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Old 17th August 2018, 12:12 PM   #241
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Here's my problem with this list, its a mix of unverified, unverifiable, undeniably true, mischaracterization.......
Yep. A completely and utterly worthless list.

If one wants to make a case that the Trump administration is ineffective or "bad" or "white supremacist" or whatever, one shouldn't have to lie and mischaracterize to do so.
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Old 17th August 2018, 12:15 PM   #242
ahhell
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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...r-insults.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.478786448764

@mumbles, it occurs to me that you don't really want Trump out of office or would just rather be right than get him out of office.

American Blacks started voting Democrat during the New Deal while the Dems were still clearly the party of racism and Jim Crow. It wasn't for another 30 years that that began to change. I were all democrats irredeemable monsters prior to the Civil Rights act and the Southern strategy?
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Old 17th August 2018, 01:01 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
And the actual points I made?

Quote:
@mumbles, it occurs to me that you don't really want Trump out of office or would just rather be right than get him out of office.
Yes, I'm sure "people who voted for Cheeto Benito after reading posts by Mumbles on ISF" will be a major voting bloc in 2020.

I'm pretty arrogant when it comes to anything I'm good at, but even I don't believe that one for an instant.

Quote:
American Blacks started voting Democrat during the New Deal while the Dems were still clearly the party of racism and Jim Crow. It wasn't for another 30 years that that began to change. I were all democrats irredeemable monsters prior to the Civil Rights act and the Southern strategy?
"The" party of racism.

Heh.

The embrace of white supremacism in the GOP began in earnest with the "lily white" movement in 1888, which you can read about here.

In any case, it's not my job to redeem racist white people, and I have no means to do so, particularly since they tend not to take kindly to afro-latinos like myself. Whether or not this or that MAGAt is "irredeemable" is thus not my concern. It's clearly not worth the stress and potential harm for me to do so, the end. Maybe they'll get out of it on their own, maybe their kids or their closer friends can do it.
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Old 17th August 2018, 02:23 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Since taking office, this administration has:

Stepped up harassment of all immigrants and refugees from nonwhite countries, up to and including separating small children from parents,
Attempted to ban muslims from entering the US, at times regardless of immigration status,
Attempted to sabotage any look into police racism, corruption, or violence (most notably attempting to blow up the consent decree for the laughably corrupt Baltimore PD, anyone that wants a decent understanding of that can simply look into the Gun Trace Task Force),
Asked the FBI to stop looking into white nationalist terrorist groups,
rolled back enforcement of discrimination laws in home and auto loans, desegregation, and education,
Shown deliberate hostility to hurricane recovery efforts in Puerto Rico,
Attacked Affirmative Action programs, but notably *not* legacy admissions programs,
Walked back on all funding promises to HBCUs,
repeatedly attacked black celebrities and athletes to whip up angry crowds (often despite them doing far more for communities as private citizens than this administration has, including Colin Kaepernick and Lebron James),
Praised Nazi fetishists and white supremacist terrorists,
Added prominent white nationalist Steve Bannon to the National Security Council, as well as sought council from prominent bigots Stephen Miller, Sebastian Gorka, and Jeff Sessions,
Frequently endorsed Confederate apologists (and child molestors) for federal office,
Endorsed anti-LGBT discrimination, including endorsing such on spurious religious grounds and ending federal policies regarding firms that refuse to hire LGBT people,
Attempted to kick Transgendered people out of the military entirely.
That is a good list, and a fairly accurate one, although only partial. For example, you could have added

