem is for dislodgement of horizontal members removing lateral support for a significant number of stories (at least five in most cases) to cause the column(s) to be slender enough to buckle and fail. Once you include the items they ignored and omitted the NIST analysis could not show it happened between columns 44 and 79, and every other situation in the building was even less likely to have it occur. It is clear that it is groping at straws trying to say the building collapsed due to fire once you understand these details.

The temperatures Hulsey used on the structural members involved were also worst case for the NIST simulation, so it is nonsense trying to claim any other combination of temperatures may cause it.
16 years and counting and still no 9/11 cd evidence. Why am I not surprised?
skyeagle409 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 04:59 AM   #2356
pgimeno
Illuminator
 
pgimeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,241
Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Once you include the items they ignored and omitted the NIST analysis could not show it happened between columns 44 and 79, and every other situation in the building was even less likely to have it occur.
Dismissed.
__________________
Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place.
pgimeno is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 12:17 PM   #2357
rwguinn
Penultimate Amazing
 
rwguinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 10,818
Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
16 years and counting and still no 9/11 cd evidence. Why am I not surprised?
Since Tony cannot (or will not) even attempt to back up his position by showing the boundary conditions, applied loads, and temperature assumptions at the beams/joists/columns he has issues with, I certainly am nor surprised at virtually anything he says...
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
"
I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
rwguinn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 12:20 PM   #2358
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,788
Got evidence yet? No -

Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Oystein seems to say whatever he wants and doesn't feel the need to prove it. Below was my answer to him on Metabunk when I saw him make this claim and I am repeating it here.

I most certainly did not agree that Leroy Hulsey's conclusion is invalid. In fact, I stated the opposite and explained how he would have come to that conclusion in post #323.

If the columns never got hot enough to fail then the only way fire could cause a problem is for dislodgement of horizontal members removing lateral support for a significant number of stories (at least five in most cases) to cause the column(s) to be slender enough to buckle and fail. Once you include the items they ignored and omitted the NIST analysis could not show it happened between columns 44 and 79, and every other situation in the building was even less likely to have it occur. It is clear that it is groping at straws trying to say the building collapsed due to fire once you understand these details.

The temperatures Hulsey used on the structural members involved were also worst case for the NIST simulation, so it is nonsense trying to claim any other combination of temperatures may cause it.
Fire caused the collapse, you don't have evidence for your silent explosives, or your magical thermite. Hulsey is a failed conspiracy theorist, or a grant hog who fooled you, and Richard Gage to gain money to buy computers, disk drives and fund a fantasy study based on making you and Gage happy campers in the fantasy world of CD.

CD is a sick fantasy mocking the murder of thousands by 19 nuts who were fooled by UBL, like you and Hulsey are fooled by 9/11 truth. Hulsey claims are BS, not much you can do about it. Got Evidence? No

16 years and the failed 9/11 truth movement has speculation based on dumbed down BS. 9/11 truth conspiracy engineers could have earned a PhD in structural engineering, but they doubled down on BS and got a PhD in woo.

Hulsey - "fire did not make WTC7 collapse" Is the study done? This is the best 9/11 truth can do, failed claims, speculation, and fantasy CD.

Hulsey claims it was not fire before he finished his study, claimed it was not fire based on his "calculation", on a study not done. What a joke, what an embarrassment for the school.
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein
"... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK
https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 02:26 PM   #2359
MileHighMadness
Muse
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Just Southeast of Hell
Posts: 629
I watched the whole presentation live. What a waste of time. Hulsey didn’t offer anything new, just a different twist on the same old truther lies. It shameful that this group continues to make money off the dead souls of all the people who died on 9/11.
__________________
“I don’t look forward to heaven, it sounds as boring as hell.” Lord Postsettle
MileHighMadness is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 03:30 PM   #2360
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 14,815
Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
I watched the whole presentation live. What a waste of time. Hulsey didn’t offer anything new, just a different twist on the same old truther lies. It shameful that this group continues to make money off the dead souls of all the people who died on 9/11.
Many of his presentation slides - including the conclusions! - are identical to what he presented a year ago, and a good number even identical to what he presented two years ago!

The project was originally announced as 2 years, $200K, 3 men (Hulsey and 2 assistants). Very quietly, one of the three men has left the team, and cost and time went up to 3 years, $300K - without explanation as far as I am aware.

Some of the work, including some of the graphics and calculations, weren't done by Hulsey. For example, slides 44-48 are originally Tony Szamboti's work, he first showed me it in January 2016.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:34 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.