- crapped all over America's allies.
- given aid and comfort to the leader of a sworn enemy.
- embarrassed the United States in front of the entire world.
- turned the Office of the President of the United States into a global laughing stock
- told lies, upon lies, upon lies, upon lies....
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Old 17th August 2018, 02:29 PM   #245
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And has shown total contempt for the rule of law,and the constitutional limits on the power of the Presidency.
This is going to end in disaster,folks. And aside from what will happen to Trump, I think the GOP might go the way of the Whigs when this is done.
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Old 17th August 2018, 02:53 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The embrace of white supremacism in the GOP began in earnest with the "lily white" movement in 1888, which you can read about here.
Yes, I think it's time we accepted that the Republicans have always been the party of racism, and that the Democrats have always been the good guys on the racism front.
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Old 17th August 2018, 03:45 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
That is a good list, and a fairly accurate one, although only partial. For example, you could have added

- crapped all over America's allies.
- given aid and comfort to the leader of a sworn enemy.
- embarrassed the United States in front of the entire world.
- turned the Office of the President of the United States into a global laughing stock
- told lies, upon lies, upon lies, upon lies....
I was speaking of his overt bigotry, mostly his racism towards black people, and really black Americans.

If you want to discuss how he's pathetic as a party leader, a government official, and a head of state...well, there's plenty of other things there as well.
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Old 17th August 2018, 05:34 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yes, I think it's time we accepted that the Republicans have always been the party of racism, and that the Democrats have always been the good guys on the racism front.
I trust you have some evidence for this claim that you just made above, so feel free to provide it.
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Old 17th August 2018, 06:22 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Originally Posted by Mumbles
The embrace of white supremacism in the GOP began in earnest with the "lily white" movement in 1888, which you can read about here.
Yes, I think it's time we accepted that the Republicans have always been the party of racism, and that the Democrats have always been the good guys on the racism front.
Yes, I think it's time we accepted that the Republicans have always been the party of racism, and that the Democrats have always been the good guys on the racism front.
Comprehension fail.
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Old 17th August 2018, 06:36 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I trust you have some evidence for this claim that you just made above, so feel free to provide it.
Truth is, most of the Racist in the Democratic Party moved to the Republican Party because the GOP openly courted their votes. It was called The Southern Strategy.
But don't expect a GOPer to admit that.
When it comes to Racism, none of the Major Parties hands are clean. But it is a hell of a lot worse in the GOP right now, and has been for quite a few years.
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Old 17th August 2018, 06:45 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yes, I think it's time we accepted that the Republicans have always been the party of racism, and that the Democrats have always been the good guys on the racism front.
"Always"? No. Just for the past fifty years. For the fifty years prior to that BOTH parties were the parties of racism.

ETA: Ninja'd by RogerRamjets while I was framing my post in expressions that wouldn't get me yellow carded.
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Old 17th August 2018, 07:09 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Truth is, most of the Racist in the Democratic Party moved to the Republican Party because the GOP openly courted their votes. It was called The Southern Strategy.
But don't expect a GOPer to admit that.
When it comes to Racism, none of the Major Parties hands are clean. But it is a hell of a lot worse in the GOP right now, and has been for quite a few years.
Yeah, lots of racist Democrats switched parties in the 50s and 60s. Senators Strom Thurmond and Jessie Helms are two notable Democrats that started out as Democrats. Strom Thurmond in the 50s as a Democrat launched the longest fillibuster in Senate history opposing Civil Rights.
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Old 17th August 2018, 08:53 PM   #253
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Some folks seem to forget that the parties didn’t always used to be as polarized as they are now. I am old enough to remember seeing the last of the liberal Republicans go extinct.

Back in older times, you could find more opposition in your own party than outside it. Remember that Jimmy Carter had more trouble dealing with Tip O’Neal than all the GOP combine...at least until 1980.
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Old 17th August 2018, 09:34 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yeah, lots of racist Democrats switched parties in the 50s and 60s. Senators Strom Thurmond and Jessie Helms are two notable Democrats that started out as Democrats. Strom Thurmond in the 50s as a Democrat launched the longest fillibuster in Senate history opposing Civil Rights.

In the 1940s, Robert Byrd recruited 150 of his friends and associates to create a new chapter of the Ku Klux Klan in West Virginia.

"The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia and in every state in the nation." -- Robert Byrd (1946)

Byrd would later go on to become the Democratic Senate Majority Leader (1987-1989).
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Old 17th August 2018, 10:00 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yeah, lots of racist Democrats switched parties in the 50s and 60s. Senators Strom Thurmond and Jessie Helms are two notable Democrats Republicans that started out as Democrats. Strom Thurmond in the 50s as a Democrat launched the longest fillibuster in Senate history opposing Civil Rights.
Fixed that for myself.
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Old 17th August 2018, 10:02 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
In the 1940s, Robert Byrd recruited 150 of his friends and associates to create a new chapter of the Ku Klux Klan in West Virginia.

"The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia and in every state in the nation." -- Robert Byrd (1946)

Byrd would later go on to become the Democratic Senate Majority Leader (1987-1989).
But Byrd did come around on race issues.
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Old 18th August 2018, 12:43 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
In the 1940s, Robert Byrd recruited 150 of his friends and associates to create a new chapter of the Ku Klux Klan in West Virginia.

"The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia and in every state in the nation." -- Robert Byrd (1946)

Byrd would later go on to become the Democratic Senate Majority Leader (1987-1989).
ANd then he retired and died, and now white nationalists dress up like Dolt 45 when they march around and screech about the blacks and the jews.

Ain't that some progress for ya?

Anyway, if you want to convince people that Dolt 45 supporters aren't bigots, you'll have to talk to them about their habit of saying and doing bigoted things. And that's gotta go beyond "don't plow cars into crowds", and into "Don't call black people thugs when they're just playing in the local park", "Don't drunkenly rant about how Puerto Ricans aren't 'ream Americans'", and so on.

Also, don't vote for people who repeatedly promise to use the government to target people based on their skin color, but that'll have to wait until next time.

Some dems and hangers-on have some basic things to learn as well, but this is about the current GOP, now isn't it?
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Old 18th August 2018, 01:52 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
<snip>

Back in older times, you could find more opposition in your own party than outside it. Remember that Jimmy Carter had more trouble dealing with Tip O’Neal than all the GOP combine...at least until 1980.

In the immortal words of ...

Originally Posted by Will Rogers

I'm not a member of any organized party.

I'm a Democrat.
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Old 18th August 2018, 06:44 AM   #259
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...did I mention avoiding things like, say, closing seven of the nine polling places for an entire majority-black county? Because that looks suspiciously like you're deliberately trying to hinder the political power of black people in order to consolidate your own power and feed wealth into the hands of a small set of elite white people - which is the perfect description of how anti-black white supremacy has operated in the US for the past two or 242 years...
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Old 18th August 2018, 09:07 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Aside from the Soviet Union you have Mao's China, Pol Pot in Cambodia, a repressive and brutal government in Vietnam (yes, the South Vietnames government was corrupt and brutal,but the North VIetnames Government was no improvement and in many ways worse) Castro's Cuba,etc.
So forgive If I think that Marxism sucks and had been a failure when tried, and not giving a damn what it is supposed to be in theory.
The theory has been tried and just does not work. Please show me otherwise.
Just want to make this clear; I've got nothing against you personally and I'd be happy to earnestly answer your question but I don't want to continue taking this too far afield.
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Old 19th August 2018, 08:27 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
You really don't think that any of the people who voted for Trump, are perfectly fine with all races, and don't care what kind of sex people are having? You also don't think that any of the people who voted for Trump are not OK with sexual harassment?
I don't. After all, they voted for a racist, homophobic, sexual harasser. They must be okay with it, if not supportive.
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Old 20th August 2018, 07:15 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I don't really care what Marxism claims to be, I just look at the way it operates when in power.
And, yes, I consider Marxism and Fascism to be equally destructive of freedom and individual rights when in power. I think history proves my point.
Only difference is that with Fascism,you don't have quite as many people claiming it's a good idea that was badly executed but next time we will get it right.
That is why libertarianism and marxism are more truly equal opposites.
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